Have you got a friend like this?

woody12

woody12

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Hi, got get this off my chest because it really annoys me. I am a self taught still learning photographer who takes photos for pleasure and a hobby to combact an illness by getting out. My friend thinks because he brought an expensive camera the worlds his oyster at expoliting people because photography is about making money and lots of it. Now this is a guy who has had the camera three months thinks that keeping in auto mode is best and the camera does all the work anyway and now has spent money on printed business cards informing people that he can do anything from proms to weddings and kids birthday parties - the list is staggering.
His words were i take good photos my family love them so joe public will pay me loads and its a camera how hard can it be. The thing is i've nothing against people making a living from photography good luck to them its a hard business but the people that have done so have worked at their craft, learnt and gained experience. The other day i said to him just take it easy after all you might find yourself out of your dheepth on say a wedding shoot due to lighting conditions he just laughed it off and said thats fine i'll just buy a more expensive camera with a bigger flash. I didn't know if to laugh or cry. Whats annoyed me more is other people keep saying you should follow your friends lead i say NO NO NO its not about the mon, its the love of just taking a photo good or bad and learning a skill and enjoying a hobby. Rant over, I use the term friend loosly here.
 
Best photographer in the world won't make a penny if he isn't a good business man and it doesn't sound like your friend is a good businessman.
 
Perhaps you should in general conversation remind him he will need various levels of insurance and to let the tax man know he is 'earning' from his photography. If he is as cavalier as you say he will likely brush such business needed stuff off!

It does sound like he is building for a fall!

FWIW this is not the first such story I have read/heard of over the decades (yes, even in film days the concept of better & more expensive camera was equated with must take better pictures...!) of the likes of your friend.
 
It would not surprise me if he did ok from finding unsuspecting victims.

Sometimes a ton of self confidence and blagging skill gets people a lot more work that they deserve to have.

Especially in a City or large town where people don't know them or their reputation.

Where I live wedding photographers would sink really fast because everyone knows everyone and their rep would be killed stone dead after one bad job.
 
MatBin said:
Best photographer in the world won't make a penny if he isn't a good business man and it doesn't sound like your friend is a good businessman.
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...or the best photographer in the world [emoji23]
 
Yes. My friends wife announced to me that she was going to setup s photography business. Thing is, she doesn’t even own a camera but has taken a few crap photos with her iPhone which she thinks are the bees knees.

I just laughed at her and told her good luck with that. Thank god, she seems to have taken the hint.
 
Let him do his thing - it doesn’t affect you and in reality is not really anything you should invest time worrying about. He’s not breaking any laws.

If it works great, if it doesn’t , he’ll find out soon enough. It’s probably heading for the latter, but perhaps he has spectacular vision and he’ll learn.

I long ago learnt not to get too bent out of shape because of what others do, as long as it’s legal.
 
It's the newly weds whose wedding shots that may or may not turn out as expected you have to feel sorry for.....you can't second shoot a wedding .
 
MatBin said:
Best photographer in the world won't make a penny if he isn't a good business man and it doesn't sound like your friend is a good businessman.
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That's far more important than the gear or photography skills. A friend of mine got enthused by my photographs and bought a DSLR with a general purpose wide range zoom, a 35mm f1.8 for low light, and a big flashgun. Within three months she was making a living out of taking baby photographs, pet photographs, weddings, family get togethers, etc.. She didn't understand the exposure triangle or any of the technology, and didn't want to. She phoned me at least once a week to ask how to do something. She did however have a natural eye for a good composition, was charming, and as her previous business ventures proved, was a good businesswoman. Her customers were very happy with her work and recommended her to their friends.

The only reason she gave up the photography was because she lost interest in it and started up another more profitable venture, buying underpriced poorly advertised houses and simply being better at selling them.

Whereas I, a much better photographer than her, with much better gear, have struggled to make even enough from my photography just to pay for my gear. Because I'm a poor businessman and bad at selling myself. My friend's success taught me that the only way I will ever make a living from my photography would be to employ a manager and agent.
 
<Yawn> There are loads of people like this out there. Fools with no idea of what they are doing.

The pattern is simple.

He actually won't get much work, because he isn't any good and there is simply so much choice of photographers out there. It doesn't matter how good you are at 'business' and how much you advertise and promote, at the end of the day its your quality of work. You can be at the top page of google but if people click on your link and you are displaying work that's poor, people will skip over you are go to the next link.

People like your friend will not understand this. He thinks its all about getting out there, no matter what the quality and skill of his photography is like.

But throw enough poop and it will stick as they say, and he will get a few jobs, probably low key, low paid.

And then he'll shoot the job, produce poor quality work, because he clearly has no idea what he is doing. *crash and burn*

He'll get a bad reputation, fail and cease. But he'll never blame his lack of photography skills as to the reason for the failure.
 
riddell said:
He'll get a bad reputation, fail and cease. But he'll never blame his lack of photography skills as to the reason for the failure.
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Will he though? I see plenty of photographers who are absolutely terrible, but because they have no qualms about blagging they can take a lot of people in who then recommend them to their acquaintances. There's a massive disconnect between what the public think is a great photo and what a photographer believes. An untrained eye often doesn't notice blurry photos, under or overexposure etc. It's frustrating but there we go
 
GTG said:
It would not surprise me if he did ok from finding unsuspecting victims.

Sometimes a ton of self confidence and blagging skill gets people a lot more work that they deserve to have.

Especially in a City or large town where people don't know them or their reputation.

Where I live wedding photographers would sink really fast because everyone knows everyone and their rep would be killed stone dead after one bad job.
Click to expand...


Just wondering if you were around when my namesake tried to set himself up as a photogarpher in your/our neck of the woods. His first wedding was so bad that the b&g took it to ITV Wales and they featured him on their consumer programme....of course it reflected badly on me beacuse it's such a small world in west Wales and there surely can't be two photographers called Jeremy Moore, can there?
 
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World is full of nobs. Don’t let this one get to you . They’ll be another along in a mo
 
jerry12953 said:
Just wondering if you were around when my namesake tried to set himself up as a photogarpher in your/our neck of the woods. His first wedding was so bad that the b&g took it to ITV Wales and they featured him on their consumer programme....of course it reflected badly on me beacuse it's such a small world in west Wales and there surely can't be two photographers called Jeremy Moore, can there?
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That is seriously bad luck, its all rep where I am. Everyone goes to Louise Noakes studio in Boncath for most stuff and nobody else gets much of a look in. Her husband is a Dr and bought her all the gear and studio no doubt
 
GTG said:
That is seriously bad luck, its all rep where I am. Everyone goes to Louise Noakes studio in Boncath for most stuff and nobody else gets much of a look in. Her husband is a Dr and bought her all the gear and studio no doubt
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Hmm. Of course, your assumption that she would have been capable of starting a business sounds a tad sexist and somewhat sour....

:eek:
 
Chipper said:
Hmm. Of course, your assumption that she would have been capable of starting a business sounds a tad sexist and somewhat sour....

:eek:
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Hmm, Of course, bit of a coincidence the rich girl has the studio and £30K worth of gear
 
There a frightening number of people who set themselves up as "pros" especially on Facebook groups? Wedding photographers seems to be a niche that a lot must think is easy money, I have seen some of the most awful results in there so called portfolios.

They seem to spend more time designing or having a design made on the watermark and therefore once it says ******* Photography on there images and usually the size of half the screen then they good to go haha!

I just feel sorry for the people who pay good money and end up being taken in by these people while the decent wedding photographers must be pulling there hair out seeing the results !
 
No I am not; your original post made assumptions about the woman concerned and then the next put her down with your description of “Rich girl” but bye anyway.
 
Scirocco_09 said:
Will he though? I see plenty of photographers who are absolutely terrible, but because they have no qualms about blagging they can take a lot of people in who then recommend them to their acquaintances. There's a massive disconnect between what the public think is a great photo and what a photographer believes. An untrained eye often doesn't notice blurry photos, under or overexposure etc. It's frustrating but there we go
Click to expand...

Whilst your premise rings true on one level, overall it is doesn't and its an oft repeated statement that wannabes are desperate to believe is true.

The ratio of poor photos that an average person will accept if shooting images themselves with they phone or whatever rapidly diminishes when they are paying for something.
You don't need a trained eye to notice a blurry photo or overexposure. You might not even now what over exposure is. You'll just see it as crap.
 
woody12 said:
Hi, got get this off my chest because it really annoys me. I am a self taught still learning photographer who takes photos for pleasure and a hobby to combact an illness by getting out. My friend thinks because he brought an expensive camera the worlds his oyster at expoliting people because photography is about making money and lots of it. Now this is a guy who has had the camera three months thinks that keeping in auto mode is best and the camera does all the work anyway and now has spent money on printed business cards informing people that he can do anything from proms to weddings and kids birthday parties - the list is staggering.
His words were i take good photos my family love them so joe public will pay me loads and its a camera how hard can it be. The thing is i've nothing against people making a living from photography good luck to them its a hard business but the people that have done so have worked at their craft, learnt and gained experience. The other day i said to him just take it easy after all you might find yourself out of your dheepth on say a wedding shoot due to lighting conditions he just laughed it off and said thats fine i'll just buy a more expensive camera with a bigger flash. I didn't know if to laugh or cry. Whats annoyed me more is other people keep saying you should follow your friends lead i say NO NO NO its not about the mon, its the love of just taking a photo good or bad and learning a skill and enjoying a hobby. Rant over, I use the term friend loosly here.
Click to expand...

You will always get the type who Dream and think they are gods gift, have met them all, and what I say to say is. Let him fall and make a fool of himself, and he will, while you get on with your photography :)
 
riddell said:
Whilst your premise rings true on one level, overall it is doesn't and its an oft repeated statement that wannabes are desperate to believe is true.

The ratio of poor photos that an average person will accept if shooting images themselves with they phone or whatever rapidly diminishes when they are paying for something.
You don't need a trained eye to notice a blurry photo or overexposure. You might not even now what over exposure is. You'll just see it as crap.
Click to expand...

I disagree Paul - every day you see terrible photos get hundreds of 'likes' on social media, sometimes purely because it's a sunset and people like oversaturated colours or HDR effects etc. Over the years I've seen countless business recommendations of 'awesome' photographers on social media who could be utter garbage. One of my best friends used one such photographer for his wedding day and can't tell that his pictures are blurry and poorly composed. I wish people could tell the difference but most can't
 
Scirocco_09 said:
I disagree Paul - every day you see terrible photos get hundreds of 'likes' on social media, sometimes purely because it's a sunset and people like oversaturated colours or HDR effects etc. Over the years I've seen countless business recommendations of 'awesome' photographers on social media who could be utter garbage. One of my best friends used one such photographer for his wedding day and can't tell that his pictures are blurry and poorly composed. I wish people could tell the difference but most can't
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Yes of course. I see this too, and as I said in my initial post people like this will always pick up likes an will get some work.
The reality is however that they get very little work, and usually when the do its low paid and then after a short while they crash and burn because they can't deliver.
Overall I'm sure your friend is not happy with his blurry photos and would never recommend that photographer and probably regrets using him.
 
Bald
Box Brownie said:
Perhaps you should in general conversation remind him he will need various levels of insurance and to let the tax man know he is 'earning' from his photography. If he is as cavalier as you say he will likely brush such business needed stuff off!

It does sound like he is building for a fall!

FWIW this is not the first such story I have read/heard of over the decades (yes, even in film days the concept of better & more expensive camera was equated with must take better pictures...!) of the likes of your friend.
Click to expand...

Years ago I had a lorry driver come in the Pro wholesaler I worked in to buy a ‘‘Hasselbald’ “cos they tell me they’re pretty good and it’s my daughters wedding soon” he walked out with a 2000FC and a Gossen Profisix lightmeter despite my best efforts to persuade him to buy something simpler (yes I really did try not to sell him it!)
 
Wait until a client show you on the day of her wedding an image from Instagram or Pinterest and said "can you do something like this?".

In it you need to know from a mere look

Focal Length
Lighting - Are there any off camera lights, if so, from where and how many
Was there gels used?
Rough Shutter speed and Aperture

What are you going to do? say no to a bride on her wedding day? You are meant to be the professional and you better be able to just do it within 3 shots and then see it on the back of the screen!
 
Raymond Lin said:
Wait until a client show you on the day of her wedding an image from Instagram or Pinterest and said "can you do something like this?".

In it you need to know from a mere look

Focal Length
Lighting - Are there any off camera lights, if so, from where and how many
Was there gels used?
Rough Shutter speed and Aperture
Click to expand...
I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, not from a business perspective, but from a FB group where OTT processing is the hot topic, and I’ve noticed a lack of understanding of ‘photography’.
A new thread to follow.
 
Phil V said:
I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, not from a business perspective, but from a FB group where OTT processing is the hot topic, and I’ve noticed a lack of understanding of ‘photography’.
A new thread to follow.
Click to expand...

Your last sentence puts me in mind of the advert showing a youngster/teenager using a tablet, an adult voice says "I see you're using your computer......" The child replies "what's a computer..."

Brave new world???
 
Raymond Lin said:
Wait until a client show you on the day of her wedding an image from Instagram or Pinterest and said "can you do something like this?".

In it you need to know from a mere look

Focal Length
Lighting - Are there any off camera lights, if so, from where and how many
Was there gels used?
Rough Shutter speed and Aperture

What are you going to do? say no to a bride on her wedding day? You are meant to be the professional and you better be able to just do it within 3 shots and then see it on the back of the screen!
Click to expand...
Or comes and ask's to see his wedding portfolio.
 
riddell said:
Overall I'm sure your friend is not happy with his blurry photos and would never recommend that photographer and probably regrets using him.
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They're delighted with their photos, they have several prints on their walls and when I saw them at Christmas, were saying what a great photographer he was and that they've recommended him to family and friends...
 
Bazza155 said:
It's the newly weds whose wedding shots that may or may not turn out as expected you have to feel sorry for.....you can't second shoot a wedding .
Click to expand...
Anyone booking a photographer without checking that the portfolio and price match expectations have to accept some of the blame themselves.

It’s a lot of money to spend with no due diligence.

I only have sympathy for any complaint that includes the phrase ‘and was nothing like their portfolio’ ;)
 
If he has money to burn tell him he can take my photo... if he gives me 5 grand ;)
 
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