Fuji X100 alternatives?

wippers

wippers

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Gareth
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Having got my heart set on a Fuji X100 as a walkabout camera, I decided to have a look at one in the flesh. Although I loved the looks and feel, I found it a bit awkward to use. The auto focus seemed a bit slow too.
Although I've not completely ruled out the X100, I thought I'd have a look at the alternatives. Can anyone recommend a compact camera which has external button/dial for the various modes, shutter speed and aperture? I would only need a pretty wide angle lens such as the 20mm f2 and not need something changeable to be honest.
I'm basically looking for a compact 5D2. (y) :D
I've had a search around TP but not sure how up to date some of topic are so maybe there's something new about?

Any help much appreciated. Budget £500-£600.
 
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Hi,

Did the X100 you Tested have the latest Firmware update as the Autofocus has Improved a lot with it.

I know that because I have one.

Agree it is Awkward to handle at first just a case of getting used to it.

Regards.
 
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I purchased the x100 but hated the rubbish af in mixed or low light, in good conditions it was pretty good.

I ended up with a gx1 and 20mm f1.7, af is excellent even in low light and very sharp wide open and the 20mm is one of the slower auto focusing lenses. Handles nicely to with lots of manual controls.
 
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This is after using most of the NEX cameras and M4/3 and advanced compacts like the excellent RX100. Wanted something smaller with fast apertures and manual controls.
 
Don't think so but body only is pretty cheap in comparison to an x100. Edit £279. Should get a used 20mm for £190.
 
wippers said:
As it's quite a bit cheaper, does it still produce good results?
Anyone have any views on the lack of shallow DOF from the X100 at f2?
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It's a 23mm lens isn't it? To get shallow DoF you're going to have to use the wider apertures and reduce your camera to subject distance. The same is true of the 20mm f1.7 and MFT. It can be done, but you have to work to get it.

PS. Just had a thought... If you can wait a bit there's probably going to be a couple of new cameras from Olympus and Panasonic within the next couple/few months.

Have you thought about a Nex 6 or 7 + 35mm f1.8? Not as wide as the Fuji 23mm though. Blows the budget too.
 
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woof woof said:
It's a 23mm lens isn't it? To get shallow DoF you're going to have to use the wider apertures and reduce your camera to subject distance. The same is true of the 20mm f1.7 and MFT. It can be done, but you have to work to get it.
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Correct....
 
woof woof said:
It's a 23mm lens isn't it? To get shallow DoF you're going to have to use the wider apertures and reduce your camera to subject distance. The same is true of the 20mm f1.7 and MFT. It can be done, but you have to work to get it.

PS. Just had a thought... If you can wait a bit there's probably going to be a couple of new cameras from Olympus and Panasonic within the next couple/few months.

Have you thought about a Nex 6 or 7 + 35mm f1.8? Not as wide as the Fuji 23mm though. Blows the budget too.
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I'm not really used to the wide angles these pancake lenses offer so I see where you're coming from having to work harder to get the shallow DOF. I forget that I shoot a 300mm prime more often that not, so 23mm is a big change.
I had a NEX5 some time ago but never really got used to having to use the live view all the time. The X100 has the view finder which is what attracted me to it initially, although the Canon G15 I looked at in store also had this and I think I preferred that over the X100.
I assume the NEX6 & NEX7 have got the live view only?
 
Not sure there are any direct alternatives as the combination of very good viewfinder (optical with overlay) with external controls in a compactish form are non existent.
They also have great IQ and look great which helps the appeal.

Sold mine as it was too big and the AF speed was disappointing for a £600 camera (even with the firmware change). It wouldn't fit comfortably in any pocket so missed the point. If I have to carry a bag around I may as well just throw a DSLR with prime lens in there...
 
Nex 6 and 7 have a very good EVF but no optical finder. The nex 7 produces good images with the primes but a 24/1.4 is £800, 35/1.8 is £350 and 50/1.8 is £220ish, the zooms are poor on the nex 7 and adequate on the nex 6.

The canon has a much smaller sensor and a slower zoom lens, IQ is poor at anything over iso200 when compared to the larger sensor cameras.

The panasonic 20/1.7 offers less DOF than the fuji lens due to he sensor being half the size and is probably the slowest focusing panasonic lens. The images from it are very nice though when combined with something like the panasonic g3.
 
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ernesto said:
Sold mine as it was too big and the AF speed was disappointing for a £600 camera (even with the firmware change). It wouldn't fit comfortably in any pocket so missed the point. If I have to carry a bag around I may as well just throw a DSLR with prime lens in there...
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Can I ask what you replaced the X100 with?

It's looking like the camera I want is non-existent so I'll have to make a compromise. I think the G15 seems to be the best all rounder for what I want based on what I toyed with in the shop, but the newer NEX machines look worth a look too.
I think I'll have a wander down to the local Currrys today and have a play with what they have.
 
Soulman said:
The panasonic 20/1.7 offers less DOF than the fuji lens due to he sensor being half the size and is probably the slowest focusing panasonic lens. The images from it are very nice though when combined with something like the panasonic g3.
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Doesn't look half the size of APSC, also check out the Oly 45mm 1.8 for shallow dof, mounts fine on all m4/3 cameras.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format
 
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wippers said:
Can I ask what you replaced the X100 with?
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Yes, a Ricoh GRD 2 that I got for £80. I have given up trying to get all things in a small pocket sized camera and find the Ricoh good enough for a pocket camera.
Clearly the IQ and high ISO abilities don't come anywhere near the X100 but my DSLR and prime does (and betters it in many ways - focusing!) which I now use if carrying in a bag.
 
Hi Gareth,

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the X10 yet!

It's an outstanding little camera that appears to have been made even better with the introduction of the X20 (something I'll be looking at closely at Focus next weekend)!

Mine goes with me almost everywhere... Including up to the Mach Loop. It's no good for aircraft but it's great for everything else. (y)
 
I agree, the Fuji X20 should be what you might be looking for.
It's lens is also f2.8 constant end to end.

Riz :)
 
Soulman said:
The panasonic 20/1.7 offers less DOF than the fuji lens due to he sensor being half the size...
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Sensor sizes here...

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm

Having owned both APS-C and MFT and after doing real world comparisons I have to say that IMVHO the difference in DoF between APS-C and MFT is negligible.

Stick a 20mm-ish lens on either and you're going to have to do the same two things to get shallow DoF...

1. Shoot with wide apertures.
2. Shoot with a reduced camera to subject distance.

Something is being missed here though and it's DoF and exposure. Using wider focal length lenses enables you to get adequate DoF with wider apertures and you can therefore use faster shutter speeds and / or lower ISO settings. This can be an advantage for handheld shooting in available light. For example if shooting with 5D+50mm at f8 and a MFT with 25mm at f4 I'll get a faster shutter speed/lower ISO with the MFT and 25mm lens.
 
wippers said:
I assume the NEX6 & NEX7 have got the live view only?
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These cameras are EVF only, no OVF.

Live view can have its advantages, for example with an in view histogram blown highlights are a thing of the past and I have more chance of nailing a shot first time with my G1 than with my 5D despite the 5D having a greater dynamic range :D
 
I had a similar request last month. I wanted a aps-c sensor with some pancake primes, but i also wanted a viewfinder. I decided i wanted a nex6. Problem was there prime lenses are to large and i didn't want to spend that sort of money on not my main camera. I ended up with a Samsung nx10, and i have to say i lover it! I haven't used my d5100 since buying it. I paid just £167 with the 18-55 kit lens and a 30mm f2 pancake prime. I sold the kit lens last week for £85 making the nx10 + 20mm setup £82! They also do a 20mm pancake prime which can be picked up for £75, which is next on the list.
 
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Spiritflier said:
Hi Gareth,

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the X10 yet!

It's an outstanding little camera that appears to have been made even better with the introduction of the X20 (something I'll be looking at closely at Focus next weekend)!

Mine goes with me almost everywhere... Including up to the Mach Loop. It's no good for aircraft but it's great for everything else. (y)
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Had a look at an X10 in Currys the other day and have to say it's a pretty nice piece of kit for £329 online. Hmmmm :thinking::)
 
I don't know if you're about tomorrow but I'll be taking mine up CadWest in the morning... You're welcome to have a mess about with it if you can make it. :)
 
Spiritflier said:
I don't know if you're about tomorrow but I'll be taking mine up CadWest in the morning... You're welcome to have a mess about with it if you can make it. :)
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Cheers for the offer Si, but I'm at work unfortunately tomorrow. Only got a few spare days this year for the Loop, so having to pick them carefully, and hopefully when the weathers half decent. Absolutely peed it down all day last time I ventured up Cadwest! Spent virtually the whole day in the tent! :(
Much traffic about at the mo?
 
I've just got my X100 and I can say it is a pretty neat camera, the design is pretty classy. The AF is fine with the latest firmware, it's quite easy to operate the camera when you get used to it. The ISO performance I think is better than any cheap m4/3(I've had GF1, GF3, G1, G2). You can get shallow DOF you just need to be quite close to the subject and the bokeh is fair. One thing I like a lot is the mix of optical/electronic viewfinder.The body itself is very well built and it feels very good in your hand(especially compared to GF1 and GF3) which definitely goes to the pros list
 
Agree, the X100 is a great camera and viewfinder, build quality, ease of use etc,. are all very good. However, your AF is fine is another mans AF is poor.

For a £600 camera the AF was disappointing. That may matter more to some than others so no reason to completely rule it out based on that.
 
Yeah, depends on what conditions/lighting you take pics in, decent light its pretty good, dimmer/artificial its awful. The older M4/3 listed sensor was quite a bit poorer than the newer gen GX-1, G3 onwards. As Plamen says though the build quality and feel is fantastic.
 
The camera is not made for sports and I can only guess its main purpose is street photography, land/city scape or in other words anything that's not moving. What I've read on reviews even though the AF is slow it is spot on, so for the occasional portrait should be just fine. As for the price you can get a refurb one from Fuji together with the promo code it is around 450£
 
plamen_gb said:
The camera is not made for sports and I can only guess its main purpose is street photography, land/city scape or in other words anything that's not moving.
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Things don't move in a street? This is exactly what I was using it for and found it frustrating. See something you want to capture, raise camera, quickly compose and then wait for focus - too late, missed it.
But as I say, this was my bugbear and it may not bother others but again for an originally £1000 camera it is not something you should have to put up with (maybe I am expecting too much)
 
I'm going to have another play with an X100 as have been offered a new one at £449 which is a really good price. I've also been told to look at the Canon G1X which also looks like a decent machine.
It's going to come down to how quick the AF is I think as I love the looks and feels of the X100, but slow AF may kill it.
 
ernesto said:
Things don't move in a street? This is exactly what I was using it for and found it frustrating. See something you want to capture, raise camera, quickly compose and then wait for focus - too late, missed it.
But as I say, this was my bugbear and it may not bother others but again for an originally £1000 camera it is not something you should have to put up with (maybe I am expecting too much)
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Ever heard of zone focusing? :D
 
Twist, I stand corrected it's 3/5th's the size.

What I was bringing up is that people often mention the panasonic 20mm lens on a MFT body as an alternative to the Fuji, they forget to mention that th focussing is probably slower than the Fuji and, apart from the OMD and GH3, the Fuji offers better IQ, IMHO, than the rest of the MFT bodies.
 
davekiddle said:
Ever heard of zone focusing? :D
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Just a bit, I use it 90% of the time on my Ricoh where it is instantly available at the press of a button switching between zone and AF. I have it set to zone as default setting when I turn the camera on.
It clearly has less limitations with a small sensor such as the Ricoh and choice of aperture almost doesn't matter with such a large DoF anyway.

It doesn't make the AF of the X100 any better though which is what we are talking about here and my point remains, AF is crap for a camera that was originally £1000 and having to use zone focusing to make up for it is something that shouldn't need to be done...
 
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Woof woof, that cambridge link is great. I was surprised to see the MFT equivalent to the fuji lens is 17/1.5 which is closer to the panasonic lens than I thought it would be....
 
Soulman said:
Twist, I stand corrected it's 3/5th's the size.

What I was bringing up is that people often mention the panasonic 20mm lens on a MFT body as an alternative to the Fuji, they forget to mention that th focussing is probably slower than the Fuji and, apart from the OMD and GH3, the Fuji offers better IQ, IMHO, than the rest of the MFT bodies.
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Actually, in the conditions most people mention, the Fuji is a lot slower and less accurate than both a gf3 and gx1 with 20mm.
 
I am in a similar boat, I have a Panasonic GF-1 and a D800, The GF-1 is great but I keep lusting after the Fuji camera's the X100, the X-E1, the X-Pro1.

I have also considered the Sigma DP-3, I have the DP-1 and I love that foveon sensor but the camera is such a dog to use, I don't get the impression that Sigma have done that much to improve the usability of their cameras. If I was primarily a landscape shooter that is what I would go for.

I ma not convinced that any of the cameras will give me a significant advantage over the GF1 with 20mm pancake. I keep going around in circles and getting nowhere :thinking:

Maybe I should stop worrying and go out and use the kit I have.
 
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