Full frame and crop sensor??

amumonamission said:
Ok, so what I have found is that the 60d has only 9 af pionts compared to 19 on the 7d, also, it can only shoot at 5.3 frames ps and the 7d can do 8.

The price dif new at a quick look is £468 for the 60d and £655 for the 7d

So for me, I would still go with the 7d :)
Click to expand...

Are these import prices you have found or UK supply?
 
digital said:
A lot. Especially when travelling when swapping lenses means that I possibly lose the shot or risk the potential of a whole lot of dust inside the camera.

In Antarctica, for example, and before I got the second body (the 5DIII), I found that I was continually swapping lenses both on the ship and when we were ashore. The potential for disasters and missed opportunities wasn't all that enjoyable.



I had managed fine with the 5DIII and 60D until my wife decided she might as well join in rather than watch me and decided that the 60D would do just fine!

Now I'm looking for another second body I need to make sure I get the right one and the option of the 7D is making the decision difficult.
Click to expand...

Yeah that makes sense. Now you have to choose which one you're going to get, 60d or 7d?

What is it that is putting you off of getting a 60d again? Did it not fully meet your needs before?
 
arad85 said:
Correct.... You would need something like a 24-105 or 24-70 to replace the 17-50. Don't forget that FF gives a wider field of view, so a 24mm on FF will give the same field of view as a 15mm on crop (the factor is 1.6). Note, the focal lengths of lenses don't change, just the field of view does which leads to the term effective focal length (15mm on crop is the same effective focal length as 24mm on FF).
Click to expand...

Good bit of info ;)

newsagent said:
Are these import prices you have found or UK supply?
Click to expand...

HDEW
 
digital said:
and the 60D seemed to come out on top against the 7D with low noise being its biggest advantage.
Click to expand...
I have no idea why - the sensor is the same in both cameras.....
 
arad85 said:
I have no idea why - the sensor is the same in both cameras.....
Click to expand...

Because Canon fiddled with it?

I've read the same, that the 60D performs better than the 7D noise wise, as does the xxxD version (I can't remember what it's called, 650D?) from what I've read.

Googling should take you to the usual reviews and if so you'll probably read that the later bodies that share the 7D chip perform better noise wise.

I'd take a 5Dc over any of them and in fact I did :D Choice is a good thing though and if anyone wants to go for a 60D or a 7D they're valid choices :D
 
Last edited:
Define pretty much.

If they're the same they're the same, if they're better they're better.

What I've read is obviously the opinion of the reviewers, but I have read it more than once.
 
Having owned the 7d and 5d I would go for the 7d every time. Yes there are certain advantages to full frame but the 7d has so much more going for it.

My decision when rebuying my gear was 7d or 5dii. I went for the 5dii but do miss having things like better focus and remote flash triggering.

Definitely the 7d though I'd think for the OP. it's a great camera by all respects.
 
draiman said:
Having owned the 7d and 5d I would go for the 7d every time. Yes there are certain advantages to full frame but the 7d has so much more going for it.

My decision when rebuying my gear was 7d or 5dii. I went for the 5dii but do miss having things like better focus and remote flash triggering.

Definitely the 7d though I'd think for the OP. it's a great camera by all respects.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I am going to start looking for one, can't decide at the moment whether to get new or second hand :thinking:
 
digital said:
Then, as has been previously suggested, make sure the lens(es) you get is/are suitable for full frame as well as crop.
Click to expand...

Personally I wouldnt worry about this at all.

Surely it's better to have the best lens for the job NOW. Rather than a lens that's a compromise now and in the future.

Ie what FF capable UWA would you recommend, it's probably just the Sigma 12-24, which you'd probably end up swapping for something less wide when you go FF (17-40), get a 10-20 and swap it later.
Standard zoom?
The 24-70 isn't really wide enough, the 17-40 not long enough the 17-55efs is the best tool for the job.
That's the point, they're tools for a job, you wouldn't buy a sports car when you need space to carry the kids and pushchairs, on the basis that 'they'll be off to Uni soon'. It's just silly.
 
Phil V said:
Personally I wouldnt worry about this at all.

Surely it's better to have the best lens for the job NOW. Rather than a lens that's a compromise now and in the future.

Ie what FF capable UWA would you recommend, it's probably just the Sigma 12-24, which you'd probably end up swapping for something less wide when you go FF (17-40), get a 10-20 and swap it later.
Standard zoom?
The 24-70 isn't really wide enough, the 17-40 not long enough the 17-55efs is the best tool for the job.
That's the point, they're tools for a job, you wouldn't buy a sports car when you need space to carry the kids and pushchairs, on the basis that 'they'll be off to Uni soon'. It's just silly.
Click to expand...

Another reason really why I'm sticking to crop sensor. I just bought a tamron 17-50 2.8, yeah ok it's not a canon lens but I am really happy with the results I'm getting with it but it wouldn't be compatible with ff so that would leave me with a 70-200 and 50mm that would be so...just gonna still with crop sensor. If I was going to upgrade my tamron lens I may get a 24-70 2.8 though but that would be before I upgraded my camera and to be honest the more I hear about the 7d the more I think I might end up sticking with it anyway!
 
Phil V said:
Personally I wouldnt worry about this at all.

Surely it's better to have the best lens for the job NOW. Rather than a lens that's a compromise now and in the future.

Ie what FF capable UWA would you recommend, it's probably just the Sigma 12-24, which you'd probably end up swapping for something less wide when you go FF (17-40), get a 10-20 and swap it later.
Click to expand...

I had the 10-20 (effectively 16-32 on a crop and not suitable for FF) and when I got the 5DIII I had to sell it to get the 12-24 (effectively 19-38 on a crop) so that I had the choice of camera to use it on.

It cost money to swap. Money that I would not have lost if I had got the 12-24 originally.

Phil V said:
It's just silly.
Click to expand...

Do you really need to add something like this? It's not necessary and doesn't add to the discussion.
 
digital said:
Do you really need to add something like this? It's not necessary and doesn't add to the discussion.
Click to expand...

I don't think any offence was intended here, Phil is just giving his opinion for which I am grateful.

I am also grateful for your opinion and everyone else's on here :)

Since reading everyones opinion regarding ff, as I don't really use the wide angel much I probably won't be upgrading to ff at any time in the future anyway. I do now though know the difference between ef and ef-s lenses, I wouldn't have paid any attention before, whether that will be of any benefit to me in the future who knows...

Thanks everyone :)
 
digital said:
I had the 10-20 (effectively 16-32 on a crop and not suitable for FF) and when I got the 5DIII I had to sell it to get the 12-24 (effectively 19-38 on a crop) so that I had the choice of camera to use it on.

It cost money to swap. Money that I would not have lost if I had got the 12-24 originally.



Do you really need to add something like this? It's not necessary and doesn't add to the discussion.
Click to expand...

Good that you took that statement right out of context in order to make it look argumentative. That's the definition of unhelpful:).

Back to the point though - I see what you're saying about the 10-20 / 12-24, it's not too much to lose (although there's a bigger difference between 16 and 19mm than you might think, if you really want to be picky). There is still no real alternative for the crop factor mid range zoom that'll fit on a FF camera. I'd even go as far as to say - the ONLY mid range zoom I'd recommend for a Canon crop shooter for weddings is the Canon 17-55, because it's the only one that'll lock focus on a black cat in a coalmine (turn of phrase). None of the alternatives have anything close to the same focus performance. Again, if you're not shooting for money, then the compromise in focus ability isn't worth the extra cost, but if you just have to get the shot - the spend is a 'no-brainer'.

But the point for a photographer out at work is that they need the right tools for the job, and unfortunately that means that if they change systems it'll cost money. But that's a legitimate cost of doing business and has to be qualified in their decision to go FF (or MF or anything else).
 
Very interesting read, some food for thought when it comes time to upgrade.

Reading other threads similar to this the majority say go FF, but it all depends on what you need the camera to do. Glad you managed to select one a stick with your decision :)
 
amumonamission said:
I don't use wide angle a great deal so I don't think I would see any real benefit there.

Thanks eveyone, i'm really glad I posted this as I am more sure about what I want to do now.

7d it is!!

Unless I decide to upgrade again that is! lol
Click to expand...

You will :lol:

BTW if you're shooting weddings or any other professional images then having a body of anything less than a 7D is BAD!!!

I've owned a 450D, a 7D, a 6D and a 5D MKIII... FF bodies give you brilliant high ISO performance, excellent IQ, better colour rendition, more detail in the images and loads of other benefits like being able to set a min shutter speed for AV mode and max auto ISO.

The 450D was useless as anything other than a amatuer camera, the 7D lasted me a year before I upgraded to the 5D MK III and the 6D came along as my 2nd body... oh I owned a 40D too at some point which I didn't like at all.

Recently I shot a wedding and my 5D MK III packed in at the reception, and at the time I only had the 7D as my 2nd camera and it was basically a back up... anyway I shot a series of images at ISO 3200 and couldn't believe how awful they looked compared to the FF pics only a few mins earlier. They were grainy, they weren't half as sharp and the colour were wishy washy.

I think where you're at in your business at the moment a 7D will do you fine... but you WILL want to upgrade at some point should things go well... also IMO you should have a back up better than a 550D, so I'd advise 2 7D's or even one FF and one 7D as the future upgrade path to take.

I know you mentioned portraits above but I know you do or have aspirations to do weddings too and so I feel you need to consider the above. I shot a wedding in a church last weekend and was at ISO 8000 - 10000... how would you cope with a 7D in that situation? You would really struggle, so know the limitations of the equipment you plan on getting or you'll come unstuck at some point and wish you'd considered them sooner :thumbs:
 
amumonamission said:
I don't think any offence was intended here, Phil is just giving his opinion for which I am grateful.

I am also grateful for your opinion and everyone else's on here :)

Since reading everyones opinion regarding ff, as I don't really use the wide angel much I probably won't be upgrading to ff at any time in the future anyway. I do now though know the difference between ef and ef-s lenses, I wouldn't have paid any attention before, whether that will be of any benefit to me in the future who knows...

Thanks everyone :)
Click to expand...

EF-S works on crop sensors but won't on an FF body. I bought the 17-55mm f/2.8 and then 6 months later upgraded to FF and had to sell it as a loss because it wasn't compatible. I knew this when I bought it and had budgeted for the loss, but just be aware that EF-S won't be usable on an FF camera.

Also crop has a 1.6 equivelant focal range... so 100mm is actually 160mm on a crop body... on a FF it's 100mm
 
ajax_andy said:
You will :lol:

BTW if you're shooting weddings or any other professional images then having a body of anything less than a 7D is BAD!!!

I've owned a 450D, a 7D, a 6D and a 5D MKIII... FF bodies give you brilliant high ISO performance, excellent IQ, better colour rendition, more detail in the images and loads of other benefits like being able to set a min shutter speed for AV mode and max auto ISO.

The 450D was useless as anything other than a amatuer camera, the 7D lasted me a year before I upgraded to the 5D MK III and the 6D came along as my 2nd body... oh I owned a 40D too at some point which I didn't like at all.

Recently I shot a wedding and my 5D MK III packed in at the reception, and at the time I only had the 7D as my 2nd camera and it was basically a back up... anyway I shot a series of images at ISO 3200 and couldn't believe how awful they looked compared to the FF pics only a few mins earlier. They were grainy, they weren't half as sharp and the colour were wishy washy.

I think where you're at in your business at the moment a 7D will do you fine... but you WILL want to upgrade at some point should things go well... also IMO you should have a back up better than a 550D, so I'd advise 2 7D's or even one FF and one 7D as the future upgrade path to take.

I know you mentioned portraits above but I know you do or have aspirations to do weddings too and so I feel you need to consider the above. I shot a wedding in a church last weekend and was at ISO 8000 - 10000... how would you cope with a 7D in that situation? You would really struggle, so know the limitations of the equipment you plan on getting or you'll come unstuck at some point and wish you'd considered them sooner :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Yes I completely see where you are coming from.

I do aim to upgrade in the future, I may not have done at the time of writing this but I bought a 7d, I absolutely love it!! I have to say that I do not regret buying it one single bit but there is always the urge to go better, after seeing how the 7d performs I would hate to have to go back to my 550d should the need arise.

A 5d would probably be my next upgrade but for me that would mean a lens upgrade also as the wide angle I currently own would not be compatible, so it's just when I have the funds really.

For someone in my position I would definitely recommend the 7d as an upgrade :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top