Focus on focus

Nikon_Nick said:
Im not sure what right you think you have to tell people how bad their shots are when (according to your post above) you have absolutely no idea how to take a sharp shot yourself.
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Nick, surely what you are suggesting defeats one of the main purposes of this site. As a community we are encouraged to give critique on shots posted. Something which at times doesn't happen enough. If I have to be a better photographer than the person I'm giving critique to then I may as well sign out now and never return.

Alastair said:
Whoever's having the laugh playing the troll, I think this is what will define the point everyone else stops even the pretence of going along with it..
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I think that point was passed some time ago :D

The whole thread comes across as a previous banned member rejoining for the sole purpose of trying to draw others in to their own demise.

@Gortch I apologise if that is not the case, it's just the way you are coming across.

If it is the case then well done :clap:
you certainly have ruffled some feathers.

A lot of what you have said is true and makes sense. A fair bit of what you have said is nonsense (in my opinion, which is the correct one) It's just a shame you choose to put it over in the style you do.

I'll be sad to see the end of this thread it has been most entertaining. But I fear that once you realise you are giving your work for free here you will withdraw as you did with Flickr. Hopefully this is not the case and you will stick around. Hopefully people won't take things you say so personally and be drawn in the way that some have.

Can't believe I've joined in! watching from the side lines these past few days, I have started typing a few times and then thought better of it.

Thanks to all for the entertainment these past few days.
 
@ Sunnyside up

I'm not arrogant and I don't have an alter ego. Listen, you seem like a smart enough person so I'll guess you have seen that half-reasonable movie The Deer Hunter. You remember they went hunting -- "one shot"? That's life. Looking at it like that there are three types of photographer: one who turns up to hunt deer with a pistol, one who gets the shakes when the deer is in his sights, and he who executes perfectly under pressure. In this last case, he has a profoud understanding that you get one shot at the deer, miss and it's off. Life is like that and so is photography. You get one shot.

We live in this digital age where people think they can just "undo" everything. Well you can't. You get one shot. Unless of course you want to talk about a chameleon that was basically nailed to a log. Ok there you have all the shots you want. What's the point though, it isn't real. Reality is defined by one shot. Things happen once, deal with it. Embrace it. You can't put your foot in the same river twice, no, you can't even put it in the same river once. One shot. if you get more than one shot, it probably isn't worth the effort.

Missing isn't a crime either. It happens. All we require is that you accept you missed when you did.

As for my brother and his daughter, I put my hands up and apologised. i failed him. Better that he goes around with a perfect memory of that moment though than let the memory be tainted by my ineptitude and poor photographs.
 
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Gortch said:
.

As for my brother and his daughter, I put my hands up and apologised. i failed him. Better that he goes around with a perfect memory of that moment though than let the memory be tainted by my ineptitude and poor photographs.
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Off the thread topic and strictly speaking as a mother, but you don't have kids, do you...

Regardless, you've made me chuckle this morning... Cheers dude.

I'm out. :)
 
Barrysprout said:
Nick, surely what you are suggesting defeats one of the main purposes of this site. As a community we are encouraged to give critique on shots posted. Something which at times doesn't happen enough. If I have to be a better photographer than the person I'm giving critique to then I may as well sign out now and never return.



I think that point was passed some time ago :D

The whole thread comes across as a previous banned member rejoining for the sole purpose of trying to draw others in to their own demise.

@Gortch I apologise if that is not the case, it's just the way you are coming across.

If it is the case then well done :clap:
you certainly have ruffled some feathers.

A lot of what you have said is true and makes sense. A fair bit of what you have said is nonsense (in my opinion, which is the correct one) It's just a shame you choose to put it over in the style you do.

I'll be sad to see the end of this thread it has been most entertaining. But I fear that once you realise you are giving your work for free here you will withdraw as you did with Flickr. Hopefully this is not the case and you will stick around. Hopefully people won't take things you say so personally and be drawn in the way that some have.

Can't believe I've joined in! watching from the side lines these past few days, I have started typing a few times and then thought better of it.

Thanks to all for the entertainment these past few days.
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Barry, I've never been here before. I actually can't believe people are even debating this -- it's lesson one, day one photography. Nothing I have said is in the least bit controversial. I actually don't even think anyone disagrees, they are just making a fuss because of my style or something. Well, I can't do much about that. I have a low opinion of mainstream everything. Guilty. I despise the undo culture where everything is disposable and worthless and the way the swinish multitude feed on things like they have some right of passage. They should learn things properly. Life isn't some app. You can keep your Garage Band and your history brushes.
 
Gortch said:
Barry, I've never been here before. I actually can't believe people are even debating this -- it's lesson one, day one photography. Nothing I have said is in the least bit controversial. I actually don't even think anyone disagrees, they are just making a fuss because of my style or something. Well, I can't do much about that. I have a low opinion of mainstream everything. Guilty. I despise the undo culture where everything is disposable and worthless and the way the swinish multitude feed on things like they have some right of passage. They should learn things properly. Life isn't some app. You can keep your Garage Band and your history brushes.
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Really? In that case maybe not everyone can improve in photography. That being the case, should they give up?
And that being the case.....................................:whistle:
 
Gortch said:
Exactly what my brother said when I refused to give him photos of his daughter taking her first steps. To be fair it was in McDonald's of all places, with low light and unpredictable movement -- inevitably they had some blur.

He was livid, just didn't get it. And neither do you. Shots of a toddler taking her first steps would ideally be in sharp focus; I doubt if anybody even here would disagree? I wasn't going for an arty stylistic snot in McDonald's, wasn't an option. So I deleted them. Why should I have poor quality blurry shots attributed to me? I took them, I have the right to define them as trash, and we all know where trash goes.

You get one chance with some things and if you fail you should face it like a man, even if you're a woman.
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LOL! That was comedy genius, almost spat my Cappuccino out over a little old lady!
 
Barrysprout said:
Really? In that case maybe not everyone can improve in photography. That being the case, should they give up?
And that being the case.....................................:whistle:
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And what excuse might your fictional person have for not being able to improve? You seem to hold "him" in lower esteem than I do with that nonsense. Of course they can improve. If you can think, you can improve. if you can read, it's easy.
 
Gortch said:
Exactly what my brother said when I refused to give him photos of his daughter taking her first steps. To be fair it was in McDonald's of all places, with low light and unpredictable movement -- inevitably they had some blur.

He was livid, just didn't get it. And neither do you. Shots of a toddler taking her first steps would ideally be in sharp focus; I doubt if anybody even here would disagree? I wasn't going for an arty stylistic snot in McDonald's, wasn't an option. So I deleted them. Why should I have poor quality blurry shots attributed to me? I took them, I have the right to define them as trash, and we all know where trash goes.

You get one chance with some things and if you fail you should face it like a man, even if you're a woman.
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Your knuckles must be getting sore by now, give it a rest.
 
Gortch said:
And what excuse might your fictional person have for not being able to improve? You seem to hold "him" in lower esteem than I do with that nonsense. Of course they can improve. If you can think, you can improve. if you can read, it's easy.
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Did you read my post? :rolleyes:
 
Barrysprout said:
Nick, surely what you are suggesting defeats one of the main purposes of this site. As a community we are encouraged to give critique on shots posted. Something which at times doesn't happen enough. If I have to be a better photographer than the person I'm giving critique to then I may as well sign out now and never return.
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Im not saying that the person giving critique should be better than the person they are critiquing. But someone who has expressed their views so strongly (basically saying that 50 to 60% of people on here are crap), should perhaps be able to back up what he is saying with examples...all to help us in the learning process, of course.
 
Nikon_Nick said:
Im not saying that the person giving critique should be better than the person they are critiquing. But someone who has expressed their views so strongly (basically saying that 50 to 60% of people on here are crap), should perhaps be able to back up what he is saying with examples...all to help us in the learning process, of course.
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I still disagree with that, and have to defend his right to express an opinion.

I used to give a fair bit of crit on this site when I was part of the 52 challenge. It never felt comfortable to give critique when I knew my own shots were poor. That doesn't mean I was wrong about what I was saying though.
It's also one of the reasons I don't comment very often on images now.

I watched a film last week and thought it was very poor. Could I have done better? No. Does that mean the film was good?
 
So the dude speaks his mind....... I can think of a fair few others here that do exactly that too.... Blunt.. To the point.. Etc etc... Not quite sure why this one should be any more of a problem?

Chill peeps :D
 
Cg_Girl said:
So the dude speaks his mind....... I can think of a fair few others here that do exactly that too.... Blunt.. To the point.. Etc etc...

Chill peeps :D
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Who, name and shame?

Oh, by the way, one package is now heading your way;)
 
nah mate you've missed the focus on the back half - should have used a deeper DOf or focus stacked - this isnt of acceptable quality, you should be ashamed , etc [/tongue in cheek]

which illustrates that whether something is succesful is subjective - it depends what you are trying to acheive.
 
if bad "photographers" are capable of learning how to put their copyright, watermark, and name on to their images (I will refrain from calling them photographs), and they nearly all are it seems, why can't they learn about exposure, DOF, aperture, focus, ISO, etc?
 
Barrysprout said:
Nick, surely what you are suggesting defeats one of the main purposes of this site. As a community we are encouraged to give critique on shots posted. Something which at times doesn't happen enough. If I have to be a better photographer than the person I'm giving critique to then I may as well sign out now and never return.
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The point about crit though is its supposed to be useful and constructive - just repeating thats oof over and over is neither (especially when the critiquer is wrong) - If i were giving crit on a shot where the focus is less than perfect i would try to ascertain why that was the case, and if appropriate help the poster to understand how to acheive a better focussed shot next time ..thats what the site is supposed to be about
 
Gortch said:
if bad "photographers" are capable of learning how to put their copyright, watermark, and name on to their images (I will refrain from calling them photographs), and they nearly all are it seems, why can't they learn about exposure, DOF, aperture, focus, ISO, etc?
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And why are you qualified to state definitively that they don't /aren't

I wouldn't call a fellow member a bad photographer based on a few images as that is insulting, rude, and unhelpful. (and massivly egotistical) - even good photographers take bad photos sometimes, so why not lose the chip on the shoulder and actually give helpful crit instead of coming accross like a playground bully
 
Barrysprout said:
I still disagree with that, and have to defend his right to express an opinion.

I used to give a fair bit of crit on this site when I was part of the 52 challenge. It never felt comfortable to give critique when I knew my own shots were poor. That doesn't mean I was wrong about what I was saying though.
It's also one of the reasons I don't comment very often on images now.

I watched a film last week and thought it was very poor. Could I have done better? No. Does that mean the film was good?
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I agree with you that he has the right to an opinion (just like everyone else). I think the problem for me is that he has joined the site, and pretty much told everyone that they are wrong, their opinion is wrong, their photos are crap etc. I do wonder why he joined the site in the first place though. It obviously wasnt to interact in a pleasent/friendly manner. It is obvious that all of this is a lot of fun for him, so well done to him for successfully pi$$ing off a large amount of people, as that was probably his intention in the first place.

SOME of what he has said re: critical focus is correct, but the way he has attacked people on here isnt really acceptable.
 
Cg_Girl said:
So the dude speaks his mind....... I can think of a fair few others here that do exactly that too.... Blunt.. To the point.. Etc etc... Not quite sure why this one should be any more of a problem?

Chill peeps :D
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I don't think he's speaking his mind though. He's simply writing a script and adjusting it en route as he sees the steam erupting from folks ears.

The real entertainment is watching people hand feed him oxygen.

I'm off work sick....it's keeping me amused :LOL:
 
Gortch said:
. Looking at it like that there are three types of photographer: one who turns up to hunt deer with a pistol, one who gets the shakes when the deer is in his sights, and he who executes perfectly under pressure. I .
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There is a however a fourth type of photography forum member - the one thats never shot a deer in his life, isnt sure how the gun works or which end the bullet comes out of, but spends a lot of time on the internet saying "you shouldn't have done it like that.. oh no, listen to me i'm the expert - anyone who disagrees with me is wrong"
 
big soft moose said:
The point about crit though is its supposed to be useful and constructive - just repeating thats oof over and over is neither (especially when the critiquer is wrong) - If i were giving crit on a shot where the focus is less than perfect i would try to ascertain why that was the case, and if appropriate help the poster to understand how to acheive a better focussed shot next time ..thats what the site is supposed to be about
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Yes I entirely agree with you, my point was maybe poorly put across.
What I was trying to say was that this is not a crit thread and taking things close to a personal level by asking for photos to back up a point is wrong. As it would be if Gortch gave constructive crit in an appropriate thread.

Nikon_Nick said:
I agree with you that he has the right to an opinion (just like everyone else). I think the problem for me is that he has joined the site, and pretty much told everyone that they are wrong, their opinion is wrong, their photos are crap etc. I do wonder why he joined the site in the first place though. It obviously wasnt to interact in a pleasent/friendly manner. It is obvious that all of this is a lot of fun for him, so well done to him for successfully pi$$ing off a large amount of people, as that was probably his intention in the first place.

SOME of what he has said re: critical focus is correct, but the way he has attacked people on here isnt really acceptable.
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Yes it's definitely coming across as a mission based thread.

However, judging by his last post he is seems to be saying that people can learn and adapt, so perhaps he will revise his view that there is nothing much he can do about his style and will make efforts to address that.
 
viv1969 said:
I don't think he's speaking his mind though. He's simply writing a script and adjusting it en route as he sees the steam erupting from folks ears.

The real entertainment is watching people hand feed him oxygen.

I'm off work sick....it's keeping me amused :LOL:
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GWS, Ruth.
 
Barrysprout said:
taking things close to a personal level by asking for photos to back up a point is wrong. .
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Thats true - you don't have to be a great photographer to be a great critic - however if you are going to attack other photographers and say crap like " I can't even call that a photograph" you've got to expect someone to say "so can you do better hot shot ? " - and if the answer is no, then people are pretty much bound to take what you say after that with a pinch of salt.

If you arent a - for example macro - photographer then its still perfectly legitimate to say what you like and don't like about a macro shot, but when you start trying to make technical judgements about things you don't understand, you're going to lose credibility and start sounding like a troll regardless of whether that was the original intention
 
I think the gist of this thread is "The chap (Gortch) has got a point, but seems to be unable to refrain from being a massive trumpet about it."

big soft moose said:
Thats true - you don't have to be a great photographer to be a great critic - however if you are going to attack other photographers and say crap like "I can't even call that a photograph" you've got to expect someone to say "so can you do better hot shot ?" - and if the answer is no, then people are pretty much bound to take what you say after that with a pinch of salt.

If you arent a - for example macro - photographer then its still perfectly legitimate to say what you like and don't like about a macro shot, but when you start trying to make technical judgements about things you don't understand, you're going to lose credibility and start sounding like a troll regardless of whether that was the original intention
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Nailed it.
 
big soft moose said:
And why are you qualified to state definitively that they don't /aren't

I wouldn't call a fellow member a bad photographer based on a few images as that is insulting, rude, and unhelpful. (and massivly egotistical) - even good photographers take bad photos sometimes, so why not lose the chip on the shoulder and actually give helpful crit instead of coming accross like a playground bully
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If only you could read as well as you preached. I actually argued just minutes ago that bad photographers are able to learn. It seems the real snobs on here are those who insinuate that bad photographers are not able to improve and I am actually the one who is saying "yes they can" -- I hate to repeat myself but, as I said earlier, if they can think, they can learn. Stop encouraging them to be inept failures.

It isn't rude to criticise a photograph when it fails any more than it is rude to criticise someone who eats junk food and is grossly overweight. What's important is that they face up to the errors they have made and learn from them. Telling people that being OOF is great and not to worry about it, or telling someone that's 35 stone everything is fine, is the road to ruination. It's patronising too and demeaning. Maybe you sell cameras or junk food for a living in which case it might be understandable to take your position, but it wouldn't be any more acceptable from my neutral and objective perspective.
 
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viv1969 said:
I don't think he's speaking his mind though. He's simply writing a script and adjusting it en route as he sees the steam erupting from folks ears.
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;)
 
Gortch said:

so simple by Gortch on Talk Photography
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Why did you download that image, then add it to your gallery, rather than link it to the website it came from?
http://www.camerarepair.org/2012/04/focal-and-optical-blur/

Focal Blur
You may not realize it, but almost every image has some degree of focal blur. It’s the easiest to spot because it looks exactly how our eyes interpret objects out of focus; it is also the perfect example of Type 1 quality. Objects farther from the point of focus increasingly lose more detail and appear “softer”. What differentiates focal blur from other types of blur is how the edges of objects become undefined in a uniform way. Like all types of blur, however, each problem related to this blur effect can have many different causes.
missed_focus.png

The most common problem is missing focus, wherein there is a failure to hit the desired focal point. It is usually detected when using a “fast” lens with lower aperture capabilities, i.e. f/2.8 or smaller, while shooting handheld and opened up all the way. If you ask a camera repair technician, you’ll learn that you’re experiencing front or back focus, depending on which direction your lens is malfunctioning. A controlled environment is the ONLY way to properly detect if it is an equipment malfunction. Shooting at f/2.8 (or lower) has such a shallow depth-of-field, it only takes the minutest of motion from either the photographer and/or their subject to cause missed focus. On a positive note, however, some photographers intentionally front or back focus in order to use the focal blur to soften certain unflattering parts of their subjects.



Camera Repair & Blurry Pictures. 2014. Camera Repair & Blurry Pictures. [ONLINE] Available at: http://www.camerarepair.org/2012/04/focal-and-optical-blur/. [Accessed 31 March 2014].
 
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You mean he's lifted photos from someone else and is trying to pass them off as his own? If the graphic design industry is using people so unaware of copyright laws, it's no wonder people's shots get misappropriated!
 
Gortch said:
If only you could read as well as you preached. I actually argued just minutes ago that bad photographers are able to learn. It seems the real snobs on here are those who insinuate that bad photographers are not able to improve and I am actually the one who is saying "yes they can" -- I hate to repeat myself but, as I said earlier, if they can think, they can learn. Stop encouraging them to be inept failures.

It isn't rude to criticise a photograph when it fails any more than it is rude to criticise someone who eats junk food and is grossly overweight. What's important is that they face up to the errors they have made and learn from them. Telling people that being OOF is great and not to worry about it, or telling someone that's 35 stone everything is fine, is the road to ruination. It's patronising too and demeaning. Maybe you sell cameras or junk food for a living in which case it might be understandable to take your position, but it wouldn't be any more acceptable from my neutral and objective perspective.
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Of course a bad photographer can learn/ so can good ones - no one is perfect (even you !)

It isn't rude to constructively criticise someones photo when it fails - it is incredibly rude to brand them as an 'inept failure' because in your opinion their shot is a tad out of focus

If I say " that shot is a bit out of focus , you need to use a tripod / use a faster shutter/ use a smaller apperture / make sure the camera is focussing on the eyes / whatever - you can do this by x, y, z - then thats helpful constructive advice that most people will listen to "

If i say " that photo is crap, you've missed the focal point, you must be an inept failure because i don't like you work" - then that's rude, arrogant, and patronising and no one is going to learn anything because they aren't going to listen to whatever sensible advice you might have (if any) when you start like that
 
Nod said:
You mean he's lifted photos from someone else and is trying to pass them off as his own? If the graphic design industry is using people so unaware of copyright laws, it's no wonder people's shots get misappropriated!
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What pictures are you accusing me of stealing?
 
big soft moose said:
Of course a bad photographer can learn/ so can good ones - no one is perfect (even you !)

It isn't rude to constructively criticise someones photo when it fails - it is incredibly rude to brand them as an 'inept failure' because in your opinion their shot is a tad out of focus

If I say " that shot is a bit out of focus , you need to use a tripod / use a faster shutter/ use a smaller apperture / make sure the camera is focussing on the eyes / whatever - you can do this by x, y, z - then thats helpful constructive advice that most people will listen to "

If i say " that photo is crap, you've missed the focal point, you must be an inept failure because i don't like you work" - then that's rude, arrogant, and patronising and no one is going to learn anything because they aren't going to listen to whatever sensible advice you might have (if any) when you start like that
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Ok so you agree that crap photos are unacceptable. What is all the fuss?
 
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