Help with over exposure and lighting

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Hi all

I need a bit of help please... I have lighting equipement i'm playing around with and i'm just not getting it right...

I have a canon 60D and have set up lights as follows - main light infront and to the side of my subject and one behind my subject to make the white background really white.

My main light (Elinchrom D-lite) , in front, i have possitioned facing down onto the subject and the back light i've possitioned as low as possible. I'm using a canon 60d with a 24 - 105mm lens. I have set my both my lights to half flash to try minimize the exposure but that hasn't help me much. I'm trying to photograph some kids and they dont really sit still so i'm trying to bring my f stops as low as possible to "freeze" the moment so to say but as a result i'm getting over exposer even if i set the camera to Auto I get over exposure . If i increase the amount of time the shutter is open i stand a greater chance of the child moving - what do I need to do ? What should my settings be or are my light set up wrong for this type of work ? My main objective is to have a crisp clean white back ground and a nice kids portrait .

I have another silly question - with my 2 lights set up do i have to use them as flashes or can i just use them as plain lighting - hence not make them flash ? I'm a bit confused I know - I'm new at this lighting business hence i'm looking for some advice and I always get brilliant direction here... :)

Thank you
 
Hi all

I need a bit of help please... I have lighting equipement i'm playing around with and i'm just not getting it right...

I have a canon 60D and have set up lights as follows - main light infront and to the side of my subject and one behind my subject to make the white background really white.

My main light (Elinchrom D-lite) , in front, i have possitioned facing down onto the subject and the back light i've possitioned as low as possible. I'm using a canon 60d with a 24 - 105mm lens. I have set my both my lights to half flash to try minimize the exposure but that hasn't help me much. I'm trying to photograph some kids and they dont really sit still so i'm trying to bring my f stops as low as possible to "freeze" the moment so to say but as a result i'm getting over exposer even if i set the camera to Auto I get over exposure . If i increase the amount of time the shutter is open i stand a greater chance of the child moving - what do I need to do ? What should my settings be or are my light set up wrong for this type of work ? My main objective is to have a crisp clean white back ground and a nice kids portrait .

I have another silly question - with my 2 lights set up do i have to use them as flashes or can i just use them as plain lighting - hence not make them flash ? I'm a bit confused I know - I'm new at this lighting business hence i'm looking for some advice and I always get brilliant direction here... :)

Thank you
Forget your camera metering, it won't meter your elinchrom flash. Select a low ISO and a shutter speed suitable for flash 1/200.

The exposure is adjusted with aperture and flash power and flash to subject distance, ISO can be altered if necessary but 100 should be fine for this. after you've tested your setup, read the histogram to tweak exposure, or buy a flash meter.
 
Hi all

I need a bit of help please... I have lighting equipement i'm playing around with and i'm just not getting it right...

I have a canon 60D and have set up lights as follows - main light infront and to the side of my subject and one behind my subject to make the white background really white.

My main light (Elinchrom D-lite) , in front, i have possitioned facing down onto the subject and the back light i've possitioned as low as possible. I'm using a canon 60d with a 24 - 105mm lens. I have set my both my lights to half flash to try minimize the exposure but that hasn't help me much.
So far, things sound OK to me.. I prefer to put the main/key light almost directly in front of the subject, just slightly to one side, and the centre of it just slightly above the eyeline, but that's just what I found out from my first foray into this last weekend..

I'm trying to photograph some kids and they dont really sit still so i'm trying to bring my f stops as low as possible to "freeze" the moment so to say
You might have mistyped, but f stop (aperture) won't freeze the action, that's all about shutter speed. With flashes, you can safely go to around 1/200th - 1/250th without too much problems with flash sync, you can go higher but it can get tricky, I'd start at 1/200th, that works OK for me.

but as a result i'm getting over exposer even if i set the camera to Auto I get over exposure
You can't use Auto anything really, the camera in auto knows nothing of the studio flashes and will meter assuming either basic on-board flash, or no-flash, the studio lights add in a lot of 'unknown to the camera' extra light, and that is why you are seeing overexposure

If i increase the amount of time the shutter is open i stand a greater chance of the child moving - what do I need to do ? What should my settings be or are my light set up wrong for this type of work ? My main objective is to have a crisp clean white back ground and a nice kids portrait .

I may well be corrected heavily on this, but I set up a 2 light setup on the weekend, using a projector screen as the background, and 2 Dlite4s..
The background light was behind the subject, lowish, no reflector, pointing at the middle of the screen, the main key light used a softbox, and was almost directly infront of the subject, 2 feet away, and the centre only slightly above their eyeline, slightly angled down, leaving just enough room for my camera/lens to be close to the left of the softbox..

Now, here is how I metered everything.
1. Set the camera to Manual 'M' mode.. I used 1/100th and f/11 to start with, you could start with 1/200th and f/11. this gives suitable shutter speed to freeze the subject, and f/11 is enough DOF to ensure the head should be well focussed in it's entirety..

2. Assuming you are triggering using onboard flash, either turn this right down (if your camera allows it), or as I did later on, just put your hand in front of the flash (but not touching it) just to block the direct light to the subject, but it still triggered the flashes..

3. Start with only the main light switched on, and with some test subject where you want them, take a series of shots, turning the DLite up/down until the subject itself is nicely exposed.. that's the keylight sorted..

4. Now switch on the backlight as well, and again, take a series of shots, adjusting the backlight level until the background looks all nicely blown out.. Be careful to not go too far if you notice it's bouncing back and causing the edges of peoples hair to blanche out to white..

5. That's it.. keep an eye on the subject's face metering, if you see highlights on the cheeks/forehead, then turn the key light down .1 or .2, or if they look underexposed, turn it up a fraction..

Since you have the camera in M, and those settings are fixed, the backlight will never need adjusting, all you have to worry about is the keylight..


I have another silly question - with my 2 lights set up do i have to use them as flashes or can i just use them as plain lighting - hence not make them flash ? I'm a bit confused I know - I'm new at this lighting business hence i'm looking for some advice and I always get brilliant direction here... :)
Err.. they'd be just bedside lamps if they didn't flash, and the effect wouldn't be anything like the same.. to use the modelling bulb to try to blow out a white backdrop would take incredibly long shutter times and high ISOs /low f stops, and that wouldn't allow you to photograph moving items..

[edit] removed pics to not detract from OPs journey..
 
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Thank you

Ok I got my light meter out. I'm not so good with this either so still learning I'm terribly sorry for all the silly questions. I have a sekonic L 308 light meter... I want to make sure I have all the right settings. I've set my light meter to to full increment reading as aposed to 1/2 or 1/3 - with cordless flash reading with the Lumisphere closed and pointing towards the flashes - is this correct ? With these setting my meter reads ISO 400 f 16 .
 
Thank you

Ok I got my light meter out. I'm not so good with this either so still learning I'm terribly sorry for all the silly questions. I have a sekonic L 308 light meter... I want to make sure I have all the right settings. I've set my light meter to to full increment reading as aposed to 1/2 or 1/3 - with cordless flash reading with the Lumisphere closed and pointing towards the flashes - is this correct ? With these setting my meter reads ISO 400 f 16 .

A light meter is next on my list.. however I've seen a few youtube videos showing it being used.

1. You want to set the ISO to 100.. for best detail
2. I'd stick to 1/3 f/stop setting, I think all DSLRs have 1/3 f/stop aperture setting abilities?
3. Only meter 1 lamp at a time, as I said, I think you need to aim for an approx shutter/aperture start point, 1/200th and f/11 as an educated guess, so this is what you need to set the keylight to achieve
4. To meter the key/main light, place the meter where the subjects head will be, and aim the lumishpere straight at the keylight, do a test fire, and adjust that light until you get around your desired f stop (e.g. f/11)..
5. Then switch the keylight off, and switch the background light on, I'd place the meter roughly where the subject will be, and this time face it at the backdrop, and do a test fire, adjust this until it reads at least 1-2 stops more then the key light for that really blown out effect.. (f/16 to f/22 if the key light is f/11)

I'm very much starting out too, so I'm happy to be corrected!
 
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So far, things sound OK to me.. I prefer to put the main/key light almost directly in front of the subject, just slightly to one side, and the centre of it just slightly above the eyeline, but that's just what I found out from my first foray into this last weekend..

Thank you so much for that awesome advice - this is exactly what i was trying to achieve - I see what you mean by them being a bit washed out - what would you recommend to make them less washed out ?

Also with the main light just wanted to check the positioning of your camera was it directly next to the light or just behind it ? Thanks for the brilliant advice !!! Much appreciated !:)
 
Thank you so much for that awesome advice - this is exactly what i was trying to achieve - I see what you mean by them being a bit washed out - what would you recommend to make them less washed out ?
Just dial down the key light to suit your taste!! And of course, move the keylight further to one side and point it in if you want some shadowing accross the face.. I messed around just moving the keylight and re-metering to get what I was after.. We had some bad school photo's this year, so I did some basic 3/4 and head shots on the weekend as my first studio lighting experiment, they tend to be all about super-even lighting..


Also with the main light just wanted to check the positioning of your camera was it directly next to the light or just behind it ? Thanks for the brilliant advice !!! Much appreciated !:)

I used the 16-50 lens at full zoom (50mm) and that ended up being around where the softbox was, depending on framing I was just behind the box most of the time, but thought if I ventured in front it'd reflect in the lens and cause lens flare, but it was fine!

Let us know how you get on!
 
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A light meter is next on my list.. however I've seen a few youtube videos showing it being used.

1. You want to set the ISO to 100.. for best detail
2. I'd stick to 1/3 f/stop setting, I think all DSLRs have 1/3 f/stop aperture setting abilities?
3. Only meter 1 lamp at a time, as I said, I think you need to aim for an approx shutter/aperture start point, 1/200th and f/11 as an educated guess, so this is what you need to set the keylight to achieve
4. To meter the key/main light, place the meter where the subjects head will be, and aim the lumishpere straight at the keylight, do a test fire, and adjust that light until you get around your desired f stop (e.g. f/11)..
5. Then switch the keylight off, and switch the background light on, I'd place the meter roughly where the subject will be, and this time face it at the backdrop, and do a test fire, adjust this until it reads at least 1-2 stops more then the key light for that really blown out effect.. (f/16 to f/22 if the key light is f/11)

I'm very much starting out too, so I'm happy to be corrected!
You might like to take a look here: http://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting-blog/11/where-should-you-point-your-light-meter/
 
phil-t said:
A light meter is next on my list.. however I've seen a few youtube videos showing it being used.

1. You want to set the ISO to 100.. for best detail
2. I'd stick to 1/3 f/stop setting, I think all DSLRs have 1/3 f/stop aperture setting abilities?
3. Only meter 1 lamp at a time, as I said, I think you need to aim for an approx shutter/aperture start point, 1/200th and f/11 as an educated guess, so this is what you need to set the keylight to achieve
4. To meter the key/main light, place the meter where the subjects head will be, and aim the lumishpere straight at the keylight, do a test fire, and adjust that light until you get around your desired f stop (e.g. f/11)..
5. Then switch the keylight off, and switch the background light on, I'd place the meter roughly where the subject will be, and this time face it at the backdrop, and do a test fire, adjust this until it reads at least 1-2 stops more then the key light for that really blown out effect.. (f/16 to f/22 if the key light is f/11)

I'm very much starting out too, so I'm happy to be corrected!

When you talk about metering the background, I thought you take a meter reading from the background facing the camera not the other way round. Confused?
 
Also another question. When using the 60d to do portraits is it advisable to set the white balance to custom white balance setting after photographing the back ground using flash and using that image as a reference ?
 
When you talk about metering the background, I thought you take a meter reading from the background facing the camera not the other way round. Confused?

:) Don't worry, it is confusing.. there are some good videos' on youtube, just watch any of the Lastolite Highlight ones..

For backgrounds, I believe you are metering as the camera sees it, so the meter is turned facing the background, to see the lighting coming 'off it' just like the camera does..

For a keylight, you point place it where the subject is, facing the light to see how much light the camera willl then 'see' at the subject..

I can't explain it very well, but the video's show it in action.. then it makes perfect sense :)
 
Also another question. When using the 60d to do portraits is it advisable to set the white balance to custom white balance setting after photographing the back ground using flash and using that image as a reference ?

If you shoot RAW, it doesn't matter (my AutoWB worked fine for JPEG), but your idea is spot on, that would set the WB perfectly for JPEG and at least the RAW would start with the WB at the exact right temperature!
 
:) Don't worry, it is confusing.. there are some good videos' on youtube, just watch any of the Lastolite Highlight ones..

For backgrounds, I believe you are metering as the camera sees it, so the meter is turned facing the background, to see the lighting coming 'off it' just like the camera does..

For a keylight, you point place it where the subject is, facing the light to see how much light the camera willl then 'see' at the subject..

I can't explain it very well, but the video's show it in action.. then it makes perfect sense :)

So what your saying is, put the meter behind the subject pointing at the background, and it should be 2 stops above the keylight? won't that blow the back of the subject?
 
For a keylight, you point place it where the subject is, facing the light to see how much light the camera willl then 'see' at the subject..
No, you generally point it at the camera to figure out how much of the light will reach the camera since as angles relative to the camera get bigger, less light will be reflected towards the camera.

You didn't read:
 
No, you generally point it at the camera to figure out how much of the light will reach the camera since as angles relative to the camera get bigger, less light will be reflected towards the camera.

You didn't read:

:)

That wouldn't work in High-key, the screen is an effective light source, so you have to point the meter at the screen to see how much light is coming from it towards the camera, if you point the meter at the camera when metering the background, it's not going to see the light coming off the backdrop..

Or all the youtube videos I've seen are wrong.. :D
 
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So what your saying is, put the meter behind the subject pointing at the background, and it should be 2 stops above the keylight? won't that blow the back of the subject?

Looking around, I see some different approaches, 2/3 stop more is a commonly discussed starting point for blown out backgrounds, and 1-2 stops banded around in many HiLite discussions..

But basically, from the Sekonic website, in their articles, they say 2/3 stop more measure at the back of the subjects head.. (obviously again, measuring the reflected light coming off the background, so aimed the light meter back at the background from the model)..
 
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:)

That wouldn't work in High-key, the screen is an effective light source, so you have to point the meter at the screen to see how much light is coming from it towards the camera, if you point the meter at the camera when metering the background, it's not going to see the light coming off the backdrop..

Or all the youtube videos I've seen are wrong.. :D
But I specifically quoted your keylight - not your background line ;)
 
hi, not been able to read all of this yet, but my initial thought would be why are you adjusting your shutter speed at all in a studio environment when you're relying upon the strobes.

flashmeter is the best way forward imho
 
If you shoot RAW, it doesn't matter (my AutoWB worked fine for JPEG), but your idea is spot on, that would set the WB perfectly for JPEG and at least the RAW would start with the WB at the exact right temperature!

Yes I shoot in raw - so setting white balance is a good idea ? Also do you recommend setting the red eye reduction or should this purely be left to post production or is it really irrelevant ?
 
smurf4t said:
Yes I shoot in raw - so setting white balance is a good idea ? Also do you recommend setting the red eye reduction or should this purely be left to post production or is it really irrelevant ?

Setting wb in a studio environment is for the last 1 or 2% of perfection. A flash wb should get you fairly close, auto is 90% plus. Custom would be great in a high volume shooting environment for speedy processing-especially of jpegs.
Red eye reduction? Do you understand what causes red eye and what cameras do to try to avoid it?
Start point. No Photographer would ever feel the need to employ red eye reduction. It's for your grandma, to be used in a hope and pray type situation.
 
Yes I shoot in raw - so setting white balance is a good idea ? Also do you recommend setting the red eye reduction or should this purely be left to post production or is it really irrelevant ?

Actually, there is something we overlooked.. the use of the on-board flash!!!

In reality, you shouldn't use the onboard flash as it'll add harsh light to the scene, ruining everything..

However, if you are like me, you are using the onboard flash to trigger the proper studio flashes.. In this case, set the on-board flash to manual, and dial it down to it's minimum setting (1/128th).. I even go as far as putting my hand infront of the flash to prevent it forming a small additional catchlight in the subjects eyes, the studio flashes still see the flash as it reflects of the ceiling..
(Oh, and you don't want red-eye reduction, that does a series of pre-flashes that would mess things up)
 
phil-t said:
Actually, there is something we overlooked.. the use of the on-board flash!!!

In reality, you shouldn't use the onboard flash as it'll add harsh light to the scene, ruining everything..

However, if you are like me, you are using the onboard flash to trigger the proper studio flashes.. In this case, set the on-board flash to manual, and dial it down to it's minimum setting (1/128th).. I even go as far as putting my hand infront of the flash to prevent it forming a small additional catchlight in the subjects eyes, the studio flashes still see the flash as it reflects of the ceiling..
(Oh, and you don't want red-eye reduction, that does a series of pre-flashes that would mess things up)

Not using inboard flash as I have a remote trigger ( fancy stuff !) so I'm lucky I don't need to use it to trigger! I've taken a few different shots and will up load tonight and you guys can all crit me PLS!!
 
Phil V said:
Setting wb in a studio environment is for the last 1 or 2% of perfection. A flash wb should get you fairly close, auto is 90% plus. Custom would be great in a high volume shooting environment for speedy processing-especially of jpegs.
Red eye reduction? Do you understand what causes red eye and what cameras do to try to avoid it?
Start point. No Photographer would ever feel the need to employ red eye reduction. It's for your grandma, to be used in a hope and pray type situation.

Now I get it! Sorry silly question ! Ok no red eye - it was just something I came across on my camera and was actually surprised to see it there in the first place. So I thought I'd missed something ...
 
Phil V said:
Setting wb in a studio environment is for the last 1 or 2% of perfection. A flash wb should get you fairly close, auto is 90% plus. Custom would be great in a high volume shooting environment for speedy processing-especially of jpegs.
Red eye reduction? Do you understand what causes red eye and what cameras do to try to avoid it?
Start point. No Photographer would ever feel the need to employ red eye reduction. It's for your grandma, to be used in a hope and pray type situation.

Phil do u shoot raw or Jpeg? What's your view point. I like raw because for me I can correct my mistakes better as with jpeg I feel I can't as much.
 
Phil do u shoot raw or Jpeg? What's your view point. I like raw because for me I can correct my mistakes better as with jpeg I feel I can't as much.

As a matter of personal workflow, I choose RAW almost always, but in a controlled studio environment it's not that necessary, for some kinds of work (volume shooting in studio conditions) JPEG becomes a no-brainer, would you want to wait for your computer to chew through thousands of RAW files shot under perfect conditions that were going to be output as 9x6s?

It comes downto the 'what a photographer does' which is only what's needed.
 
Now I get it! Sorry silly question ! Ok no red eye - it was just something I came across on my camera and was actually surprised to see it there in the first place. So I thought I'd missed something ...

Red eye reduction is there in the same way as the sport or portrait modes are, to help people who don't want to learn how to use the camera.
 
Red eye reduction is there in the same way as the sport or portrait modes are, to help people who don't want to learn how to use the camera.

got it ! I'm attempting to use my camera properly so will stay clear of those and continue the mission to learn how to use my lovely camera properly ... Thanks for the help... (y)
 
As a matter of personal workflow, I choose RAW almost always, but in a controlled studio environment it's not that necessary, for some kinds of work (volume shooting in studio conditions) JPEG becomes a no-brainer, would you want to wait for your computer to chew through thousands of RAW files shot under perfect conditions that were going to be output as 9x6s?

It comes downto the 'what a photographer does' which is only what's needed.

I hear what you are saying and that makes alot of sense at the moment i'm still not overly confident on my ability to do exposure properly - however i'm trying really hard to get it right (its alot harder than it looks) . So i think for me to be on the safe side so i can edit in post production it might be best to keep it in raw mode ?:shrug:
 
548498_10152150011455206_1309916496_n.jpg

taken with 60d lens 24 - 105mm, ISO 200 , f22 1/250 - at 85mm


424602_10152150011635206_447520202_n.jpg


taken with 60d lens 24 - 105mm, ISO 200 , f22 1/250 - at 45mm


527324_10152150011805206_1715270088_n.jpg


taken with 60d lens 24 - 105mm, ISO 200 , f22 1/250 - at 45mm

541282_10152150012015206_1416239083_n.jpg


taken with 60d lens 24 - 105mm, ISO 200 , f22 1/250 - at 45mm

I was hoping for the white out effect similar to image 1 .
So i placed the back light source right at the back (with a soft box attached - should i have removed the soft box?) then the main light right up in front of the subject to the right on the opposite side to the back light. The back light I had set at 5 and the front light i had set 3.

Any suggestions please ? I know in the bottom 2 i could have done with a reflector to bounce a bit of light back up ?
 
First off i would suggest setting your camera to nearer f10 as above at higher f numbers you will start to get diffraction which will affect your image quality, you can then turn the power down on your lights. What sort of distance have you got between your subject and your background? If you can increase this gap then you can increase the power on your background light without the light spilling round your subject.
Also is your screen calibrated?
 
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F22?
As Phil said, aim for lots lower, my camera only ever goes beyond f8 when I'm desperate to lower a shutter speed.

What's the background material?

Muslin will take a backlight, which can make subject position easier. You should have spotted on the preview that the background light ought to have been brighter, that said, it's an easy cheat to lighten in post.
 
Ok ! I've been playing some more tonight after having a look at this http://www.zarias.com/white-seamless-next-post-this-afternoon/
Thanks MnM ... Much help and thanks everyone else too ... I think i'm slowly slowly starting to get it...


Just a bit confused on a few things ... I have set up my lights differently now. with one at the back of the screen ( mainly so kids dont play with it and they dont have a bright light in their faces ) and i have set 2 lights infront to the side with camera in the middle ? Is this ok ?

Then i started taking my meter readings - First of my main light to the right - I did this from the subject to the camera with the other flashes switched off and got a reading of f8 and did the same with the light on the left and got f8. Now to measure the light from my back light which direction do I point my light meter would it be from the back of the subjects head with meter facing the back wall or would it be from the front of the subjects head meter facing the camera ? I'm assuming i'm meant to get a reading of f11 ?

Also still not sure how to really set up my sekonic light meter - cant seem to figure out if i should set it at full or half or 1/3 ? A bit confused about this light meter set up thing? Does it matter what i've set the light meter at ? I've had it set at full ?

help help !!

Thank you !!!
 
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F22?
As Phil said, aim for lots lower, my camera only ever goes beyond f8 when I'm desperate to lower a shutter speed.

What the background material?
Hi keylite translucent back ground... I have got Muslin I was plaining on using that for the proper shoot it was just a bit of mission to set up while i was just testing things out... But i'm glad to know muslin will work well.

Muslin will take a backlight, which can make subject position easier. You should have spotted on the preview that the background light ought to have been brighter, that said, it's an easy cheat to lighten in post.

I have now put the back light behind the back ground - where as before i was just shining a soft box onto the background (I'm assuming i should have taken the softbox off?) - do you think that would work for muslin too ? I'm trying to avoid the kids getting blasted to much and for there to be more things around that they can play with or get distracted by ? As always thanks
 
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Ok ! I've been playing some more tonight after having a look at this http://www.zarias.com/white-seamless-next-post-this-afternoon/
Thanks MnM ... Much help and thanks everyone else too ... I think i'm slowly slowly starting to get it...


Just a bit confused on a few things ... I have set up my lights differently now. with one at the back of the screen ( mainly so kids dont play with it and they dont have a bright light in their faces ) and i have set 2 lights infront to the side with camera in the middle ? Is this ok ?

Then i started taking my meter readings - First of my main light to the right - I did this from the subject to the camera with the other flashes switched off and got a reading of f8 and did the same with the light on the left and got f8. Now to measure the light from my back light which direction do I point my light meter would it be from the back of the subjects head with meter facing the back wall or would it be from the front of the subjects head meter facing the camera ? I'm assuming i'm meant to get a reading of f11 ?

Also still not sure how to really set up my sekonic light meter - cant seem to figure out if i should set it at full or half or 1/3 ? A bit confused about this light meter set up thing? Does it matter what i've set the light meter at ? I've had it set at full ?

help help !!

Thank you !!!

Caveat - I'm no expert on studio lighting.

For me, light isn't about the light - it's about the shade. So 2 lights of equal power shooting at a subject from matching angles will produce flat shadowless lighting (I wouldn't aim for it for a portrait but it has it's place.)

The meter is the same as the settings on your camera - you can work in full stops of light but get better control with half or third stop increments. If your aperture is set up to change 1/3 at a time - set your lightmeter to the same. It's simpler than it seemed(y)
 
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