Food banks - your views

[yorkshirechap]

Whilst I think most people would agree that the very existence of food banks is a shameful reflection on the financial imbalance of our country, they also provide an important service, particularly in deprived areas.

I am interested in general discussion on the subject. For example, would you consider a donation or perhaps you already do, how is your local foodbank run, do you think they are fair in their distributions, and so on? Maybe you disagree with their existence entirely?

If anyone has made use of one themselves, it would be interesting to hear whether or not you felt like it genuinely helped you, and in the right way.

I did not start this thread for any particular reason other than general interest. I am not tied to any charity or food bank except as a donor.

 

[Steve Smith]

I have donated and I think it's outrageous that a society exists where they are necessary.

The differences between the richest and poorest in society is far too large. It's no better than in mediaeval times with serfs and lords.


Steve.

 

[nilagin]

I'm intrigued to know how they are run. How do people prove they are in need of donated food. Call me cynical but what is to stop someone from abusing it by getting food from a foodbank so they can waste their own money on booze, fags or drugs.

 

[tijuana taxi]

I believe that a potential recipient needs a referral from social services, gp etc and they can only receive three food packages a year.
Shameful that we need such things and yes I always donate when my local supermarket partakes.

As an aside I would volunteer to assist now that I am retired, but it is run by the local church groups and they are not keen on non believers (feeling I got when I enquired) Shame really that you can't help such a good cause with out being a christian

 

[ViciC]

I'm quite piddled off with our three nearest tesco stores, as they have cages for you to donate food in to go to our local food bank. I have just found out that it goes to one nearly 50 miles away. Our local one is either two or five miles away (depending on which store you're in as they're in different towns if you know what I mean).

My mum used to give something every week, but now she knows that she will not and will start giving directly to the one two miles away.

 

[Julie1979]

Being honest, it's not something I contribute to with the exception of taking some un-opened baby weaning pouches to a food bank drop at Tesco.

I do my bit in other ways. My christmas card money went to the hospice that cared for my 39 year old cousin before she passed away earlier this year and a few times a year I gather the left overs from making kids clothes to make wiggle bags for children with cancer and baby blankets for babies that came too soon.

I feel that charity donation, whether it be monetary or skill based, is led by your life experience. I'm fortunate enough to not require a food bank so other issues are my priority.

 

[tijuana taxi]

Bit confused by that last sentence Julie, can't really see what you mean

I live about as far from the sea as you can in the UK, but still give to the RNLI

Not a criticism, just don't understand your reasoning?

 

[Julie1979]

Bit confused by that last sentence Julie, can't really see what you mean

I live about as far from the sea as you can in the UK, but still give to the RNLI

Not a criticism, just don't understand your reasoning?

Just my view. I can't give to everyone so I give to charity that i've had dealings with in the past. i.e children's cancer and stillbirth.

 

[Julie1979]

Bit confused by that last sentence Julie, can't really see what you mean

I live about as far from the sea as you can in the UK, but still give to the RNLI

Not a criticism, just don't understand your reasoning?

I also don't live near the sea but I always put some cash in the Fisherman's Mission box when I have a chippie tea. They stepped up on a particularly horrific day when I was an admin girl for a fish farm company.

 

[MWHCVT]

I think that they provide a good service to those that genuinely need it, but as I touched upon in a recent thread where poverty in the UK was briefly raised, it's my belief that a lot of the need comes from very poor money management...

I'm forever greatful I was raised in a resonably well off (not mega rich) household where I didn't really want for anything and that we always had money if it were needed...my parents ran their own company and it was moderately successful in its time, but what was installed in me from a very young age was to be generous with my charity when I can but also to look after and save where ever I can...I've had a savings account since I was 5 okay from 5-15 it was just a post office account but it was always my own money, that I saved from doing chores, jobs and presents (birthday/Xmas) from a young age in the school holidays I'd go to work with my dad, okay so I was probably given token jobs in the early years but by 13 it would actually be doing real work in the holidays...

By the time I was 15 I was able to buy my first car, that I then saved further to both have work done one it prior to learning to drive, plus I'd saved for insurance (well part) and for driving lessons...

I guess getting back to my point, if many considered in poverty were taught better money management they might not find themselfs in need of food banks...at lot of people that are on limited means often you'll find have expenses in their lives that strictly are not needed to get by in life

 

[ViciC]

I think common sense and having a sense of what is "needed" in life is also something that should be taught as well tbh. A friend of mine whose church helps to run a food bank sees people going in there smoking, and he knows they smoke 20+ a day and have things like sky tv at home, the latest phone etc.

Tell me, which one of those do you need, in comparison to food? I think the system should be changed. If you think you can afford sky, cigarettes and that iphone 6 contract, then you can afford that food from a shop, instead of getting it from the food bank...

 

[Dave *]

I guess getting back to my point, if many considered in poverty were taught better money management they might not find themselfs in need of food banks...at lot of people that are on limited means often you'll find have expenses in their lives that strictly are not needed to get by in life

It's not that simple Matt, the price of everything has gone up, the amount in benefits has actually gone down with inflation. A single young adult gets £57 a week (over 25 gets £72), a couple gets either £72 or £113 depending on age. From that money they are expected to pay a portion of Council Tax, depending on the property they have they could be expected to pay Bedroom Tax, if so, that's around £17 a week, add gas and electricity on and the person getting the lowest rate suddenly doesn't have much money for food (money management doesn't work when there is very little money to manage).

The can't just turn up at a Food Bank either, the referral is made by the JC, Social Services, an NGO or a GP, it really is a choice of 'heat or eat' for a lot of young people. The current governments policies are making things worse, not bettter.

For a lot of the youngsters trying to get off JSA the only choice is a zero hour contract, and then things get even worse, suddenly they also need to find rent and full Council Tax and then it rapidly spirals out of control and it turns into no heat or eat without charities like Trussell stepping in. It's no wonder that many people stay with the lesser evil of being on benefits rather than the gamble of getting a full weeks work with a zero hour contract (I've seen staff get 4 hours a week on these, shop is quiet, send them home on no pay).

Hopefully we will see a change of government and a change of priority next year which would see more youngsters going into real jobs that lift them out of the poverty level they are trapped in.

 

[nilagin]

It's not that simple Matt, the price of everything has gone up, the amount in benefits has actually gone down with inflation. A single young adult gets £57 a week (over 25 gets £72), a couple gets either £72 or £113 depending on age. From that money they are expected to pay a portion of Council Tax, depending on the property they have they could be expected to pay Bedroom Tax, if so, that's around £17 a week, add gas and electricity on and the person getting the lowest rate suddenly doesn't have much money for food (money management doesn't work when there is very little money to manage).

The can't just turn up at a Food Bank either, the referral is made by the JC, Social Services, an NGO or a GP, it really is a choice of 'heat or eat' for a lot of young people. The current governments policies are making things worse, not bettter.

For a lot of the youngsters trying to get off JSA the only choice is a zero hour contract, and then things get even worse, suddenly they also need to find rent and full Council Tax and then it rapidly spirals out of control and it turns into no heat or eat without charities like Trussell stepping in. It's no wonder that many people stay with the lesser evil of being on benefits rather than the gamble of getting a full weeks work with a zero hour contract (I've seen staff get 4 hours a week on these, shop is quiet, send them home on no pay).

Hopefully we will see a change of government and a change of priority next year which would see more youngsters going into real jobs that lift them out of the poverty level they are trapped in.

I'd be more interested into why they are trying to run a home of their own and not living with their parents, their money would go a darn site further then.

 

[boyfalldown]

I have donated and I think it's outrageous that a society exists where they are necessary.

The differences between the richest and poorest in society is far too large. It's no better than in mediaeval times with serfs and lords.


Steve.

To need food banks, in one of the richest countries in the world is just beyond belief

 

[MWHCVT]

It's not that simple Matt, the price of everything has gone up, the amount in benefits has actually gone down with inflation. A single young adult gets £57 a week (over 25 gets £72), a couple gets either £72 or £113 depending on age. From that money they are expected to pay a portion of Council Tax, depending on the property they have they could be expected to pay Bedroom Tax, if so, that's around £17 a week, add gas and electricity on and the person getting the lowest rate suddenly doesn't have much money for food (money management doesn't work when there is very little money to manage).

The can't just turn up at a Food Bank either, the referral is made by the JC, Social Services, an NGO or a GP, it really is a choice of 'heat or eat' for a lot of young people. The current governments policies are making things worse, not bettter.

For a lot of the youngsters trying to get off JSA the only choice is a zero hour contract, and then things get even worse, suddenly they also need to find rent and full Council Tax and then it rapidly spirals out of control and it turns into no heat or eat without charities like Trussell stepping in. It's no wonder that many people stay with the lesser evil of being on benefits rather than the gamble of getting a full weeks work with a zero hour contract (I've seen staff get 4 hours a week on these, shop is quiet, send them home on no pay).

Hopefully we will see a change of government and a change of priority next year which would see more youngsters going into real jobs that lift them out of the poverty level they are trapped in.

I suspect we are at very different ends of the political spectrum so this my be an exercise in fruitily, but one thing I would like to raise is there is actually no such tax as "the bedroom tax" it just doesn't exist...the principle of expecting people that do not need a larger subsidised property to give that up or face loosing part of the benefit attached to such a property is perfectly reasonable to me...there are families in desperate need for larger accomdation that cannot get into it for properties being under occupied...has there been certain case examples where this has been unfairly detrimental, yes of course and hopefully those will be resolved in favour of the claimant...

Personally I fear a change in government, this country is in a very delicate position right now, it's on the edge of recovery right now...after several years of hard cuts to services, budgets etc and you know what we are still spending way more than the tax receipts, this should demonstrate just how messed up the countries budget is...that's truly scary to me...but then as I alluded to above, I was raised on saving for what I wanted rather than relying on credit so maybe that's why billions of budget deficit scares the s*** out of me...

That said I doubt a change in government would actually have that much of an effect on spending, as even the standard alternatives have admitted they need to cut spending...the biggest hole the government faces sadly is one we will not get out of for decades in the form of private finance...and the trillions in payments we will be making to fund the new hospitals etc...which were needed I admit however it would have been far cheaper for the public purse to self finance, though of course the balance sheet would not have looked nearly as rosy then

Are zero hours contracts desirable...no of course not however statistics show that the 4 hours work a week we'll do have some truth to them the fact is that on average those on zero hours contracts according to this document I found actually work 21 hours a week...

Finally moaning about the rates of benefits for me has always been a bit of an odd thing, of course they're supposed to be tight, the whole reason being is that they are supposed to be temporary, not a lifestyle choice...

I often have lively debates with my former shop steward uncle on these matters so know how heated it can get when polar opposites meet

 

[tracybradbury]

@MWHCVT just to clarify but bedroom tax affects far more than just people living in homes that the Government feel are too big - if you have a disabled child that needs a room of their own due to equipment/needs etc as far as the Governement are concerned you need to either downsize, which is unfeasable as often the properties have been adapted to that child's needs or pay the bedroom tax which then leaves the family struggling with money!

Edited to say that I have donated to my local food bank on several occasions, it's sad that we need food banks nowadays

 

[Gremlin]

I see nothing wrong with food banks, not everyone that uses them wastes money, for some they are a lifeline.
To be honest I would rather see people given vouchers for essentials rather then the huge amounts of money
some who just keep producing more offspring seem to get.
Mind you some unscrupulous shopkeepers would probably still profit by exchanging them for things that weren't
on the list

 

[archangel]

I recently witnessed a number of people attend a local food bank with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths and the latest phones in hand......same individuals can also be seen on a daily basis in a well known local pub each afternoon.......seems they can't prioritise what is important in running a home and family. Maybe, as stated, lack of money management is an issue........ I have hIt the poverty line a number of times in my younger days and I used common sense to survive...I stopped going to the pub, got rid of the unnecessary luxuries and generally cut back....it is true that a proportion of the population cannot cut back any further but I believe that a lot still have relative unnecessary luxury such a phones, sky, tablets and phones........I do donate to food banks when possible but only when I feel I can afford to....maybe benefits need to be paid in food vouchers, obviously there will be individuals who will exchange their vouchers for drink and drugs but it maybe cut out some extravagances such as fancy phones, sky tv and 50 inch televisions....and local churches, local government etc who organise these food banks would also offer money management and debt counselling.....

 

[Byker28i]

It's not that simple Matt, the price of everything has gone up, the amount in benefits has actually gone down with inflation. A single young adult gets £57 a week (over 25 gets £72), a couple gets either £72 or £113 depending on age. From that money they are expected to pay a portion of Council Tax, depending on the property they have they could be expected to pay Bedroom Tax, if so, that's around £17 a week, add gas and electricity on and the person getting the lowest rate suddenly doesn't have much money for food (money management doesn't work when there is very little money to manage).

The can't just turn up at a Food Bank either, the referral is made by the JC, Social Services, an NGO or a GP, it really is a choice of 'heat or eat' for a lot of young people. The current governments policies are making things worse, not bettter.

For a lot of the youngsters trying to get off JSA the only choice is a zero hour contract, and then things get even worse, suddenly they also need to find rent and full Council Tax and then it rapidly spirals out of control and it turns into no heat or eat without charities like Trussell stepping in. It's no wonder that many people stay with the lesser evil of being on benefits rather than the gamble of getting a full weeks work with a zero hour contract (I've seen staff get 4 hours a week on these, shop is quiet, send them home on no pay).

Hopefully we will see a change of government and a change of priority next year which would see more youngsters going into real jobs that lift them out of the poverty level they are trapped in.

I thought similarly saw when I was unemployed I was offered £72 a week, but next to me was a young woman with child claiming she needed more than the £600 a week they were giving her as she was living in poverty. Then my daughter worked for a year i a local primary where few parents worked. She's still friendly with a couple who get £1900 a month in benefits, council housing etc. mums never worked since getting pregnant with twins at a young age, father is uneducated and works a couple of weeks a year as a labourer.

Their Faceberk page showed the presents they'd bought for the twins. It filled their spare bedroom.

There's no incentive for them to work.

I also have some experience with the local homeless and associated areas. The local food bank has people who take advantage of the free food available, unfortunately it's human nature. It's not as tightly controlled as thought, as volunteers running them often find it easier to give the food rather than face aggressive opposition.

 

[Steep]

I have and do give to food banks and repeat what's been said above already, it's shameful that they are even needed.
Food bank use is restricted, it may vary from place to place but once or twice a month is usual I think. There's a YouTube video of a Glaswegian guy who runs a food bank, speaking to a government committee about what they do and even how Social Services have tried to abuse them to save their own budgets.

 

[dejongj]

It's not that simple Matt, the price of everything has gone up, the amount in benefits has actually gone down with inflation. A single young adult gets £57 a week (over 25 gets £72), a couple gets either £72 or £113 depending on age. From that money they are expected to pay a portion of Council Tax, depending on the property they have they could be expected to pay Bedroom Tax, if so, that's around £17 a week, add gas and electricity on and the person getting the lowest rate suddenly doesn't have much money for food (money management doesn't work when there is very little money to manage).

The can't just turn up at a Food Bank either, the referral is made by the JC, Social Services, an NGO or a GP, it really is a choice of 'heat or eat' for a lot of young people. The current governments policies are making things worse, not bettter.

For a lot of the youngsters trying to get off JSA the only choice is a zero hour contract, and then things get even worse, suddenly they also need to find rent and full Council Tax and then it rapidly spirals out of control and it turns into no heat or eat without charities like Trussell stepping in. It's no wonder that many people stay with the lesser evil of being on benefits rather than the gamble of getting a full weeks work with a zero hour contract (I've seen staff get 4 hours a week on these, shop is quiet, send them home on no pay).

Hopefully we will see a change of government and a change of priority next year which would see more youngsters going into real jobs that lift them out of the poverty level they are trapped in.

It's a tough one and I think you described it well. However I disagree with the zero hours contracts, and most definitely with a change of government. Never forget what got us in this mess in the first place. I think it is a dangerous time to change governments.

 

[MWHCVT]

@MWHCVT just to clarify but bedroom tax affects far more than just people living in homes that the Government feel are too big - if you have a disabled child that needs a room of their own due to equipment/needs etc as far as the Governement are concerned you need to either downsize, which is unfeasable as often the properties have been adapted to that child's needs or pay the bedroom tax which then leaves the family struggling with money!

Edited to say that I have donated to my local food bank on several occasions, it's sad that we need food banks nowadays

Tracy as I said it's not perfect...very few if any panacea style regulations are, but at its core it is a good thing, I do agree those who's homes have been specially modified should be ring fenced out of the spare room subsidy but even that would get abused by those undeserving unfortunately...

 

[Steve Smith]

When you are unemployed, there is no incentive to take on fairly low paid work. You are better off either on benefits or finding a job with decent pay.

If you are stuck in the middle - e.g. offered part time work, say two or three days a week, you will likely be worse off so there is no incentive. Something should be done to enable people to get benefits on a sliding scale so they can take on work which will hopefully become full time eventually. Some sort of sliding scale depending on hours/days worked per week.

Despite what people might read in The Daily Mail, the vast majority of people who are unemployed would much rather not be.


Steve.

 

[neil_g]

the story's of people sponging off the system puzzle me somewhat as a few years back my partner became unemployed and the local authority made it extremely hard to get any help from them. in the end withdrawing any support as they looked at my salary claiming that i should be able to support both of us. however they just assumed this as they failed to ask for my specific outgoings, if they had they would have seen this was really not possible.

i dont get how it can be possible for people to milk the system when so many fail to get the help they need.

 

[MWHCVT]

When you are unemployed, there is no incentive to take on fairly low paid work. You are better off either on benefits or finding a job with decent pay.

If you are stuck in the middle - e.g. offered part time work, say two or three days a week, you will likely be worse off so there is no incentive. Something should be done to enable people to get benefits on a sliding scale so they can take on work which will hopefully become full time eventually. Some sort of sliding scale depending on hours/days worked per week.

Despite what people might read in The Daily Mail, the vast majority of people who are unemployed would much rather not be.


Steve.

That's interesting as in my direct experience of the unemployed when I was unfortunantly unemployed myself for over 6 months I found myself at job club, what a horror story that was believe me, the vast majority I met there had zero interest in getting a job, and some actually actively worked at not getting a job...when attending you were supposed to send at least 3 applications or speculative letters a week, I witnessed first hand several people that would take blank sheets from the printer, seal them in an envelope with the address of local companies on then hand them to the people running the program to post them claiming them as speculative letters...

I would say 80% of the people I met at this job club had no interest at all in legal work, I dare say a lot did cash in hand work

I do agree that sliding scale of benefits to those getting into work would be good however do not working tax credits also help some here...not to mention the changed to tax liability in the first place for the lowest paid

 

[ghoti]

Never forget what got us in this mess in the first place.

An international banking crisis, catalysed by poor credit regulation in the USA.

It's amusingly depressing to hear the coalition play parochial politics, trying to blame it on "the previous government" - almost like a verbal tic - when exactly the same "mess" was gotten into by every country in the developed world.

 

[MWHCVT]

An international banking crisis, catalysed by poor credit regulation in the USA.

But mainly chronic over spending by the previous government spending hundreds of billions more than they were collecting in from taxation...

 

[archangel]

the story's of people sponging off the system puzzle me somewhat as a few years back my partner became unemployed and the local authority made it extremely hard to get any help from them. in the end withdrawing any support as they looked at my salary claiming that i should be able to support both of us. however they just assumed this as they failed to ask for my specific outgoings, if they had they would have seen this was really not possible.

i dont get how it can be possible for people to milk the system when so many fail to get the help they need.

I agree with Neil......many years ago I was left unable to work for 18 months due to illness and because I had been self employed I was not entitled to a penny.....zilch....and then they informed me that as I was married it was reasonable to assume that my wife was able to support our young family.......I think you need to be a total crook to milk the system and plenty do.......I shopped my wife's sister and her husband for doing that......I know there are genuine people out there who struggle but I really do feel that they are far out numbered by the benefit cheats and those who want everything for nothing.

 

[nilagin]

i dont get how it can be possible for people to milk the system when so many fail to get the help they need.

Probably because some are fully aware of what they can get or find loopholes or means to abuse the system. It's just as likely that the people working for the local authority aren't very good at doing their job and people lose out as a consequence. You'd be surprised at the number of people in such or similar jobs, that relish the position of power they have and see the money as their own and are of actual little help in letting people know what they can claim for and how to go about it.

 

[neil_g]

Probably because some are fully aware of what they can get or find loopholes or means to abuse the system. It's just as likely that the people working for the local authority aren't very good at doing their job and people lose out as a consequence. You'd be surprised at the number of people in such or similar jobs, that relish the position of power they have and see the money as their own and are of actual little help in letting people know what they can claim for and how to go about it.

true i guess

 

[tijuana taxi]

Quick comment on the bedroom tax.

Is it fair to charge when a lesser bedroomed property is unavailable for a swap from their local authority?

 

[ecoleman]

When you are unemployed, there is no incentive to take on fairly low paid work. You are better off either on benefits or finding a job with decent pay.

If you are stuck in the middle - e.g. offered part time work, say two or three days a week, you will likely be worse off so there is no incentive. Something should be done to enable people to get benefits on a sliding scale so they can take on work which will hopefully become full time eventually. Some sort of sliding scale depending on hours/days worked per week.

Despite what people might read in The Daily Mail, the vast majority of people who are unemployed would much rather not be.


Steve.

That's called working tax credits.

 

[ghoti]

But mainly chronic over spending by the previous government spending hundreds of billions more than they were collecting in from taxation...

Nope. That's a very myopic, provincial perspective on the "mess", which was well outside the control of the UK and the only way we could have avoided it would have been if we'd had some sort of bizarre, radical, deglobalised economy.
The crisis affected every country in the developed world. Britain was actually in a position to weather it relatively well (compared to some other western economies).

 

[archangel]

Probably because some are fully aware of what they can get or find loopholes or means to abuse the system.

I was "informed" by a guy in the benefits office that if I was to "separate" from my wife then I would be entitled to accommodation plus emergency payments and not to mention a weekly allowance.......

 

[viv1969]

Nope. That's a very myopic, provincial perspective on the "mess", which was well outside the control of the UK and the only way we could have avoided it would have been if we'd had some sort of bizarre, radical, deglobalised economy.
The crisis affected every country in the developed world. Britain was actually in a position to weather it relatively well (compared to some other western economies).

I understand Australia and New Zealand were relatively unscathed by the global recession.
That's only info from friends living there and work contacts though.

 

[MWHCVT]

Nope. That's a very myopic, provincial perspective on the "mess", which was well outside the control of the UK and the only way we could have avoided it would have been if we'd had some sort of bizarre, radical, deglobalised economy.
The crisis affected every country in the developed world. Britain was actually in a position to weather it relatively well (compared to some other western economies).

Have you been smoking something? Seriously you think that its all the Americans fault the fact we were spending and still are spending billions more than our tax income had naff all to do with it then? You never know one day we might actually balance the budget, that would be something

 

[ghoti]

Have you been smoking something? Seriously you think that its all the Americans fault the fact we were spending and still are spending billions more than our tax income had naff all to do with it then? You never know one day we might actually balance the budget, that would be something

Do you honestly think a global financial crisis (that Britain actually weathered reasonably well) which hit nearly every single developed country on the planet was caused "mainly" by the Labour government's domestic policies? And you think I'm smoking something? You've been sold a pup by the coalition and they're laughing up their sleeves at you.
It wasn't all "America's fault" either. It was a global banking crisis. Although US sub-prime lending did act as a catalyst.

 

[nilagin]

Do you honestly think a global financial crisis (that Britain actually weathered reasonably well) which hit nearly every single developed country on the planet was caused "mainly" by the UK's domestic policies? And you think I'm smoking something?

He never said that. If you think he did, then yes you must be smoking something.

 

[ghoti]

He never said that. If you think he did, then yes you must be smoking something.

Yes he did. Post number 27.

On discussion of causes of the "mess":

But mainly chronic over spending by the previous government spending hundreds of billions more than they were collecting in from taxation...

 

[boyfalldown]

Have you been smoking something? Seriously you think that its all the Americans fault the fact we were spending and still are spending billions more than our tax income had naff all to do with it then? You never know one day we might actually balance the budget, that would be something

I don't think he ever said it was the all the American's fault. Anywhere. What he actually said is it was a global crisis. I think it would of happened regardless of who the government of the day was so casting blame in a rather simplistic way is silly. Of course you could always argue that this isn't the time to be cutting taxes either. But that seems to be the promise


Identifiing one of the multitude of causes as the American sub prime market is not the same as saying it was all the Americans fault