Flashgun and flash head diffusers

Garry Edwards

Garry Edwards

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Are pretty useless indoors and totally pointless outdoors, This video may help to explain why
 
It drives me crazy too. I've given up trying to explain things to people who just won't listen due to their preconceived ideas. :headbang:

Don't get me started on sensor sizes and long lenses . . .
 
Sky said:
It drives me crazy too. I've given up trying to explain things to people who just won't listen due to their preconceived ideas. :headbang:

Don't get me started on sensor sizes and long lenses . . .
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I won't :exit:
 
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From what he is says is one reason why I use 2 flash guns. Just waiting for the second one to arrive today, then it is only down to power output of the flash controlled from the camera
 
I kike the tip regarding diffusion close to the subject, I always use the boring bounce off the ceiling/wall if speedlight is the only option.
 
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It would have been interesting if he had also shown the bounce and bounce with diffuser options, firstly to show that bounced is much softer than direct, but also to see if there is actually any advantage to using a diffuser when bouncing (I'm not sure - if it means the light is now bouncing off more surfaces, does it go too far, and just lead to flat light?)

The only suggestion I've seen on using those dome diffusers where they might be good is using a camera flashgun(with Fresnel lens) inside a softbox - where spreading the light from the flash makes it closer to a bare bulb effect, evening out the light from the softbox - can someone with more experience confirm (or dismiss) this?
 
Faldrax said:
The only suggestion I've seen on using those dome diffusers where they might be good is using a camera flashgun(with Fresnel lens) inside a softbox - where spreading the light from the flash makes it closer to a bare bulb effect, evening out the light from the softbox - can someone with more experience confirm (or dismiss) this?
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We used to have a very active and knowledgeable member here, HoppyUK, who wrote technical articles for photography magazines. He did a lot of testing and, from memory, found that using a diffuser on a hotshoe flashgun inside a softbox, umbrella or whatever not only levelled the playing field, creating much more consistent results regardless of the design/quality of the modifier, but also created much more even illumination on the front diffuser.

Back in the day, I did similar tests myself, and found that he was right. His tests were much more comprehensive than mine because they needed to be, my preferred option has always been to use studio flash instead of flashguns whenever possible, so I only half-did it:)
 
Sky said:
Don't get me started on sensor sizes and long lenses . . .
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If you're talking about the effect that 'crop' sensors have on the FOV - then there are circumstances where it is quite important to understand it.

Apart from that, regarding diffusion, I'm pretty much with Garry. It's basically wasting batteries on lighting clouds.
 
Sky said:
It drives me crazy too. I've given up trying to explain things to people who just won't listen due to their preconceived ideas. :headbang:

Don't get me started on sensor sizes and long lenses . . .
Click to expand...

How long is long ? How do you get the flash to reach out that far?
 
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Garry Edwards said:
We used to have a very active and knowledgeable member here, HoppyUK, who wrote technical articles for photography magazines. He did a lot of testing and, from memory, found that using a diffuser on a hotshoe flashgun inside a softbox, umbrella or whatever not only levelled the playing field, creating much more consistent results regardless of the design/quality of the modifier, but also created much more even illumination on the front diffuser.

Back in the day, I did similar tests myself, and found that he was right. His tests were much more comprehensive than mine because they needed to be, my preferred option has always been to use studio flash instead of flashguns whenever possible, so I only half-did it:)
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Totally agree with your comments, hot shoe & off camera (hammer head) flash guns typically use clear patterned diffuses to provide more even lighting with wider angle lenses.

LED lights are often quite directional, I can't understand why they use opaque diffusers which cut light output, rather than clear prismatic perspex, or similar.

Ian
 
Faldrax said:
The only suggestion I've seen on using those dome diffusers where they might be good is using a camera flashgun(with Fresnel lens) inside a softbox - where spreading the light from the flash makes it closer to a bare bulb effect, evening out the light from the softbox - can someone with more experience confirm (or dismiss) this?
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If you are talking about using a speedlight in a front firing softbox, then it is absolutely beneficial. In a rear firing softbox it is much less so.
 
sk66 said:
If you are talking about using a speedlight in a front firing softbox, then it is absolutely beneficial. In a rear firing softbox it is much less so.
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There are variables that can make big differences.

The starting point is that hotshoe flashguns are a bad choice for rear-fitting softboxes, simply because they have a tiny, harsh built-in reflector that stops the light from spreading out as it should.

Well-designed softboxes, made from good materials, do a sometimes adequate job of overcoming this limitation (as long as they aren't too big), partly because the rear diffuser is fairly distant from the light source, and partly because the rear diffuser (both diffusers in fact) are up to the job and diffuse the light well.

But the cheap ones tend to have a poor and small rear diffuser, far too close to the light source, the light only hits a small area and the poor diffusion doesn't spread the light enough, and none of the light bounces off of the walls of the softbox as it is designed to do.

And the world has changed, very few people now buy good softboxes, they go for the cheapest, and of course retailers stock what people buy, so few good ones are even available.

A diffuser on the light can't cure this problem, but it does spread the light much more effectively, and so some light bounces off of the softbox walls, as it should.
 
Faldrax said:
where spreading the light from the flash makes it closer to a bare bulb effect,
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To add to @Garry Edwards note re Hoppy, I think he ended up with a simple Stofen type diffuser with a piece of foil in the top and some of the long edges removed to mitigate the hot spot effect. I have considered trying it.
 
Phil V said:
To add to @Garry Edwards note re Hoppy, I think he ended up with a simple Stofen type diffuser with a piece of foil in the top and some of the long edges removed to mitigate the hot spot effect. I have considered trying it.
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You may be right, I can't remember the details.
What matters is that @HoppyUK (Richard Hopkins) did was to use a diffuser to spread the light within the softbox (or other modifier), which from memory also created a level playing field that allowed him to calculate the true power output (which is often very different from manufacturer claims about guide numbers). His approach worked.
 
Garry Edwards said:
You may be right, I can't remember the details.
What matters is that @HoppyUK (Richard Hopkins) did was to use a diffuser to spread the light within the softbox (or other modifier), which from memory also created a level playing field that allowed him to calculate the true power output (which is often very different from manufacturer claims about guide numbers). His approach worked.
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Here's the thread (or a thread from Hoppy on the subject anyway) https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/filling-a-softbox-with-a-speedlight.656033/
 
Good find, with very useful, detailed info. This post is typical of Richard, everything very carefully researched, very detailed and well-explained,

But it isn't the one I had in mind, I've been trying to find it without success. From memory, the one about creating a level playing field was much earlier,
 
I use flash with my original X100. It has a leaf shutter and can sync at high shutter speeds.
I use a simple Canon cord and a Godox V850 flash and either bounce of a white ceiling or use a simple bounce card.
All manual set up
 
Garry Edwards said:
Good find, with very useful, detailed info. This post is typical of Richard, everything very carefully researched, very detailed and well-explained,

But it isn't the one I had in mind, I've been trying to find it without success. From memory, the one about creating a level playing field was much earlier,
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It's not quite the one I remember either tbh. He does reference an earlier thread on that one but I don't think that one was it either.

For me, I've found those "Stofen" type boxes for the end of your speedlight don't make as much difference as you might think. Similarly, the results for the open bulb on the AD200 in a softbox are not really better than just jamming the Fresnel head in the back of the box as long as you have both diffusion layers in place. I don't take the open bulbs on location any longer, although they would give the option of using various metal reflectors (but I'm never going to carry those cross country on foot tbh)
 
Hmm. Wish I had seen this before i clicked buy! I have just ordered a Godox 1 Mid O flash with the X3-O trigger and AK-R1 accessory kit, to use with my OM Systems OM3 I was looking for a portable flash that I could use off camera for some portraits of family while on holiday ie early evening. @Garry Edwards should I be sending it back?
 
BlackDogPhoto said:
Hmm. Wish I had seen this before i clicked buy! I have just ordered a Godox 1 Mid O flash with the X3-O trigger and AK-R1 accessory kit, to use with my OM Systems OM3 I was looking for a portable flash that I could use off camera for some portraits of family while on holiday ie early evening. @Garry Edwards should I be sending it back?
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This thread is really about the hype surrounding flashgun diffusers and the ridiculous claims made about them,
I think that it all started years ago with an American gentleman who claimed to be one of the most successful wedding photographers, and the most expensive, in the world, and he told people that his magic bit of grossly overpriced plastic was the secret to his success. And, as always, a lot of people believed him, at which point he probably did become successful.

I doubt whether the AK-RI accessory kit is worth having, but at least it's cheap.

The flashgun that you've ordered is fine. I don't believe that it has any special qualities, and you should totally ignore any marketing BS about "beautiful soft light" but there's nothing wrong with the flashgun, so I can't think of any reason why you should return it.
 
Garry Edwards said:
This thread is really about the hype surrounding flashgun diffusers and the ridiculous claims made about them,
I think that it all started years ago with an American gentleman who claimed to be one of the most successful wedding photographers, and the most expensive, in the world, and he told people that his magic bit of grossly overpriced plastic was the secret to his success. And, as always, a lot of people believed him, at which point he probably did become successful.

I doubt whether the AK-RI accessory kit is worth having, but at least it's cheap.

The flashgun that you've ordered is fine. I don't believe that it has any special qualities, and you should totally ignore any marketing BS about "beautiful soft light" but there's nothing wrong with the flashgun, so I can't think of any reason why you should return it.
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Phew! My criteria was more around portability and ability to recharge and being compatible with my camera, like you said the kit was cheap (£35) so I wasn’t expecting great things, I’ll probably invest in a soft box in the future but it wouldn’t have been practical on holiday anyhow!

Thanks for the quick reply
 
Garry Edwards said:
This thread is really about the hype surrounding flashgun diffusers and the ridiculous claims made about them,
I think that it all started years ago with an American gentleman who claimed to be one of the most successful wedding photographers, and the most expensive, in the world, and he told people that his magic bit of grossly overpriced plastic was the secret to his success. And, as always, a lot of people believed him, at which point he probably did become successful.
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Gary Fong?

I seem to remember that it was pretty mush the same as putting a one litre (empty) milk carton on the end of your flash.
 
DemiLion said:
Gary Fong?

I seem to remember that it was pretty mush the same as putting a one litre (empty) milk carton on the end of your flash.
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I can't remember his name, either that or I don't want to be sued:)
 
I have one of those. Fiddly to put on and made little difference. It’s got a few years of dust on it now.
 
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