Flash triggers compatibility

[juggler]

Does a basic centre pin trigger (e.g. Lencarta Wavesync 433Mhz +FT16)work on all modern (last 10 years) bodies for basic flash triggering (i.e. no HSS, no TTL)

I'm after real world experience, not 'it should' opinions.

I know the old Sony Alphas have an unusual hotshoe and that it's possible to buy an adapter.
I know that Godox triggers for Fuji, m4/3m Nikon & Canon all work on my Nikons & Olympus
I know that Godox triggers for Sony don't work on my Nikon. Is the converse true?

Background: I'm helping out with lighting at a photography event and trying to work out how many triggers I need to supply / buy. I have no knowledge of what cameras folk will be bringing and no way of finding out.

 

[sirch]

One thing I have found when using an incompatible trigger on a camera is if the pins other than the centre pin make contact then some cameras won't fire the centre pin but if you can insulate the other pins then the camera will fire the centre pin. I hope that makes sense and it is hard to do, thin tape such as parcel tape works but even then if the hotshoe is a tight fit the tape might get pushed off when fitting the trigger.

The other approach I have used is to put a cheap centre pin only trigger on the camera and use that to fire the main trigger.

The upshot being, in my experience, if you can make the camera think it only has a centre pin connection it will fire the centre pin.

 

[Harlequin565]

I have run several flash workshops & lessons. My tips:

Canon cameras are the most problematic. Last student had (IIRC) a 2000D that had no centre pin in the camera hotshoe. Same for (IIRC!) the 400D or 450D. tl;dr, some Canon cameras don't have that centre pin in the hotshoe. One student managed to buy a giant Godox trigger thing that worked ok but I have no clue what it was called or how it worked.

I've had 2 students with cameras where the hotshoe "rail" that the trigger slides into on top of the camera were bent. A screwdriver to lever it up can help but I don't do it for them in case it breaks.

I currently use a pair of Lencarta Wave Sync transmitters (Godox rebranded I think) which have worked on everything from a knackered old bridge camera through EOS film cameras, to the newest digital models. I've been really surprised to see how simple it really is. I'm pretty sure mine were "for Canon" and they've worked on Panasonic, Nikon, Olympus 4/3, Sony [not tried Alphas], Canon, & Fuji X.

And I'm sure you know this, but there will be people who turn up with Auto-ISO set and no clue how to turn it off, exposure preview "on" (and no clue how to turn it off) and no clue how to change aperture & shutter in manual mode. An internet connection to allow you to Google these things will save time.

I ended up getting some people to just take their SD card out of their camera and put it in mine, or a working spare I brought for the shoot. I had insurance to cover it and it was much quicker and easier than scrolling through websites trying to trace some strange compatibility/menu problem between camera a and trigger b.

Good luck!

 

[Faldrax]

Regarding the two styles of Sony Hot-shoe - on a body with the 'old' Minolta hotshoe + adaptor the combination ends up being a bit 'wobbly' and as a result a bit hit and miss, I found (using A900, adaptor and old Godox XT-16). Much more reliable was to use my dedicated Pixel King trigger / receiver set and the sync port of my DE-300's. I found I could have the usb receiver plugged in at the same time, so use the XT-16 handheld to adjust power, etc. while triggering was done using the pixel kings.

I've not personally tried a specific Godox Sony fit trigger on my A6000 (which does have the new hot shoe), but from reading on various Sony and Godox forums, the impression I get is that Nikon (or Canon) Godox triggers will work as 'centre pin' triggers on a Sony body - BUT you do need to take a bit of care when fitting the trigger to ensure the centre pin lines up due to the slightly different front / back dimensions of the Sony shoe to allow for the stupid front contacts!

 

[juggler]

I have run several flash workshops & lessons. My tips:

Canon cameras are the most problematic. Last student had (IIRC) a 2000D that had no centre pin in the camera hotshoe. Same for (IIRC!) the 400D or 450D. tl;dr, some Canon cameras don't have that centre pin in the hotshoe. One student managed to buy a giant Godox trigger thing that worked ok but I have no clue what it was called or how it worked.

Thanks - I've run plenty in the past but I've either had access to a huge pile of triggers or I've known in advance exactly what people are bringing.

I've had 2 students with cameras where the hotshoe "rail" that the trigger slides into on top of the camera were bent. A screwdriver to lever it up can help but I don't do it for them in case it breaks.

I currently use a pair of Lencarta Wave Sync transmitters (Godox rebranded I think) which have worked on everything from a knackered old bridge camera through EOS film cameras, to the newest digital models. I've been really surprised to see how simple it really is. I'm pretty sure mine were "for Canon" and they've worked on Panasonic, Nikon, Olympus 4/3, Sony [not tried Alphas], Canon, & Fuji X.

A few others who run events seem to favour the FT16 and XT16 (aka Wavesync) triggers. And I've been told elsewhere that the reason the Sony trigger doesn't work on my Nikon is that the hotshoe is deeper on Sonys so the centre pin is in a different relative position; whereas with careful fiddling it does work the other way round.

And I'm sure you know this, but there will be people who turn up with Auto-ISO set and no clue how to turn it off, exposure preview "on" (and no clue how to turn it off) and no clue how to change aperture & shutter in manual mode. An internet connection to allow you to Google these things will save time.

There's a new issue too - electronic silent shutter mode disables flash on some mirrorless bodies. I don't know the ins and outs of this one but it's cropped up at the last couple of events I've run.

I ended up getting some people to just take their SD card out of their camera and put it in mine, or a working spare I brought for the shoot. I had insurance to cover it and it was much quicker and easier than scrolling through websites trying to trace some strange compatibility/menu problem between camera a and trigger b.

Absolutely; that's my final option!

 

[Phil V]

I have run several flash workshops & lessons. My tips:

Canon cameras are the most problematic. Last student had (IIRC) a 2000D that had no centre pin in the camera hotshoe. Same for (IIRC!) the 400D or 450D. tl;dr, some Canon cameras don't have that centre pin in the hotshoe. One student managed to buy a giant Godox trigger thing that worked ok but I have no clue what it was called or how it worked.

I've had 2 students with cameras where the hotshoe "rail" that the trigger slides into on top of the camera were bent. A screwdriver to lever it up can help but I don't do it for them in case it breaks.

I currently use a pair of Lencarta Wave Sync transmitters (Godox rebranded I think) which have worked on everything from a knackered old bridge camera through EOS film cameras, to the newest digital models. I've been really surprised to see how simple it really is. I'm pretty sure mine were "for Canon" and they've worked on Panasonic, Nikon, Olympus 4/3, Sony [not tried Alphas], Canon, & Fuji X.

And I'm sure you know this, but there will be people who turn up with Auto-ISO set and no clue how to turn it off, exposure preview "on" (and no clue how to turn it off) and no clue how to change aperture & shutter in manual mode. An internet connection to allow you to Google these things will save time.

I ended up getting some people to just take their SD card out of their camera and put it in mine, or a working spare I brought for the shoot. I had insurance to cover it and it was much quicker and easier than scrolling through websites trying to trace some strange compatibility/menu problem between camera a and trigger b.

Good luck!

IIRC the only canon cameras without a centre pin are the very latest (post 2018) ‘entry level’ the 2000d, 1500d, 3000d, 4000d.

The older 400 - 750 kind of bodies had proper hot shoes.

 

[TimHughes]

Is there any way to find out what the people coming will bring?

A couple of things that tripped me up recently:
- Canon R5 in electronic shutter mode does not fire flash.
- Godox canon is unreliable on Fuji.

Good luck for the event

 

[Scooter]

I have run several flash workshops & lessons. My tips:

Canon cameras are the most problematic. Last student had (IIRC) a 2000D that had no centre pin in the camera hotshoe. Same for (IIRC!) the 400D or 450D. tl;dr, some Canon cameras don't have that centre pin in the hotshoe. One student managed to buy a giant Godox trigger thing that worked ok but I have no clue what it was called or how it worked.

I've had 2 students with cameras where the hotshoe "rail" that the trigger slides into on top of the camera were bent. A screwdriver to lever it up can help but I don't do it for them in case it breaks.

I currently use a pair of Lencarta Wave Sync transmitters (Godox rebranded I think) which have worked on everything from a knackered old bridge camera through EOS film cameras, to the newest digital models. I've been really surprised to see how simple it really is. I'm pretty sure mine were "for Canon" and they've worked on Panasonic, Nikon, Olympus 4/3, Sony [not tried Alphas], Canon, & Fuji X.

And I'm sure you know this, but there will be people who turn up with Auto-ISO set and no clue how to turn it off, exposure preview "on" (and no clue how to turn it off) and no clue how to change aperture & shutter in manual mode. An internet connection to allow you to Google these things will save time.

I ended up getting some people to just take their SD card out of their camera and put it in mine, or a working spare I brought for the shoot. I had insurance to cover it and it was much quicker and easier than scrolling through websites trying to trace some strange compatibility/menu problem between camera a and trigger b.

Good luck!

hehe - I've had all of this too on workshops in recent years - and we ended up using the option of last resort for a client that turned up with a Canon 200D (aka SL3, Kiss X10 etc) - no centre pin! This is also the case for the 1500D, 2000D, 3000D, and 4000D. I believe Godox now makes a specific trigger for these cameras.

Also note none of the Canon cameras I've tested will do rear curtain sync with regular studio lighting. Found that out at a dance workshop I ran a few years ago and we ended up having to trigger the flash with the test button on the trigger for the Canon folks.

 

[swanseamale47]

Some old Canon film cameras had a reversed polarity? They wouldn't fire some studio flashes, you could actually buy a reversed flash lead for these, I had this problem with my then Courtenay? I think flash.

 

[juggler]

IIRC the only canon cameras without a centre pin are the very latest (post 2018) ‘entry level’ the 2000d, 1500d, 3000d, 4000d.

The older 400 - 750 kind of bodies had proper hot shoes.

thanks, useful

 

[juggler]

Is there any way to find out what the people coming will bring?

alas no, I'm increasingly getting booked to run events for other people rather than myself

A couple of things that tripped me up recently:
- Canon R5 in electronic shutter mode does not fire flash.

Thanks - Nikon mirrorless are similar when in silent shutter mode

- Godox canon is unreliable on Fuji.

Useful, ta

Also note none of the Canon cameras I've tested will do rear curtain sync with regular studio lighting. Found that out at a dance workshop I ran a few years ago and we ended up having to trigger the flash with the test button on the trigger for the Canon folks.

That bizarre design decision was one of the reasons I went with Nikon years ago!

Some old Canon film cameras had a reversed polarity? They wouldn't fire some studio flashes, you could actually buy a reversed flash lead for these, I had this problem with my then Courtenay? I think flash.

I didn't know that. My experience of firing flashes from film cameras is limited to Praktica and Olympus, both of which are fairly standard.

hehe - I've had all of this too on workshops in recent years - and we ended up using the option of last resort for a client that turned up with a Canon 200D (aka SL3, Kiss X10 etc) - no centre pin! This is also the case for the 1500D, 2000D, 3000D, and 4000D. I believe Godox now makes a specific trigger for these cameras.

My last-but-one resort is usually to slave from built-in on camera flash. A little bit of tinfoil is enough to flag the subject. But that's not possible with multiple groups shooting at once, or in extra large spaces.

 

[Phil V]

hehe - I've had all of this too on workshops in recent years - and we ended up using the option of last resort for a client that turned up with a Canon 200D (aka SL3, Kiss X10 etc) - no centre pin! This is also the case for the 1500D, 2000D, 3000D, and 4000D. I believe Godox now makes a specific trigger for these cameras.

Also note none of the Canon cameras I've tested will do rear curtain sync with regular studio lighting. Found that out at a dance workshop I ran a few years ago and we ended up having to trigger the flash with the test button on the trigger for the Canon folks.

I thought that Canon cameras won’t do rear curtain sync on anything remote that uses Canon protocols, but Yongnuo and Godox (maybe others) happily trigger on the rear curtain.

But now I’m thinking you’re a Godox user with more experience than me and I’m doubting myself.

 

[Scooter]

I thought that Canon cameras won’t do rear curtain sync on anything remote that uses Canon protocols, but Yongnuo and Godox (maybe others) happily trigger on the rear curtain.

But now I’m thinking you’re a Godox user with more experience than me and I’m doubting myself.

The rear curtain sync is a function of the speedlite with Canon. I suspect it's because the flash pulse is always sent at the start on Canon bodies, and rear curtain sync works by the Speedlite calculating and adding a delay to the flash based on the selected shutter speed. Nikon cameras will do rear curtain even on bulb (where the camera cannot know the exposure duration ahead of time) and it works by sending the flash signal through the shoe at the time the shutter closes (which must extend the exposure time by just enough time for the flash pulse to get out, but as you'll be on some pretty long exposures, a few extra milliseconds won't make any difference to anything).

We couldn't make it work on any basic triggers, YN422's or Godox FT16. If I remember correctly, you couldn't even set it on the cameras, you needed to do it on the Speedlite. I haven't tested this with any of the latest Canon bodies though so you never know it may have changed. There are also lots of workarounds and fudges on many lighting systems now (some like Elinchrom even advertised this as a "feature" - ie "our new light does rear curtain sync" which is a bit like saying "our new car goes downhill as well as uphill"

 

[HoppyUK]

The rear curtain sync is a function of the speedlite with Canon. I suspect it's because the flash pulse is always sent at the start on Canon bodies, and rear curtain sync works by the Speedlite calculating and adding a delay to the flash based on the selected shutter speed. Nikon cameras will do rear curtain even on bulb (where the camera cannot know the exposure duration ahead of time) and it works by sending the flash signal through the shoe at the time the shutter closes (which must extend the exposure time by just enough time for the flash pulse to get out, but as you'll be on some pretty long exposures, a few extra milliseconds won't make any difference to anything).

We couldn't make it work on any basic triggers, YN422's or Godox FT16. If I remember correctly, you couldn't even set it on the cameras, you needed to do it on the Speedlite. I haven't tested this with any of the latest Canon bodies though so you never know it may have changed. There are also lots of workarounds and fudges on many lighting systems now (some like Elinchrom even advertised this as a "feature" - ie "our new light does rear curtain sync" which is a bit like saying "our new car goes downhill as well as uphill"

Rear-curtain sync is a feature of every Canon DSLR and speedlite I've ever used. The anomaly is that it's not a feature of Canon flash triggers but is widely available with other brands, eg Godox. On some Godox strobes there is also a delay function on the unit itself to fine-tune rear-curtain sync timing. This is separate to the delay function on Godox triggers that's used to fine-tune HSS (or hypersync) timing (it works in much finer increments).

 

[Scooter]

Rear-curtain sync is a feature of every Canon DSLR and speedlite I've ever used. The anomaly is that it's not a feature of Canon flash triggers but is widely available with other brands, eg Godox. On some Godox strobes there is also a delay function on the unit itself to fine-tune rear-curtain sync timing. This is separate to the delay function on Godox triggers that's used to fine-tune HSS (or hypersync) timing (it works in much finer increments).

Hi Richard, that's useful to know. Do you know where you set the flash to rear-curtain when using, let's say a Godox trigger?

 

[HoppyUK]

Hi Richard, that's useful to know. Do you know where you set the flash to rear-curtain when using, let's say a Godox trigger?

Press the sync button on the trigger and it scrolls through 1st-curtain, 2nd-curtain and HSS. Strangely, on my Canon 5D2 the in-camera menu is greyed out for 2nd-curtain even when the trigger is attached and switched on and set to 2nd-curtain, but the flash definitely fires on 2nd-curtain when set on the trigger.

I have two Godox triggers, X2T and FlashPoint R2 Pro Mk2. Both are fully-featured but I'm not sure about other models that may have less functionality. Also I can't speak for all Canon cameras and I think some of the more entry level versions do have different flash capabilities. Ditto Nikon.

 

[HoppyUK]

I don't envy anyone running a course and expected to know the ins and outs of every camera's flash system They're all a bit different, especially in the details, and may or may not have all features. I don't find any of them particularly intuitive and if you don't use them regularly its easy to forget.

For example, I hardly ever use my Godox V1 speedlite (just go straight to the triggers) and when I was checking this 2nd-curtain thing it took a bit of fiddling around first. But in my confusion I rediscovered a few things:
- You can't even get into the Canon flash menus without a compatible flash or trigger in the hot-shoe, and have it switched on
- With either of my fully compatible triggers, the 2nd-curtain setting is greyed-out and can't be selected. However, with the V1 speedlite, it's not greyed-out and can be selected
- However, either way, when 2nd-curtain is selected on the trigger, it works regardless!

 

[Scooter]

Press the sync button on the trigger and it scrolls through 1st-curtain, 2nd-curtain and HSS. Strangely, on my Canon 5D2 the in-camera menu is greyed out for 2nd-curtain even when the trigger is attached and switched on and set to 2nd-curtain, but the flash definitely fires on 2nd-curtain when set on the trigger.

I have two Godox triggers, X2T and FlashPoint R2 Pro Mk2. Both are fully-featured but I'm not sure about other models that may have less functionality. Also I can't speak for all Canon cameras and I think some of the more entry level versions do have different flash capabilities. Ditto Nikon.

Ah right, that makes sense (ie that it's the trigger doing the work). I don't know for sure of course, but I think what's going on is that the (Canon) camera body always triggers the flash at the start of the exposure, and is also sending the shutter speed to the trigger which is then calculating when to actually fire the flashes. A useful test would be to see if it can still do rear curtain sync with the shutter set to bulb (if it can, I'm wrong and there's something else going on as the camera can't tell the trigger the exposure time as it won't know it!). Of course, it may just be an arbitrary "no off-brand kit allowed" decision by Canon which Godox, and others have found a way around. Possibly the Godox implementation of the Canon flash protocol isn't perfect and the camera doesn't recognise it as a Canon flash device, which is why the option is greyed out on the camera menu.

On Nikon - I know the D200, D700, D800E, D810, D850 can all do rear-curtain with any flash device, but these were all near the top end of the Nikon range in their day. I have a D5200 somewhere - I'll dig it out and see if it behaves the same. Nikon also does this sort of "range engineering" to drive customers to buy the latest widget - eg they deleted the pop-up from the high-end bodies so you could no longer use the advanced wireless lighting system direct from the camera as a "commander" without a flash or trigger mounted. They wanted everyone to buy their new radio trigger that plugs into the proprietary 10-pin socket and buy £600 SB5000 speedlights to go with it. (I swapped all my Nikon SB900 flashes for Godox V860-IIs instead)

 

[HoppyUK]

Ah right, that makes sense (ie that it's the trigger doing the work). I don't know for sure of course, but I think what's going on is that the (Canon) camera body always triggers the flash at the start of the exposure, and is also sending the shutter speed to the trigger which is then calculating when to actually fire the flashes. A useful test would be to see if it can still do rear curtain sync with the shutter set to bulb (if it can, I'm wrong and there's something else going on as the camera can't tell the trigger the exposure time as it won't know it!). Of course, it may just be an arbitrary "no off-brand kit allowed" decision by Canon which Godox, and others have found a way around. Possibly the Godox implementation of the Canon flash protocol isn't perfect and the camera doesn't recognise it as a Canon flash device, which is why the option is greyed out on the camera menu.

On Nikon - I know the D200, D700, D800E, D810, D850 can all do rear-curtain with any flash device, but these were all near the top end of the Nikon range in their day. I have a D5200 somewhere - I'll dig it out and see if it behaves the same. Nikon also does this sort of "range engineering" to drive customers to buy the latest widget - eg they deleted the pop-up from the high-end bodies so you could no longer use the advanced wireless lighting system direct from the camera as a "commander" without a flash or trigger mounted. They wanted everyone to buy their new radio trigger that plugs into the proprietary 10-pin socket and buy £600 SB5000 speedlights to go with it. (I swapped all my Nikon SB900 flashes for Godox V860-IIs instead)

Good thought Owen So I tried it... and you are both right and wrong!

With the Godox V1 speedlite in the Canon 5D2's hot-shoe and shutter speed on B, 2nd-curtain sync fires the flash at the end of the exposure as it should. But hook up a Godox trigger, set to 2nd-curtain sync on B, and the flash fires right at the start of the exposure! In other words, 2nd-curtain sync can't be used with shutter speeds longer than 30 secs. Unless you fire it manually and that's actually not too difficult, especially as the frame counter becomes a handy seconds counter on B.

I agree with your comments about the cynical way both Canon and Nikon (and probably most other camera brands) configure their systems to make it as difficult as possible for third-party manufacturers to make fully compatible products. I can understand why they do it with lenses as they obviously want us to buy their own but with flash no camera maker offers anything apart from speedlights. Nothing at all. It's a right PITA for us and the phrase 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' springs to mind.

 

[Scooter]

Good thought Owen So I tried it... and you are both right and wrong!

With the Godox V1 speedlite in the Canon 5D2's hot-shoe and shutter speed on B, 2nd-curtain sync fires the flash at the end of the exposure as it should. But hook up a Godox trigger, set to 2nd-curtain sync on B, and the flash fires right at the start of the exposure! In other words, 2nd-curtain sync can't be used with shutter speeds longer than 30 secs. Unless you fire it manually and that's actually not too difficult, especially as the frame counter becomes a handy seconds counter on B.

I agree with your comments about the cynical way both Canon and Nikon (and probably most other camera brands) configure their systems to make it as difficult as possible for third-party manufacturers to make fully compatible products. I can understand why they do it with lenses as they obviously want us to buy their own but with flash no camera maker offers anything apart from speedlights. Nothing at all. It's a right PITA for us and the phrase 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' springs to mind.

The plot thickens! (or maybe Godox just got better at imitating a Canon speedlite by the time they made the V1 - but you would think this was fixable in the trigger firmware tbh)

 

[juggler]

Good thought Owen So I tried it... and you are both right and wrong!

With the Godox V1 speedlite in the Canon 5D2's hot-shoe and shutter speed on B, 2nd-curtain sync fires the flash at the end of the exposure as it should. But hook up a Godox trigger, set to 2nd-curtain sync on B, and the flash fires right at the start of the exposure! In other words, 2nd-curtain sync can't be used with shutter speeds longer than 30 secs. Unless you fire it manually and that's actually not too difficult, especially as the frame counter becomes a handy seconds counter on B.

I agree with your comments about the cynical way both Canon and Nikon (and probably most other camera brands) configure their systems to make it as difficult as possible for third-party manufacturers to make fully compatible products. I can understand why they do it with lenses as they obviously want us to buy their own but with flash no camera maker offers anything apart from speedlights. Nothing at all. It's a right PITA for us and the phrase 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' springs to mind.

It's curious that one works and the other doesn't. I'd have guessed that either the camera will send the shutter speed to the flash so it can do the rear curtain, or send a 'shutter closing soon' signal.

Sufficiently curious, in fact, that I did a quick google.

http://www.kwga.com/blog/canon-ettl-protocol-investigation says the camera sends the aperture value to the flash whenever it changes so it's safe to assume it does the same with the shutter speed.

The fact that B can work shows they're sending the 'shutter about to close' signal too.

It looks like the two Godox devices are using different approaches. Which Godox trigger did you use? Each new generation seems to have been a complete firmware rewrite with different limitations. The oft-quoted line about 'one common ecosystem for all your flashes' is almost meaningless.

(For instance: the XPro triggers don't work properly with the XTR16 receivers in AD360 flashes. The XTR16 X1T works fine. Apart from the fact that I can change power settings with my forehead)

 

[HoppyUK]

It's curious that one works and the other doesn't. I'd have guessed that either the camera will send the shutter speed to the flash so it can do the rear curtain, or send a 'shutter closing soon' signal.

Sufficiently curious, in fact, that I did a quick google.

http://www.kwga.com/blog/canon-ettl-protocol-investigation says the camera sends the aperture value to the flash whenever it changes so it's safe to assume it does the same with the shutter speed.

The fact that B can work shows they're sending the 'shutter about to close' signal too.

It looks like the two Godox devices are using different approaches. Which Godox trigger did you use? Each new generation seems to have been a complete firmware rewrite with different limitations. The oft-quoted line about 'one common ecosystem for all your flashes' is almost meaningless.

(For instance: the XPro triggers don't work properly with the XTR16 receivers in AD360 flashes. The XTR16 X1T works fine. Apart from the fact that I can change power settings with my forehead)

The trigger was the R2 Pro2.

That link is dated 2015 so a lot might have happened since. Canon is known for changing things with new camera models, both lens and flash protocols, and I don't know what the situation is now with the new mirrorless cameras. As the boss of Sigma UK once told me, "they like to play games with us" meaning that they seem to change things for no obvious operational reason.

 

[bdslr]

The only challenges I've ever had was with a Fuji. I took it into a studio put the trigger on and nothing. Godox trigger of some sort.

I had a Nikon - tried that worked first time.
Had a dumb trigger. Used that with the fuji (to prove it wasn't the camera). Worked with my flashgun

Ended up having a flash gun fire and used the studio lights to fire on flash.

Later I've bought a basic trigger which the receiver ca be attached to lights and... hey presto, the dumb triggers work

 

[Scooter]

The oft-quoted line about 'one common ecosystem for all your flashes' is almost meaningless.

Ah yes... <sigh>... I have some Lencarta SF600 heads which came with 433MHz receivers. I also have a Lencarta Safari II that is of the same vintage and came with the same receiver. They both use the same FT16 trigger, however that same physically identical trigger will not control both types of light at once. It will trigger both, bot not control the power. You have to choose which of the protocols the trigger will use (by holding the test button when you power the trigger on, you can swap between the two modes). One mode goes from 5 to 10 in one-tenth increments, for the SF600's and the other mode uses fractions of full power, in one-third increments for the Safari-II. Identical hardware! So I use two FT16's in the studio: one on the camera and controlling the SF600's and other lying around to control the Safari (I like to use the Safari in the studio on a boom as the head weighs nothing).

Fast forward a bit, and I bought a number of newer Godox lights (AD200s, AD600, V860's etc) and a couple of X-Pro triggers. Thought I'd see if the older lights would play and bought the 2.4Ghz receiver with the USB style plug on it for the older lights. On an SF600, the X-Pro will trigger the light, but no amount of fiddling with the various number schemes on the X-Pro will get it to control the power. Put that receiver in the Safari though, and it works flawlessly. Full control of everything inc the modelling light. It actually *adds" a function too: you can turn the light on and off remotely with the X-Pro trigger. You can't do that with the original radios - you had to just turn the output all the way down to 0 to turn the light off remotely. Now I can flick it on and off and it remembers the power setting! This also means the Safari can play seamlessly with the new Godox lights on location - which is great! (I do sometimes forget it's a voltage regulated light though - until I see motion blur ).

Just noticed the Lencarta "Wavesysnc" 2.4GHz trigger (looks like an FT16) claims to also work with the AD series lights. I'll get one when they're back in stock and see if it will also control the SF600's. I'd lose TTL and HSS on the newer lights with that one, but I never use any of that in the studio anyway.

 

[DemiLion]

I'm fairly certain that you can change the Safari II from ratios (fractions) to studio aperture values. I just can't remember how. The same probably applies to the SF600s.

@Garry Edwards can you remember?

 

[Garry Edwards]

I'm fairly certain that you can change the Safari II from ratios (fractions) to studio aperture values. I just can't remember how. The same probably applies to the SF600s.

@Garry Edwards can you remember?

Sorry, but no I can't remember.

 

[DemiLion]

Sorry to bother you again @Garry Edwards am I imagining the change is possible or is it unlikely?

Cheers!

 

[Garry Edwards]

Sorry to bother you again @Garry Edwards am I imagining the change is possible or is it unlikely?

Cheers!

I just don't know, but I think it is possible. The Wavesync Commander (FT16) always operated all functions of the Safari 2 and displayed the power as a fraction (1 - 1/128). It may have been possible to display a different scale but I doubt whether I ever tried. Basically I just use lighting equipment, I never bother to go into the intricacies of menus and sub-menus unless I really need to.

 

[Scooter]

I just don't know, but I think it is possible. The Wavesync Commander (FT16) always operated all functions of the Safari 2 and displayed the power as a fraction (1 - 1/128). It may have been possible to display a different scale but I doubt whether I ever tried. Basically I just use lighting equipment, I never bother to go into the intricacies of menus and sub-menus unless I really need to.

Yes you can change the FT16 between the 5-10 scale and the fraction scale by holding the test button when you turn it on. It will always trigger both types of lights, but only control the power and modelling lamp for lights that match the current scale mode. You cannot turn the Safari-II on and off with the FT16 in any mode. I've never found a way of switching the scales on the Safari-II (or Godox Xenergizer). Tbh, I've never researched if you can do that on the SF600/QT600, but the power display is just 2 1980's calculator style digits so wouldn't display a fractional value.

 

[juggler]

Replying in reverse order..

Yes you can change the FT16 between the 5-10 scale and the fraction scale by holding the test button when you turn it on. It will always trigger both types of lights, but only control the power and modelling lamp for lights that match the current scale mode. You cannot turn the Safari-II on and off with the FT16 in any mode. I've never found a way of switching the scales on the Safari-II (or Godox Xenergizer). Tbh, I've never researched if you can do that on the SF600/QT600, but the power display is just 2 1980's calculator style digits so wouldn't display a fractional value.

You can't on the SF300 - according to Lencarta support, some years ago.

Just noticed the Lencarta "Wavesysnc" 2.4GHz trigger (looks like an FT16) claims to also work with the AD series lights. I'll get one when they're back in stock and see if it will also control the SF600's. I'd lose TTL and HSS on the newer lights with that one, but I never use any of that in the studio anyway.

The XT16 (i.e. 2.4Ghz FT16 lookalike) does control the power of the SF300 and QT400 with an XTR-16 plugged in.

Ah yes... <sigh>... I have some Lencarta SF600 heads which came with 433MHz receivers. I also have a Lencarta Safari II that is of the same vintage and came with the same receiver. They both use the same FT16 trigger, however that same physically identical trigger will not control both types of light at once. It will trigger both, bot not control the power. You have to choose which of the protocols the trigger will use (by holding the test button when you power the trigger on, you can swap between the two modes). One mode goes from 5 to 10 in one-tenth increments, for the SF600's and the other mode uses fractions of full power, in one-third increments for the Safari-II. Identical hardware! So I use two FT16's in the studio: one on the camera and controlling the SF600's and other lying around to control the Safari (I like to use the Safari in the studio on a boom as the head weighs nothing).

Fast forward a bit, and I bought a number of newer Godox lights (AD200s, AD600, V860's etc) and a couple of X-Pro triggers. Thought I'd see if the older lights would play and bought the 2.4Ghz receiver with the USB style plug on it for the older lights. On an SF600, the X-Pro will trigger the light, but no amount of fiddling with the various number schemes on the X-Pro will get it to control the power. Put that receiver in the Safari though, and it works flawlessly. Full control of everything inc the modelling light. It actually *adds" a function too: you can turn the light on and off remotely with the X-Pro trigger. You can't do that with the original radios - you had to just turn the output all the way down to 0 to turn the light off remotely. Now I can flick it on and off and it remembers the power setting! This also means the Safari can play seamlessly with the new Godox lights on location - which is great! (I do sometimes forget it's a voltage regulated light though - until I see motion blur ).

Unfortunately the XPro is still flawed: it doesn't work with AD360 & XTR-16. At least, it works once and but then turns the flash power to zero after firing.

Also: the XPro centre pin works for basic triggering on all the different cameras I tried - except Pentax. In that case I had to use the XT16.

I'm now using an X2T for my own stuff. It's better designed than the X1, and seems more reliable / compatible than the XPro. And it's got a pass-through hot shoe, too, which is dead handy.

In the end things went fairly smoothly. The great majority of triggering issues were users putting triggers on their cameras backwards.

 

[Faldrax]

...

In the end things went fairly smoothly. The great majority of triggering issues were users putting triggers on their cameras backwards.

Glad to hear everything went well.

Triggers on backwards??

 

[Scooter]

The XT16 (i.e. 2.4Ghz FT16 lookalike) does control the power of the SF300 and QT400 with an XTR-16 plugged in.

That's good to know - I'll get one and try it out if it does control the lot, I'll get a couple more and XTR-16's for all the lights!

Unfortunately the XPro is still flawed: it doesn't work with AD360 & XTR-16. At least, it works once and but then turns the flash power to zero after firing.

Also: the XPro centre pin works for basic triggering on all the different cameras I tried - except Pentax. In that case I had to use the XT16.

As long as you have a centre pin

 

[mike weeks]

Does a basic centre pin trigger (e.g. Lencarta Wavesync 433Mhz +FT16)work on all modern (last 10 years) bodies for basic flash triggering (i.e. no HSS, no TTL)

I'm after real world experience, not 'it should' opinions.

I know the old Sony Alphas have an unusual hotshoe and that it's possible to buy an adapter.
I know that Godox triggers for Fuji, m4/3m Nikon & Canon all work on my Nikons & Olympus
I know that Godox triggers for Sony don't work on my Nikon. Is the converse true?

Background: I'm helping out with lighting at a photography event and trying to work out how many triggers I need to supply / buy. I have no knowledge of what cameras folk will be bringing and no way of finding out.

That’s exactly what I use for that purpose but have no definite experience with that particular camera
Mike