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Godox Witstro AD600B TTL & HSS
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I have a couple of the TTL version, it does what it says on the tin and is a great part of a much wider system.
Mike
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Agree - the non-TTL version seems like the pick if you're on a budget and a lot of users might never use auto-TTL anyway.
TBH I'm a bit confused by the substantial price difference - best part of £200 - when the non-TTL version must have 99% of the functionality (including HSS) already in place. Eg Godox sells the cute little TT350 speedlite, that has full auto-TTL capability and a master transmitter built in, all for £70.
Garry Edwards
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Agreed. Real world, it costs little or almost nothing to add TTL, but then it's probably a case of supply and demand - Godox products tend to appeal to people who feel that they must have all of the features, whether they are useful to them or not, and if people are prepared to pay so much extra for what is, in most cases, no more than a marketing bullet point, I suppose we can't blame Godox for taking their money
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I think that people are missing something and that is the development of the TTL itself, as cameras change there will be a need for firmware updates, we have already seen plenty of this.
A second point may be comparative pricing, price much higher than your competitors and you lose market share, price too low and you lose profits.
Mike
A second point may be comparative pricing, price much higher than your competitors and you lose market share, price too low and you lose profits.
Mike
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I think TTL is likely to be more useful for on camera speedlights than studio flash. I use mine with a flash meter outdoors and love the results. I don't personally think there is a need for TTL for these units. I'm certainly no expert, but I prefer to use these manually, hence saving the extra cash and going for the non-TTL version.
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Flash exposure is very sensitive to distance, so auto-TTL is great when the flash to subject distance is changing too quickly for you to make manual adjustments. That might apply to a lot of outdoor action subjects if they're coming towards you, though when the movement is predictable - as it usually is - the common workaround is to pick a spot, set everything up for that, and wait for your subject to arrive. In practise that covers most things and works very well. You may only get one shot per pass, but then the lighting arrangement will probably be set up to cover only just one spot optimally, and the flash might not recycle fast enough for more shots either.
It's random and unpredictable movement/distance where auto-TTL is most useful, run n gun kind of situations when you're moving quickly between solo portraits and couples and groups, using direct flash one minute and bouncing the next, but that's more like a job for speedlites rather than a big strobe unit on a stand. My choice would be to go for the cheaper manual and HSS version of the AD600, and use the cost saving to get a speedlite like the excellent Godox AD860ii, or put it towards an AD200 where auto-TTL really plays to their mobility.
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DG Phototraining
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I don't think you've said what you're wanting to shoot, but if its portraits then for me its a no-brainer - manual flash all the way
I've used TTL in the past (specifically HSS) and had varying results from one shot to the next, and mostly when zooming in & out when it just can't cope properly as TTL
If you find shooting outdoors you really want fairly wide apertures but manual flash needing to be within your camera's sync speed doesn't give you wide enough apertures then that's when such as the 3-stop NDs come in useful (as cropped up in another thread recently)
If you have the money though buy the TTL one, you don't have to use it if you find (like me) it just doesn't work as well as you'd like
Dave
I've used TTL in the past (specifically HSS) and had varying results from one shot to the next, and mostly when zooming in & out when it just can't cope properly as TTL
If you find shooting outdoors you really want fairly wide apertures but manual flash needing to be within your camera's sync speed doesn't give you wide enough apertures then that's when such as the 3-stop NDs come in useful (as cropped up in another thread recently)
If you have the money though buy the TTL one, you don't have to use it if you find (like me) it just doesn't work as well as you'd like
Dave
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The non TTL version supports HSS and this works well. I guess if you can afford the TTL version then there's no harm in buying it. You just may never use it. But if you feel you need to, you have the option. I'll never need it as I'll use a speed light for those type of shots.
Thanks. It will be for outdoor portrait shoots. Even on manual, it's easy enough to change the flash power and I S t think it take sip that much time...
However, long term, I want to get into doing weddings so TTL may come in use for those outdoor couple shoots...?
However, long term, I want to get into doing weddings so TTL may come in use for those outdoor couple shoots...?
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i used one (non ttl) for some formal shots at a wedding 2 weeks ago. its very easy to adjust the power. this can also be done on the x-1t trigger, so no need to move away from the spot you are shooting from
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The other problem with auto-TTL flash is inconsistent exposures that are tricky for the camera to work out (the flash plays no part, it simply responds to instructions).
Flash subjects tend to be difficult anyway, often with brightly lit people in the foreground against a dark background, where the change from a white top to a dark jacket can throw things out. Then balancing the flash with ambient light is another problem where optimum flash output is highly variable at the best of times, according to the effect you're after. Evaluative/matrix metering can be too clever for its own good in these situations, sometimes getting it dead right and then a slight change to framing or zooming can fox it and be way off. Most cameras have an option to switch to centre-weighted metering for flash and that tends to be more predictable and less prone to big shifts.
But manual is definitely the preferred option when you have a couple of moments to think and make changes. You always know where you are on manual. With Godox, I much prefer the XT32 trigger with its clear display and big scroll wheel for direct access to power adjustment - really nice, quick and easy, highly recommended - but it doesn't do auto-TTL, just manual and HSS, and only available for Canon and Nikon currently I think.
Edit: just to add, auto-TTL is also handy if you don't know what you're doing Flash can be confusing and there are even professionals on here that openly admit they avoid it for just that reason. But it's not hard, you just need to understand how light works (pretty simple, easy and predictable) and get your head around it with some practise. Then flash opens up a whole new level of creative opportunity, and is another of those things that differentiates proper photographers from the iPhone army.
Flash subjects tend to be difficult anyway, often with brightly lit people in the foreground against a dark background, where the change from a white top to a dark jacket can throw things out. Then balancing the flash with ambient light is another problem where optimum flash output is highly variable at the best of times, according to the effect you're after. Evaluative/matrix metering can be too clever for its own good in these situations, sometimes getting it dead right and then a slight change to framing or zooming can fox it and be way off. Most cameras have an option to switch to centre-weighted metering for flash and that tends to be more predictable and less prone to big shifts.
But manual is definitely the preferred option when you have a couple of moments to think and make changes. You always know where you are on manual. With Godox, I much prefer the XT32 trigger with its clear display and big scroll wheel for direct access to power adjustment - really nice, quick and easy, highly recommended - but it doesn't do auto-TTL, just manual and HSS, and only available for Canon and Nikon currently I think.
Edit: just to add, auto-TTL is also handy if you don't know what you're doing
Flash can be confusing and there are even professionals on here that openly admit they avoid it for just that reason. But it's not hard, you just need to understand how light works (pretty simple, easy and predictable) and get your head around it with some practise. Then flash opens up a whole new level of creative opportunity, and is another of those things that differentiates proper photographers from the iPhone army.
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DG Phototraining
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Not for me it doesn't, all my WOW OCF shoots are manual, oh and a £50 speedlight too
Unless I'm being flash (see what I did there) and use 2 £50 speedlights
Dave
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Some great responses, thanks. Im tempted to save myself the money and go for the manual 600 model. I have used my friends atom 180 strobe a few times on manual each time and it seems easy enough to change the power on it and I quite like his so I think I'm now swaying towards the manual HSS one...For me, the trouble I have is setting the ambient light to how I want it, especially doing it quick at weddings as there is no time to faff About. Something I need to work on...but I do feel a bit more comfortable using flash to a degree...
DG Phototraining
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I find quite a few struggle with this (I teach how to do it, but this isn't a sales pitch lol)
I also find that there's often a "lightbulb" moment when the penny finally drops and its easy ever after leaving you wondering why you ever found it confusing - that's happened to several people I've worked with now, its amusing when it happens
Once you've clicked with the how to sort the background you then need to work on the how best to light the subject, and this is back to basic lighting patterns and body/face types; too many seem to think that just adding light is enough, its not
So, buy whatever light & trigger you fancy (like Hoppy I prefer a trigger that can alter the flash power too, its sooooooo much easier that way), then off you go to play with a mate/wife as the subject and play away until it clicks - enjoy
Dave
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Dave has put his finger on it. Think of it as two separate exposures - ambient daylight, plus flash - and always start with the daylight exposure as that sets the level you've got to balance the flash around. Then just get stuck in and practise. That light bulb moment will follow
As I mentioned, the Godox XT32 trigger is really easy to use for manual control. You don't have to touch the flash unit at all - just turn that big dial on the XT32 that's right in front of your nose and magic happens
Thanks, everyone. Great advise too, Dave.
The trigger you mention (XT32) does that come with the 600 flash kit. Does that not come wth a trigger anyway? The more I think about it, I think the manual one is the way to go...still open to other opinions! I will be using it purely for outdoor portrait shoots and weddings.
The trigger you mention (XT32) does that come with the 600 flash kit. Does that not come wth a trigger anyway? The more I think about it, I think the manual one is the way to go...still open to other opinions! I will be using it purely for outdoor portrait shoots and weddings.
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The 600 has a built in trigger, you will need to buy the XT32 separately.Thanks, everyone. Great advise too, Dave.
The trigger you mention (XT32) does that come with the 600 flash kit. Does that not come wth a trigger anyway? The more I think about it, I think the manual one is the way to go...still open to other opinions! I will be using it purely for outdoor portrait shoots and weddings.
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Thanks, everyone. Great advise too, Dave.
The trigger you mention (XT32) does that come with the 600 flash kit. Does that not come wth a trigger anyway? The more I think about it, I think the manual one is the way to go...still open to other opinions! I will be using it purely for outdoor portrait shoots and weddings.
You can buy the flash unit on its own (it has a built-in receiver) or in a kit of various bits and pieces that dealers put together to tempt you to spend a little more. Can save a few quid, but only if you need the extras. Obviously, if you don't already have a trigger unit, then you'll need that though it's mostly the X1T trigger that gets bundled in the kits. This is a very good trigger with more features than the XT32, including auto-TTL control of course, but it's quite fiddly to use and the screen is poor - hard to see from some from angles.
But if you don't have auto-TTL anyway, the XT32 has all you need and is way easier/nicer to use IMHO. When working outdoors, easy power control is important because the ambient light can change by the second on a breezy/cloudy day and when under pressure you need controls that are fast and instinctive. On that front, the XT32 wins hands down.
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If you get the TTL version then you need the X1 trigger, if getting the manual version then the XT32 has a nicer interface, personally i have both because it makes sense at that price.
Mike
Mike
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Yes, me too - I have both, mainly as back-up. Not that they're unreliable (zero probs so far) but it's so easy to drop one and then you might be stuffed (though Godox speedlites can also act as a master trigger unit).
Well, I ended up ordering the TTL version instead. Two weddings I have next year are in fancybig church venues so I think it may come in useful there. I really didn't want to pay the £200 extra! Oh well. What bugs me as well as that there is no trigger supplied and you have to buy this separately so I've had to fork another £43 on a TTL trigger. For that kind of money it should be included!
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Because it is multi brand in operation it actually makes sense to sell the trigger separately given all the trigger options and anyway for the power and functionality you will find it hard to beat at that price.
Mike
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Triggers are always sold separately unless part of a kit. Most photographers will have multiple lights, but only need one trigger.
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My new strobe should arrive later today.
I was watching this video below and the guy uses two flashes to get the desired picture. My question is, does he use both the flashes in HSS mode? Or just the main strobe. Thanks.
Video?
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HSS is dictated by the camera. If the shutter speed is above max x-sync, it's automatically enabled; if it isn't, it's not. There's a big loss of brightness with HSS so it's only used when necessary.
Edit: if you're new to flash, the AD600 is perhaps not the easiest way to start. You'll maybe learn quicker, and more easily, by experimenting with a good speedlite first
Edit: if you're new to flash, the AD600 is perhaps not the easiest way to start. You'll maybe learn quicker, and more easily, by experimenting with a good speedlite first
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Garry Edwards
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As above, although the loss of power isn't as terrible when the shutter speed (as with this shoot) is only 1/500th sec.HSS is dictated by the camera. If the shutter speed is above max x-sync, it's automatically enabled; if it isn't, it's not. There's a big loss of brightness with HSS so it's only used when necessary.
Edit: if you're new to flash, the AD600 is perhaps not the easiest way to start. You'll maybe learn quicker, and more easily, by experimenting with a good speedlite first
To the OP, if you think about it, even without the clever technology that auto switches to HSS, it's pretty obvious that any flash that isn't set to HSS cannot work when the shutter speed is above the native shutter speed (which is typically 1/200th - 1/250th sec)
I watched the video and frankly I don't know what it's supposed to show - I'm assuming that it's there either to promote Godox products or training courses or similar, but I don't think it helps with technique...
1. It was a dull day, and using a giant softbox in that situation to reduce the harsh shadows that weren't even there was not only pointless but also (effectively) dramatically reduced the small amount of power available - a standard reflector would have made much more sense.
2. They were using a C Stand - why? Big, heavy, far from ideal on a location shoot and has a small footprint, so less than ideal if there's any wind.
3. Experienced photographers don't add a large softbox to a flash fitted to a light stand, that's just crazy. The flash is added to the softbox.
4. The level of flash was so low that it contributed little or nothing to the final results
5. 1/500th sec (even when using a very wide angle lens) isn't much of a speed for freezing action, if I had been doing this shot I think I would have
a. Forgotten about HSS, would have shot at maximun synch speed and would have used a ND filter on the lens (if necessary) and would have used a reasonably short flash duration to create a sharp image
b. Used a standard reflector, or even a high intensity reflector, to maximise light output, which would have allowed me to create light, not just to add to what was already there.
Or, if all that I wanted was a little bit of fill light, I would have just used a hotshoe flashgun instead
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I find the X1T trigger quite fiddly Richard, the thing I really don't like is that you set the stop you want then when you go to change it up or down you instinctively press the button and it scrolls up or down to the next group then you have to scroll and change again, it's very fiddly like that, unless their is a way of stopping this I don't know about, I do like the look of the XT32 though, the screen looks nice and big, do you get the same sort of problems with the XT32 as the X1T or is it just the way I'm using it ?
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My thoughts exactly, and we're not the only ones - Godox is working on a revised X1T apparently. It's a very capable trigger with lots of features, but the ones you want to use all the time need several less than intuitive button presses, plus a good look at the screen which isn't great at the best of times and impossible to read from slightly above - which is where it always seems to be for me.
In contast, the XT32 has a much clearer screen with bold digits, easy to view, and power adjustment is just a direct click on the scroll wheel for the active Group. One touch, and it's done - you don't even have to look. For a different Group, press one of the five clearly labelled direct-access buttons (doubling to ten buttons with a longer press) and scroll to the Group (either back or forth), confirm, and then you're in
It's both easier/faster, but also perfectly logical so you don't get confused and frustrated when you go the wrong way and have to start again.While we're on this, triggers are one of my hobby horses. They've generally just evolved into the often confusing mess we have now, as new features have been bolted on, and they could use a ground-up rethink. They are now the main user-interface, the part we use all the time (there's actually no need to go near the head itself) and also play a key role in what we think of the entire system. I'd be happy to pay substantially more for something with a tilting colour touch-screen or whatever, something really good.
On the other hand, the new Godox A1 iPhone sync thingy might paint the way forward via a smartphone app - there's a kind of inevitability about it. So just a tiny little linking device in the hot-shoe with everything controlled from your phone. It's actually already here. Needs a bit of work yet, but I think that's going to be the answer
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