Flash on my D3100 (and Flash questions in general)

Zarch

Zarch

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Mick
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Hi All,

I originally posted this in "lighting", but on reflection, there is an air of "basic" to it all...... so here it is.

I've owned my Nikon D3100 for about a year and I think i'm getting there (slowly) and seeing improvements. With my main subject being my 2 year old girl.

I bought myself a SB-400 flash and can instantly see the improvement using this in the house. It seems to have had far more impact to the quality of my indoor shots than all the chopping and changing of lenses i've done.

All i've been doing is flipping the flash up (fully extended) and using bounce flash off the ceiling with everything automatic flash-wise (is this iTTL?), and the camera mainly in aperture mode.

The wife bought me a stofen diffuser for Christmas, but i'm yet to use it in anger, mainly because I don't really know how to best utilise it? :thinking:

Also, do I need to stop using the flash totally flipped up high and start angling it at 45 degrees? What is the benefit/advantage of this?
And i've not even started thinking about Slow sync, Red-eye or Rear-curtain sync.

:shrug:

As you can probably tell by now, i'm very much a beginner when it comes to Flash. Is there a book that anyone can recommend? A "Flash for Beginners" type?

Everyone seems to bang on about the quality and advantages of the SB-600 over the SB-400. Yes, it does look a nice piece of kit, but it looks "very big".
Will it dwarf my D3100 and look a bit silly? I like the way my D3100 is nice and small.

Is there a limit to the reach of the SB-400? I was shooting in a village hall the other day at a birthday party and I think I was pushing the SB-400 to it limits as the celing was quite high. Would I have been better at 45 degrees? or straight on? (direct at the subject) I supose the SB-600 would have helped with reach?

Finally, i've seen comment about getting the flash off the camera. How is this possible on my D3100 as I believe it doesn't have that sort of function. Is this where leads or triggers come in? And is this all still automatic (iTTL?)

I can't see me using off camera in and around the house, but it would be nice to know how it works.

Many thanks.
 
Last edited:
Interesting post as i have a D90 and will be looking to get a flash for it soon but loathed to spend loads on one! Not got a clue what to buy or how best to use one.
 
I've deleted the other thread. Just for reference, if you post something in the wrong place just report that thread and we will move it.

On to your question. I have the SB600 & 900 and previously had an 800. The advantages of these additional flashes are:

Moving the flash away from the line between the lens and subject - This dramatically reduces red eye which would be caused by the flash reflecting off the back of the eyes.

More power - The additional flashes usually have a lot more power than the small built in flash.

Moveable head - Allowing the flash to be bounced off the roof, walls, ground etc.

More creative options - The head being further away from the lens and camera means that you can more easily fit filters and other light modifiers to them.

Increased battery life from your camera - As it isn't having to power the flash.


And more besides.....

The SB400 is a very useful flash with advantages and disadvantages. It is very small which is a clear advantage and uses only two AA batteries which is again a help. The SB400's head does move upwards (if I remember rightly) but not to the side so you can bounce off the roof but not say a side wall. The disadvantages are than it doesn't have the CLS than the 600+ have which allows it to work just the same whilst not actually on the camera, the side bounce, the LCD which allows easier setup and slightly less power (again if I remember rightly).

It is a decent flash, as you have found, but you are always going to get more as you go further up the range and the SB400 is the lowest of the 3 current flashes.
 
A general thing about these additional flashes.

CLS is an absolute wonder and one big advantage that Nikon have over other brands. You can get the equivalent using TTL radio transmitters (and in some ways this can be more powerful) but having this function actually built in is a massive advantage. Unfortunately the CLS commander is only built into the mid range+ cameras starting (if I remember rightly) with the D90.

If you don't care about CLS then there are Nissin and Yougno (spelt wrong) flashes that are built specifically for the Nikon cameras and have iTTL logic built in. This means that the flash and camera "talk" and the flashes power can be adjusted the fit the situation. These flashes are ok and much cheaper BUT they tend to be lower quality also. You should be able to pick up Jessops version for maybe £40-50 - this is a vast improvement over the built in flash but I would personally try and get an SB600.

As for size, if you think that the SB600 is big take a look at the SB900 :)
 
D90cam said:
SB600 would be a good marry with a D90?
Click to expand...

Very much so although if you are buying new the SB600 has been replaced with the SB700 and the SB900 has now been replaced with a slightly modified version. I have not yet had a play with an SB700 but if it's improvements are like those of the SB900 over it's predecessor the SB800 then it will probably be easier to use.
 
D90cam and Zarch,

I've been in your situations or similar, so I think I can offer some advice. I had a D40 (D3000 sized) and Sb400 (with stofen). I chose the 400 over bigger flashes because I didn't want the flash to dwarf the camera. I used the Sb400 for a while and it was much better than the onboard flash. Being able to bounce from the ceiling was a bit help, the increase in power was nice, and the small size was great. It was really nice as a walkaround flash when you wanted just a little fill in sunlight.

After a few months with that combo, I was gifted a D90 and sold my D40. The Sb400 on the D90 was also a nice little combo for the same reasons above. Proportionally it was much smaller than the camera (my D90 is gripped) so on top of a gripped D90 it was like there was nothing there. No difference to shooting ability with the upgraded camera.

I found myself limited though at times with not being able to swivel the flash. I also wanted something that would give me more power for long lenses and ideally high speed sync. I picked up a used Jessops 360 to give me all of that except the HSS. The Jessops was iTTL (same as SB400), much more powerful, and did full swivel/bounce. I could also use it off camera triggered by the D90 built in (thougg OCF is not my bag). The jessops was a nice intro to the 'big' flashes. It was a bit more to get used to (size wise) but it gave me a lot more functionality. It had its niggles though. Sometimes the exposures were not consistent, even shooting full manual exposure with iTTL flash. Mostly it was when the batteries were running low. Since I still wanted HSS, I've now upgraded to the SB600. That is what I wanted when I bought the Jessops, but they were too much money and used ones weren't popping up.

The Sb600 doesn't offer a lot of functionality over the Jessops (for what I need). I'm on camera, so CLS doesn't come into play (though it does work perfectly as I've trialed in the living room). The iTTL functions are perfect on every shot. HSS works perfectly without thinking. One of the biggest improvements to me- the flip lever to lock it into the hot shoe. The Jessops had a plastic rotating disk which I hated. The Nikon has a metal shoe and flip lock like the Sb400 which is awesome and secure.

All told, you get used to using a bigger flash. A D3000 will take a little more getting used to and the camera will be top heavy with just a kit lens, but the Sb600 is a great flash and if you pick one up used for reasonable money then you won't loose money if you upgrade it later.

Thanks
Rick
 
Zarch,

specific to the Sb400, angling at 45 degrees throws more light forward and less up. If you think that the light coming out of the flash head is in a cone, then with the flash at 0 degrees the cone lights from a person's knees to above their head. As you angle it up, the bottom and top points change. If you're at 90 degrees (straight up) then you're throwing just a little light forward to the person and almost all of it to the ceiling. With 45 degrees you are putting some direct light on the person and some on the ceiling. I tended to keep mine at 60/75 or so. Then I was getting just enough forward light to light the under eye shadows but still good bounce from the ceiling.

The Stofen makes for a slightly bigger area light source, but not much. If you're shooting in close (10') then it made a difference. Any further out and leave it off. With the stofen I would be at either 90 degrees (if I was trying to get any sort of ceiling bounce) or 0 degrees if I was close. Since the stofen lights up all the way around even with bounce, I found it more limiting than helpful in that situation since a 90 degree bounce wouldn't put enough on the ceiling and put too much light forward.

thanks,
rick
 
casts_by_fly said:
I picked up a used Jessops 360 to give me all of that except the HSS. The Jessops was iTTL (same as SB400), much more powerful, and did full swivel/bounce. I could also use it off camera triggered by the D90 built in (thougg OCF is not my bag). The jessops was a nice intro to the 'big' flashes. It was a bit more to get used to (size wise) but it gave me a lot more functionality. It had its niggles though. Sometimes the exposures were not consistent, even shooting full manual exposure with iTTL flash. Mostly it was when the batteries were running low. Since I still wanted HSS, I've now upgraded to the SB600. That is what I wanted when I bought the Jessops, but they were too much money and used ones weren't popping up.
Click to expand...

The Jessops only does iTTL when the flash is pointing forward. If you point it up and it doesn't do iTTL (look for my thread on this including samples). Its a bit of a b****r, but I bought mine for Macro so I'm hoping not a big disadvantage.
 
My 2p worth based on my experiences with flash guns.....

I've used a very basic Jessops flash gun (bounce only), the Jessops 360 (swivel, bounce and diffuser) and my current one is a Nissin Di866 (swivel, bounce and diffuser). I also have a stofen type defuser and Gary Fong Lightsphere.

If the ceilings are standard height (8-10ft) and white then I'd probably try and get away with just bouncing of them and/or the walls but if they're higher and/or coloured then I'd look at diffusing the flash in some way.

Depending on the distance between myself and the subject (which is usually people when I'm indoors) I will usually try the built in diffuser and bounce card on the flash at 45 degrees and vary the flash output depending on the other settings I need to use.

I rarely use the stofen diffuser any more but I always used to use that at 45 degrees and it worked pretty well.

The Lightsphere is very good if the subject(s) is close but it does "waste" a lot of light so not so good if you're trying to shoot over say 10ft. You can overcome this by upping the flash compensation but then you have to remember to knock it back down when you're up close and personal again ;)
 
Cowasaki, Casts_by_fly, Dale and Russ,

Thanks for the wonderful replies.

CLS - Think i'm miles away from this...... but thanks for the info.

SB-600 - Think I need to go and take a look at one in a shop.... see how it looks/feels on my D3100.

Maybe i'll consider a cheaper Nissin if they are iTTL capable in all modes? But size could be an issue.

Books - Is there a "Flash" techniques type book for beginners that anyone can recommend?

Triggers - as the D3100 doesn't have flash control, Am I right in thinking that I would need either a cable or some sort of trigger combo? £200 for a Nikon SU-800 seems a crazy price. What are cheap and cheerful alternatives?
 
Zarch said:
Cowasaki, Casts_by_fly, Dale and Russ,

Thanks for the wonderful replies.

CLS - Think i'm miles away from this...... but thanks for the info.

SB-600 - Think I need to go and take a look at one in a shop.... see how it looks/feels on my D3100.

Maybe i'll consider a cheaper Nissin if they are iTTL capable in all modes? But size could be an issue.

Books - Is there a "Flash" techniques type book for beginners that anyone can recommend?

Triggers - as the D3100 doesn't have flash control, Am I right in thinking that I would need either a cable or some sort of trigger combo? £200 for a Nikon SU-800 seems a crazy price. What are cheap and cheerful alternatives?
Click to expand...

iTTL triggers are very expensive. It would probably be cheaper to sell your D3100 and buy a D90 than get them.

The simplest and cheapest method is a flash cable. This would allow you to have the flash off camera whilst everything worked just as it did.

Non iTTL triggers are things like the RF602 or RF603 triggers you find on ebay etc. Probably about £30 for a pair these take a little more knowledge to use as you have to set the power on the flash and then adjust the camera. I wrote a tutorial about studio flash that explains this.
 
Zarch said:
Cowasaki, Casts_by_fly, Dale and Russ,

Triggers - as the D3100 doesn't have flash control, Am I right in thinking that I would need either a cable or some sort of trigger combo? £200 for a Nikon SU-800 seems a crazy price. What are cheap and cheerful alternatives?
Click to expand...

Sevendayshop do a nice curly cable extension that works a treat with i-ttl.

I also bought a cheapo yongnuo i-ttl flash that seems good, [ for what i want anyway] but came from hong kong, i would source this from uk if i was buying again.:gag:
 
vizzair said:
Sevendayshop do a nice curly cable extension that works a treat with i-ttl.

I also bought a cheapo yongnuo i-ttl flash that seems good, [ for what i want anyway] but came from hong kong, i would source this from uk if i was buying again.:gag:
Click to expand...

I did buy a couple of Yongnuo flashes and an iTTL lead from "Flash in the pan". He's stopped trading but I'm sure he would be able to point you in the right direction.
 
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