FLASH SPEEDS

alexam

alexam

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Malcolm
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Hi Folks,

please can someone explain to me if it is possible to obtain a flash photo at a high speed, say 500th to 1000th.

Many camera settings specify that camera flash is set at ? - possibly 1/250th, but what if a higher speed is needed. Does the off camera flash allow for higher speeds?

Thanks

Malcolm
 
If you use a decent external flashgun they have high speed flash which enables fast shutter speeds as you say.
 
Just what I was hoping someone would say.

Will the off camera flash have limits? I have yet to get one, but expect I will need the be the best and more than likely the Canon, as I am leaning heaviuly in that direction having only a 'Bridge' camera at present.

Thanks

Malcolm
 
alexam said:
Just what I was hoping someone would say.

Will the off camera flash have limits? I have yet to get one, but expect I will need the be the best and more than likely the Canon, as I am leaning heaviuly in that direction having only a 'Bridge' camera at present.

Thanks

Malcolm
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if you get a canon then not sure it will work as ETTLII with your bridge camera :shrug: you could probably use it on manual settings until you buy a canon dslr if that is the way you want to go.
 
Thanks again Janice,

I am compiling my 'wish list' of equipment for when I make the change, but learning a lot from answers to questions such as this.

Appreciate your help.

Malcolm
 
I think you will find the Flash Sync speed is dependant on the mechanics of the camera and not on what flash equipment is used. The flash sync comes from the flash being able to fire will both blinds of the shutter are fully open.
Please someone correct me if I am wrong and things have changed a bit now.
 
Hi Kevin,

I have just been reading something about this and would like to know how up to date the info may be.

Lets say I have a Canon 50d and the best Canon flash unit - or one that will work accordingly. Can I get high speed flash sync (say 1000th-2000th)with such a set up?

Alternatively with the 50D, what would I need.

Thanks

Malcolm
 
The answer is yes and no.
With a standard setup of camera and any type of flash the answer is no. The highest flash sync will be dependant on the model of camera used. I can remember years ago this sometimes being a 1/30th second.
Now I think it is possible to sync at higher speeds but I think you will have to check out the Pocket Wizard range of products. Although they are expensive I think they have bought out a gismo that lets you sync flash at higher speeds.
 
alexam said:
Lets say I have a Canon 50d and the best Canon flash unit - or one that will work accordingly. Can I get high speed flash sync (say 1000th-2000th)with such a set up?
Click to expand...

you wil get whatever you need... the flash gives lots of little pulses till you have enough.

the distance of the flash will be not as far and the batteries will run out sooner.
 
Chaz Photos said:
my question would be why do you need a high sync?
If your lighting is just the flash you will have a very short exposure, (not shutter but light wise) as the flash speed is very fast.
Click to expand...

to control depth of field when using flash in strong light

alexam said:
Hi Kevin,

I have just been reading something about this and would like to know how up to date the info may be.

Lets say I have a Canon 50d and the best Canon flash unit - or one that will work accordingly. Can I get high speed flash sync (say 1000th-2000th)with such a set up?

Alternatively with the 50D, what would I need.

Thanks

Malcolm
Click to expand...

yes but you would need to be using ttl flash either on camera, on a ttl cord or using canons wireless ttl system (and possibly the ttl pocket wizards)
 
Chaz Photos said:
my question would be why do you need a high sync?
If your lighting is just the flash you will have a very short exposure, (not shutter but light wise) as the flash speed is very fast.
Click to expand...

If you have bright sun behind a subject and the subject is then looking dark, you will need to expose for the brightness behind with the shutter speed and let the flash expose to put a tad of fill on the subject

Therefore you would need a high shutter speed to expose the bright rear light properly.
 
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If you are using a compact or bridge camera (like your Fuji S9600) with an electronic shutter, you should not be limited to 1/250s sync times..?

The reason for the 1/250s limit with a normal (mechanical curtain) shutter is that with faster shutter speeds, the first curtain will not have opened fully before the second one starts closing already. This means that the entire sensor is not exposed to light at any time (rather a 'slot' sweeps across it). If you fire the flash in a situation like this, only the part of the sensor where the slot happens to be is going to receive the flash light.

On these cameras, High Speed Sync is a special flash mode that avoids this problem by pulsing the flash very fast, thus basically splitting the required light from one big blast into a number of smaller ones. This allows the entire sweep of the shutter curtain slot to be illuminated. It eats up power though so your range will be reduced.

With an electronic sensor you don't have this problem as entire the sensor is always exposed to light (that's how your EVF works), and during an exposure it will simply "record photons" until the "shutter speed" is reached and then the values will be read from the sensor outputs. So there is no moving slot and no need for high speed sync pulsing.

All this said, I've no idea about how Fuji does flash and if any external flashguns have Fuji-specific functionality.
 
Thanks for all the information given so far.
I am starting to understand a little more and although my present camera is the Fuji S9600, it is my intention to upgrade to full DSLR. I just needed to clarify what a good off camera flash will do.

All your help is appreciated and expands my knowledge.

Malcolm
 
I'm not sure you're getting the answers you need, though it's all here amongst the posts above. Likewise, we still don't know why you need this information and therefore how best to answer. So an overview as biefly as I can...

All DSLRs use a focal plane type shutter (google) which means they can only sync with conventional flash up to a certain shutter speed, around 1/200sec to 1/250sec. If you fire the flash at higher speeds than this, only part of the picture will be exposed by the flash and the rest of the frame will be black.

However, the flash pulse itself, the flash duration, is very short - typically 1/1000sec on full power reducing to maybe 1/30,000sec at lowest power. So even with relatively long shutter speeds you can still have a very fast effective flash exposure time.

To enable you to sync flash at much higher focal plane shutter speeds, as you might need to do in bright ambient light with fill-in flash, most decent flash guns have a high speed sync mode (Nikon call it FP flash). As described above, the gun pulses extemely rapidly, firing repeated flashes at up to 50,000 times per second, and it keeps this up just long enough for the focal plane shutter to complete its full cycle, thus exposing the sensor evenly all over with no black bits.

The downside of this trick is that as the power of the flash gun is spread over a much longer time, the brightness is diluted, and in addition a lot of this light is wasted as it will inevitably fall on part-closed shutter curtains, which is obviously doing nothing. What this means in practice is that total flash power in HSS mode is substantially reduced, so maximum flash range is cut quite a lot (and the recycle times are long as the flash is always working flat out). And the faster the shutter speed, the more light is wasted and the worse it gets. It's still a fantastically useful feature though, especially when it is fully integrated into the auto-TTL metering system (Canon E-TTL, Nikon iTTL).

The best Canon gun is the 580EXII (Nikon SB900 is similar) which is powerful and does all these things, and more. It is also a master controller for multi-remote off camera flash set ups.
 
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Just want to hi-jack the post briefly...............What are the improvements on the 58011 compared to the 580 Mk 1l?
 
NigelPaul said:
Just want to hi-jack the post briefly...............What are the improvements on the 58011 compared to the 580 Mk 1l?
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Identical flash spec. Main differences are a PC sync socket, a stronger foot, weathersealing and a slightly redesigned control interface.
 
HoppyUK said:
Identical flash spec. Main differences are a PC sync socket, a stronger foot, weathersealing and a slightly redesigned control interface.
Click to expand...

massive difference I only learnt recently is that it can be controlled from the cameras menu on a modern camera. So all the complicated setting of ratios can be done on a big bright colour screen with wheels and buttons, not the back of the flash. Which is bloody clever :D
 
david1701 said:
massive difference I only learnt recently is that it can be controlled from the cameras menu on a modern camera. So all the complicated setting of ratios can be done on a big bright colour screen with wheels and buttons, not the back of the flash. Which is bloody clever :D
Click to expand...

Though ratio's etc are a doddle if you use the ST-E2.
 
Hi Richard,

thanks for that clarification, it's most helpful. My needs are still to be clarified, but if I were to be taking fast sport in poor light, I may need something faster than the 1/250th my present camera allows with the built in camera.

It is my intention to get the best flash unit, which will be the 580 EXll if I buy the Canon 50D, or alternative if I go the Nikon route.

Ultimately a second flash unit, but I need to take a step at a time as updating this hobby can get rather expensive all in one go!

Many thanks to all who have replied

Malcolm
 
alexam said:
Hi Richard,

thanks for that clarification, it's most helpful. My needs are still to be clarified, but if I were to be taking fast sport in poor light, I may need something faster than the 1/250th my present camera allows with the built in camera.

It is my intention to get the best flash unit, which will be the 580 EXll if I buy the Canon 50D, or alternative if I go the Nikon route.

Ultimately a second flash unit, but I need to take a step at a time as updating this hobby can get rather expensive all in one go!

Many thanks to all who have replied

Malcolm
Click to expand...

Ah, well. Now there you have it. "Fast sport in low light" doesn't usually lend itself to flash, for a number of reasons, but the main one is because you can't get close enough. Flash light falls away very rapidly over distance due to the inverse square law, which says that every time you double the distance the light is reduced to one quarter.

It's a technically very demanding aspect of photography which is why you usually see sports togs with massive low f/number lenses costing thousands, and cameras capable of exceptionally high ISO performance like the Nikon D3 and Canon 1D4.

Flash for indoor sports like basketball and such, maybe, but for field sports pretty much not :(
 
Sounds like the EF 135/2 might be the flash for you :)

Realistically, as Hoppy said, flash is not an option for most sports. High ISO, large aperture, that's your ticket.

Canon 7D, 5D2 or 1D3 for the body, 135/2 or 85/1.8 for a short and reasonably priced lens pops to mind. Going longer on lenses, the budget can get out of hand pretty quick :) 200/2L IS for the ultimate drool-kit.

Once you know what you're shooting and your budget, a lot more advice will follow.. :)
 
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