Gimbal tripod heads

I had both the Manfrotto 393 and the King Cobra and after evaluation with them and my 500 f4, I chose the Kirk King Cobra.
The 393 is good value for money, no question, but the Kirk is easier to transport and handle.
 
Hairyduck said:
Well, I thought I'd give you an update...

After going round to grumpybadgers one night and trying out the 2 gimbal heads he has there was no competition really I had to go for the wimberly type head. Not being prepared to spend wimberly money though I opted for the benro bh-2 copy which seems to be an almost identical copy/ripoff. I'm very happy with it, it's very smooth in use and appears to be very well made, here's a quick pic

benro.jpg


and the other side

benro2.jpg


Thankfully the money I saved allowed me to fit a pair of gitzo legs into my budget too, which are fantastic bits of kit
Click to expand...

just been looking at this one as well, seems superb value for money - is it as good as a wimberely? never used both, but need a gimbal so saving money is a bonus :) what gitzo legs did you get with it (y)

drew
 
buckas said:
just been looking at this one as well, seems superb value for money - is it as good as a wimberely? never used both, but need a gimbal so saving money is a bonus :) what gitzo legs did you get with it (y)

drew
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Benro are getting some very good rep. Their Sidekick is now on my wants list after I just received a Benro J-2 ball head the other day.

It's a copy of a £300 Arca Z1, supposed to be the best ball head in captivity, for which I paid £106 delivered, no extra taxes. The engineering is fantastic.

And right now I am going to order a carbon Benro C-257 M8 tripod, Gitzo copy, total cost delivered £174. The Gitzo equivalent is £450.

From here. Excellent prices and service, recommended to me by another TP member (y) http://stores.ebay.com/DCs-Photography-Store
 
Nice one Hoppy, Benro choices do sound good (y)

Am I right in thinking you use a sidekick with a ball head to create a gimbal head? Is there a downside to doing it this way, anything that a gimbal can do better which a sidekick + ball head can't? I do a lot of landscape shooting so ball head could be useful

primarily be using it with 50D + 400/5.6 prime - would i need any special lens plates or do they come with them?

also is there a list anywhere which says what benro model copied what gitzo model? :)

ps.http://www.benro.com/main/

drew
 
OK this may be a little off thread but I own both Benro and Gitzo legs. The Benro is heavier and no G-lock, the legs are tighter than Gitzo and the bubble level is a waste of time but bang for buck it is great value. I find the G-lock on the gitzo very flimsy and "plasticy" to set but it works. Things like tripod feet are interchangeable between the two so the benro prices win there. I also own a Benro ball head but the jury is out on that one, it creeps. Can't win them all I suppose.
 
buckas said:
Am I right in thinking you use a sidekick with a ball head to create a gimbal head? Is there a downside to doing it this way, anything that a gimbal can do better which a sidekick + ball head can't? I do a lot of landscape shooting so ball head could be useful

primarily be using it with 50D + 400/5.6 prime - would i need any special lens plates or do they come with them?
Click to expand...

Hi Drew

For something like a 400/5.6 a sidekick would be fine. I used to use one with lenses up to 400/4 with no problem, but with my 500, I found that the side-mount wasn't ideal to attach a lens in a hurry (I prefer the horizontal plate) and the weight distribution was harder to achieve. You also have another joint/ball to slip and for a big lens, you need a big ballhead.

I got rid of my sidekick to fund the full Wimberley for the 500/4. If Benro had been around at the time, I would probably have kept it and just added the Benro.

I do have the problem of not being prepared for a landscape shot and haven't really worked a solution for that as yet - although there are some options I am looking at.

Paul
 
grumpybadger said:
Hi Drew

For something like a 400/5.6 a sidekick would be fine. I used to use one with lenses up to 400/4 with no problem, but with my 500, I found that the side-mount wasn't ideal to attach a lens in a hurry (I prefer the horizontal plate) and the weight distribution was harder to achieve. You also have another joint/ball to slip and for a big lens, you need a big ballhead.

I got rid of my sidekick to fund the full Wimberley for the 500/4. If Benro had been around at the time, I would probably have kept it and just added the Benro.

I do have the problem of not being prepared for a landscape shot and haven't really worked a solution for that as yet - although there are some options I am looking at.

Paul
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I have a sidekick, on an Arca Swiss Z!, 200-400VR mounted. I have noticed that as Paul says mounting the lens requires concentration, and I have noticed the panning motion is not as smooth as it used to be, probably due to the eccentric loading of the head. Cleaning and re-greasing the panning base would cure this, however with the Arca Swiss this is not a simple DIY task.

I am seriously considering the move to the full Wimberley head, for the advantages Paul mentions above.
 
Thanks Donna + Paul + Martyn for the info (y) - hopefully :naughty: will be upgrading to 500/4 in the future so might just go for the gimbal straight off to save changing and get to grips with that. currently using a velbon sherpa 250r iirc for landscape stuff at the mo, which has done me fine (using 24-70 or 17-40 most of the time) but having nothing to support it when shooting with the 400 on is starting to bother me, in good light handeld is fine, but most days now are not the best light so upping ISO is the only thing to do, not to mention lethargy; love the look of the gimbal as well :) just got to decide on some good legs now, me being 6'3" might need to go for the taller (more expensive :crying:) options, or buy a chair :LOL:

cheers

drew
 
buckas said:
Nice one Hoppy, Benro choices do sound good (y)

Am I right in thinking you use a sidekick with a ball head to create a gimbal head? Is there a downside to doing it this way, anything that a gimbal can do better which a sidekick + ball head can't? I do a lot of landscape shooting so ball head could be useful

primarily be using it with 50D + 400/5.6 prime - would i need any special lens plates or do they come with them?

also is there a list anywhere which says what benro model copied what gitzo model? :)

ps.http://www.benro.com/main/

drew
Click to expand...

Drew I don't actually own any gimbal ATM. I have only tried them in various shops and at shows etc. They all 'work' and I think there is a degreee of subjectivity as to which is best, and various brands, eg Manfrotto looks a bit basic and crude but it has no sideways loading and most folks really rate it in use. Good info from GB and if I had a big lens like 500 or 600 4 I really don't see the point in getting anything less than the full monty with a solid horizontal platform.

But for smaller lenses I think the sidekick style, which slots into your Arca head plate, is just as good as the bigger version with integral tripod fitting, provided of course that your ball head has a good panning action. There should not any extra movement in there if the ball head is angled hard down into its drop slot.

Then if you're okay with that principle, the sidekick is smaller, lighter, cheaper, and just slots in place without removing the tripod head. It's a convenience thing.

I don't know of a list of what Benro products are copies of. I think it is the general design and appearance that is copied, rather than every detail mm by mm. For example, the J-series heads are clearly copies of the Arca Z1, but in a wide range of sizes that Arca don't make.
 
thanks fella for the info - as i'd be starting without anything, price of ball head and sidekick is more than 1x gimbal so will go with that, lol - just need to sort out some good legs :)

drew
 
For me, the Feisol has all the bulkiness issues of the Manfrotto and the price issues of the Wimberley (well nearly!) Worst of both worlds...
 
lol! just found out about Jobu Design gimbals aswell, seem nice - anyone opinions on these? :)

drew
 
Sue (whooshdemon) has a Jobu Jr 2 and its a great little device for lightweight travel. It's the only lightweight gimbal I know of with a horizontal plate for mounting the lenses. She uses it with 300/2.8 and its pretty good. It's smooth enough to track birds in flight well but, being lighter, it is a touch "boingy" so you won't reliably get the sharp 1/15s shots on a 500 that you can get with a Wimberley,

The bigger one is used by mho on here (one of the Black Widow ones) and he speaks very highly of it. Again, I have an issue with side mounting a long lens but others are fine with it and there are other options.

Jobu UK dealer is www.tripodsheadsgimbals.co.uk
 
buckas said:
lol! just found out about Jobu Design gimbals aswell, seem nice - anyone opinions on these? :)
Click to expand...

I've been using a Jobu Black Widow LW for a few years now and am very impressed with it - the movement is nice and smooth and it's very stable. I have got decent shots shooting at slow shutters with 500 f4 and 1.4x tc, the shot below was at 1/60th.

redflankedbluetail_011108_0020.jpg


I recently got one of the new Jobu BW-Pro gimbals, it is an excellent bit of gear, seems even better than the BW-LW. Just need to get out birding and give it a proper road test.
 
nice one PCV :)

grumpybadger said:
Sue (whooshdemon) has a Jobu Jr 2 and its a great little device for lightweight travel. It's the only lightweight gimbal I know of with a horizontal plate for mounting the lenses. She uses it with 300/2.8 and its pretty good. It's smooth enough to track birds in flight well but, being lighter, it is a touch "boingy" so you won't reliably get the sharp 1/15s shots on a 500 that you can get with a Wimberley,

The bigger one is used by mho on here (one of the Black Widow ones) and he speaks very highly of it. Again, I have an issue with side mounting a long lens but others are fine with it and there are other options.

Jobu UK dealer is www.tripodsheadsgimbals.co.uk
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cheers fella, yeh know what you mean about the side mounting - it goes against anything which you'd initially think how to support something heavy, they seem to work though well enough :)

http://www.tripods-heads-gimbals.com/products/gimbals/jobu_design_gimbal_heads/

drew
 
buckas said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pY1VT8jaEA

wimberley type looks much nicer/easier to operate
Click to expand...

buckas said:
found the GH-2 here for £242 > http://www.linkdelight.com/index.ph...ns/Detailed-product-flyer.html?recurrency=GBP

shipping is £19 so not much in it (longer returns time though, 30 instead of 7)
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Good links there buckas, thanks. Found a 150cm octabox for thirty quid on LinkDelight :D Might have to get FlashInThePan on to those (y)

Found some more gimbals on my travels, made by Triopo, another Chinese manufacturer. Three quite serious looking contenders here which seem to sell between £200-300 http://www.triopo.cn/en/products/h_dg.html

I know nothing about Triopo other than I seem to recall the name in favourable context. Tracked down a very thorough review of ball-heads here http://www.traumflieger.de/desktop/ballhead/ballheads.php which although it's in German and I can't read a word, it's quite clear that Benro come out as excellent performers and great value, and the Triopo B-2 does astonishingly well against the £300 opposition considering it can be had for £44 :eek:

The Chinese are coming... ;)
 
i bet - dare to think what could happen :eek:

HoppyUK said:
Good links there buckas, thanks. Found a 150cm octabox for thirty quid on LinkDelight :D Might have to get FlashInThePan on to those (y)

Found some more gimbals on my travels, made by Triopo, another Chinese manufacturer. Three quite serious looking contenders here which seem to sell between £200-300 http://www.triopo.cn/en/products/h_dg.html

I know nothing about Triopo other than I seem to recall the name in favourable context. Tracked down a very thorough review of ball-heads here http://www.traumflieger.de/desktop/ballhead/ballheads.php which although it's in German and I can't read a word, it's quite clear that Benro come out as excellent performers and great value, and the Triopo B-2 does astonishingly well against the £300 opposition considering it can be had for £44 :eek:

The Chinese are coming... ;)
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hah yeh, they do seem good

thanks for the extra choices - that link kinda translated http://uk.babelfish.yahoo.com/trans...ead/ballheads.php&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

yeh great price for that ballhead

found some triopo's on ebay http://cameras-photo.shop.ebay.SPAM...ries-/15215/i.html?LH_AvailTo=127&_nkw=triopo feedback reviews are a bit dodgy though, that dc-stuff store had 100% :)
 
Is benro also known as Induro as well?

some people on naturescapes forums think so

http://www.indurogear.com/main/

teamwork seem to stock them http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=74_921 at quite a bit more than ebay!! (dcstuffs page)

also story about benro/gitzo

gitzo was looking to outsource it's legs to china a couple years ago. they picked up on this company, yilee precision in guangzhou (by hong kong), and signed them to a deal. gitzo taught them everything, practically gave the factory blueprints. what gitzo didn't know, yilee set up a dummy corp called benro and was building an exact copy of the gitzo factory simultaneously, practically on the other side of the hill (common story for businesses that aren't careful outsourcing in china). gitzo started noticing exact copies of their gear on the shelves of beijing and shanghai, with "benro" in place of "gitzo" and got just a wee bit upset. gitzo couldn't do anything, cause it's china, and they care fark all for intellectual property, especially considering gitzo is a foreign co and benro is local. after gitzo got out, benro established itself as a legit co in china, and has got the rep as de facto proware for tripods amongst chinese photographers.
Click to expand...
 
buckas said:
Is benro also known as Induro as well?

some people on naturescapes forums think so

http://www.indurogear.com/main/

teamwork seem to stock them http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=74_921 at quite a bit more than ebay!! (dcstuffs page)

also story about benro/gitzo
Click to expand...

Well they look similar, if not identical. Also a strong Manfrotto look to some of the heads. Who knows who makes what :shrug: From what little I know about Japanese brands/manufacturers, what you see is never the whole story, and when you think you know the whole story, you are merely at the start of the maze. China looks like an even bigger maze.

So many of these products 'look' the same or very similar, but I don't think that's the point. It's the quality that matters, and that's what you cannot see.

I have chosen a Benro tripod and head because the spec meets my needs but most importantly I have read a lot about them from respected sources that have actually used them. And without exception I hear comments along the lines of "excellent quality" and "superb value". The fact that they look like Gitzo and Arca obviously helps but who knows what goes on underneather the shiny carbon legs and the Arca look-alike anodising? I've taken a punt and got me what looks to be '£800 worth' of tripod and head for under £300. So far so good, but ask me again in ten years.

As for Chinese knock-off factories like Benro ripping off the big brands' intellectual property, well I'm less than convinced there's too much of a case to answer in this particular case. How much intellectual property is invloved in the production of a tripod with three telescoping legs and a hinged platform, or a ball + socket head that looks pretty much the same as any other ball + socket head (who copied who - Arca, Markins, Kirk etc?). If anybody wanted to produce a gimbal head, it's hardly a work of genius to come up with a bit of bent tube with two high quality bearings at either end. It's about quality rather than design.

I don't think you can really accuse anybody of copying the finest materials and the highest standards of engineering.

Edit: having said that, I read somewhere that Benro had a patent infringement problem, and I'm guessing that it might relate to their non-spherical ball head (Arca patent?) which has been withdrawn in some countries. I dunno, this stuff is all very unclear and confusing. At the end of the day, I thought the substantial saving was worth the risk, coupled to the fact that there is not much to go wrong with a tripod, but if I drop it and crack a leg or something, I don't suppose Gitzo will be too keen to help me out, especially when I tell them I think they've been ripping us off for years :eek: :LOL:
 
yeh completely agree fella, wasn't going against them, just finding out more info - love getting stuff for a knock down price, especially if it's as good as the best out there. i'm going to take the punt aswell :)

drew
 
buckas said:
yeh completely agree fella, wasn't going against them, just finding out more info - love getting stuff for a knock down price, especially if it's as good as the best out there. i'm going to take the punt aswell :)

drew
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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you had, not at all. I'm just trying to find stuff out the same. It's been a good thread (y)

At the end of the day you've got to jump one way or the other. Good luck to us both ;)
 
looking at the benro gh-2, it comes with a PL-100 plate - judging as i'm using it with the 400/5.6 for the time being is it worth getting a smaller plate? if so which one ? :help:

*edit*

for anyone else - found the wimberley one for 400/5.6 is P-20, which after some investigation is 98mm long so PL-100 (100mm) is bang on, top dollar
 
Longer lens plates are for balance - depends on the weight of the camera, with/without grip, and the position of the collar on the lens.

I wouldn't have thought a light combo like 50D and 400 5.6 should need anything too unusual - give it a try and see where the balance point is. The only practical downside to having too long a plate is that it gets in the way.

I have a 70mm plate on my 100-400L if that helps.
 
Ordered! (y):D

GH-2 in black with PL-100 plate + C-257 M8 Carbon Tripod (y) hopefully future proofed (apart from new plate) when i get the 500mm, whenever that may be :)

thanks for all your help Hoppy, Paul, Donna, everyone :)

drew
 
both arrived today - Superb products! fast shipping, very well packed as well

iphone pic
photoyol.jpg


love the tripod, may get a ball head as well now

deffo recommend products /service:)

drew
 
buckas said:
both arrived today - Superb products! fast shipping, very well packed as well

iphone pic
photoyol.jpg


love the tripod, may get a ball head as well now

deffo recommend products /service:)

drew
Click to expand...

Hi Buckas,

Where did you end up buying the Benro gear from in the end?

I am interested in the gimbal head.

Cheers,

Paul
 
seltechpc said:
Hi Buckas,

Where did you end up buying the Benro gear from in the end?

I am interested in the gimbal head.

Cheers,

Paul
Click to expand...

I think from here http://stores.ebay.com/DCs-Photogra...18QQ_sidZ896782438QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

My tripod arrived from them today, also a C-257 M8, 3-section carbon $278=£170 delivered as gift, no taxes. Took about a week, very well packed.

Having played with it today, I am very pleased. I don't have a Gitzo to compare but from recent memory it appears to be every bit as good. Really beautifully engineered. However, I have three Manfrottos of similar basic spec and it's a lot better than they are - much lighter (obviously, carbon vs ally) but also a lot more rigid. It has a lot less flex. Engineering is several notches higher.

My Benro J-2 ball head now sits on top, bought from the same place a couple of weeks ago. Fantastic quality again. This gear seems such good value I'm temped to get another travel tripod but since the new one is so light I think I'll just use that for everything.

Highly recommended. One thing to note is that you save quite a bit more if you buy the tripod and head together, including a camera plate and free little hot-shoe spirit level :)
 
Thanks for that info Hoppy.

I had looked a few months ago at Benro from China, as I was looking for a Gitzo like quality tripod that was light and also as rigid as possible to take when I go hill walking. In the end I chickened out and bought a Manfrotto 190 CF tripod. To be fair it is not bad and it is light.

I think the Benro would, in hindsight, have been a much better bet from all I have read now and what you tell me. Hay Ho, that's life!

I originally was following this thread for the gimballed head debate as I was looking at the Manfrotto 393 as a reasonable cost alternative, but like many was a bit underwhelmed by it's appearance. The Benro kit does now seem the way to go and solve several problems at a stroke.

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this illuminating thread.

Paul
 
I've got the Triopo DG-1 no problems for amateur use but it is plate fussy - works fine with Kirk style plates [as per the one its supplied with] but doesn't work with double 'V' profiled plates [sorry don't know the term for those].
 
Hairyduck said:
Well, I thought I'd give you an update...

After going round to grumpybadgers one night and trying out the 2 gimbal heads he has there was no competition really I had to go for the wimberly type head. Not being prepared to spend wimberly money though I opted for the benro bh-2 copy which seems to be an almost identical copy/ripoff. I'm very happy with it, it's very smooth in use and appears to be very well made, here's a quick pic

benro.jpg


and the other side

benro2.jpg


Thankfully the money I saved allowed me to fit a pair of gitzo legs into my budget too, which are fantastic bits of kit
Click to expand...

buckas said:
both arrived today - Superb products! fast shipping, very well packed as well

iphone pic
photoyol.jpg


love the tripod, may get a ball head as well now

deffo recommend products /service:)

drew
Click to expand...

hello hairyduck & buckas,

i signed up for this forum to ask you this question. after months of use with your gh-2 what are your user experiences with it? any problems/headaches/disasters?
 
no problems to date. very well built, worked straight out the box - used it quite a lot on saturday....i've never had a gimbal head before so it's so much nicer to have something supporting the lens rather than handholding, also especially when you're not shooting it's just sitting there waiting in whatever position you left it in (after adjusting balance)

fully recommend it !
 
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