Flash vs HTML

Tim Sainsbury

Tim Sainsbury

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Edit My Images
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I want to launch a new site to try and sell myself but am asking for opinions on this lovely subject...

Flash or HTML? Which do you prefer to see and why?

Which would you reccomend? Many sites seem to be Flash and yet theres many more people opposing Flash.

Cheers
 
The people who oppose flash tends to be the ones who knows about computers, they can give you loads of reasons - back button does not work, webstats is just 1 page, can't link to specific photo, loading time, extra plugin.....to name a few

However the majority of people online don't really know much about computers wouldn't care if the site is designed well, especially clients (in my experience). Flash can have a bigger wow factor than a HTML site and i think ultimately that is where it lies.

Mine is flash btw www.raymondlin.net
 
Google can actually map flash sites now, or so I believe...

Flash can work fantastically if done right, but if done just for the sake of using flash and is overloaded with unjustified flash effects then it usually works out rubbish!!

Raymond's site is a good use of flash....evident, but not in your face :)
 
Yes Flash can look great, but it does take time to load, and not everyone has broadband yet. Also I use firefox with an automatic flash blocker, so I don't see flash sites unless I really do want to.

So I'm the opposite of Ray and say html is the way to go IMHO.
 
whiteflyer said:
Yes Flash can look great, but it does take time to load, and not everyone has broadband yet. Also I use firefox with an automatic flash blocker, so I don't see flash sites unless I really do want to.

So I'm the opposite of Ray and say html is the way to go IMHO.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you have your reasons, but the mass majority of Tom Public wouldn't know what a flash blocker is!

There is the age old "Dialup enter here" and "Broadband enter here" option...

It's a case of form over function, or not!
 
The answer is in your question..

I want to launch a new site to try and sell myself
Click to expand...

Every brower on every comnputer, Or any machine that looks at the internet can see HTML old machines old computers. Blind readers..... everything

Not everyone can see flash for whatever reason.


So if you want to sell yourself then ask yerself....to everyone. or just the people that use flash ?


For the record I agree that flash sites look nicer than html sites for the most part... which is great if your just wanting to make a nice website.. but if your trying to sell yourself or more important trying to sell a product then sell it to EVERYONE!

just my opinion after nearly 20 yrs online :)
 
Raymond Lin said:
The people who oppose flash tends to be the ones who knows about computers, they can give you loads of reasons - back button does not work, webstats is just 1 page, can't link to specific photo, loading time, extra plugin.....to name a few

However the majority of people online don't really know much about computers wouldn't care if the site is designed well, especially clients (in my experience). Flash can have a bigger wow factor than a HTML site and i think ultimately that is where it lies.

Mine is flash btw www.raymondlin.net
Click to expand...

Nice site Raymond, is that one of the new BluDomain offerings?
 
KIPAX said:
Every brower on every comnputer, Or any machine that looks at the internet can see HTML old machines old computers. Blind readers..... everything

Not everyone can see flash for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

Yet I have not heard from any of my friends who tells me they can't see my site, even the most computer illiterate ones. Yes, even they have flash installed, and the people who can't see flash sites tends to be the ones who know what flash is a purposely not install flash plugins and actively refuse to look at flash sites.

Clients and joe public, do not have that mind set.

Hacker said:
Nice site Raymond, is that one of the new BluDomain offerings?
Click to expand...

Thanks, it's one of their newer ones yeah, limited edition to 100 in the world. :)
 
Flash is better for multimedia use or when vector graphics save some bandwidth, otherwise it's more limiting than useful.
Sure, you can create flashy sites using flash, but you have to omit some browser features (opening links in tabs, big chunks of history, bookmarking individual pages of the site, etc.) and it's not always possible to generate flash on the fly on the server. If you want to create some useful Flash apps, you'll very likely need some of the more expensive tools around.

Adobe has made a deal with Google and one other search engine company that should enable them to index flash sites, but I don't think there's been any news whether it's actually been implemented yet.
 
Why not embed a Flash gallery into an HTML site, that way all of your text/information is in HTML, but you can do slideshows etc with Flash for your images...
 
Craikeybaby said:
Why not embed a Flash gallery into an HTML site, that way all of your text/information is in HTML, but you can do slideshows etc with Flash for your images...
Click to expand...

A very sensible response, alot of people think this is a black and white debate and I don't agree. Flash is one of my least favourite things having worked IT support for a few years I've seen the headaches it causes, but it certainly has it's place on the web. I think a combination of the two is your best solution java where required for features you can't do in HTML and HTML for the basic site construction.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Clients and joe public, do not have that mind set.
Click to expand...

You missed my point... if you had a shop on the high street you wouldnt stop potential customers from coming in because they wore red shoes when everyone else wears black or brown..

A family website great... but if your trying to sell yourself (see OP) then sell yourself to EVERYONE. Thats my point..

Your family and friends not compalining they cant see your website isnt a good indication of how many customers a business might lose now is it ? :)

Again I like flash.. I think it looks great.. I wont use it on my website because I want to sleep well knowing that everyone with money in there pockets that comes to my website...can see it :)
 
KIPAX said:
You missed my point... if you had a shop on the high street you wouldnt stop potential customers from coming in because they wore red shoes when everyone else wears black or brown..

A family website great... but if your trying to sell yourself (see OP) then sell yourself to EVERYONE. Thats my point..

Your family and friends not compalining they cant see your website isnt a good indication of how many customers a business might lose now is it ? :)

Again I like flash.. I think it looks great.. I wont use it on my website because I want to sleep well knowing that everyone with money in there pockets that comes to my website...can see it :)
Click to expand...

My point is that everyone these days can see flash on their computer, even the most computer illiterate ones. My friends and family example is used to demostrate that I know not one that can't see my site and none of them are good with computers.

Or best of both worlds, this template is $100/£55 ish, Flash & HTML together.

http://www.blutemplates.com/photo28/
 
KIPAX said:
That is oh so wrong.. thats whats commonly termed as missinformation. Sorry but your way off there..
Click to expand...

I am saying that from experience, the people who doesn't have flash or unable to see it in my experience tends to be the ones that know what flash is and refuse to install the plugin.
 
You said everyone has flash... They dont.. and based on that I wouldnt use it for something like selling myself or pictures online as you might miss sales from the people who dont have it... It really is that simple.

Rather than go around in circles I will leave it at that :)
 
It is a difficult one, as has been pointed out, Flash is not universal, but it is certainly very widespread. You will however exclude some potential customers. In my opinion, with Photography, a good Flash website increases the chances of converting a potential customer, os overall you would have better sales.

After all you can get your message to everyone, getting it heard is another thing altogether!

Last site I built was a mainly a CMS (Joomla) but all the galleries were done in Flash. Mainly as it stops people downloading the images.
 
Janusian said:
It is a difficult one, as has been pointed out, Flash is not universal, but it is certainly very widespread. You will however exclude some potential customers. In my opinion, with Photography, a good Flash website increases the chances of converting a potential customer, os overall you would have better sales.
Click to expand...

In one paragraph you ahve said flash will exlude and lose you sales and it will generate sales.


OK are you suggesting that if I changed my website to flash I would sell more pictures ??

Janusian said:
but all the galleries were done in Flash. Mainly as it stops people downloading the images.
Click to expand...

hahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha
 
KIPAX said:
In one paragraph you ahve said flash will exlude and lose you sales and it will generate sales.
Click to expand...

No I suggested it would reduce the accessibility of your site, but increase the chances of converting traffic to sales.

KIPAX said:
OK are you suggesting that if I changed my website to flash I would sell more pictures ??
Click to expand...

I have no idea what your site is or does, it is not for everyone.


KIPAX said:
hahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha
Click to expand...

I am firmly with Raymond on this one. I am looking at something that will be available to most, and prevent most from downloading the photos. I know that you can get tools to extract the images - you could even screen grab, but then for Joe Average, when the right click option is gone, they give up.
 
petemc said:
Limited edition to 1 in the entire world. :p
Click to expand...

You too? I signed up for that deal, thought I was the only special one...:cuckoo:

My site is in HTML - because that's how I designed it (all my own work:thumbs:). Flash sites are very nice too, and if the occasion arises that I see a flash template I like, I'll consider going that way.

In this modern day and age, with most people on broadband, a flash site isn't the hindrance it used to be.
 
I'd go for HTML+CSS over Flash just from the usability aspect. You cant apply custom stylesheets to Flash, and it just takes a teeny edit to change your font/design/colours with CSS. Drop in a Flash gallery and you're good to go.
 
Raymond Lin said:
The people who oppose flash tends to be the ones who knows about computers, they can give you loads of reasons - back button does not work, webstats is just 1 page, can't link to specific photo, loading time, extra plugin.....to name a few

However the majority of people online don't really know much about computers wouldn't care if the site is designed well, especially clients (in my experience). Flash can have a bigger wow factor than a HTML site and i think ultimately that is where it lies.

Mine is flash btw www.raymondlin.net
Click to expand...

Everything you said about flash is wrong. No back button? swfaddress

No webstats? see swfaddress

can't link to a photo? see swfaddress

loading time? if it's well built then it shouldn't be any slower than a media heavy html equivalent.

Extra plugin? With a 98% uptake it's not going to be a problem.
 
Janusian said:
I am firmly with Raymond on this one. I am looking at something that will be available to most, and prevent most from downloading the photos. I know that you can get tools to extract the images - you could even screen grab, but then for Joe Average, when the right click option is gone, they give up.
Click to expand...

The people that want to steal your images, will. There's no getting away from it.
 
Sgt_Major said:
I dont like flash. There is little flash can do that a well built dhtml and xhtml site can't do.

Even html + php is better than flash in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Jebus.

This is a case of not knowing when to use a particular tool for one application and when to use another for a different application.

There is A LOT flash can do that dhtml(lol?) and xhtml can't do. In fact if you want rich media applications for the web then there is no contest. It just depends on what you want to do.

So much hate for flash. I could understand it maybe 5 years ago, but today? Flash has come a long way.
 
whiteflyer said:
Yes Flash can look great, but it does take time to load, and not everyone has broadband yet. Also I use firefox with an automatic flash blocker, so I don't see flash sites unless I really do want to.

So I'm the opposite of Ray and say html is the way to go IMHO.
Click to expand...

What extra content is a flash photography site going to need to load that a html photography site wont?

Automatic flash blocker? You must be an iPhone user.
 
KIPAX said:
That is oh so wrong.. thats whats commonly termed as missinformation. Sorry but your way off there..
Click to expand...

I'm with Kipax. If I visit a flash site then I see a blank screen. I'm not going to enable flash unless I know that there is something I need to see. There is very little that I need to see.
 
KayJay said:
Everything you said about flash is wrong. No back button? swfaddress

No webstats? see swfaddress

can't link to a photo? see swfaddress

loading time? if it's well built then it shouldn't be any slower than a media heavy html equivalent.

Extra plugin? With a 98% uptake it's not going to be a problem.
Click to expand...

Sigh, I am on your side ! I said THEY, as in people who doesn't like Flash will give you those reasons.

SIGH

Look at my website, its 100% flash, if i believe in those reasons i wouldn't be using Flash.

SIGH

Read the rest of the thread and my other posts

SIGH

:bang::bang::bang:
 
Raymond Lin said:
The people who oppose flash tends to be the ones who knows about computers, they can give you loads of reasons - back button does not work, webstats is just 1 page, can't link to specific photo, loading time, extra plugin.....to name a few

However the majority of people online don't really know much about computers wouldn't care if the site is designed well, especially clients (in my experience). Flash can have a bigger wow factor than a HTML site and i think ultimately that is where it lies.

Mine is flash btw www.raymondlin.net
Click to expand...


Its very nice!!

did you build this yourself?
 
Raymond Lin said:
Sigh, I am on your side ! I said THEY, as in people who doesn't like Flash will give you those reasons.

SIGH

Look at my website, its 100% flash, if i believe in those reasons i wouldn't be using Flash.

SIGH

Read the rest of the thread and my other posts

SIGH

:bang::bang::bang:
Click to expand...

Sorry I misread your post, but it's still relevant in addressing those complaints right?

Don't bang your head too much ;)
 
KayJay said:
Jebus.

This is a case of not knowing when to use a particular tool for one application and when to use another for a different application.

There is A LOT flash can do that dhtml(lol?) and xhtml can't do. In fact if you want rich media applications for the web then there is no contest. It just depends on what you want to do.

So much hate for flash. I could understand it maybe 5 years ago, but today? Flash has come a long way.
Click to expand...

When not aimed at Ray, this is a pertinent post.

Kipax, you represent the outdated flash haters perfectly. You've been banging the same drum for 5 years without bothering to check the enhancements and improvements which have been added to Flash 4,5,6,7,MX,8 and now CS4....
Pretty much all authoring systems/methods have a place in webdesign, and Flash has cemented it's place as the leader in multimedia rich content and over the years has ironed out almost all of the kinks we all hated when it first emerged.

Don't use it, don't bother looking at Flash websites, but for god sake don't argue about it's relevance or usefulness when you have such a limited understanding of it.

Who? (and Kipax).... I'm curious to understand why you block flash sites on a personal PC? In your iPhone fine, but are you still on Dial Up at home? If not, I don't get it...
 
neo2810 said:
Kipax, you represent the outdated flash haters perfectly.
Click to expand...

oh dear.. did we miss the bit where I said "I like flash.. I think it looks great"


neo2810 said:
Who? (and Kipax).... I'm curious to understand why you block flash sites
Click to expand...

Please show me where I have said I block flash sites?

If your going to have a pop then get your facts at least half right :(


the OP asked if flash was good for selling himself... I am of the opinion that if you want to sell yourself or a product then you should use something that everyone has access to and can/will see..

How is that hating flash?
 
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