Focusing Problem - Nikon

[Gremlin]

Ok something that is really starting to bug me.

I mainly use a D300 with a 70-200 2.8, but is there anyway to avoid this happening

As you can see the focus is on the water drops rather then the grebe :bang: previous shot of the bird was perfectly focused.
Had it happen when panning birds through trees, I get a series of bird/tree/bird/tree.
Most of the time for wildife I use single point/continuous AF
Any ideas much appreciated

 

[ruvor]

what is your CSM-a4 set to?

 

[arclight]

Delve into the menu and decouple the focussing from the shutter release button. Then use the AF-ON button to focus. That makes it easier to focus on where you want then recompose/meter/release the shutter.

 

[Gremlin]

what is your CSM-a4 set to?

Normal

Delve into the menu and decouple the focussing from the shutter release button. Then use the AF-ON button to focus. That makes it easier to focus on where you want then recompose/meter/release the shutter.

Tried that and really can't get on with it, to lock focus I use the buttons at the front of the lens but on live moving objects it's not always possible

 

[Martyn...]

Tried that and really can't get on with it,

It can be tricky to get used to this, but it is really worth sticking with as it is by far the best way ... no more refocusing on that branch just behind or in front of the bird when you hit the shutter button.

 

[arclight]

It can be tricky to get used to this, but it is really worth sticking with as it is by far the best way ... no more refocusing on that branch just behind or in front of the bird when you hit the shutter button.

Yes, awkward at first, but soon becomes second nature.

 

[Gremlin]

Don't know how familiar you are with the 70-200 2.8 VR 1 but that is what the 3 buttons on the front of the lens do, hold the focus, invaluable for still subjects hidden behind branches or wire in zoos etc.
The problem comes when you have a moving object that needs continuous focus and suddenly you are focusing on a drop of water.

 

[HoppyUK]

What was your shutter speed there? There's a lot of subject movement/blur.

Edit: and the water looks sharp-ish suggesting the zone of sharpness should cover the bird?

 

[trencheel303]

Yes, awkward at first, but soon becomes second nature.

I agree with this! I read about AF-ON and the equivalent 'rear focus button' on Canons and was eager to try it knowing that mine had the function. I've never gone back! I now can't imagine going back to my shutter button focus, which combines three functions - shooting, focussing and exposure lock

 

[Gremlin]

What was your shutter speed there? There's a lot of subject movement/blur.

Edit: and the water looks sharp-ish suggesting the zone of sharpness should cover the bird?

1/500 @ f10 which should give a reasonable depth of field, and the lens was resting on the hide so hopefully rules out camera shake :shrug:
I do wonder whether it's to do with how fast the lens focuses, but I can't remember having such a noticeble problem on the D200

 

[HoppyUK]

1/500 @ f10 which should give a reasonable depth of field, and the lens was resting on the hide so hopefully rules out camera shake :shrug:
I do wonder whether it's to do with how fast the lens focuses, but I can't remember having such a noticeble problem on the D200

Hmm. If you'd used 1/200sec, I would have said it's probably subject movement, but 1/500sec is a decent speed. However, we don't know how fast the bird was moving, or if it was shaking or whatever.

Birds do move/twitch/quivver very fast indeed and the problem I have with the focusing theory is that there appears to be enough depth of field visible on the water to cover the bird. And the blurring of the bird doesn't 'look' like it's just OOF, some parts are sharper than others.

So just taking those things on board, I would hesitate before concluding that it's a focusing issue, or at least not simply that. Very hard to draw conclusions from just one image. Got any more?

 

[fracster]

Strange one this, the shutter speed has frozen the water so, I would think, should have frozen the bird. Plenty of DOF at F10 as well.............

I `m surprised it focused on the water rather than the bird. Not much help really,sorry. Intrigued to see what the answer is though.

 

[HoppyUK]

Strange one this, the shutter speed has frozen the water so, I would think, should have frozen the bird. Plenty of DOF at F10 as well.............

I `m surprised it focused on the water rather than the bird. Not much help really,sorry. Intrigued to see what the answer is though.

It is strange isn't it On the droplets, you could argue that it doesn't take a very high shutter speed to freeze movement going towards the camera. Or that birds just twitch faster :shrug:

At the end of the day, if it's just a focus thing then a bit of AF technique/settings will sort it

 

[fracster]

Thinking out loud here, dangerous I know......., could the autofocus work that well that it has picked the water up as it moving slightly later than the bird?

 

[HoppyUK]

Thinking out loud here, dangerous I know......., could the autofocus work that well that it has picked the water up as it moving slightly later than the bird?

The AF could have done all sorts of things, and very quickly, but it's set and locked the moment the shutter opens.

The thing that keeps drawing me away from the focus thing is the fact that, it appears to me, the water around the bird is sharp. If that is indeed the case (is it?) then it's not a focus problem.

Subject movement would be the obvious answer (and I'm still verging on that conclusion) but at 1/500sec?

V confusing image!

 

[Jim B]

A simple case of not a high enough shutter speed, surely? I think you were right in your original assumption Richard.1/500th was quick enough to freeze the water droplets, but not sufficiently quick to freeze the movement of the bird. The focus or sharp zone is around the bird, its just motion blur especially noticeable on the beak and the feathers on the top of its back.

 

[HoppyUK]

A simple case of not a high enough shutter speed, surely? I think you were right in your original assumption Richard.1/500th was quick enough to freeze the water droplets, but not sufficiently quick to freeze the movement of the bird. The focus or sharp zone is around the bird, its just motion blur especially noticeable on the beak and the feathers on the top of its back.

 

[awp]

I think your focus is fine too - it's subjecy movement. Have you tried 51pt 3D focus on subjects like this?

 

[Tobers]

It's a shutter speed issue - too low causing motion blur as the bird shakes the water off itself. Try for 1/1000th instead.

 

[Hertsman]

Delve into the menu and decouple the focussing from the shutter release button. Then use the AF-ON button to focus. That makes it easier to focus on where you want then recompose/meter/release the shutter.

When using this method, at what point does the camera set exposure ?

 

[Gremlin]

I think your focus is fine too - it's subjecy movement. Have you tried 51pt 3D focus on subjects like this?

Once those moving red squares drove me nuts


To answer some of the other questions, the bird had been swimming along and I was panning it, then it just leapt forward, it wasn't actually shaking itself, this was a grab shot admittedly not much time to think.
The autofocus does work well and fast, I've lost count of the blurred shots I've had through moving the lens slightly as I press the shutter and focus has shifted to a twig/blade of grass, hence being pretty good with those 3 front buttons.
Got the week so will have to go out and try again with faster speeds.
Thanks for all your replies, still interested to see any further ideas

 

[awp]

I'd try the 51pt 3D again - it really works well and gives you the confidence to see the focus in action. Once locked on it sticks to the subject like glue and your keeper rate will go up.

 

[Flossyrockstar]

Birds do move/twitch/quivver very fast indeed and the problem I have with the focusing theory is that there appears to be enough depth of field visible on the water to cover the bird. And the blurring of the bird doesn't 'look' like it's just OOF, some parts are sharper than others.

I disagree the water droplets are in focus where non of the bird is.
Can you slow the AF speed down on a nikon like you can on a canon, that would help a bit.

 

[awp]

The water is in focus in front of and behind the bird - so the problem is not focus - it is definately subject movement!

 

[Flossyrockstar]

The water is in focus in front of and behind the bird - so the problem is not focus - it is definately subject movement!

Dya think, look at the water above the nape of the neck of the bird, that looks OOF to me. :shrug:

 

[18-270]

I have had the same issue and overcame it with CSM-a4 set to long and for birds keep the focus points with CSM-a8 to AF11 to reduce the intrusion of other objects in the focal width of AF51 Hope that helps you too!

 

[awp]

Dya think, look at the water above the nape of the neck of the bird, that looks OOF to me. :shrug:

you're right - but that's several feet behind the bird! Look at the water under the bird.

 

[fracster]

I'd try the 51pt 3D again - it really works well and gives you the confidence to see the focus in action. Once locked on it sticks to the subject like glue and your keeper rate will go up.

Do you really rate that Andrew? I tried it for a while and could not get along with it at all,maybe worth trying again and persevering with...........:shrug:

 

[arclight]

Quote:
Originally Posted by arclight View Post
Delve into the menu and decouple the focussing from the shutter release button. Then use the AF-ON button to focus. That makes it easier to focus on where you want then recompose/meter/release the shutter.
Hertsman wrote:- When using this method, at what point does the camera set exposure ?

Shutter release depressed half way (except if you were in fully manual mode).

Controlling the focus solely by means of the AF-ON button does not change how the camera handles exposure, Mark.

 

[awp]

Do you really rate that Andrew? I tried it for a while and could not get along with it at all,maybe worth trying again and persevering with...........:shrug:

Honestly I use it almost all of the time - for everything - from static to fast action sport. You really know you have focus locked on. Also easy to get the focus point exactly where you want it - focus where you need to then move the camera to re-frame and the focus point stays where you want it - and tracks as the subject moves around the frame too.

 

[Martyn...]

Shutter release depressed half way (except if you were in fully manual mode).

Controlling the focus solely by means of the AF-ON button does not change how the camera handles exposure, Mark.

I am sure it starts metering as soon as I press the AF-ON button also.

 

[Jim B]

I'd try the 51pt 3D again - it really works well and gives you the confidence to see the focus in action. Once locked on it sticks to the subject like glue and your keeper rate will go up.

Do you really rate that Andrew? I tried it for a while and could not get along with it at all,maybe worth trying again and persevering with...........:shrug:

It didn't work for me, the focus point didn't stay on the subject, it just jumped all over the place. :shrug:

 

[King of Groove]

What ISO were you using o groovy Ingrid?!

 

[Gremlin]

It didn't work for me, the focus point didn't stay on the subject, it just jumped all over the place. :shrug:

Glad you said that, it happened the same to me, drove me nuts

What ISO were you using o groovy Ingrid?!

Clive, ISO400

 

[awp]

It didn't work for me, the focus point didn't stay on the subject, it just jumped all over the place. :shrug:

What kind of subjects? I used this when I had the D300 and always since the D3 - it just works. Honestly - and it is so re-assuring to see where that focus point is when you shoot. the default for me is the centre point and I line that up with what I want the focus to be on - a face - or whatever - then move the camera to frame properly and the focus point just stays with the part of the subject I put it on - brilliant. single - 9 - 21 - all work as well but are 'blind' to the photographer - I like the reassurance of seeing where the focus is.

 

[Shorty]

I'd try the 51pt 3D again - it really works well and gives you the confidence to see the focus in action. Once locked on it sticks to the subject like glue and your keeper rate will go up.

I've unfortunatley never had it work like this. It either freezes a little, or even when not moving will jump from a dog's face to a dog's knee or something ridiculous. I really don't get it - but have tried it a good few times to see if it was just that particular situation.
Alas no

 

[Jim B]

What kind of subjects?

Rally cars. Moving towards and away from the camera at the same time moving from left to right or vice versa, it just doesn't work. I have a feeling that it might work better when shooting when shooting side on and the car is travelling in a more consistent horizontal direction? :shrug:

I've tried it with a static subject, (woodpecker on the bird table) and moved the camera around to how I wanted to compose the shot, and it worked spot on. Its just (fast?) moving subjects it has a problem with...

 

[18-270]

Rally cars. Moving towards and away from the camera at the same time moving from left to right or vice versa, it just doesn't work. I have a feeling that it might work better when shooting when shooting side on and the car is travelling in a more consistent horizontal direction? :shrug:

I've tried it with a static subject, (woodpecker on the bird table) and moved the camera around to how I wanted to compose the shot, and it worked spot on. Its just (fast?) moving subjects it has a problem with...

Did you try moving the focus change to long and reducing the focus area?

 

[awp]

I haven't tried rally cars - but cycle races - 10k races - rugby - portraits - general press shots - and all work well.

 

[Gremlin]

Quick question for those that use the AF-ON button, do you use your thumbs to operate it ?
Reason I ask is how do you change focus point, metering mode and focus mode on the rear of the camera at the same time, does it still hold focus till you press again ?