Going back to a crop sensor

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#1
I am currently looking to move back to a crop sensor camera. I am very much a Nikon fan, never been too keen on Canon but could be persuaded. I currently have a Panasonic Lumix G80 but am not really getting on with it. I previously had a Nikon D7000 which I wish I hadn't changed from.
As I am looking to move back I was wondering should I go for a D7200 if I can afford it or would the difference in cost about £250 be better put towards a lens? And go with a D7000. I have found 16mp more than enough resolution for what I do with my images.
 
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#2
What subjects do you shoot? What is it specifically about the G80 that you don't get on with? Does it actually have anything to do with the sensor size or is it the body/menu layout?
 
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#3
How about something like a Fuji X-T1, crop sensor mirrorless in a dslr style body
 
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#5
D7200 is a cracking camera, you won't be sorry if you don't need the speed and buffer of the D500.
 
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#6
AM I suffering Déjà vu here or did you not post the same thread a while back? If I'm right, the general consensus was to go back to Nikon if that's what you're happier using, even I suggested this [after initially being one of those who recommended you the G80]. What happened there?

It's all personal preference with these things, only you can decide. I went from Nikon to Fuji to Panasonic and tbh never found a whole heap of difference. I've stuck with the G80 over a year now because it's so easy to use and the results are up there with any crop sensor - bar when you push into higher ISO. I work around this by making use of the excellent IBIS on this body. If it's high ISO shooting you like to do a lot then yes, a D7200 will be much, much better. I would go for that if I were you.
 
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#8
Just to add - if you can sell your G80 you could get a D7200 used for less than £500 on MPB, if your G80 is in good nick you could almost get that much if you have some extras
 
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#9
What subjects do you shoot? What is it specifically about the G80 that you don't get on with? Does it actually have anything to do with the sensor size or is it the body/menu layout?
It's the ergonomics of the camera I don't get on with, the camera itself technology wise is great. I am struggling to adapt to using it.

How about something like a Fuji X-T1, crop sensor mirrorless in a dslr style body
I like the X-T1 but it feels a bit fiddly in the hand to me if that makes sense?

Is it mirrorless you don’t like and just prefer DSLR? If so go for it, there are some good secondhand bargains around.
The price of dSLR seems to be dropping quite a bit recently.

D7200 is a cracking camera, you won't be sorry if you don't need the speed and buffer of the D500.
Not sure if I need the speed of the D7200 to be honest I mostly shoot static objects landscape/cityscape etc

AM I suffering Déjà vu here or did you not post the same thread a while back? If I'm right, the general consensus was to go back to Nikon if that's what you're happier using, even I suggested this [after initially being one of those who recommended you the G80]. What happened there?

It's all personal preference with these things, only you can decide. I went from Nikon to Fuji to Panasonic and tbh never found a whole heap of difference. I've stuck with the G80 over a year now because it's so easy to use and the results are up there with any crop sensor - bar when you push into higher ISO. I work around this by making use of the excellent IBIS on this body. If it's high ISO shooting you like to do a lot then yes, a D7200 will be much, much better. I would go for that if I were you.
Yes déjà vu, I tried to stick with the G80 for a bit longer and try to get used to it but it just doesn't seem to be working for me. It's a great camera technology wise, I just don't seem to be able to gel with it.

I've used both the D7000 and D7200 professionally and the D7200 is much better - so if you can, I'd suggest that one

Dave
I am not sure if I need the gains of the D7200 over the D7000 to make it worth getting one. I am happy with 16mp for my needs and don't really need the FPS etc. So wondering is it worth putting the money towards glass instead.
 
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#10
Just to add - if you can sell your G80 you could get a D7200 used for less than £500 on MPB, if your G80 is in good nick you could almost get that much if you have some extras
I think I might try some quotes for MPB etc to see what value my gear is, not sure if I could deal with trying to sell it all privately I find trading in less hassle. I always want s could of lenses too.
 
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#11
I think I might try some quotes for MPB etc to see what value my gear is, not sure if I could deal with trying to sell it all privately I find trading in less hassle. I always want s could of lenses too.
It does save time and hardship just trading in, but obviously you won't get near the amount you could get privately. The G80 is still selling locally here for reasonable prices, there's much less competition than in the UK though. We don't really have any decent used sites like MPB or WEX and a lot of people just prefer to pay a bit more and buy local/used. I would see what MPB offer and maybe advertise it on here for a bit more, though factor in the fact that MPB pay for collection and then delivery of whatever you trade for, so add that in too.
 
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#12
It does save time and hardship just trading in, but obviously you won't get near the amount you could get privately. The G80 is still selling locally here for reasonable prices, there's much less competition than in the UK though. We don't really have any decent used sites like MPB or WEX and a lot of people just prefer to pay a bit more and buy local/used. I would see what MPB offer and maybe advertise it on here for a bit more, though factor in the fact that MPB pay for collection and then delivery of whatever you trade for, so add that in too.
Had that thought on my way home from work. Might stick it up here the in classifieds for a couple of weeks and see what I can sell then trade whatever is left over. Should net me a little more cash then.
 
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#13
to be honest I find things tend to stick on here your far better off with e.bay , buts thats just my gut feeling
 
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#16
I used a D7000 for 4 or 5 years, and now use a D7200. For some reason I never particularly liked the files from the D7000 - nothing to do with MP, because I still love the files from my D80, which only had 10.2 of them. I definitely prefer the files from the D7200 over the D7000. I wish I could explain just why, but I'm afraid I can't.

Incidentally, I used the same lenses on both models, mostly a Nikon 17-55 f2.8 and a Sigma 50mm f1.4 DG, so both very good lenses. I also have an old nikon 18-70 kit lens. The feeling remains constant, no matter whether cheap or expensive glass.
 
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#17
I have recently gone back to a crop sensor as well , luckily having used many different makes and models over the years I had a reference point and pulled up different combos from my Flickr stream . I decided that the nicest shots came from a Nikon D300S , so after a few weeks of looking at a lot of very overpriced bodies I eventually found a super one with a lot of extras for just over £200 my original intent was to use it with the couple of legacy Nikon m/f lenses I have , but a chance shopping trip saw me getting a bnib sigma 150-600 for around half price from a shop that’s closing down soon . Genuine sale confirmed by sigma with a 3 year warranty applied .. very pleased with the results to .
 
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#18
I like m4/3 for travel photography, camera and few primes doesn't take up much room, nice and light too.
Kept a limited Fuji setup for low light stuff in particular plus the 10-24mm is great for landscapes and architecture.

My preference is for rangefinder style cameras although the little G80 looks interesting.
Might have to give it a try one day if an opportunity arises or maybe the even smaller Olympus EM10 ii

Saw the comment about Fuji feeling fiddly, all the dials seem to be quite popular with some people.
Hope you find what you are looking for, quite satisfying when you do
 
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#19
I used a D7000 for 4 or 5 years, and now use a D7200. For some reason I never particularly liked the files from the D7000 - nothing to do with MP, because I still love the files from my D80, which only had 10.2 of them. I definitely prefer the files from the D7200 over the D7000. I wish I could explain just why, but I'm afraid I can't.

Incidentally, I used the same lenses on both models, mostly a Nikon 17-55 f2.8 and a Sigma 50mm f1.4 DG, so both very good lenses. I also have an old nikon 18-70 kit lens. The feeling remains constant, no matter whether cheap or expensive glass.
How odd, I was always quite happy with the files from my D7000. They seemed sharp enough for me. Is tempting to find some files from a D7200 to see how they compare.

I have recently gone back to a crop sensor as well , luckily having used many different makes and models over the years I had a reference point and pulled up different combos from my Flickr stream . I decided that the nicest shots came from a Nikon D300S , so after a few weeks of looking at a lot of very overpriced bodies I eventually found a super one with a lot of extras for just over £200 my original intent was to use it with the couple of legacy Nikon m/f lenses I have , but a chance shopping trip saw me getting a bnib sigma 150-600 for around half price from a shop that’s closing down soon . Genuine sale confirmed by sigma with a 3 year warranty applied .. very pleased with the results to .
I have seen on Flickr you had gone to a D300s, great cameras I had a D300 which was great but found I got on better with a D7000.

I like m4/3 for travel photography, camera and few primes doesn't take up much room, nice and light too.
Kept a limited Fuji setup for low light stuff in particular plus the 10-24mm is great for landscapes and architecture.

My preference is for rangefinder style cameras although the little G80 looks interesting.
Might have to give it a try one day if an opportunity arises or maybe the even smaller Olympus EM10 ii

Saw the comment about Fuji feeling fiddly, all the dials seem to be quite popular with some people.
Hope you find what you are looking for, quite satisfying when you do
Hopefully I will find what I am looking for too. I get too easily swayed by naysayers online really need to ignore all others and decide on what's best for me. Weight wise I haven't found a massive difference between my current kit and going back to similar focal lengths in Nikon DX kit, of at most around half to a kilo of difference but that would be a body and four lenses which I wouldn't take out all the time. I normally plan ahead and take a body and one lens.
 
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#20
FWIW if trading in, I recently sent some lenses to Wex after they gave me a slightly better offer than MPB, possibly because I said I'd take account credit rather than cash as I have decided on a new lens to buy from them.
 
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#21
Funnily enough I have had d7000; and d7100’s before and a host of canon gear but I preferred the look of the files from a D300S ,so far it’s proving me right getting some nice stuff at the moment but really could do with some nice weather to push it properly . I have also been looking at the D7200 but need more funds so it’s on a back burner for now .
I still have the Panasonic g80 12-60 and Leica 100-400 to use as needed plus a couple of manual focus lenses a Nikkor 50mm f1.4 aids among them
 
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#22
I had a few Nikon cameras, the D80, D90, D200 and D800E - tbh, the Pany G80 stands up pretty well to any of them - bar the D800 in low light, DR and of course file size. But in general I find the files from the Pany even sharper than the older Nikon bodies - no doubt the D7*** range are better than the old bunch but even still, unless low light is your biggest issue you may end up disappointed if you're expecting a total improvement. I have often thought about a return to my old fauthful Nikon, and a D7200 is probably where I would start. But I'd miss so much about the G80 - the IBIS in particular, the touch screen, the evf, the video capabilities whenever I do bother to use it - just like having it there JIC, and how great the camera is for adapting old classic lenses, giving them a new lease of life with IBIS. If it was just simply about IQ end result I probably would have gone back to a D7200 by now, but I think photography is about so much more.
 
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#23
I had a few Nikon cameras, the D80, D90, D200 and D800E - tbh, the Pany G80 stands up pretty well to any of them - bar the D800 in low light, DR and of course file size. But in general I find the files from the Pany even sharper than the older Nikon bodies - no doubt the D7*** range are better than the old bunch but even still, unless low light is your biggest issue you may end up disappointed if you're expecting a total improvement. I have often thought about a return to my old fauthful Nikon, and a D7200 is probably where I would start. But I'd miss so much about the G80 - the IBIS in particular, the touch screen, the evf, the video capabilities whenever I do bother to use it - just like having it there JIC, and how great the camera is for adapting old classic lenses, giving them a new lease of life with IBIS. If it was just simply about IQ end result I probably would have gone back to a D7200 by now, but I think photography is about so much more.
Hence my change of mind about selling the g80 each has there own niche in the market. Luckily I’m in a position to be able to retain and use both . Time will tell but I’m enjoying myself at the moment
 
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#25
It's a great camera technology wise, I just don't seem to be able to gel with it.
Why not? Handling? Controls? Some image qualities?

The trouble with camera equipment as with images themselves is that it can get so easy to overthink it all - with gear, shopping choices can take precedence over what is actually produced. But I sense that you're on a certain drift, so keep with it ..

For what I do myself, my concerns with bodies (sensors +) are modest enough but relate to dr and what I can claw back from highlights and yes, shadows, with as little compromise as possible. And my guess (that's all it is) is that on average ff might be better, and more surely that newer is better than older.

But what the hell - we make images, don't we? And though there are baselines of visual & technical competence, the image is the message in the end, both in whether it satisfies ourselves and in whether it gets through to - well, the target audience, I suppose, whether commercial, cultural, or just some arbitrary peer group.

I normally plan ahead and take a body and one lens.
I like that!
 
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#26
Why not? Handling? Controls? Some image qualities?!
It's mostly how the camera feels in my hands and the control layout. I am very used to a Nikon layout having used them since I started about 8 years ago. I am still much an amateur user. I have taken quite a lot of photos with my G80 since getting it about 18 months ago but I still struggle when I go to use it to remember where all the controls are and find myself 'faffing' about a lot trying to figure something out which then frustrates me. I very often resort to checking the manual which I have downloaded to my phone.
Also size wise, I find it feels a bit fiddly in the hands, I by no means have massive hands but I feel it's a little undersized for me. I have thought about adding the grip but I have never been a big fan of them. Trouble is trying to find somewhere local that has one I can try before I buy. I don't want to end up spending more money on something I am not happy with.

If I pop to my local store which has a good range of cameras and try a few the D7200 size just feels right to hold and I find myself easily knowing where the controls are. I know size and layout wise it's almost identical to a D7000. Budget wise a D7000 seems better value with more left over for lenses.

As for image quality I have prints at 16*12 produced for my local camera club exhibition and looking at them some are D7000 and some are G80, if it was a blind test I couldn't say which was from what camera they both to me local identical. This is probably the largest image size I produce which seems 16mp is more than enough. Something like 24mp of the D7200 would give me more space for cropping but I tend to try to compose my image as I want it to be when finished without cropping if needed.
 
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#27
as a wildlife photographer , the two things I look for is frames per second and buffer and the old d300s beats the d7200 on both counts . a d500 would be better but a tad more expensive . I will possibly move up a touch sometime in the future but for now the combo of both cameras and main lenses will do for the time being . now where can I buy some sunny weather from
 
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#30
Honestly, get a D500 and you wont even look back, I did and I am now chomping at the bit to take it with me everywhere again, with the D810 then the D4 and back to another D810 I never wanted to do that, the D700 was totally different, I would have another in a heartbeat...… but D810 although its a fantastic camera, its just not for me, D500 all the way now or until it gets an upgrade to a newer model, 21mp is plenty enough.
 
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#31
How odd, I was always quite happy with the files from my D7000. They seemed sharp enough for me. Is tempting to find some files from a D7200 to see how they compare...
Nothing to do with sharpness, Ian, as I said, I actually prefer the files from my old D80 to those of the 7000. I wish I were able to explain what I mean, and anyway, these things are very subjective. I convert most of my serious work to B&W, and it is probably around what happens in that process. I like a very 'film-like' look, so it's something to do with texture and tonality, but not sharpness.
 
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#32
I totally agree with this , one of the reasons I went for the D300S there is something about the way the files are processed that’s different , the only drawback is having to ensure that you manage the iso levels properly .
 
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#33
I had a few Nikon cameras, the D80, D90, D200 and D800E - tbh, the Pany G80 stands up pretty well to any of them - bar the D800 in low light, DR and of course file size. But in general I find the files from the Pany even sharper than the older Nikon bodies - no doubt the D7*** range are better than the old bunch but even still, unless low light is your biggest issue you may end up disappointed if you're expecting a total improvement. I have often thought about a return to my old fauthful Nikon, and a D7200 is probably where I would start. But I'd miss so much about the G80 - the IBIS in particular, the touch screen, the evf, the video capabilities whenever I do bother to use it - just like having it there JIC, and how great the camera is for adapting old classic lenses, giving them a new lease of life with IBIS. If it was just simply about IQ end result I probably would have gone back to a D7200 by now, but I think photography is about so much more.
I've had a look at my printed images (16*12) and there is a very slight difference in sharpness. The G80 pictures do look slightly better, probably due to the lack of the AA filter. Therefore that means I would rule out the D7000.
I am going out this weekend coming with the camera. Will try to take note of how many times I use the features of the G80 that the D7xxx series doesn't feature like flip out screen etc. Stuff I probably use without realising which I probably will miss. I have found the extra features of the G80 have opened up the creative possibilities when taking photos giving me more options of angles etc and making it easier to compose.
 
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#34
D7500? They are a bit more expensive than a D7200 and the sensor isn't quite as good (looks like it has extra noise reduction after iso 400 but it doesn't help dynamic range). However has a fold out/flippy touch screen, better fps and is a bit more modern.
 
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#35
D7500? They are a bit more expensive than a D7200 and the sensor isn't quite as good (looks like it has extra noise reduction after iso 400 but it doesn't help dynamic range). However has a fold out/flippy touch screen, better fps and is a bit more modern.
True but more money also than a D7200. If I was to swap I don't want a massive outlay of extra cost. That money could be better spent on fuel in my car going places to visit. Hence why I was looking at the D7000. I have just worked out with a quote from Wex a cost of swapping like for like and with a D7100 body it'd be about £3-400 on top of a trade in.
 
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#36
The G80 images look better than the D7000 because the Nikon sensor is ancient and things have moved on a lot.

I had a D7000 but would never go back to one now.

FWIW I now use M4/3 and enjoy it.

I did the whole Full frame DSLR thing and had a good time with the kit too but a lighter camera bag nowadays is much more preferable to an aching back in the evenings.
 
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#37
and don't forget the D7500 makes do with only one card slot and no battery grip option (if that's important to you), where as the D7200 has twin slots and a dedicated battery grip. Also the D7200 has the AI index tab for older Nikkor lenses if you have any ?

It's swings and roundabouts, but my money would be on the cheaper D7200 (as I had one and it was great).
 
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#38
The G80 images look better than the D7000 because the Nikon sensor is ancient and things have moved on a lot.

I had a D7000 but would never go back to one now.

FWIW I now use M4/3 and enjoy it.

I did the whole Full frame DSLR thing and had a good time with the kit too but a lighter camera bag nowadays is much more preferable to an aching back in the evenings.
Might have to do a weight comparison but probably looking at over a kilo in kit between the two.

and don't forget the D7500 makes do with only one card slot and no battery grip option (if that's important to you), where as the D7200 has twin slots and a dedicated battery grip. Also the D7200 as the AI index tab for older Nikkor lenses if you have any ?
Not got any old legacy lenses or too fussed over dual card slots.
 
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#39
Last year I went from a Canon 5D to Fuji, it was 100% the right move for me, however I occasionaly look at some of the photos I took with the 5D and my best lenses and the quality is amazing. My Fuji is close, but the images from full frame are better.
 
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