How do you get people to practice with?

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Mike
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Hi folks.
I'm trying to no improve my portrait photography because I'd like to do photography for a living. I am a self employed car valeter/detailer but with arthritis in my neck and wrist I'm not going to be able to do it until retirement. I have been taking every other Wednesday off to practice and sort my website out, which coincides with my wife's day off to. The problem is she is getting fed up of being my gunipig so I could do with using other people as models. We've asked two friends, one male and one female, who have said yes but don't seem to keen.

So what's the best way to go about this? I thought about asking on Facebook and offering some digital copies and a strut framed print for their time. From them I would ask for permission to post on here fro crit and on my website and facebook page. Also feedback on how I conducted the session etc. The problem being I need people that don't work on Wednesdays. What do you guys do?
 
It depends what you're after. There are lots of pro and amateur models to be found on PurplePort, mainly inclined towards the fashion & glamour end of things but there are all sorts if you look. Depending on what you can offer you may find some willing to work for images (aka TF) rather than pay. Though paying removes a great deal of stress. One thing to watch for - many models have a limited range of poses they work through. You'll need to explain that you don't want them to do anything other than what you direct them to do. A good model won't have any trouble with that.

Declaration: Use the link above to sign up and I get a month's unlimited membership for free.

Or like me you could take inspiration from blakester's work and just get out and stop random strangers. I pop out from work at lunchtimes and stop visitors to the local nature reserve.
 
Thank you for your advise (y)
I think 1 to 1 would be helpful but it would be nice to do it with someone form TP in my area so I will look into that.
 
The only thing with my approach to portraits and the strangers project is that you don't really get a lot of time to 'practice' with your subject.
Once in a while someone comes along that 'gets' the project and you could spend more time with them.
Perhaps organising a meet with like minded photographers in your area, practice on each other?
 
Ask your friends/family. Build a body of work that is of a decent quality. Once people see the quality of your work, it's easier to attract others to practice on!

Totally agree , once you have a few good photo in your portfolio there will be no ends of willing model for practice.
 
If you seriously want to make money from portraits then don't bother trying to learn by yourself, it rarely works

Some pals of mine are self-teaching and frankly, after two years of trying, hiring the odd model and studios too, they still produce at least as much crap work as they do good. This is because they fundamentally don't understand what they are doing and can't analyze why when something's worked well why it worked, nor can they figure out when something's not worked, why it didn't work

A 1-2-1 (probably several) with someone worth paying (that's someone who can teach as much as shoot) can save years of effort and bored wives; and when your work is recognisably good people will volunteer every time you ask for a muse. But you'll still find good models make for the best photos most of the time, and its easier too

So stop annoying your wife, invest in yourself and you'll soon see a leap in your efforts & understanding :)

Good luck

Dave
 
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To add to what Dave said (all of which is pretty good advice), I'll add a note of caution for anyone who wants to make money from portraiture but finds it difficult getting willing models.

Portraiture is about people, therefore success is about people skills, and if you struggle to take people's photos for free, how are you going to convince them to have you do it for £500?

Look at the work of both Shaheed and Iain, neither of whom are 'professional' or have urgent plans to be, but both are brilliant people photographers.

There are many ways of learning the technical aspects of photography, posing and lighting, but more importantly you also have to be gregarious and confidant around people to succeed.
 
There are many ways of learning the technical aspects of photography, posing and lighting, but more importantly you also have to be gregarious and confidant around people to succeed.

I've said it often.. Lots of photographers, self included, get bogged down in the technical stuff. The soft skills can be taught too, just not from Youtube videos.
 
If you want to practice lighting that you've learned, or seen demonstrated, I'd argue that you're better off paying for a model that knows what they're doing, rather than getting someone new on a TFP basis. You'll get much more out of it with someone who knows how to pose. Unless it's the posing of people you want to practice of course, in which case it might be more useful to get someone who doesn't know how to pose themselves.
 
Thanks for all the advice folks. I definitely want to do a course and have had a look on Google but need to have a phone around. If anyone can recommend someone in the East Devon area that would be great. I have done a shoot of a male friend of mine and will get the images up soon, I've been very busy with the day job lately. It's is difficult to do background shoots now because my wife now works every day (shes a childminder) and so is difficult to set up the background, which does invoice moving the sofa into another room for anything more than head and shoulder shots. We are planning an extension which will help with this. But that doesn't stop me doing location shoots or even setting up at friend/family houses for now. Ps sorry there's no line spaces, my tablet isn't letting me.
 
Hire a model, attend events where people dress up and expect their photos to be taken.
Both of these give you time to set yourself as they expect photographers to take a little time and take multiple images.
It will also give you a chance to give a bit of direction, a decent model will know how to flow through their poses and if you are paying a model it doesn't matter if you come away with nothing portfolio worthy just treat the session as part of your learning curve.
 
Hire a model, attend events where people dress up and expect their photos to be taken.
Both of these give you time to set yourself as they expect photographers to take a little time and take multiple images.
It will also give you a chance to give a bit of direction, a decent model will know how to flow through their poses and if you are paying a model it doesn't matter if you come away with nothing portfolio worthy just treat the session as part of your learning curve.

I go to events as well, it's easier to approach someone when they almost expect to be photographed but all that will teach you is people skills and getting good quality photos but they won't be models so posing is less likely from that genre. As has been said previously, hire a model if it's poses you need to know, it's amazing how fluid they are when the shutter starts clicking. You will also pick up how to direct a model as well, I've noticed from the 6 months I've been doing this sort of thing that I now have more input on their body shaping and what I like to see in camera, it's a slow process for me though but my confidence is getting better.
 
We are going to Exeter Comic Con soon and I've been planning on taking the camera since we decided to go for that reason. Hopefully I will get some good enough to post. The only problem I can foresee is other people.
 
We are going to Exeter Comic Con soon and I've been planning on taking the camera since we decided to go for that reason. Hopefully I will get some good enough to post. The only problem I can foresee is other people.

I've just booked 2 tickets for 09:00 Sunday 26th Mike- will you be there on that date?

I fancied giving my 70-200mm a day out and I'll run interference on the "Other People" so you can get some shots lol


Les

Ps good luck in the Portrait business mate
 
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Some pals of mine are self-teaching and frankly, after two years of trying, hiring the odd model and studios too, they still produce at least as much crap work as they do good. This is because they fundamentally don't understand what they are doing and can't analyze why when something's worked well why it worked, nor can they figure out when something's not worked, why it didn't work

Amen to that :D

I could do with a course myself..

My latest plan is to get a list of emotions and talk my wife through them as I try to capture them on camera... but there is a lot I could learn from a course.
 
Great book I picked up was Peter Hurley "The Headshot". He has some great tips to produce that natural look which I have managed to put into practice with great affect.

Posing wise, Sue Bryce & Bambi Cantrell are good starting points I found to build a basic idea.
 
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Read through this with interest. Although I have no interest in taking it up professionally, I also struggle to obtain good portrait images and suspect it comes down to lighting and camera management and could really use help. Oh that and lack of people skills!

I agree that an unwilling wife - or worse other less sympathetic subject - is not ideal to practice on. You rush to get things right, screwing up the image in the process. If you hear of suitable training days, I'd also be very interested.
 
It depends what you're after. There are lots of pro and amateur models to be found on PurplePort, mainly inclined towards the fashion & glamour end of things but there are all sorts if you look. Depending on what you can offer you may find some willing to work for images (aka TF) rather than pay. Though paying removes a great deal of stress. One thing to watch for - many models have a limited range of poses they work through. You'll need to explain that you don't want them to do anything other than what you direct them to do. A good model won't have any trouble with that.

I get most of my practice subjects form PurplePort (great images btw Simon - I distributed some "love" ;) ). Agree with Simon - there is an added stress to TF - you need to deliver as the images are, in effect, the payment. As long you can deliver something, reliably though, do this, and then mix in a bit of experimentation. To start of with, paying for a model means you are free to try out whatever you need to. I've taught myself to do this over the last few years and you can absolutely teach yourself everything you need to know, from books and videos including the softer skills as long as you also practice them. However, learning, like teaching, is also a skill - not everybody can do it this way, and 1:1 tuition will work better for many. It doesn't work for me tbh - you tell me I need to do this and that, and I won't retain it: I need to see the problem, and overcome it, and understand why the solution works - not just apply potion A to rash B. I tend to watch videos on YouTube, and on KelbyOne which is an excellent resource btw, and then reverse engineer why these photographers do what they do (as many of them don't know why it works, just that it does, and lots of the reasons handed out are incorrect). I also use a lighting simulator called "SetALight3D". Often, I'll just de-construct an image and recreate it in the simulator. When I've done this, I'll know how the look was created (or one way of doing it anyway) and why it works. However! (and this is key, at least for me): I then need to actually do it: I test out the lighting principles at home, and then hire a studio and model. Nine times out of ten, I get the result I got in the simulator, and then, when you know you can re-produce the style, and why it works, you can get creative around that theme.

Great book I picked up was Peter Hurley "The Headshot". He has some great tips to produce that natural look which I have managed to put into practice with great affect..

I learnt a lot from Hurley - and this book is a great reference. If you are a KelbyOne subscriber, check out his course on there. It's 90% about getting the emotional response, and expression out of your subject, He does talk about the lighting for a 10 minutes at the beginning, however at the time the video was made, he only really lit his subjects one way - white background, and 2-4 fluorescent tube banks around the subject. There's nothing special about the tubes btw - a lot of people bang on about this like there's some magic fairy dust in Kinoflow lights, but you can create the same look with strip-boxes and strobes - it's only ever about the size and distance really. Colour and intensity can be dealt with easily. Once the lights are up, it's just a more sophisticated Photo-Me! booth and the real skill at that point is getting a response from your subject. Hurley spends a couple of hours with each of his subjects (and charges them $1200 for a head-shot) however a lot of his methods definitely work in a shorter time: I did a charity head-shot session a couple of weeks ago - and shot 46 people in four hours. The first 6 shots on this page are from that session http://owenlloydphotography.com/?page_id=2033 That gave me just over 5 minutes per person - sometimes shorter when there was a large queue. There are some reliable techniques Hurley teaches that you can use to go from zero to natural expression in a few minutes: ask them about themselves; what they do, where they've been, where they're going. Look for something that is going to make them laugh. I often ask them to portray emotions (happy, sad, anger,) and get more and more ridiculous with my requests ("Now give me.... ambivalence!"). I'm not really interested in their impressions of these emotions - I'm just waiting for them to crack up at the whole thing and then click! click! click! as the laughter fades to a smile etc. Keep clicking though and telling them positive things (great, cool look, awesome.. love that...). I use a tripod, and a small aperture for these white background affairs. This means I can focus on the eye, and then come out from behind the camera and keep eye contact with the subject. I use a radio remote for the shutter and sit next to the camera, and click away.

Many people in our society seem to have an ingrained aversion to having their photos taken. It's almost as if, by appearing enthusiastic at the idea of having your picture taken, you are somehow vain and narcissistic, and we get the "ooo no, I'd break the camera!; I never look good in photos" statements designed to make you appear modest, but really just make you look like a compete Diva. I do find these phrases funny as the same people who say these things are perfectly happy to wander around all day in full view - wearing the same face :) Once you have a few decent shots though, show them these and most will come round. In the meantime, places like PurplePort allow you to find people who would very much like to have their picture taken :)
 
Just been practising on a lovely co operative model, very understanding and patient. Cost me nothing, other than a lovely cup of coffee. It was my missus, although she costs me more in other ways. :)
 
Huh, mine is the most UN-COPERATIVE person you could meet! Thank goodness for Purpleport.
 
Huh, mine is the most UN-COPERATIVE person you could meet! Thank goodness for Purpleport.
You need to start taking photos candidly, when they are so used to you, you then take them normally. It worked for me, with my missus. ;)
 
You need to start taking photos candidly, when they are so used to you, you then take them normally. It worked for me, with my missus. ;)
Tried all that, I've given up with her to be honest. She's a difficult woman at the best of times let alone when a camera is pointing at her.
 
You need to start taking photos candidly, when they are so used to you, you then take them normally. It worked for me, with my missus. ;)

Buy her a new coat/dress she wants and have the camera ready. She will be so shocked and over the moon with the coat/dress, that she might even pose for a couple of shots.

Then, next day expect to get back to the likes of PP. :( (Probably cheaper than a never-ending supply of new clothes too).

I can certainly sympathise with your position. Its not easy.

(Professional models also know how to strike a pose instantly, keep their eyes open, and generally do as you ask).
 
Buy her a new coat/dress she wants and have the camera ready. She will be so shocked and over the moon with the coat/dress, that she might even pose for a couple of shots.

Then, next day expect to get back to the likes of PP. :( (Probably cheaper than a never-ending supply of new clothes too).

I can certainly sympathise with your position. Its not easy.

(Professional models also know how to strike a pose instantly, keep their eyes open, and generally do as you ask).

My missus like most women, has too much clothing. But she wants more, might treat her to a new top. Camera at the ready :). No point in me paying for models, photos are only for me and family. My photos are only for memories.
 
It's not ever as simple as 'use the missus to practice'.

Some people don't mind having their picture taken, some love it, and some hate it.

Between us we have 4 kids who have spent their entire life having their picture taken. 2 absolutely love it, 1 tolerates it and sometimes plays up to the camera, and one absolutely gates it.

If my Mrs depended on me as a model, she'd never have got any good.
 
I started the thread because I keep using my mrs. I want to gain more experience with other people but also it's not fair on her to be my guinea pig all the time.
 
I started the thread because I keep using my mrs. I want to gain more experience with other people but also it's not fair on her to be my guinea pig all the time.
Do you have a day job?
Local pub?
Mates?
Relatives?
Local theatre groups need headshots?

All of these people would like free pictures, Facebook profiles, dating site profiles, etc. It's simply a case of broaching a conversation about how people don't have decent images generally, and how much a bit of thought can create a much better picture, the next thing you know they're asking you if you could possibly take some for them.

Like I say all the time to this question, if you can't manage that conversation, then you've no chance when it comes to ending it with - so that's us all booked in then and the shoot will be £150, I'll send my bank details with the booking confirmation.
 
It's not ever as simple as 'use the missus to practice'.

I haven't yet had the nerve to subject my wife to a shoot. I'm more concerned with showing her at her best than I am with any number of strangers; I'd hate to disappoint her.

Like I say all the time to this question, if you can't manage that conversation, then you've no chance when it comes to ending it with - so that's us all booked in then and the shoot will be £150, I'll send my bank details with the booking confirmation.

Not just that - if you can't manage that conversation then the shoot itself is unlikely to be an unalloyed success. I've got a performing background and liken a a good shoot to a private performance. The subject is performing but the photographer is too, you need to really ramp up those energy levels to get the best out of the subject. I was reading about the legendary Hollywood photographer George Hurrell - he would get up to all kinds of stunts, pratfalls, jokes, leaping around, whatever it took to get a response from the jaded screen stars.

Some of us feel more of a t*t bouncing around in front of someone we know really well than those we see only occasionally - another reason to find someone other than your partner.
 
I haven't yet had the nerve to subject my wife to a shoot. I'm more concerned with showing her at her best than I am with any number of strangers; I'd hate to disappoint her.



Not just that - if you can't manage that conversation then the shoot itself is unlikely to be an unalloyed success. I've got a performing background and liken a a good shoot to a private performance. The subject is performing but the photographer is too, you need to really ramp up those energy levels to get the best out of the subject. I was reading about the legendary Hollywood photographer George Hurrell - he would get up to all kinds of stunts, pratfalls, jokes, leaping around, whatever it took to get a response from the jaded screen stars.

Some of us feel more of a t*t bouncing around in front of someone we know really well than those we see only occasionally - another reason to find someone other than your partner.

Picture of the missus......I've more chance of finding a piece of hay in a giant stack of needles. With a blindfold on. With my hands and legs tied up.

I have two daughters who occasionally let me take their pic. I've taken the odd photo of other people. I've recently bought a film camera and wanted some new subjects so I put together a few pics and told people to Direct message me for a chance of having a portrait done. Got quite a good response rate. One even asked how much it would cost - as it was a film test I said there was no charge.

Totally agree with the performing.....it's an interaction. The subject and photographer need to bring the best out in each other.
 
the photographer is too, you need to really ramp up those energy levels to get the best out of the subject. I was reading about the legendary Hollywood photographer George Hurrell - he would get up to all kinds of stunts, pratfalls, jokes, leaping around, whatever it took to get a response from the jaded screen stars.

Some of us feel more of a t*t bouncing around in front of someone we know really well than those we see only occasionally - another reason to find someone other than your partner.

Should be said that this is just one way of doing things, and of course you don't need to do that at all. The best portrait shooters I know are very quiet and calm, and wouldn't dream of prancing around and resorting to silly tricks to force reactions from their sitters.

As always, do what works for you.
 
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