Flash advice

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Bob Monkhouse

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Bob
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My son is buying a new slr,the Canon R7,I'm not particularly conversant with cameras,I use a Canon 600d which I like but its 15 years old. It has a built in flash whereas the new mirrorless R7 has a hot shoe. Why have cameras seemingly gone backwards by removing the automatic flash? I'm sure it isn't a backward step but for someone like me (and my son ) why would I/we buy a camera without a flash? - He is going to buy it anyway but it would be nice to know what the experts opinion is.Also,what flash should we be looking at? Thanks,Bob.
 
I think there are a couple of reasons the inbuilt flash has disappeared.
  1. Digital cameras have better high ISO performance.
  2. The small pop up flashes are not seen as that useful.
I have to say that in the last 15 years I haven't cared a bit about in-built flash.

But

Separate flash units are also a lot more cheap and versatile and varied than used to be - and there are attractons to not sticking with tthe manufacturers' own flash units.

I would suggest you take a look at Godox. There are small, medium, large on camera flash models with a range of studio stuff. that uses the same wireless trigger system. There are small units like the iT30 and iT32. And middling ones like the TT350 and V350 and V480. And larger ones like the TT685 and V1.
 
Everything @Dryce wrote but a bit more context.
Higher end cameras never had a built in flash.
When you bought your 600d, the flash was built in, but if you’d opted for the 7dII, 6d, 5d or 1dx you wouldn’t have got a built in flash.

And trying not to sound like a snob, it’s because more serious photographers wouldn’t find the built in flash that useful. A camera mounted straight ahead small light source doesn’t create interesting light.

But if you’re wanting something small, with not much power, the Godox it32 is about the most interesting flash concept about. Personally I’m hoping for a medium sized or larger flash built on the same principles.
 
Phil V said:
And trying not to sound like a snob, it’s because more serious photographers wouldn’t find the built in flash that useful. A camera mounted straight ahead small light source doesn’t create interesting light.
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I thought pop up flashes were left off 'pro' cameras to improve weather sealing.
 
Dryce said:
I think there are a couple of reasons the inbuilt flash has disappeared.
  1. Digital cameras have better high ISO performance.
  2. The small pop up flashes are not seen as that useful.
I have to say that in the last 15 years I haven't cared a bit about in-built flash.

But

Separate flash units are also a lot more cheap and versatile and varied than used to be - and there are attractons to not sticking with tthe manufacturers' own flash units.

I would suggest you take a look at Godox. There are small, medium, large on camera flash models with a range of studio stuff. that uses the same wireless trigger system. There are small units like the iT30 and iT32. And middling ones like the TT350 and V350 and V480. And larger ones like the TT685 and V1.
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Thanks,I have just received a message from my son saying he's bought the camera for my 70th birthday, I'm in the process of trying to get him to cancel the purchase but knowing him he won't, a card would have done.
 
Phil V said:
But if you’re wanting something small, with not much power, the Godox it32 is about the most interesting flash concept about.
Click to expand...
Since getting a Godox iT32 to go with my flashless cameras I find myself using flash a lot more than I ever did. It's so easy to pop it on and off the camera without fiddling with the hot shoe. I've even used it off-camera a few times too.
 
Phil V said:
Everything @Dryce wrote but a bit more context.
Higher end cameras never had a built in flash.
When you bought your 600d, the flash was built in, but if you’d opted for the 7dII, 6d, 5d or 1dx you wouldn’t have got a built in flash.

And trying not to sound like a snob, it’s because more serious photographers wouldn’t find the built in flash that useful. A camera mounted straight ahead small light source doesn’t create interesting light.

But if you’re wanting something small, with not much power, the Godox it32 is about the most interesting flash concept about. Personally I’m hoping for a medium sized or larger flash built on the same principles.
Click to expand...
That's sort of what I was thinking, I'm not a photographer, just someone who likes taking pictures so my knowledge of quality cameras is almost none existent. My son has just ordered the R7 for my birthday so I need to be looking at both the adapter for my EF-S lenses and also a decent flash unit. I'm intending buying a 150-600 lens,the 55-250 I'm using isnt quite long enough for the photos I take of my Grandchildren playing rugby/football and maybe it's time I actually improved my knowledge of cameras. Like a lot of people, I've got lazy with having a half decent camera on my phone in my pocket constantly. I started with the most basic of slr's over 45 years ago with a Zenith 11,clunky it most certainly was but it took better photos than the 110 cameras, I upgraded to an Olympus OM2N and that was a camera I really loved and took thousands of photos with it but then started to waste my money on new digital cameras until finally buying the 60pd I still use.
 
Phil V said:
Everything @Dryce wrote but a bit more context.
Higher end cameras never had a built in flash.
When you bought your 600d, the flash was built in, but if you’d opted for the 7dII, 6d, 5d or 1dx you wouldn’t have got a built in flash.

And trying not to sound like a snob, it’s because more serious photographers wouldn’t find the built in flash that useful. A camera mounted straight ahead small light source doesn’t create interesting light.

But if you’re wanting something small, with not much power, the Godox it32 is about the most interesting flash concept about. Personally I’m hoping for a medium sized or larger flash built on the same principles.
Click to expand...
Thanks,I have just ordered the TT350, £63 less a free gift card of £28 . Now to find the £750 for the Sigma 150-600 lens I'm looking at.
 
Bob Monkhouse said:
I've just ordered the TT350,with a gift card it's only cost me £34.
Click to expand...

I've got one of these from few years ago. Mine is the Olympus compatible version but these days I use Fuji. It will also act as a flash trigger or slave in the Godox system. So even if you get more flash kit from the same family it can still be of use as an extra wee fill flash to stick somewhere.
 
Bob Monkhouse said:
I've just ordered the TT350,with a gift card it's only cost me £34.
Click to expand...
I’ve just got rid of my tt350*, not because of the low power, it’s more powerful than the it32, but the recycling on 2 AA batteries was frustrating.


However, back to the long lens; for the R7 I’d strongly advise looking at the rf100-400, it’s a much more usable lens than the sigma. And more or less where this thread started?

*i ought to clarify, it’s been boxed and ready for sale for about 7 years, I bought it to use with my M5 which I haven’t had for years.
 
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Ed Sutton said:
I thought pop up flashes were left off 'pro' cameras to improve weather sealing.
Click to expand...
Yes
And because they’re an obvious point of weakness (as are tilting screens which didn’t appear for a long time)
But the manufacturers didn’t look for a compromise because they’d almost certainly concluded a built in flash wouldn’t be missed by the buyers, for the first reason I mentioned
 
Phil V said:
Yes
And because they’re an obvious point of weakness (as are tilting screens which didn’t appear for a long time)
But the manufacturers didn’t look for a compromise because they’d almost certainly concluded a built in flash wouldn’t be missed by the buyers, for the first reason I mentioned
Click to expand...
And of course manufacturers (probably rightly , in this case) are more than happy to remove a cost and simplify things if doing so isn't going to impact sales!
 
Bob Monkhouse said:
Thanks,I have just ordered the TT350, £63 less a free gift card of £28 . Now to find the £750 for the Sigma 150-600 lens I'm looking at.
Click to expand...
I’m gonna be a bit more blunt.
When the tt350 arrives, send it back and buy the it32. Genuinely the recycle times on the tt350 are bad enough they cripple camera performance.

The it32 isn’t just a better flash, it’s an entire new generation of product.

Also, look at the rf100-400 grey market, it’s a much more usable solution than the Sigma
 
Phil V said:
I’ve just got rid of my tt350*, not because of the low power, it’s more powerful than the it32, but the recycling on 2 AA batteries was frustrating.


However, back to the long lens; for the R7 I’d strongly advise looking at the rf100-400, it’s a much more usable lens than the sigma. And more or less where this thread started?

*i ought to clarify, it’s been boxed and ready for sale for about 7 years, I bought it to use with my M5 which I haven’t had for years.
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I must admit my first thought when I unpacked it was it had 2 AA batteries and I'll have to buy several decent rechargeable batteries but it's no big deal. I'm looking at a 150-600 Sigma on PCB? camera equipment, there's 2 in particular, one rated excellent at £769 and one rated as new at £859, now you've thrown a spanner in the works as I was about to order one or the other. I bought a cheapo 400-800 lens off temu( don't laugh) for £34 ,basically to see what a lens was like for the price of a lucky bag and also to test the focal length at 400 and 600, I'm on the Broads with the 600d for the week so I'm going to stick it on and test the lengths,I can't see the lens being much good but I do wonder how anyone can make a lens for pennies is beyond me. I'll do some testing.
 
Phil V said:
I’m gonna be a bit more blunt.
When the tt350 arrives, send it back and buy the it32. Genuinely the recycle times on the tt350 are bad enough they cripple camera performance.

The it32 isn’t just a better flash, it’s an entire new generation of product.

Also, look at the rf100-400 grey market, it’s a much more usable solution than the Sigma
Click to expand...
I'll send the flash back when I get home on Saturday, I need to think again about what lens I'm going to buy,I need one to fit the 600d as buying a set of replacement lenses for the R7 is an expense I don't really have the brass for,plus I'll continue to use 600d as well as the new camera so buying a lens that will only fit the one doesn't make sense.
 
Bob Monkhouse said:
I'll send the flash back when I get home on Saturday, I need to think again about what lens I'm going to buy,I need one to fit the 600d as buying a set of replacement lenses for the R7 is an expense I don't really have the brass for,plus I'll continue to use 600d as well as the new camera so buying a lens that will only fit the one doesn't make sense.
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I'm no expert, but it's my understanding that not all third part flash will work with the R7.
I'm pretty sure the Godox V1 will. Some other models may need the latest firmware, and some won't give all functionality.
I'd suggest checking before you buy.
The built-in flash were handy for parties, but not not very powerful, and lack of being able to bounce or soften the light, and close to lens means horrible lighting, shadow and enough red eye to make Dracula happy.
 
The pop up flash is one of the first things to break on any camera and it's the weak point in the pentaprism housing too.

If you are intending on keeping the 600d then my lens suggestion would be a 2nd hand EF100-400 Mk2. OH sold hers when she got her R6 to buy the RF100-500, couldn't get on with it. Before going mirrorless she got Nikon 200-500 envy and bough a Sigma 150-600; felt great in the shop and then struggled on location, so it and the RF100-500 are long gone. She has since bought another EF100-400 Mk2...
 
Bob Monkhouse said:
I'll send the flash back when I get home on Saturday, I need to think again about what lens I'm going to buy,I need one to fit the 600d as buying a set of replacement lenses for the R7 is an expense I don't really have the brass for,plus I'll continue to use 600d as well as the new camera so buying a lens that will only fit the one doesn't make sense.
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I’m more thinking you could sell the 600d and older stuff to help offset a better move to mirrorless.
Unless you’re carrying tonnes of old stuff should be quite straightforward.
I’d definitely take the new camera as an opportunity for a stocktake.
I do this every few years, trying to see how my kit fits in with my usage. I’ve just had a massive clear out, the only thing I feel I need now but not in the future is the 2nd R6, and at some unknown point I’ll likely swap 2 R6’s for one better body.
 
Phil V said:
I’m more thinking you could sell the 600d and older stuff to help offset a better move to mirrorless.
Unless you’re carrying tonnes of old stuff should be quite straightforward.
I’d definitely take the new camera as an opportunity for a stocktake.
I do this every few years, trying to see how my kit fits in with my usage. I’ve just had a massive clear out, the only thing I feel I need now but not in the future is the 2nd R6, and at some unknown point I’ll likely swap 2 R6’s for one better body.
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I'll think about that, I'm not a good photographer at all,I just take lots of photos and if it wasn't for my son unexpectedly buying me the R7 I would have stuck with the 600d for a long time,I might pass it on to my youngest son, he's already got part ownership anyway.
 
welshwizard645 said:
The pop up flash is one of the first things to break on any camera and it's the weak point in the pentaprism housing too.

If you are intending on keeping the 600d then my lens suggestion would be a 2nd hand EF100-400 Mk2. OH sold hers when she got her R6 to buy the RF100-500, couldn't get on with it. Before going mirrorless she got Nikon 200-500 envy and bough a Sigma 150-600; felt great in the shop and then struggled on location, so it and the RF100-500 are long gone. She has since bought another EF100-400 Mk2...
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I'm intending buying this at the end of the week,I've been convinced not to buy the 150-600 Sigma,the fact that this is a genuine Canon lens makes it more attractive to me and I think the extra 150mm on the 55-250 I'm using should be enough for what I want it for,the adapter I've bought means I don't need to buy another set of lenses for the R7 which is on its way.
 
Make sure it is the Mk2. The Mk1 wasn't bad but it is the 'trombone' style (push-pull to zoom), I think £739 is too much for a Mk1 but a good price for the Mk2. Get the Mk2.
 
welshwizard645 said:
Make sure it is the Mk2. The Mk1 wasn't bad but it is the 'trombone' style (push-pull to zoom), I think £739 is too much for a Mk1 but a good price for the Mk2. Get the Mk2.
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It looks like this is a MKI,I have just had a look for a MKII and the one I've seen is a couple of hundred more and not in as good a condition, I think I'll have to go with this and just get used to it, I can't afford any more than £800ish and that's taken me 3 weeks to break to the wife,if I try for any more I'll end up with my throat cut.
 
One R7-specific setup point for whichever flash you choose: check the shutter mode before testing it. Canon specifies a mode other than Electronic for flash photography; Mechanical is a straightforward starting point. I would make the first test a single shot at 1/125 s with the flash fully charged, rather than a fast burst. That keeps shutter-mode and recycling issues separate from compatibility. If it does not fire, also check External Speedlite control > Flash firing is set to Enable. The relevant R7 manual page is https://cam.start.canon/en/C005/manual/html/UG-04_Shooting-1_0140.html . It will not guarantee a particular third-party flash works, but it avoids judging one while the camera is set to a mode that prevents flash.
 
forumdcca6429 said:
One R7-specific setup point for whichever flash you choose: check the shutter mode before testing it. Canon specifies a mode other than Electronic for flash photography; Mechanical is a straightforward starting point. I would make the first test a single shot at 1/125 s with the flash fully charged, rather than a fast burst. That keeps shutter-mode and recycling issues separate from compatibility. If it does not fire, also check External Speedlite control > Flash firing is set to Enable. The relevant R7 manual page is https://cam.start.canon/en/C005/manual/html/UG-04_Shooting-1_0140.html . It will not guarantee a particular third-party flash works, but it avoids judging one while the camera is set to a mode that prevents flash.
Click to expand...
Thank you,I'm going to have to spend quite some time familiarising myself with both the new camera and the flash, my daughter suggested last week that maybe it's time I did a photography course, I'll have to look into it at some time in the future. I'm still in a tiz about the lens I want to buy,I have settled on the 100-400 but the one I have seen is a MKI,as new condition at £758 I think, I have been advised to get a MKII but so far the only ones I can find are out of my price range,the only disadvantage I can see with the MKI is that it's push/pull for the zoom, I'll wait till we're back from the Broads on Saturday and spend some time on the laptop looking for a lens.
 
I have the GODOX V860iii flash gun. Don't forget the power output of the flash is variable. Far bettter than one with a weak output. Also take a look at the battery as it is a
lithium battery that lasts
 
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forumdcca6429 said:
One R7-specific setup point for whichever flash you choose: check the shutter mode before testing it. Canon specifies a mode other than Electronic for flash photography; Mechanical is a straightforward starting point. I would make the first test a single shot at 1/125 s with the flash fully charged, rather than a fast burst. That keeps shutter-mode and recycling issues separate from compatibility. If it does not fire, also check External Speedlite control > Flash firing is set to Enable. The relevant R7 manual page is https://cam.start.canon/en/C005/manual/html/UG-04_Shooting-1_0140.html . It will not guarantee a particular third-party flash works, but it avoids judging one while the camera is set to a mode that prevents flash.
Click to expand...
Thank you,I'm going to have to spend quite some time familiarising myself with both the new camera and the flash, my daughter suggested last week that maybe it's time I did a photography course, I'll have to look into it at some time in the future. I'm still in a tiz about the lens I want to buy,I have settled on the 100-400 but the one I have seen is a MKI,as new condition at £758 I think, I have been advised to get a MKII but so far the only ones I can find are out of my price range,the only disadvantage I can see with the MKI is that it's push/pull for the zoom
 
Bob Monkhouse said:
Thank you,I'm going to have to spend quite some time familiarising myself with both the new camera and the flash, my daughter suggested last week that maybe it's time I did a photography course, I'll have to look into it at some time in the future. I'm still in a tiz about the lens I want to buy,I have settled on the 100-400 but the one I have seen is a MKI,as new condition at £758 I think, I have been advised to get a MKII but so far the only ones I can find are out of my price range,the only disadvantage I can see with the MKI is that it's push/pull for the zoom, I'll wait till we're back from the Broads on Saturday and spend some time on the laptop looking for a lens.
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Bob Monkhouse said:
Thank you,I'm going to have to spend quite some time familiarising myself with both the new camera and the flash, my daughter suggested last week that maybe it's time I did a photography course, I'll have to look into it at some time in the future
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I did a course at the local college over 10 evenings for studio flash. One of the best things I ever did.

I thought I was reasonably up to speed technically before I went -- but I learned a lot and also got to do stuff I hadn't thought about.
 
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