Gig photography - Light trails

MJ Stebbings

MJ Stebbings

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Can anyone explain to me how you get light trails in gig photography?
 
I don't know if this is the right way, but when I do it at event nights at uni, long exposure (Bulb) and then while holding the trigger down extend top to bottom focal length! However, as i said, i am not sure if this is the right way! lol
 
like already mentioned that is one way, if you want the light trails to be straight. the other classic way is.. set your camera from anywhere from 1/5-1 second shutter, have your flash on rear curtain sync, take the shoot, and while the shutter is open, roll the camera left and right in a circular motion, and then youll catch circular light trails behind your subject. hope that makes sense :)
 
Mr. Fish said:
like already mentioned that is one way, if you want the light trails to be straight. the other classic way is.. set your camera from anywhere from 1/5-1 second shutter, have your flash on rear curtain sync, take the shoot, and while the shutter is open, roll the camera left and right in a circular motion, and then youll catch circular light trails behind your subject. hope that makes sense :)
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That's what I do for dancing shots with light trails.
 
ShoeQueen said:
That's what I do for dancing shots with light trails.
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yea you can get some cool effects :) just experiment with shutter speeds / apertures .. depends on the location after all..just make sure you have it on rear curtain sync, as that second flash is what makes the subject/clubbers sharp :)
 
Mr. Fish said:
yea you can get some cool effects :) just experiment with shutter speeds / apertures .. depends on the location after all..just make sure you have it on rear curtain sync, as that second flash is what makes the subject/clubbers sharp :)
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I hadn't actually been doing that, I was following a suggestion by someone else who was doing the above but not using rear curtain and it seemed to work but sounds like rear curtain sync would be even better - so I'll try that - thanks! :)
 
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Jayst84 said:
Don't use rear curtain. All it does is make it so that you can't pick the point you expose your subject with the flash. First curtain allows you to frame and focus accurately and then move your camera around for the light trails.
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^^^ :thumbs:
 
Mr. Fish said:
hmm seems like theres 2 ways of doing it..personally ive got my best results from rear curtain sync..
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The main difference between 1st and 2nd curtain, as mentioned above, is with first curtain you can time the flash to get the right expression/movement of the main subject.

The other thing is if you're using E-TTL with 2nd curtain the pre-flash fires ahead of the main flash and subjects think the picture has been taken and move out of position.

It makes no difference to the overall exposure whether the flash fires first or second. Some folks mistakenly believe the flash firing last somehow overlay the ambient exposure more prominently, but it doesn't. If you want your main subejct to stand out, try to capture them against a dark area of background - and again 1st curtain is easier for that.

However, there is one advantage of 2nd curtain that can sometimes benefit things like portraits, and that's because the face for example is moving in front of the ambient blur instead of into it, you get a clearer face with less interference from the ambient. That can make a useful difference in some situations.
 
Hmmm, not sure that is what I mean, You get the light trails from the musicians as they move?
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Hmmm, not sure that is what I mean, You get the light trails from the musicians as they move?
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You get light trails from any lights in the shot. As you move the camera, they 'streak' across the frame.

Depending on the venue and the band, you may have problems if you want to shoot with flash whilst they're performing.
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Hmmm, not sure that is what I mean, You get the light trails from the musicians as they move?
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That isn't what I was explaining ;)

You get light trails/blur from anything that moves during a long exposure, and if it's something bright, like a light or shiny reflection off an instrument, it's very prominent.

But if they don't move, you can create your own trails by moving the camera. Either way, 1st or 2nd curtain sync works in the same way.
 
Hoppy, sorry bud, wasnt meant at you. Everyone had been insistent on moving the camera or zooming in/out. Thats not what I want at all! :lol: I want it to look like a progressive motion of the band member (if that makes sense)

So, its just purely long exposure, with the flash being used to freeze part of the image?
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Hoppy, sorry bud, wasnt meant at you. Everyone had been insistent on moving the camera or zooming in/out. Thats not what I want at all! :lol: I want it to look like a progressive motion of the band member (if that makes sense)

So, its just purely long exposure, with the flash being used to freeze part of the image?
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Yes. If you mean by progressive blur that the streaks/light trails get brighter, then slow movement will make them brighter and fast movement will be darker.
 
Its annoying but I cant find any examples of what I mean! :lol:
 
Crap scan from CD cover, but is this the kind of thing? If so, it's got to be some type of strobe flash hasn't it?


Alex MP by MarkBerry1963, on Flickr
 
Thats very exagerated! :lol:
 
Yes, that's a studio shot for an album cover, but I wondered if it showed in principal what you were looking for?

It's from 1981/2; did strobe flashes exist then? I can think of several other ways it could be made if not, though I'm not sure if any of them would work in a live setting!!!!
 
I just searched through a mates flickr page and found this shots. Not as much "trail" as I'm after but gives an example of what I mean:

Sample 1

Sample 2

Obviously it depends on how much movement the artist does as to the trail, but thought these two might give you a bit of an idea what I meant as I'm rubbish at explaining what I mean :lol:
 
OK. In both case I think that's a fixed camera position (because the fixed items like the ceiling and stage are not blurred), slow but still split second shutter speed, and a moving artist. I don't know whether or not flash was used, though I guess it was, but I'd guess if it was it was rear curtain, because the artists are moving away from the "trail", not into it?
 
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MJ Stebbings said:
I just searched through a mates flickr page and found this shots. Not as much "trail" as I'm after but gives an example of what I mean:

Sample 1

Sample 2

Obviously it depends on how much movement the artist does as to the trail, but thought these two might give you a bit of an idea what I meant as I'm rubbish at explaining what I mean :lol:
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That's just slow-sync flash, dragging the shutter, whatever you want to call it.

First one looks like it might be second curtain sync, but that's just taking a guess at the direction of movement and how the ambient blur falls. Second one could be either, as there's bluring either side of the movement.

BTW, second curtain sync is only enabled on Canons below 1/30sec (models vary slightly I think) and even then it's more like 'middle curtain' and doesn't really have much visible effect until longer speeds are used. Because of the way focal plane shutters work, you need a signifcant time differential between the first and second curtains running, like 1/8sec or 1/4sec and longer.
 
Ok, so I need to be using really slow shutters, second curtain sync and hope my hands are strady enough? :lol:

EDIT: Strady, I think that just shows a problem already! Haha! I meant steady :lol:
 
There was no exif data on those shots, but I suspect the shutter speed was still quite fast; a balance between fast enough to avoid camera shake so the background isn't blurred, and slow enough to NOT completely freeze the moving artist?

I've got no idea at all what that speed might be though? Somewhere near the slowest end of the "50mm lens = 1/50th second slowest to allow hand held, 100mm = 1/100th second, etc, rule of thumb??
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Ok, so I need to be using really slow shutters, second curtain sync and hope my hands are strady enough? :lol:

EDIT: Strady, I think that just shows a problem already! Haha! I meant steady :lol:
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Shouldn't worry too much about strady or not. In those pics there's a lot of ambient blurring as well in the background. Usually adds to the effect.

Just a guess, but it all suggests a longer shutter speed like 1/8sec or something. BTW, if you want to stop the background going red, gel the flash but often that adds to the atmosphere too.
 
I'm not worried about ambiant light colour, its just the blur of the movement, and if I can keep a steady hand :lol:
 
duttytd said:
I could be well off lol but when i shoot i try and stay away from this as i don't think its a nice effect. (each to their own)
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Flash freezes the subject whether you bounce it or not.
 
HoppyUK said:
Second one could be either, as there's bluring either side of the movement.
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I can only see blurring behind him? The bit in front of his nose is where his hand has dropped as his head moves forward and down.

I think!?
 
duttytd said:
I could be well off lol but when i shoot i try and stay away from this as i don't think its a nice effect. (each to their own)
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Haha, well, I just want to try something new at the local "dingy" club as I dont shoot at bigger venues, and when I do I like my crisp images. I'm just a bit bored of the club, so wanted to play around with something when I'm there. Plus, some of the local bands are very "Jumpy" and active on stage, so thought it would be cool for them too
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Haha, well, I just want to try something new at the local "dingy" club as I dont shoot at bigger venues, and when I do I like my crisp images. I'm just a bit bored of the club, so wanted to play around with something when I'm there. Plus, some of the local bands are very "Jumpy" and active on stage, so thought it would be cool for them too
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For good effect have you tried to set flashes around the stage to get starburst effects? Iv done this a few times and works very well
 
duttytd said:
For good effect have you tried to set flashes around the stage to get starburst effects? Iv done this a few times and works very well
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I dont trust the kids not to rob my flash guns :lol:
 
Thats nice!
Was a smoke machine used?
 
Thats a nice idea, just using that as your sole flash. It might be worth a go if I can blag some sucker into standing at the side of the stage.

I would love to get some more DJ shots, these are cracking
 
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