How do you get your developer to temperature?

Tom Pinchenzo

Tom Pinchenzo

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Tom
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Do you fine tune the temp with hot/cold before diluting your stock solution? Or mix it up then warm it to temp? If so, how do you warm it? Sitting it in hot water takes ages but seems the most accurate.
 
Similar to Mads & Simon then check with a thermometer before use.

Like all my methods I don’t do precision. If it’s 19 or 21 degrees I don’t get fussed over it......

If I plan in advance then I’ll put the mixed solutions out in the warmth of my home ( they are stored in a cold place!!) late afternoon so by the time I want to use them later in the evening they have come up to room temp which is close to what I need them to be.
 
Ok - thanks. And do you bother getting your stop and fixer to 20? Doesn’t seem necessary to me as unlike developer, it doesn’t matter how much ‘stopping’ or ‘fixing’ you do.
 
Tom Pinchenzo said:
Ok - thanks. And do you bother getting your stop and fixer to 20? Doesn’t seem necessary to me as unlike developer, it doesn’t matter how much ‘stopping’ or ‘fixing’ you do.
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No!

Somewhere near though after all at this time of year it comes out of its storage place with a temp of about 10 Celsius which , not least of all will shock the film emulsion when stop is added .
This can cause a crazy paving effect..... there’s a name for it but I forget what it is for the moment.
 
Tom Pinchenzo said:
Ok - thanks. And do you bother getting your stop and fixer to 20? Doesn’t seem necessary to me as unlike developer, it doesn’t matter how much ‘stopping’ or ‘fixing’ you do.
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From the Ilford FP4+ data sheet https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1919/product/688/
Stop, fix, wash and rinse. For best results it is recommended that all process solutions are kept at the same temperature or at least within 5ºC (9ºF) of the developer temperature.
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Also if wash water is too cold it is very much less effective ;)
 
I used to get my dev to 20 with a lot of faffing with the microwave. But since watching SFLAB's video on hot/cold developer I'm not that fussy. It goes in the microwave now for about 6 seconds and done. Anything from 18-22 will do me fine. Our cold water is like ice and hot water is nuclear hot so that's the quickest way for me to get the right temp. Stop & Fix are pre-mixed and stored at room temp which is good enough for me. Chemistry is kept in a spare kitchen cupboard so it's always around 15-18 degrees I guess.
 
Asha said:
No!

Somewhere near though after all at this time of year it comes out of its storage place with a temp of about 10 Celsius which , not least of all will shock the film emulsion when stop is added .
This can cause a crazy paving effect..... there’s a name for it but I forget what it is for the moment.
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So I should be storing my chems cooler than room temp? Currently they live in a cupboard in my living room...
 
I use Rodinal which is a one shot developer highly diluted, so the volume of developer doesn't affect the total temperature significantly. I get the approximately correct volume of water from the cold tap, and add hot water from the kettle to bring it to temperature. Then I mix the developer. The stop and fixer sit in a water bath (less grandly, a washing up bowl of water) until they reach temperature. Obviously I mix the developer after this has happened.

Unlike others, my idea of slapdash is having the temperature half a Fahrenheit degree away from 68 degrees. I have suffered (once) from reticulation, on a film that did matter. Never again.

Temperature affects washing and fixing; there's a discussion near the end of large format photography zero to hero thread (about 3 pages from the end if I recall correctly). I always aim to keep temperatures constant throughout.
 
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Living in the desert, summer tap water is 30°C or more, and then not much above 30°F in the winter, so I'm perhaps a bit more careful than I would be in the UK...

So winter, I use kettle water to bring my mix water up to about 20°C, and in the summer I just the water or the fridge, and kettle again to warm it up!

My stop and fix are stored at room temp, which is consistently 70-80°F.

Colour is a different matter - for that everything goes in to the water bath with a sous vide immersion wand, then when the film is developing, everything except the tank comes out of the water bath do the rest of the chemicals / final wash can drop to their trips before use. Washes before the last contre out of the pre-heated and measured tap (80-100°F recommended, so I measure at 90 then don't move the faucet's handle!)
 
Tom Pinchenzo said:
So I should be storing my chems cooler than room temp? Currently they live in a cupboard in my living room...
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In theory chemical reactions will procede faster at higher temperatures. But realistically, unless you're storing developer in partly empty bottles that aren't airtight (oxidation is the main enemy) or glacial acetic acid (to make your own stop bath) which freezes before water, you won't have a problem.
 
Tom Pinchenzo said:
So I should be storing my chems cooler than room temp? Currently they live in a cupboard in my living room...
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The likelihood is the temp inside the cupboard is a few degrees less than the air temp in the room.
Solutions made up like fixer and stop are probably fine ...... developer , particularly the concentrate ( I typically use hc-110) , I have always kept in a cool place
Perhaps it’s not necessary.
 
StephenM said:
I get the approximarely correct volume of water from the cold tap, and add hot water from the kettle to bring it to temperature. Then I mix the developer. The stop and fixer sit in a water bath (less grandly, a washing up bowl of water) until they reach temperature. Obviously I mix the developer after this has happened.
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This is what I do and given that getting the water for the developer to within half a degree either way really doesn't take much effort or time it seems worth keeping things as consistent as possible.
 
Asha said:
Somewhere near though after all at this time of year it comes out of its storage place with a temp of about 10 Celsius which , not least of all will shock the film emulsion when stop is added .
This can cause a crazy paving effect..... there’s a name for it but I forget what it is for the moment.
Click to expand...

Here's a picture as evidence of the crazy paving effect. The film was very expired FP4+ in 220 format and I had thought it could have been badly stored- but given Asha's description, reticulation seems more likely.
Old Gang Mine, 2017-03, GA645Zi, FP4+, 220, ISO64, RHS D74-DC 17c 5m, 012.jpg
 
And here's mine

Reticulation.jpg
 
Kevin Allan said:
Here's a picture as evidence of the crazy paving effect. The film was very expired FP4+ in 220 format and I had thought it could have been badly stored- but given Asha's description, reticulation seems more likely.
View attachment 302624
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Is that definitely reticulation Kevin? It looks very much like frothy bubbles have dried on the film.
 
If reticulation isn't as far gone as in my photo, it can simply give the impression of extra grain. The crazy paving is in fact an extreme case of the effect.
 
StephenM said:
In theory chemical reactions will procede faster at higher temperatures. But realistically, unless you're storing developer in partly empty bottles that aren't airtight (oxidation is the main enemy) or glacial acetic acid (to make your own stop bath) which freezes before water, you won't have a problem.
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Regarding storage of developer - I use DD-X and keep it in the bottle (1L 1+4) so it gets emptier as I use it. Should I be storing it differently?
 
It's a long time ago but I never found the temp of B&W developer that critical. As long as it was 'near' a normal room tempreature it always worked fine.

Colour was a very different matter though; I found adding hot water to a basin to try and keep the developer at a set temp futile and the only option was to use a thermostatically controlled wate bath; this was 40 years ago though!
 
Tom Pinchenzo said:
Regarding storage of developer - I use DD-X and keep it in the bottle (1L 1+4) so it gets emptier as I use it. Should I be storing it differently?
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I guess it will depend how long it takes you to use it. IIRC it has a shelf life of 3 months once the seal is broken. I tend to use it within that time and have just stored it in the gradually emptying bottle with no issues. I’ve seen some people claim that it lasts much longer than 3 months though.
 
FishyFish said:
I guess it will depend how long it takes you to use it. IIRC it has a shelf life of 3 months once the seal is broken. I tend to use it within that time and have just stored it in the gradually emptying bottle with no issues. I’ve seen some people claim that it lasts much longer than 3 months though.
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I can attest that it does last longer than that as my last bottle I was using for about a year! Whether it was performing the same as it was a the start is a different matter. I images the 3 months is Ilford’s advised timescale for optimal use. Is it worth storing it somewhere cooler and reducing the air gap?
 
Tom Pinchenzo said:
I can attest that it does last longer than that as my last bottle I was using for about a year! Whether it was performing the same as it was a the start is a different matter. I images the 3 months is Ilford’s advised timescale for optimal use. Is it worth storing it somewhere cooler and reducing the air gap?
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Probably. I don't reduce the air gap, but I store my chems in a box in the garage when not in use as it's cool and dark in there (and they won't get on my wife's nerves :)).
 
From the Ilford tech sheet: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/ILFOTEC-DDX-AUG19.pdf
STORAGE
Always store chemicals in their original containers and away from unsupervised children and pets. In cool, dryconditions, 4–20ºC (44–68ºF) ILFOTEC DD-X developer concentrate should keep in good condition for 24 months in full tightly capped bottles. 4 months in half full tightly capped bottles.
WORKING SOLUTION LIFE
ILFOTEC DD-X working strength solutions should not be kept for more than 24 hours. Make up fresh developer each time it is needed and discard it after the processing session.
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Tom Pinchenzo said:
Is it worth storing it somewhere cooler and reducing the air gap?
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It wont harm to do so.

For reducing the air gap, glass marbles work a treat for displacing the liquid and ´pushing’ the air out of the bottle.
Of course they can be re used ;)
 
I used to process colour paper and film which had to be processed at 40° C. At that time Patterson used to sell a water bath and the cylinder containing the print rotated within the water bath to maintain temperature. There were various containers to hold the chemicals which were also maintained at the water bath temperature. The temperature was controlled by a tropical fish tank heater and thermostat and could maintain the temperature plus and minus 1/2° C. This arrangement was so effective that I continued to process at 40° C even when an upgrade of the chemicals allowed lower temperature processing. I recall that I also used the bath for the chemicals when processing film inlcuding B&W. However, by that time, I was using XP1/2 which is a C41 process. These colour chemical did not store well. Once opened the undiluted chemicals would have to be used within 7 days and diluted could not be stored even overnight.

Dave
 
Thanks all - on a slightly unrelated note but to save me from starting another thread! What’s the best way to get rid of water marks on film? I’ve been a cheapskate and haven’t bought any rinsing agent... I’m thinking a wipe with a micro fibre cloth?
 
For b&w I just use the mixer tap and thermometer.
C41 and E6 I have a plastic box I use as a bath with a sous vide, adjusted to the thermometer rather than trust the accuracy of the temperature indicator on the sous vide.
 
I always used rinse aid in the middle and final wash. While a long time ago, I recall that a small container of rinse aid was not that expensive but could last a lifetime as you only need a few drops. Do not be tempted to use washing-up liquid which has various other unwanted elements.

Dave
 
Any recommendations for a wetting/rinsing agent? Ilford’s is £18 which seems steep - Adox adoflo is only £6
 
simon ess said:
I use Kodak Photoflo

www.ag-photographic.co.uk

Kodak Photo-flo 16oz (470ml)

Kodak Photo-flo is the industry standard wetting agent. It's standard practice for many photographers to add a little wetting agent to the final
www.ag-photographic.co.uk www.ag-photographic.co.uk

A bottle lasts a long, long time.
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Couldn’t find photoflo in stock for the price of the link you sent so I got this https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/wetting_solutions/fotospeed_ra50_rinse_aid_500ml/16271_p.html which seems pretty good value and I imagine they all do much the same thing!

Just need to shoot some more B&W now!
 
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