Fuel costs

[Delphin]

If cycling is too much, maybe go for something small

 

[nx4737]

If cycling is too much, maybe go for something small

View attachment 494379

That's one step up from getting one of these, the original EV!

 

[Clive K]

I thought that this was the original ev?

 

[Brentor]

I did a 490 mile round trip last week and thanks to endless roadworks and a huge amount of people sitting in the outside lane, I must have been averaging about 50mph because I was getting the best mpg I've ever seen in my car! lol

M6?

 

[davholla]

I did a 490 mile round trip last week and thanks to endless roadworks and a huge amount of people sitting in the outside lane, I must have been averaging about 50mph because I was getting the best mpg I've ever seen in my car! lol

The US had a 50 mile limit for years to save petrol.

National Maximum Speed Law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Normally I find I can travel at 60 or 70 but anything less it's very slow. It adds to my annoyance that it costs me money.

 

[Nod]

That's one step up from getting one of these, the original EV!

I thought that this was the original ev?

View attachment 494386

You're both forgetting the milk floats (that still exist, I think) and EVs were around in the late 19th (yup, 19th!) century.

 

[Clive K]

Yep! AndI drove one for four years. The accelerator was either on or off and it clicked through three power bands using servos. Get it up to 20mph, freewheel, put the selector into reverse and press the pedal. 20mph to 0mph in a millisecond even with 700 pints aboard.

One of the fleet was souped up in some way and could touch 40mph with a 0 to 30 acceleration faster than any sportscar.

 

[Chris_911]

I confess I'm cutting back. Only covering events if there's a client at the end of it, or it's local.
I have simply stopped doing longer trips.

 

[Delphin]

You're both forgetting the milk floats (that still exist, I think) and EVs were around in the late 19th (yup, 19th!) century.

Yes first electric car in the 1830s, long before petrol and diesel cars.

 

[gman]

M6?

Yep, was awful. Miles upon miles of cones with nothing happening. In Cyprus when driving around we noticed that they put the cones up where they were working with just a small buffer before and after. Zero issues.

 

[Delphin]

Yep, was awful. Miles upon miles of cones with nothing happening. In Cyprus when driving around we noticed that they put the cones up where they were working with just a small buffer before and after. Zero issues.

You should ring 08457 504030. (John Major's total waste of money Cone Hotline)

 

[MK1 Photography]

TBH Jeff is very correct about a small EV cannot tow!
We drive an eGolf it's been fine for some long hops Norfolk , Arundel, Isle of Wight to name a few. Range anxiety nope never.
You can get one of these e Golfs for sub ££6-£8k and no the batteries don't give up ours is 2019 and has 40k on it.
Never any issues - not one!

 

[Sootchucker]

I love my car, it's nothing too special but when I bought it brand new 4 years ago, I optioned it to within an inch of it's life (so pano roof, heated seats front and rear, head up, Harmon Kardon, adaptive LED headlights etc.). It's a really nice place to sit. Trouble is, with it being a nearly 2 tonne 2L Petrol AWD SUV, and with me only doing around 5500 miles per year, and the rocketing price of fuel (which seems to have no end point) I'm starting to seriously consider either an EV (which I swore a few years ago I would never own). Or, alternatively (or maybe in addition) an E-Bike ?

My current journey to work is only 9 miles, but due to having to go though town centre and what seems like hundreds of sets of traffic lights, even driving like a nun, I'll usually be lucky to achieve 28-29mpg. It only becomes more respectable (mid to high forties), on longer runs of 30 miles or more, but to be honest I'm doing less and less of those sort of journeys.

One argument is that with me "only" travelling 5500 miles per year (and I expect that to drop in about 18 months when I eventually retire), that relatively speaking my annual fuel costs are not too unmanageable. However based on unleaded being around £1.35 at the beginning of this year, and now (at least near me) £1.72, it's added approx. £300 already to my annual running costs, and I expect that to increase on a weekly basis. The other option is to sell the Tiguan and get an EV (I quite like the new ID Polo), and whilst that will no doubt absolutely slash my "refuelling" costs, you have to factor in the cost to change.

Currently for my spec of ID Polo, vs what I've been offered as an average on a number of trade in quotes), I's still be looking to put about £7500 into the deal to buy the new car (and that's without the cost of getting a dedicated charger installed). So, even if my fuel costs increase to £500 year over what they were, it would still take me about 15 years to recoup just the purchase price difference, and that's assuming zero charging costs for the Polo over that time (which we know whilst much lower won't be free).

So it's a bit of a dilemma. If I had a shed of a car on it's last legs and had to buy and new car, then I think I'd then seriously be looking at an EV. However my VW only has 22,000 miles on it and is mint in everyway, the change to an EV would be more of a lifestyle or "future proofing" purchase, rather than one that will instantly reduce my motoring costs.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this ?

 

[Clive K]

I love my car, it's nothing too special but when I bought it brand new 4 years ago, I optioned it to within an inch of it's life (so pano roof, heated seats front and rear, head up, Harmon Kardon, adaptive LED headlights etc.). It's a really nice place to sit. Trouble is, with it being a nearly 2 tonne 2L Petrol AWD SUV, and with me only doing around 5500 miles per year, and the rocketing price of fuel (which seems to have no end point) I'm starting to seriously consider either an EV (which I swore a few years ago I would never own). Or, alternatively (or maybe in addition) an E-Bike ?

My current journey to work is only 9 miles, but due to having to go though town centre and what seems like hundreds of sets of traffic lights, even driving like a nun, I'll usually be lucky to achieve 28-29mpg. It only becomes more respectable (mid to high forties), on longer runs of 30 miles or more, but to be honest I'm doing less and less of those sort of journeys.

One argument is that with me "only" travelling 5500 miles per year (and I expect that to drop in about 18 months when I eventually retire), that relatively speaking my annual fuel costs are not too unmanageable. However based on unleaded being around £1.35 at the beginning of this year, and now (at least near me) £1.72, it's added approx. £300 already to my annual running costs, and I expect that to increase on a weekly basis. The other option is to sell the Tiguan and get an EV (I quite like the new ID Polo), and whilst that will no doubt absolutely slash my "refuelling" costs, you have to factor in the cost to change.

Currently for my spec of ID Polo, vs what I've been offered as an average on a number of trade in quotes), I's still be looking to put about £7500 into the deal to buy the new car (and that's without the cost of getting a dedicated charger installed). So, even if my fuel costs increase to £500 year over what they were, it would still take me about 15 years to recoup just the purchase price difference, and that's assuming zero charging costs for the Polo over that time (which we know whilst much lower won't be free).

So it's a bit of a dilemma. If I had a shed of a car on it's last legs and had to buy and new car, then I think I'd then seriously be looking at an EV. However my VW only has 22,000 miles on it and is mint in everyway, the change to an EV would be more of a lifestyle or "future proofing" purchase, rather than one that will instantly reduce my motoring costs.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this ?

Yes. My shed of a car is coming up 17 years old, has covered over 200k miles and is still running perfectly. However, my monthly diesel costs are €200 - €250. It has a 550 litre boot so I don't need to take the dog cage out when I go fishing and has 4WD that allows me to access locations that a conventional car couldn't. A tankful of diesel lasts 500 miles. We have a garage in the basement and off street parking plus 3 phase electricity.

What ev could replace the old Honda? A Toyota BZ4X Touring in AWD would set me back twenty years of fuel cost saving. Anything not Chinese would cost even more and any of them would struggle to do half the Honda's range in real world driving.

 

[Peter123]

I love my car, it's nothing too special but when I bought it brand new 4 years ago, I optioned it to within an inch of it's life (so pano roof, heated seats front and rear, head up, Harmon Kardon, adaptive LED headlights etc.). It's a really nice place to sit. Trouble is, with it being a nearly 2 tonne 2L Petrol AWD SUV, and with me only doing around 5500 miles per year, and the rocketing price of fuel (which seems to have no end point) I'm starting to seriously consider either an EV (which I swore a few years ago I would never own). Or, alternatively (or maybe in addition) an E-Bike ?

My current journey to work is only 9 miles, but due to having to go though town centre and what seems like hundreds of sets of traffic lights, even driving like a nun, I'll usually be lucky to achieve 28-29mpg. It only becomes more respectable (mid to high forties), on longer runs of 30 miles or more, but to be honest I'm doing less and less of those sort of journeys.

One argument is that with me "only" travelling 5500 miles per year (and I expect that to drop in about 18 months when I eventually retire), that relatively speaking my annual fuel costs are not too unmanageable. However based on unleaded being around £1.35 at the beginning of this year, and now (at least near me) £1.72, it's added approx. £300 already to my annual running costs, and I expect that to increase on a weekly basis. The other option is to sell the Tiguan and get an EV (I quite like the new ID Polo), and whilst that will no doubt absolutely slash my "refuelling" costs, you have to factor in the cost to change.

Currently for my spec of ID Polo, vs what I've been offered as an average on a number of trade in quotes), I's still be looking to put about £7500 into the deal to buy the new car (and that's without the cost of getting a dedicated charger installed). So, even if my fuel costs increase to £500 year over what they were, it would still take me about 15 years to recoup just the purchase price difference, and that's assuming zero charging costs for the Polo over that time (which we know whilst much lower won't be free).

So it's a bit of a dilemma. If I had a shed of a car on it's last legs and had to buy and new car, then I think I'd then seriously be looking at an EV. However my VW only has 22,000 miles on it and is mint in everyway, the change to an EV would be more of a lifestyle or "future proofing" purchase, rather than one that will instantly reduce my motoring costs.

Anyone else have any thoughts

I did nearly exactly the same as you, even down to the colour. I like my Tiguan. I need AWD for visiting my bees in the fields. I usually keep my cars a long time and have no intention of changing. A few people I know who have had solar panels fitted with a storage battery in the garage reckon it costs nothing to charge their cars. Ina few years time technology will no doubt have improved to give us more reasons to change to electric.

 

[Clive K]

How much did the solar panels and battery cost?

 

[Stephen L]

On a normal week we only travel 36 miles (one round trip to the supermarket) and my 2023 Hyundai Tucson full Hybrid (not plug-in) covers that at a minimum of 53mpg (petrol), sometimes better depending on traffic. Such low running costs make any extra petrol costs easy to manage. Not possible to use a home charger as our “drive” is about 30 yards from the front of the house. The car is comfortable, quiet, relatively fast, and well equipped so we see no reason to change it.

 

[Norkie]

With retirement approaching and the VW is a very nicely spec’d car. I would keep it and buy an E bike personally.
You won’t concern yourself with the cost of fuel once you have retired.

 

[GordonM]

Only if you have a home charge option - we looked at electric for my daughter (who is in rented student accommodation, electric is included, but with a high per-unit charge if they exceed the 'bundled' units) - public charging would have put the price on par with petrol.

My wife's charger failed recently. We were charging at the local Morrison's and paying 59p/kwh 20% - 80% battery charge was £28, so still cheaper than diesel in my car. The technician from Ohmn turned up 30 minutes after DPD delivered a new replacement charger as it was still under warranty, Ohmn having apparently interrogated it remotely and deciding it was a a faulty unit.

 

[MK1 Photography]

I love my car, it's nothing too special but when I bought it brand new 4 years ago, I optioned it to within an inch of it's life (so pano roof, heated seats front and rear, head up, Harmon Kardon, adaptive LED headlights etc.). It's a really nice place to sit. Trouble is, with it being a nearly 2 tonne 2L Petrol AWD SUV, and with me only doing around 5500 miles per year, and the rocketing price of fuel (which seems to have no end point) I'm starting to seriously consider either an EV (which I swore a few years ago I would never own). Or, alternatively (or maybe in addition) an E-Bike ?

My current journey to work is only 9 miles, but due to having to go though town centre and what seems like hundreds of sets of traffic lights, even driving like a nun, I'll usually be lucky to achieve 28-29mpg. It only becomes more respectable (mid to high forties), on longer runs of 30 miles or more, but to be honest I'm doing less and less of those sort of journeys.

One argument is that with me "only" travelling 5500 miles per year (and I expect that to drop in about 18 months when I eventually retire), that relatively speaking my annual fuel costs are not too unmanageable. However based on unleaded being around £1.35 at the beginning of this year, and now (at least near me) £1.72, it's added approx. £300 already to my annual running costs, and I expect that to increase on a weekly basis. The other option is to sell the Tiguan and get an EV (I quite like the new ID Polo), and whilst that will no doubt absolutely slash my "refuelling" costs, you have to factor in the cost to change.

Currently for my spec of ID Polo, vs what I've been offered as an average on a number of trade in quotes), I's still be looking to put about £7500 into the deal to buy the new car (and that's without the cost of getting a dedicated charger installed). So, even if my fuel costs increase to £500 year over what they were, it would still take me about 15 years to recoup just the purchase price difference, and that's assuming zero charging costs for the Polo over that time (which we know whilst much lower won't be free).

So it's a bit of a dilemma. If I had a shed of a car on it's last legs and had to buy and new car, then I think I'd then seriously be looking at an EV. However my VW only has 22,000 miles on it and is mint in everyway, the change to an EV would be more of a lifestyle or "future proofing" purchase, rather than one that will instantly reduce my motoring costs.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this ?

Most of the time we charge we use a 7kwh home charger at a cheaper night rate of 5.7p a kWh cheap as chips

 

[Peter123]

How much did the solar panels and battery cost?

I slightly mis-typed and should have said I know a few who have had solar panels fitted (we haven’t).
Neighbour told me 13 years payback (he has a plug in hybrid) whilst daughter has just had them fitted says 6 years payback (no electric vehicle at the moment).

 

[artyman]

You have a difficult decision to make, your annual milage is considerably less than mine, I do about 8K. My old Mercedes I'd had for 11 years was due for a change and so didn't have that problem. Depreciation is the biggest ownership cost. Fuel savings, assuming you had a charger at home and an off peak tariiff would not be as substantial as the £1700 I would be spending assuming I still had the Mercedes. Charging last year cost me £167 which included a couple of expensive charges on long road trips. Although your anticipated spend to swap to an EV is £7,500, you need to consider what is likely to be considerably high depreciation of your present car as the world switches to EV's, Will anyone want your car say four or five years down the line, is it better to bite the bullet now so to speak. I would never go back to a fossil fuel car, and although it was expensive, and yes it depreciates just the same, I have no regrets about my decision. I hope these thoughts prove useful in your decision process. Feel free to message me if you want more information.

 

[Peter123]

Depreciation is the biggest ownership cost.

After 4 years you’ve swallowed a lot of depreciation. That’s why I keep mine for 8-10 years or more. I’m not doing many miles these days so higher fuel costs don’t have such a big impact compared to someone who does a lot.

 

[F1.2]

Diesel on the M1 £218.9 per ltr
I spent £150 on derv for my trip Tuesday Yikes

 

[David_Mug]

We need to heed the words of one Trump supporter. "my truck used to hold $70 worth of gas. Now it holds $120! What a man."

 

[MK1 Photography]

We don't do many miles in our EV really but we bought it 2019 as approved used vw and as I said it's been faultless.
The egolfs are a great buy as they look like a golf but powered by electricity!

 

[Hanley]

Drive an electric car only costs me about £6 to do 300 miles it's better for the environment as well

For now, I think we all know pay per mile will be with us sooner rather than later. The Government needs to recoup all that lost revenue from reducing petrol / diesel sales.

Electronic cigarettes / vapes is a great example, it's great that fewer people are smoking cigarettes but it's a huge financial loss to the Exchequer, so duty has now been placed on vapes to plug the gap.

Electric vehicles will be next I would imagine. Within 5 years would be my guess.

 

[Hanley]

Try and arrange to go with multiple friends and then you can split the fuel cost and any parking etc.

I drive a 63 plate diesel car and I refuse to sell it and get a new car, it's 13 years old but it's fully paid for and owes me nothing, as of today it's done 41,000 miles and was serviced last week where I had to replace the front brakes and align 1 front wheel, total cost around £500, the brakes were the original so wasn't a surprise.

Mercedes dealer always tries to persuade me to trade it in and get a new car, and I always ask 'Why? What will the new car give me that this car doesn't that can justify a monthly cost of, say, £500-£600?'. I have a phone holder which plugs in to USB so I can use Google Maps and listen to music through the car so I don't need anything else.

My wife drives a new X-Trail but I'm happy in my trusty diesel car

I will admit, I filled it up on Sunday morning as I was photographing the Manchester Half Marathon and it cost £107, I think that's the first time it's ever been over £100, thankfully the company I shoot for pays a good mileage fee so it helps cover the fuel costs.

 

[Norkie]

The problem is that unpopular taxes are not usually reversed by the 'new' incoming government. They are usually increased over time. Look at airport tax!

Historic rates for Air Passenger Duty

Check which Air Passenger Duty rates apply for years earlier than the current year.

www.gov.uk

 

[LCPete]

Try and arrange to go with multiple friends and then you can split the fuel cost and any parking etc.

I drive a 63 plate diesel car and I refuse to sell it and get a new car, it's 13 years old but it's fully paid for and owes me nothing, as of today it's done 41,000 miles and was serviced last week where I had to replace the front brakes and align 1 front wheel, total cost around £500, the brakes were the original so wasn't a surprise.

Mercedes dealer always tries to persuade me to trade it in and get a new car, and I always ask 'Why? What will the new car give me that this car doesn't that can justify a monthly cost of, say, £500-£600?'. I have a phone holder which plugs in to USB so I can use Google Maps and listen to music through the car so I don't need anything else.

My wife drives a new X-Trail but I'm happy in my trusty diesel car

I will admit, I filled it up on Sunday morning as I was photographing the Manchester Half Marathon and it cost £107, I think that's the first time it's ever been over £100, thankfully the company I shoot for pays a good mileage fee so it helps cover the fuel costs.

Exactly this we have a 7 year old Yaris on 47 K miles , my other half wants a new electric car but to be completely honest I just don’t see why
Ours is completely reliable only pay for a yearly service
It’s perfect for my photo trips , I can get in it muddy and covered in grass bits after a day in the nature reserve and not worry
I am not convinced that getting rid of a perfectly good car for a new one is greener anyway

 

[Brentor]

Try and arrange to go with multiple friends and then you can split the fuel cost and any parking etc.

I drive a 63 plate diesel car and I refuse to sell it and get a new car, it's 13 years old but it's fully paid for and owes me nothing, as of today it's done 41,000 miles and was serviced last week where I had to replace the front brakes and align 1 front wheel, total cost around £500, the brakes were the original so wasn't a surprise.

Mercedes dealer always tries to persuade me to trade it in and get a new car, and I always ask 'Why? What will the new car give me that this car doesn't that can justify a monthly cost of, say, £500-£600?'. I have a phone holder which plugs in to USB so I can use Google Maps and listen to music through the car so I don't need anything else.

My wife drives a new X-Trail but I'm happy in my trusty diesel car

I will admit, I filled it up on Sunday morning as I was photographing the Manchester Half Marathon and it cost £107, I think that's the first time it's ever been over £100, thankfully the company I shoot for pays a good mileage fee so it helps cover the fuel costs.

I had a 66 plate diesel with 72k mileage until yesterday. It had been very reliable and was top of a chart for old cars still on the road. I would have kept it but the rest of the family wanted something new as this car is larger than our other two and is used for all our long trips and holidays. I couldn’t find a suitable ev in the price range which was similar to an old fashioned estate so ended up with a petrol mild hybrid of the same make and model.

Perhaps I should keep my cameras for 10 years.

 

[the black fox]

My main change car scenarios over the years has been once an expensive repair comes round it’s time to go . . I’m now on my second Honda CRV and they just keep going hmmmm

 

[gman]

The problem is that unpopular taxes are not usually reversed by the 'new' incoming government. They are usually increased over time. Look at airport tax!

Historic rates for Air Passenger Duty

Check which Air Passenger Duty rates apply for years earlier than the current year.

www.gov.uk

^ This. The next Government will know that the previous Government have taken the flak, so it's easy just to keep the status quo.

 

[Delphin]

I think most of the EV evangelist are not actually say change your car to electric now, but when you next come to replacing it, then get an EV.

The timing of that change could be interesting, as diesel goes up, I would expect the value and desirability of a second hand one goes down. Do we change before our cars are basically worthless.

 

[AdamSi]

We are investigating these electric-assisted Tricycles for getting around locally instead of using our (diesel) cars. We have a great network of cycle paths and greenways around us, giving access to beaches and nature reserves, so it seems the wise and clever thing to do. At least for joggings. Not sure the dogs would agree though!!

A farmer friend up the road has recently bought a trotting pony to put in front of a trap, to drive around locally as he's expecting to lose his car licence soon.

regarding the dogs, have a look at the dog / child trailers, they are very good now compared to years ago.

 

[AdamSi]

I think most of the EV evangelist are not actually say change your car to electric now, but when you next come to replacing it, then get an EV.

The timing of that change could be interesting, as diesel goes up, I would expect the value and desirability of a second hand one goes down. Do we change before our cars are basically worthless.

Like everything its a roller coaster, last year some EV's were £19k that I looked at, right now the same spec and milage is £29k as demand has risen sharply as expected, diesel going the other way but it will reverse again at some point I have no doubt, same happened when insurance went stupid on certain models, you could grab a real bargain if you lived in a place where it was cheaper to insure, now that has gone away the value has risen of those vehicles again.

 

[nog]

For now, I think we all know pay per mile will be with us sooner rather than later. The Government needs to recoup all that lost revenue from reducing petrol / diesel sales.

Electronic cigarettes / vapes is a great example, it's great that fewer people are smoking cigarettes but it's a huge financial loss to the Exchequer, so duty has now been placed on vapes to plug the gap.

Electric vehicles will be next I would imagine. Within 5 years would be my guess.

My bold
The gov have already sorted it, starting 2028:

https://www.cars2buy.co.uk/news/industry-news/the-pay-per-mile-road-tax-for-electric-vehicles-what-you-need-to-know/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21357668062&gbraid=0AAAAAD9sfwFkWVWzNTPEDFgBGNtp5FGm9&gclid=CjwKCAjw25fWBhAVEiwAMopNjsfstHtKY42rLWDXeW4jKykmfmOhzXBx9I53XpOFz_S_5q71QwlSahoCdEkQAvD_BwE

 

[Hanley]

My bold
The gov have already sorted it, starting 2028:

https://www.cars2buy.co.uk/news/industry-news/the-pay-per-mile-road-tax-for-electric-vehicles-what-you-need-to-know/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21357668062&gbraid=0AAAAAD9sfwFkWVWzNTPEDFgBGNtp5FGm9&gclid=CjwKCAjw25fWBhAVEiwAMopNjsfstHtKY42rLWDXeW4jKykmfmOhzXBx9I53XpOFz_S_5q71QwlSahoCdEkQAvD_BwE

Thought as much

 

[moggi1964]

My 96k 2014 Nissan Pulsar is in for its MOT as I type. We bought it with 6k on the clock. It has a 1.2 Turbo petrol engine and gets decent mileage (I don't track it).

I'll get the 100k service in November and we do stick to the service intervals. Other than a camchain, we have not had to replace anything other than the usual things like brakes discs, pads etc, and service items.

(Passed the MOT with a rear brake pad advisory only - awesome!)

 

[artyman]

The economics of changing a car it's usually better to keep what you have, with the proviso is it reliable, costing more in repairs, no longer suitable for the job. Any of those reasons may prompt a change in which case look seriously at going EV. People get obsessed about range, range is only a factor when the journey is greater and the frequency that that happens, a few times a year I'm not bothered, bladder range is the critical issue