Beginner Help : 35mm Home developing

Shaun Palmer

Shaun Palmer

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Shaun
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Hello everyone

So I’m eagerly awaiting my first film SLR to get into film photography. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on here, other sites online and watching videos on YouTube, and I’ve decided I want to take it a step further and develop my own negatives at home.

I’ve just got a few questions and there’s no better place to ask than TP!

First question is, is it as easy and straight forward as it looks? I’m guessing it’s like anything, if you practice enough you’ll become competent in it.

Secondly, what brand of chemicals would you recommend for someone just starting, I think I’d prefer making up the chemicals myself rather than buying the pre mixed liquid types.

Is there much more equipment you would need or recommend to have than here https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/201509761693

And lastly, I was thinking of getting an older second hand OpticFilm 7600i rather than a new 8100, I can’t see the point paying so much more for what I’ll be doing with the photos.

The shots I take will mainly be used on Facebook/Instagram, nothing professional or huge prints etc.

Thanks

Shaun
 
Hi Shaun, there's only really two difficult things about home developing, getting the temperature to the right place and keeping it there and stopping the negs getting dusty, the rest is just following a recipe really.
Colour is more temperature dependent than black and white but you do need to have the correct times for each type of black and white film whereas colour is always the same.
I used tetanal for my colour and it is very straightforward.
Give it a go, youll enjoy it. :D
 
For black and white, temperature is not critical - you adjust time to compensate for changes in temperature and if temp varies by a degree while developing it does not matter. Agitation is a more important variable.
 
Yes, I seem to recall getting more and more agitated when trying to load film onto the developing tank spiral in total darkness; and when, despite me following the instructions, I was left on one occasion with blue steaks encroaching from the film edges onto my E6 transparencies! Thinking back, your quite right, John, my agitation did tend to be the most important variable! ;)

Joking aside, I found B&W wasn't too difficult back in the days when I used to develop my own film, but that was so long ago that things have probably changed significantly since then.
 
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Shaun Palmer said:
Hello everyone

So I’m eagerly awaiting my first film SLR to get into film photography. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on here, other sites online and watching videos on YouTube, and I’ve decided I want to take it a step further and develop my own negatives at home.

I’ve just got a few questions and there’s no better place to ask than TP!

First question is, is it as easy and straight forward as it looks? I’m guessing it’s like anything, if you practice enough you’ll become competent in it.
Click to expand...

Not very hard for black and white (Andy and I can do it!). If you have a normal tank you'll have to get the film onto the reels in a dark bag or dark tent... folk say this can sometimes be a nightmare. I avoid this by using a Rondinax daylight tank. Pros include half the chems, cons include one film at a time, 35mm only for my tank. Follow the recipe... but the real issues as folk have said include dust and water marks at the drying stages.

Secondly, what brand of chemicals would you recommend for someone just starting, I think I’d prefer making up the chemicals myself rather than buying the pre mixed liquid types.
Click to expand...

Not quite sure why you'd necessarily want to buy a powder and mix it up for stock rather than buy a liquid; in both cases you're likely to then dilute. I use Ilfosol 3, but I'd probably try HC110 which apparently lasts "forever". There are plenty of posts about the pros and cons of various developers. Stand development in Rodinal (or more likely a modern variant) seems to be goto for problem films, specially if you don't mind the grain.

Is there much more equipment you would need or recommend to have than here https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/201509761693
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You might need a couple of smaller measuring cylinders, one up to say 500 ml the other up to say 10 ml (or maybe a syringe for the latter). And I use clip-top pots for mixed up reusable chems like stop and fix. Oh, and more water jugs as you'll want to get several washes worth up (or down) to a similar temperature. (That's assuming you're not washing in running water which is probably a daft assumption.)

And lastly, I was thinking of getting an older second hand OpticFilm 7600i rather than a new 8100, I can’t see the point paying so much more for what I’ll be doing with the photos.

The shots I take will mainly be used on Facebook/Instagram, nothing professional or huge prints etc.

Thanks

Shaun
Click to expand...

I use a 7500i and it's fine. Of course there's a risk with older gear, but I think optically and mechanically the older and newer ones are much the same; the difference is the bundled software. But that's Silverfast which is powerful but horrible; most folk (me included) pay much less for Vuescan Pro and get lifetime updates and the ability to use it on any and all your scanners. The i stands for infrared, which is useful for auto dust removal, though not for proper black and white negatives (or Kodachromes, if you have any in your attic). Works a treat scanning E6 though (and C41 though I usually get mine lab-scanned, except for XP2).
 
Shaun Palmer said:
First question is, is it as easy and straight forward as it looks? I’m guessing it’s like anything, if you practice enough you’ll become competent in it.
Click to expand...

Let's put it this way. I was about ten years old when I developed my first film, and it failed horribly because I was too impatient to read the instructions and didn't load it onto to spiral - I actually wrapped it round it. The next film - only a short time later - was fine. And the only other failure I've had was one ruined through reticulation (a crazy paving effect caused by a sudden change in processing temperture).

To put the failures into a timescale - the first was in 1958/9 and the second in 1966.

It's more difficult to bake a sponge cake than develop a film (I've done lots of both, although I have to admit I don't recall a failed cake...).
 
Thanks for the informative reply’s everyone.

I’ve ordered pretty much everything I need now, I went with the tetenal developing Chems, seems easy enough to use with good results. I’m so excited to get started.

I’ve orders some wetting agent as well to use with the final rinse. It seems there’s quite a debate to wether using a squeegee/fingers is good or bad, and a lot of reading pointed to using a wetting agent and let it drip dry. Anyone got any tips for the drying process?
 
Make sure it's hung up in as dust free an environment as you can. The bathroom is usually a good choice; and running a bath beforehand to create steam to take the dust out of the atmosphere may help. Weight the film down to keep it straight, and cut it and put it into the negative sleeves as soon as it's completely dry. Avoid movement in the drying room if possible.

On the squeegee/fingers - I don't use either.

One final tip - tap water will contain residues which can settle out on the film, so using "distilled" water for the final rinse is a good idea. The italics are to indicate I'm using a generic term, as most purified water won't be distilled. I find the local chemist can supply in 5 litre containers, and the local car spares place the same but much cheaper.
 
Yes, I use de-ionised water from the local car shop in the final rinse, plus a drop of Kodak Photo Flo. That's 2 ml per 500 ml of wash, one of the reasons for the small measuring device. Ilfotol is an Ilford alternative.

Everything goes in a square crate that lives under the stairs. A problem I have is that it's usually a bit below "room temperature" but provided I get the water up to 20C it seems to work out OK. There are charts for adjusting dev times for different temperatures.

For me, it works by making it a bit of a ritual, everything gets unpacked into the same locations so I don't get muddled up.
 
I've never used anything when doing a final wash but I'm beginning to think its probably a good idea.
My final wash is just running the tap into the developing tank would this mean that the photo flo will be ineffective? How do others do their final wash?
 
Andysnap said:
I've never used anything when doing a final wash but I'm beginning to think its probably a good idea.
My final wash is just running the tap into the developing tank would this mean that the photo flo will be ineffective? How do others do their final wash?
Click to expand...

After I've finished washing the fixer out using the "illford" method. I fill a large measuring jug with warm water at a few ml of rinse aid, take the spiral out of the tank and put it in the jug. I agitate it a bit then take the spiral out and hang the film. This has the advantage of not getting flo in my tank and taking ages to stop is soaping up.
 
steveo_mcg said:
After I've finished washing the fixer out using the "illford" method. I fill a large measuring jug with warm water at a few ml of rinse aid, take the spiral out of the tank and put it in the jug. I agitate it a bit then take the spiral out and hang the film. This has the advantage of not getting flo in my tank and taking ages to stop is soaping up.
Click to expand...

Like it, I shall give that a go next time. Thanks Steve.

Andy
 
Andysnap said:
I've never used anything when doing a final wash but I'm beginning to think its probably a good idea.
My final wash is just running the tap into the developing tank would this mean that the photo flo will be ineffective? How do others do their final wash?
Click to expand...

I use the Ilford method for washing which is basically just a few changes of water with an increased number of inversions with each 10/20/30 in each. This should reduce the amount of fixer dramatically, since after the first rinse it's only got to remmove whatever is held in the emulsion. I can't recall whether it's paper or film (or both) but paradoxically it's more archival to have a small amount of fixer left than to competely remove it. If anyone's curious, I can try to locate the source of this info.

The PhotoFlo etc. just reduces the surface tension of water, reducing its ability to form droplets and hence drain completely from the film. Provided it's in the final rinse water, it should work.

I've avoided using water straight from the tap since my reticulation incident. Before switching to the Ilford method, I used successive changes of water to bring the temperature down to tap temperature before plugging in the hose. I used to wash for half an hour; the Ilford method saves both time and water.
 
I'm watching this with interest as I've got all I need for B&W except the developer and fixer (I never used to use a stop bath, just used a few changes of tap water to get rid of the developer), I can convert the downstairs cloakroom into a dark room if I can stop the light from around the door as there's no window in there, and as long as I don't take too long loading the film into the tank I shouldn't suffocate! On the other hand, it might just be safer to buy a film changing bag! :whistle:

On another 'developing on the cheap' note, I got a set of three different sized measuring jugs from Aldi last year for about £3 when they had one of their specials. I'd already got one of those tall Paterson graduated jugs for accurate measuring so I can just use the Aldi ones as receptacles for the chemicals measured out with the Paterson jug. All I need now is the motivation to have a go.
 
Unless things have changed since I used to home develop film, the wetting agent is only used to encourage the water to flow off the film when you hang it up to dry, rather than it forming droplets that stay put and dry in situ leaving water marks on the negs, not to wash/clean any chemicals off the film, so adding it to the last bath/rinse only should be fine. If this is wrong I'm sure someone will soon let us know. (y)
 
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When agitating I favoured the inversion method rather than spinning the spool with the handle.

And don't forget to tap the tank on the worktop after agitation to remove air bubbles from the film whilst its developing.

Good memories coming back here.

You'll really enjoy it Shaun.
 
Shaun Palmer said:
I’ve seen a couple of videos where people just blast the tap into the box for a few minutes, seems to not do any damage but think I’m still going to rinse using a few jugs with the agent in.
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Wetting agent is only needed in the final rinse - it's purpose is to promote even drying. If you put too much in, it will make the spiral harder to clean (apparently - never been there), so use sparingly. I go with two drops into a litre of rinse water.

Reticulation produces a crazy paving effect when it's really obvious, but in smaller amounts it can simply resemble grain, meaning you'll simply think that the film is grainy rather than that something went wrong with the temperatures.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
When agitating I favoured the inversion method rather than spinning the spool with the handle.

And don't forget to tap the tank on the worktop after agitation to remove air bubbles from the film whilst its developing.

Good memories coming back here.

You'll really enjoy it Shaun.
Click to expand...
This is the best way. And it is important not to over-fill the tank with developer as the air above the developer is important when you invert the tank as it causes turbulence in the developer which is what you are after.

If you do use the spinning with the stick method, it is important to spin in both directions or the developer in contact with the film will just rotate with the film and you will get little fresh developer in contact with the film.
 
StephenM said:
Reticulation produces a crazy paving effect when it's really obvious, but in smaller amounts it can simply resemble grain, meaning you'll simply think that the film is grainy rather than that something went wrong with the temperatures.
Click to expand...
Reticulation can be quite attractive but it very hard to produce. Modern films are resistant to it and I have never accidentally produced it even with my cavalier method of developing at 20° or higher and then washing in running tap water at 5° or lower.
 
On the other hand, "modern" doesn't mean quite the same thing as "currently made"; I have heard (and this is hearsay as I don't venture beyond PanF and FP4) that some of the older formulation films can be less resilient. I'm mildly interested in the "reticulation can masquerade as grain" level, where full blown crazy paving doesn't appear; but lacking a microscope and the need to investigate I'll leave it as a reason in the back of my mind to be carfeful.

The only reticulated film I ever knowingly produced also happened to be an important one (to me, anyway).
 
Thanks David, I may well take you up on that offer; I was OK when you first offered as it was just a case of checking whether or not I'd loaded the film in my camera properly (sadly not!), and I was thinking in the long term about light-proofing the cloakroom to turn it into a darkroom if I decided to do home developing again. After thinking about it a changing bag would probably be an easier option though.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll have some sort of photography related item I could swap for one of your changing bags, even if it's just some beer tokens! I'll send you a PM after the weekend when I know what spare time I'll have next week, and perhaps we can meet up in due course for a pint and a kit swap? (y)
 
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StephenM said:
The only reticulated film I ever knowingly produced also happened to be an important one (to me, anyway).
Click to expand...

I have one reticulated negative that I'm aware of, an otherwise lovely shot of my OH before we were married, but it was lab developed (in Australia, over 40 years ago). It does annoy me!
 
I use a Paterson System 4 tank. All chemicals are mixed from concentrate and used one-shot. Dev is HC-110 measured out with a syringe from a small bottle that I regularly decant into. I use the fixer (Hypam) at 1+9 (print strength rather than film strength) for 6 minutes, and it seems to work fine. I should probably use the stop bath more dilute as well. Wetting agent is usually half a capful or something, depending on quantity of fluid needed (300 to 1000ml).

For the water, I use the mixer tap at the kitchen sink. I run hot water only for a minute to get that flowing, then back it off to a trickle before dialling in the cold. I know roughly what flow rates are needed for each to get a decent flow at 20° (ie, enough to fill containers at a reasonable rate, and enough to get a good through-flow when washing). I then check the temperature roughly with a thermometer under the tap to get it close before running it into a jug and measuring that. If it's wrong, I adjust, empty the jug and repeat until it's right.

When it's stable at 20°, I fill a 2L jug and leave it in the corner of the sink, and then make up all of the chemicals in separate containers. The chems are always laid out the same way on the draining board (in a row, left to right, dev, stop, fix, wet).

I then process the film. Every time I pour a chem into the tank, I immediately put the jug/beaker under the tap and leave it to rinse while do the agitation cycles and keep an eye on the timer. After a couple of minutes, I shake the water off the empty container and put it in the cupboard - stuff gradually disappears as things proceed. At the end of the fix phase, I don't empty the tank, but take the lid off and pull the reel out to have a look to make sure the film has cleared. This gives me the option to put it back in for longer without having to make up more fixer. If it's cleared okay, then I empty the tank, put the reel back in and the lid on (without the cap), and leave it directly under the tap to wash for 10 minutes. The flow from the tap is directed right into the middle of the funnel shape in the lid - constant flow, down the middle, round the bottom, up through the reel and out the top. When that's done, the tank is emptied, lid off, and in goes the wetting agent for 30 secs. It's then taken straight out, given a shake, a clip goes on one end, it's uncoiled, a clip goes on the other, and it's hung up to dry. I never use fingers or a squeegee to get excess moisture off. Drying is done in the bathroom - no special preparation other than to make sure the doors are open and the light is on (done while the film is washing) so that I don't have to deal with that while carrying wet film.

So far as I can see, I never get drying marks or the like. The 2L jug is a backup in case the household water supply throws a wobbly and goes away from the required temperature, or if I do something silly like adjust a tap without thinking. If that happens, my chems are already all made up and I have 2L of water available for washing using the Ilford method. During the process, I regularly rinse my hands under the tap as a matter of course, which also gives me a chance to monitor the temperature of the water. The chances of the mixed chemicals changing temperature are minimal at worst - 20° is near enough ambient. I use the jug of water to sluice down the draining board afterwards as the initial part of cleanup. The hot water really is at a trickle - I checked once, and I reckon I use about 2L of it over the course of half an hour. Once the film has been hung up, I separate all of the tank parts and give them a good rinse under stronger-flowing cold water. Shake off the excess and stack the bits on the draining board to air dry. No scrubbing or special washing, and I don't have any trouble getting the film onto the reel.

Consistency is everything - find a method that works and stick to it. If you're inconsistent with your process, your results will vary. If you add a small mistake to the process, they'll vary more. If you're consistent and add a small mistake, they won't vary as much as they would if you're inconsistent to start with. Consistency also comes from approach. It's the very reason I use the chemicals one-shot - there is no management of semi-expired chemicals to deal with (and hopefully not get wrong). It's also why have the 2L jug full of 20° water, and why I check the film before pouring away the fixer. I agree with having everything laid out in the same way every time,
 
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