How Do I......(numpty asking)

tiler65

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If I buy an external hard disk and it is fat32 (?) How do I format it to NTFS (?)

What is IDE , SATA eSata etc.........

Do I need to do this?

When I was in Maplins earlier today I got totally confused at what I needed.

I have a 18month Dell Doimension e520 running win xp pro with 4 gig of ram

Hard drive (C) was 250gb is now freespace 30gb :help: I think but somehow it now has a (D) 62gb, free space 58gb, drive which I think was/is for backups, this appeared after a friend put norton ghost on my PC but i no longer use it.

As you can see I need more space for photos, what is my best option,

I need it to be numpty friendly, resonably priced & have a good longevity record.

When I have said set up is it as easy as dragging and dropping folders from one drive to the next?

I use LR and CS4 so I take I will need to reimport all my files back into LR once they have been moved to a different drive.

Sorry for the long post.
 
Ignore the IDE/Sata part, as that's only for internal HDD's and the HDD inside the actual external caddy.

eSata is a new interface, but you probably won't have that on the machine, as it's pretty new.

You either want USB or FireWire, depending on whether the PC has a FireWire port.

You can format the drive from FAT32 to NTFS by going into disk management on the PC and selecting it in there - to get to Disk Management, right click on 'My Computer' and choose 'Manage' - this will bring up disk management, and in there you'll have disk management underneath Defragment.

Hope that helps some :)
 
ignore the IDE / SATA stuff if you are getting an external drive, you don't need to worry about what's inside the box. However you do need to worry about the connection system, which currently has choices of: eSATA, Firewire, USB 2.0

Don't touch eSATA drives unless you are techy. Its ultimately higher performance but not fool proof. Ignore them.

USB drives are generally very transportable between PCs, as most modern PCs have anything from 4 to 12 USB ports available and not all have a firewire port, although I understand firewire is more common on Macs

So get a USB drive.

Just be clear if you want a desktop or a portable drive. The desktops drives use drives designed for desktop PCs, the portable ones use laptop drives. Desktop drives are faster and cheaper per storage space but usually have an external plug in transformer box and dc power lead. The portable drives are smaller, a bit slower, more rugged, more expensive, not available in really big sizes and often can run directly off the power from USB ports (possibly at a further reduced speed, they may need a plugin power transformer for full speed, I don't use them so don't know whats common)


USB drives can arrive ready partitioned these days. I recently got some Iomega 1TB USB drives and they were preformatted as NTFS.
FAT32 has drive size (I can't remember what, 750GB rings a bell, maybe) and more importantly file size limitations (4 GB I think?, I'm ready to be told I'm wrong) and so I'd run NTFS as preferred system. NTFS has other technical advantages to do with the way the data is indexed and stored, as well as security information (file ownership and editing rights).

just a little warning: formatting a drive will delete all data, so don't play with it on your existing internal drives

sounds like your friend may have used Norton Ghost to partition (split up) your internal drive and used the new partition (drive D: ) as a backup drive. Its not good practice for data to be backed up on the same physical drive as if the drive fails you lose the backup too, although it can still help with system error recovery if the whole PC is backed up to it or for recovering files erased since the last backup. If there's free space on D you could still use it as a normal drive, but you would be better advised to free it up by reducing D and expanding C drive although I get the impression that could be a challenge without knowledgeable assistance and certainly safer after you have purchased a big USB drive and you have backed up the system to the USB drive.

USB drives are simple to use. With PC already on, or off, just plug in and power up. 20 seconds later the PC says found hardware and you'll be able to see the drive on "My Computer" and drag & drop to/from it. They work just like an internal drive, but can be quite a bit slower.

A few words of warning though.
Don't just pull the cable out to disconnect, as depending on the settings you have in your system it may not have finished writing all data to the drive, you can get data corruption. So before unplugging the USB drive, its best to switch off the whole PC, or tell the PC to disconnect the drive (either: right click on the drive icon in My Computer or you probably get a small icon on the task bar in the bottom right of the screen that you can use instead).
Also don't move the drive around whilst its in use, desktop drives can be physically damaged internally by movement whilst operating.


prices should be 60-70 plus vat for 1 TB. Watch Maplins prices, they are realtively slow to react to the market, their offers are sometimes for obsolete stock, and their offer prices more than standard prices from the faster moving mail order competition. Compare prices with Dabs.com, scan.co.uk, overclockers.co.uk, (watch for carriage charges though) you can even get good deals from play.com and amazon.co.uk, although if you have Maplins on your doorstep their tech help and easy returns may feature more than a few quid on price

Hope that makes it all clearer and helps, sorry for the really long post
 
Thanks both for the help & to clear a few things up.

I will do some more looking for HDD and then I will ask more questions........... sorry.

Can any one help with how I should re-partion my C/D drive so that it is one drive again please , will I lose any data by doing this?
 
Can any one help with how I should re-partion my C/D drive so that it is one drive again please , will I lose any data by doing this?

YOU MAY LOSE ALL DATA if you hit the wrong button at some point, it can be a one way process. Its easy enough and riskish free if everything is OK, you know what you are doing and you are careful, and there's nothing silly goes wrong (power loss or spill coffee on the keyboard, or cat decides it wants a cuddle :shrug: at the wrong point)

Priorities: First get the USB drive, do a full backup, make sure you know you have the windows disk to hand in case you need a full rebuild (unlikely but possible), then find somebody reliable who can do the repartition for you or sit alongside you. It won't take long.

Me, I'd fret about it for days before pushing the buttons :D then wonder why I was so worried.
 
I'd quite happily partition my live system...with a full backup made, just in case.

However, as Wookie says...it's not something you just do if you have no idea of what you are doing..

Typically it's along the lines of:

- Defragment both partitions a few times each (once should do it, twice is safe bet)
- Shut down windows, and boot into a disk partitioning tool (I can highly reccomend gparted, it's got a graphical interface and there is a load of documentation floating about and I have never had a problem...apart from when I've not defragmented..in which case it will refuse to do the job and leave everything in tact)
- delete the unwanted D partition
- extend your C partition back to the full size of the disk
- Hit a magic button and it will grind away for a little bit and voila, C: is back to its former glory.

It's largely a low risk operation, but understandably daunting.

Shame you are using XP (I suspect you are not making use of the 4GB RAM!) - Vista has a tool built in to it's backup utility to take a full image of the disk - so you could have done that as an additional backup so that you could just restore the entire system and files in one go if something went wrong. There is plenty of free disk imaging software about though..but I suspect you are either lost or bored if you have read this far :p
 
a little story, there was that moment, about 15 -20 years ago ?, when using a massive PLC (industrial machinery controller) programming terminal (portable ! probably 15 or 20kg, dislocated your shoulder carrying it, about the size of a suitcase with a dropdown keyboard on one end and built in green CRT) that was text MSDOS based and I typed "del *.* return y y" but I was not in the data directory I intended but in root . . . at about 6pm, at the bottom of a 20 foot ladder in a machine pit, in a factory that had shut for the night, 200 miles from the office.

I now like to know there is a backup handy BEFORE I do something stupid :)
 
When I add a new external drive and you say 'do a full back up' does this mean everything on my C drive (programs and files), will I need to reinstall all my programs?

Will everything be copied?

I need a little more help I think in understanding the procedure.
 
a backup depends on both your needs and what the backup software can achieve.

If the backup software allows it you can backup a complete multi drive system, just the system drive ( C: ), or just a selection of data areas within the drives.

many backup software packages compress data so that it is smaller, but then you need their software to access it, not your normal operating system nor any other software. That can be acceptable, but you may instead want normal file access (eg. so you can acecess data using a different PC) which is selectable on some backup software but not all.

If you have a system that is running bad or creaking at the seams with lousy software that you want to get rid of anyway then you can look at "data only" backups and decide that if you lose the system then you will do a clean reinstall of the operating system and the software you need from the stack of original disks that have gathered dust for the last couple of years since original install, and you'll also have to redo any updates. But if doing "data only" you often need to be manually selective and careful to ensure you include all the necessary files. Be sure that you include all data that you will want to recover, including email, my documents, favorites, any custom software configuration files, shared data, cookies, any data directories you created . . . Some software (eg Vista) has simplified interfaces that claims it will pick up all data of certain types, but personally I'm not that trusting as it does not tell you what exactly its backing up or where from (I like to know what its doing).

Alternatively if you cannot find or have all the original software disks or there is a product key/serial number/security thing that you've lost, or you just dont want any hassle or the risk of missing something, then a complete system backup is usually possible with most backup software. Vista's own complete backup scores well on this although it has some quirks (does not appear to backup to a remote drive across a network, that's currently giving me a little trouble). These complete system backups can be very simple. However you also need to understand their method for restoring, as if you trash the system drive totally you need some way to start up the machine to access your backup. Sometimes you need to make a special boot disk (before you kill your system) or you need a windows operating system disk, or you will need to partially reload the original operating system. Make sure you have the necessary tools to restore, and have the instructions printed off too if you don't have a second PC, not locked in a pdf file that you cannot access.

so . . . what's the operating system ? does it have built-in backup software?

if you are going to buy a USB hard drive soon then you may want to select one with backup software included
 
sorry, I should learn to read ... xp pro, that's got built-in backup software, ntbackup.
Not the easiest to get your head around as it can be setup to be very selective, although I think it may have a straight forward full system backup wizard too. It'll be lurking in system accessories or system tools. Fire it up and see if the instructions make sense to you. I recall something along the lines that you need to make a recovery disk and have the windows disk as well as the backup data for a full system backup. I only ever used it for data only backups, I've reloaded windows & all the software when disaster has struck and taken the opportunity to clean out the accumulated dross.
 
you can convert a drive from FAT32 to NTFS without needing to format it.

load up a command prompt and type in:

convert X: /fs:ntfs

(where X is the drive letter you want to convert)

you might be prompted to restart for the convertion to take place if it is the windows drive.
 
Thanks for the contiued help wookie but I think you are starting to lose me a little.

Please explain......
1. What does a backup actually back up.
2. How much space does a back up need
3. How do I access my 'back up' if something goes wrong.
4. Are you free after 7 tonight to come and sort my PC out........lol.
 
Thanks for the contiued help wookie but I think you are starting to lose me a little.

Please explain......
1. What does a backup actually back up.
2. How much space does a back up need
3. How do I access my 'back up' if something goes wrong.
4. Are you free after 7 tonight to come and sort my PC out........lol.

1 - whatever you want it to
2 - depends on the above
3 - with the software you backed it up with
4 - no :p
 
:bang:


1. your data and /or your software including operating system. What choices you get depends on the limitations of the backup software you use. The cheapest software generally backups up everything and gives you very little ability to be selective.

2. the same as the original data or less. How much less depends if it compresses it (most do), how aggressive the compression is, and whether the data is already compressed (eg. jpegs are already compressed so don't compress much further).

3. depends on the backup software you use. Usually the data is compressed and stored in big files with strange alphanumeric names. You have to use the backup software to access it again. Some can selectively find a file within it, some can fix your operating system from it and some just dump the whole lot back.

4 NO :razz: I'm trying to fix my PC.

:D




neil: I don't think that sort of command line is a safe option here, in fact I don't think command lines are good
 
why on earth not?


as in not good for tiler.

I'm quite happy with command lines in a knowledgeable and able to pick up the mess and sort it out when it goes wrong sort of environment
 
sorry but i disagree. its only a convert command, its not going to do any harm if used in exactly the way mentioned..

the convert command is the quickest and easiest (and i believe the MS recommended) way of converting FAT32 drives to NTFS.
 
sorry but i disagree. its only a convert command, its not going to do any harm if used in exactly the way mentioned..

the convert command is the quickest and easiest (and i believe the MS recommended) way of converting FAT32 drives to NTFS.

I think you are answering the question of "how to I convert my drive" as opposed to the question of "how do I take a backup and then extend my C: partition on my main hard drive"

Two different issues here I think
 
neil, I reckon the fat32 / ntfs conversion is a red herring, and an old one now. As I understand it, the original fat32/ntfs question originated from all the techno babble that the OP was bombarded with in Maplins while trying to buy a USB drive to solve a PC drive capacity problem.


You still with us Tiler?

summarising:

problem 1. The C: drive is getting full, yes?

problem 2. Not all physical hard drive space available because partitioned into C: and an unused D:

problem 3. No alternative drive space currently available for either backup or relocating data

problem 4. What USB drive to buy?

solutions to immediate problems are

A. Need some advice on USB purchase, so can . . .

B Get a USB hard drive, in order to . . .

C. Do full system backup to USB drive, in order to . . .

D. Make C: space bigger by adjusting partitions


that will keep the system ticking over for a while AND provide a highly recommended backup facility. The system is then going to need additional storage space (and backup space) for filling up with photos (which is why we're all here).

am I making any sense today?
 
Right.

I am still here.

1 I need more space.

2 My drive has been partitioned into 2 drives C approx 170gb & D approx 52 gb.

3 I have only 30gb left on my C drive, my D drive which was a back up drive has 50gb on it

4 Can I repartition the drive so I do not have a d drive and the space is then put back ontop C drive, whilst not losing any data.

5 I want a usb external drive/s (a backup drive for photos too) to add my photos to so that it does not clog up my master C drive

6 My question about back ups is 'What is backed up? The programs, photos, music, help files, all the junk in my MS outlook folders etc?'

7 I need laymans terms please.

8 Thanks for replying
 
OK, :thinking:, in reverse order

8. no problem

7. that could be a problem, but we'll try

6. what's backed up? it's potentally anything but what YOU need is a simple backup of everything.

You already have backup software on XP. Have a look, you don't need to finish the procedure andstart it running but open it up and work through as far as the select backup destination screens, just hit cancel and drop out of it when you get there or if its scary :cautious:.
I just had a look on our XP Pro laptop, you should find it here:
Start>All Programs>accessories>system tools>backup.
You'll find it defaults to the simple "wizard" mode and gives you simple options, about 3rd screen in gives you the opportunity to backup the complete PC or various bits of the PC.
You can switch to advanced mode on the first screen and it gives you lots of detailed options.
Have a look (y)

5. "I want a usb external drive/s (a backup drive for photos too) to add my photos to so that it does not clog up my master C drive"

I'm not sure that is 100% the best solution. A few things to consider:

- Your existing internal hard drive still has a significant capacity available IF the unused D: partition can be reclaimed as C:, or alternatively you can move some of the existing stored data to D:.
However, I doubt it will last long. There's a better way, keep reading . . .

- Just be sure, what sort of data are you storing? XP itself takes up about 8 GB max, plus the same for a reasonable selection of application software, say 20GB total for all the bits that do the work.
A quick check: are you also storing masses of junk: multiple copies of teh same stuff, temporary files, unused software and trials, downloads for multiple upgrades, games, saved games, 1001 exciting fonts free with this months PCmag, general downloaded rubbish, millions of emails with funny/dodgy attachments ?
Lots of clutter can build up on a PC, (quite quickly with internet) and a little bit here and there soon adds up. Would a spring clean help? however . . .

- If you really have filled 120GB with photos in 18 months then there is a simple answer, you need BIG storage, it won't get smaller and storage is cheap now.

- Keeping working data and the backup of it on the same physical drive is really bad practice. It needs to be on 2 separate devices.
The most likely disasters are accidental erasing, hard drive failure (the one most often considered and quite possible with very little warning), theft, or fire/flood.
Other than accidental erasing, if you store the backup on the same drive you are stuffed. Disaster recovery backups should be placed somewhere safe well away from the working copy of the data (eg. keep the backup at a friend or relative's house).
You need a separate backup, and a USB drive is the way to do that.
It needs to be sized to match your working storage capacity.

- when you say "clogging up" do you just mean "full" or is the system too "slow"?

- USB hard drives are a lot slower than internal hard drives, this will affect loading of photos into editing software. Maximum data rate on SATA is 3000Mb/s, on USB2.0 it is 480Mb/s (plus a more convoluted path through the system on shared data routes)

4. "Can I repartition the drive so I do not have a d drive and the space is then put back ontop C drive, whilst not losing any data."

Yes, you can adjust the partition sizes, it should work fine, but messing around with hard drives at this level is a risk to the data. You really really should do a backup first, and you should be keeping a backup anyway. I have a better solution, keep reading . . .

3 & 2. free space available is getting tight and not where you can use it. You've started worrying while there is still a little time to sort it (y)

1. got the message . . MORE . . its the how thats the tricky bit.


I just had a quick look at your links if that's your website and the alamy link, :eek: is that your work? :notworthy:, you need to get your PC system and data storage structured properly, I'd hate to hear you'd lost your work due to a PC glitch.


If you are struggling with a lack of techy ability on PCs then I think that most of the fixes that the tech savvy folks would use are going to be too daunting and/or too risky. That rules out most of the cheapo and "you just need to do this" fiddly solutions as they invariably make things messy, which makes errors more likely if you dont know what is happening and don't get the software looking in the right bits, and all the automated recovery stuff fails when you need it.

So, for you, I think simple to use and maintain is important.

Instead of splitting data onto a separate USB drive consider getting the existing hard drive in your system replaced with a 1TB system drive. That way you keep all your working data in its default locations and you don't have to worry about using complicated backup software that needs to be told what to select, and you can stick with simple one button does everything backup solutions.
I suspect you would need to trust a hard drive upgrade like this to your local PC repair shop, they should be able to directly transfer everything onto the new drive (they need to be clearly told to transfer everything, NOT to do a clean install of just XP!) and they should also make sure xp runs OK as they may need to re-activate the XP license, not a big issue if its got the licence sticker on the PC. They should be able to do it at a reasonable price, about £100 would be my guess, maybe £120 tops? (1TB hard drive = £50, and its not going take much time, they may even be able to take the old drive in part payment :LOL:, although you probably want to keep it to stop them knicking all your photos off it :bat:)

BEFORE giving them the PC, in fact before anything, go ASAP and get a 1TB USB drive. Just do it.
Then follow the instrctions in the XP backup wizard that I've mentioned and do a full system backup, don't forget you'll need a floppy disk too.


is that simple enough?
 
Thanks Wookie, you have done yourself proud.

Off to bed now but I have read what you have written an I will reply in the morning.

You have made much more sense to me tonight.

Last thing ..........................

I do not have a floppy.........................drive that is. (boot-able CD instead?)

Thanks immensely for your time.
 
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