How high of ISO for Portrait

rookies

rookies

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Andrew
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Hi folks

Just learning some proper Portraits this evening and wondering how high of a ISO do people go for indoor portrait to keep the details of the eye and eye lash etc. I am assuming it best to try and keep it below 800? and to use some sort of back light behind me?

I know flash is the way to go but some kind of lighting behind me on to the person would help to keep ISO down? I done some at 2400 and it doesn't contain eye details and lash..
 
How high your ISO can go will depend on a number of factors, type of camera I.e full frame vs smaller sensor, the technology in that sensor, amount of light as less light means more noise, too some extent even how sharp your lens is.
 
A few points to consider:
  • If you're desperate to keep the ISO down indoors, you'll need to add flash, no ifs or buts.
  • Photography is never about the amount of light, though it's a common misconception. We create images by manipulating light, photography is a literal translation of drawing with light.
  • Portraiture isn't about sharp eyelashes, it's about capturing something of your subject. Technical excellence is secondary to your relationship with your subject.
Have a look the the lighting section for starter tips with flash. And just to be picky 'backlight' is light behind the subject not behind the camera. You need to read up on where to place a light for different 'feel' for an image.
 
Just to go back to the last time you asked about continuous lighting, you posted a video where someone used a continuous source.

The point of their video was the use of a £1300 lens and a camera capable of great high ISO shots (£2000)! That'll let you use a <£100 continuous light to get great results.

OTOH, a £200 flash kit will work brilliantly with a £300 lens on a really cheap camera. Which one of those options is actually 'expensive'?
 
Phil V said:
Just to go back to the last time you asked about continuous lighting, you posted a video where someone used a continuous source.

The point of their video was the use of a £1300 lens and a camera capable of great high ISO shots (£2000)! That'll let you use a <£100 continuous light to get great results.

OTOH, a £200 flash kit will work brilliantly with a £300 lens on a really cheap camera. Which one of those options is actually 'expensive'?
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You do have a fair point there pal..

I would love to have a flash but is it best to use it off camera or bounce from camera..
 
rookies said:
You do have a fair point there pal..

I would love to have a flash but is it best to use it off camera or bounce from camera..
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Off camera is much more flexible.

A flash on a pole with a softbox and triggers is less than £200, in photography terms that's cheap as chips. In fact if you're happy to experiment with manual flash, it's less than £100.
 
Phil V said:
Off camera is much more flexible.

A flash on a pole with a softbox and triggers is less than £200, in photography terms that's cheap as chips. In fact if you're happy to experiment with manual flash, it's less than £100.
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If I can get all that for £200 I am all ear.. what would I need for a Nikon dslr then pls
 
Phil V said:
Off camera is much more flexible.

A flash on a pole with a softbox and triggers is less than £200, in photography terms that's cheap as chips. In fact if you're happy to experiment with manual flash, it's less than £100.
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Any recommendations for soft boxes?
 
Speedlight that'll work great on camera, but also work off camera. £80
Triggers will to ETTL or manual £65
Softbox with bracket £25
Lighting pole £15

All in £185.

You might want to buy the trigger set with a TX which is easier to use but puts the budget up about £30.

Or a slightly larger softbox, or one with a grid, up to another £40,

But frankly, bang for buck to create results, better than any 'improved sensor' or superfast lens or upgraded laptop etc.

I'm always amazed what people will spend money on and what they consider 'expensive'.
 
Phil V said:
See above.

Unless you have specific requirements :)
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Any particular makes of softboxes? Will be used for portraits mainly head or half body shots.
Also is a 30 inch reflector large enough for this type of work?
Appreciate you help for us amateurs?
Regards
 
Just to add to Phil's post, if you go godox they're imo better at basically the same cost but trigger is £35 for x1t and ttl receiver is built in to flash already else buy a manual flash for fifty quid instead of the trigger and each flash can also work as a trigger so you can have one flash on camera ttl for bounce fill and a manual off camera for same outlay as one yongnuo with triggers. Godox system also sets you up for adding a wide range of more advanced flashes if needed in the future.

I'm going to get round to selling off all my yongnuo flashes at some point as I've replaced all with godox equivalents which tie in nicely with my ad600 and lencarta heads. I loved my yongnuo flashes when I started but there's too many incompatibilities between each line they have where as the current godox stuff all works seamlessly and is as cheap if not cheaper when you take out the extra triggers. I'd find it hard to recommend them now, not due to the quality but just their system doesn't grow with you in the same way.
 
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Archie747 said:
Any particular makes of softboxes? Will be used for portraits mainly head or half body shots.
Also is a 30 inch reflector large enough for this type of work?
Appreciate you help for us amateurs?
Regards
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There's a link where I listed the softbox.

But I'd really recommend looking for the same design at 80cm with a gtrid, they crop up sometimes.

Reflectors are cheap, start with the biggest you can easily manhandle, or if you're gonna be working alone a lot, think about one of the triangular ones with a handle.

Don't be fooled by the sig, I'm only a PT wedding photographer, I'm an 'amateur' too mostly.
 
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CraigDHD said:
here's links for the godox flashes if you're interested...

Godox TT685N TTL HSS Flash - £90

Godox TT600 Manual HSS Flash - £52

Godox X1T-N TTL HSS Trigger - £35

I notice in your profile page your stated as having a sony A7, all these are available for sony as well. There's an overview of the godox system here.
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Thanks Craig
Whilst I heartily recommend the system, I've got to admit I haven't really done a whole load of reading. Is it true that the 685 has a built in transmitter?
Presumably it has the receiver too.

I could seriously consider a move over to these, I'll crunch the numbers after Christmas.

How much is a barely used Safari2 kit likely to fetch?
 
I tend to pick up used stuff, some great deals of soft boxes out there. Can easily get a decent softbox, off camera flash and some triggers for £200. Cheap and an easy way into taking portraits.
 
@minnnt recommended some cheap ttl speedlights recently which seem pretty good - got two for 60 quid.

I mainly use the studio heads at home but sometimes speedlights are handy.

There's a good book about on camera flash by Neil van niekerk which I found useful and also light science magic.
 
Archie747 said:
Any particular makes of softboxes? Will be used for portraits mainly head or half body shots.
Also is a 30 inch reflector large enough for this type of work?
Appreciate you help for us amateurs?
Regards
Click to expand...

Some of the cheaper softboxes are actually the same, just with different branding. I have this Godox 80cm one but it's pretty much the same as the Neewer softbox that Phil linked to. I find the Godox big enough for portraits and other things. Any bigger and it might not balance well on the light stand.
I'm not sure you'll find a reflector to be as much help as a softbox because it's completely reliant on having a good bright source of light. If you have a big window with loads of daylight flooding in, use that as your main light source and then use a reflector to bounce light onto the subject to reduce shadows. But you are at the mercy of the sun, if it's a dull day, you won't have much light to reflect.
I don't use my reflector as much as my flash, but it's handy to have a reflector to provide some fill light when needed, whether using natural light or flash.

I'll also recommend the Yongnuo YN622 triggers. I picked up a used pair for about £30 and have found them great so far.

Another recommended source of info is the Strobist Lighting 101 course. It's free and covers loads of stuff.
 
the most iconic portrait Photographer of our time Jane Bown used a simple Olympus OM1 and 85mm F2 lens for a vast majority of her famous Portraits for the Observer.
She always used available light. and Tri x film ISO 400 developed in D76. Every thing as simple as could be........
However She was an Artist when it came to portraiture, and had studied photography under Ifor Thomas at the Guilford school of art... the best there was......and so was she....

She never used studio lighting or flash... Just skill.

Technically it would be simple to repeat her work with any midrange Digital camera, with Available light. Just a pity few, if any, can.
 
Phil V said:
Thanks Craig
Whilst I heartily recommend the system, I've got to admit I haven't really done a whole load of reading. Is it true that the 685 has a built in transmitter?
Presumably it has the receiver too.

I could seriously consider a move over to these, I'll crunch the numbers after Christmas.

How much is a barely used Safari2 kit likely to fetch?
Click to expand...

Yeah the 600's and 685's both contain essentially an x1t in them though if you have a 600 on camera it won't pass ttl info, a 685 passes ttl just the same as x1t. It's a god send at weddings as you can setup off camera flashes around the room stick a 685 on camera for bounce and remotely turn on and off all the other flashes as well as it and control power from the on camera flash. I weighed up pros and cons of going all godox for a while after picking up my ad600 as I had an imperfect but working setup using yn-565 and yn-560's but honestly it's the best decision I've ever made. If you've no other godox gear there's not a great difference to warrant a change but if your starting from scratch or already have some of the wistro stuff then it's a no brainer. If you have a safari 2 the godox triggers can fire it as well if you upgrade to the newer 2.4ghz receiver. When I changed I said I'd sell the yongnuo's and I probably will get round to it but they may still come in handy for some things and I don't imagine I'll get much return on them but even without that for me it was so worth it.


***edit***
Just to add is you're buying in fresh it's probably worth considering the V850II and V860II which are the same as the 600 and 685 but have a li-ion battery for longer use and quicker recycles. I already had a tonne of eneloops though so was cheaper and kept what I'm used to by buying the cheaper AA powered flashes.
 
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CraigDHD said:
Yeah the 600's and 685's both contain essentially an x1t in them though if you have a 600 on camera it won't pass ttl info, a 685 passes ttl just the same as x1t. It's a god send at weddings as you can setup off camera flashes around the room stick a 685 on camera for bounce and remotely turn on and off all the other flashes and control power from the on camera flash. I weighed up pros and cons of going all godox for a while after picking up my ad600 as I had an imperfect but working setup using yn-565 and yn-560's but honestly it's the best decision I've ever made. If you've no other godox gear there's not a great difference to warrant a change but if your starting from scratch or already have some of the wistro stuff then it's a no brainer. If you have a safari 2 the godox triggers can fire it as well if you upgrade to the newer 2.4ghz receiver. I did at time and said I'd sell the yongnuo's and I probably will get round to it but they may still come in handy for some things and I don't imagine I'll get much return on them but even without that for me it was so worth it.
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I have an AD180 and a Safari2 both using the old frequency (and a couple of studio heads), but I'm aware I can get new receivers for pennies.
Currently use a mix of Canon and YN flashes with the 622 triggers, but it'd be nice to standardise the triggers :thinking:
It definitely is the best system starting from scratch, but whether it's worth it for me is a bigger question.
 
It really annoyed me that yongnuo never standardised at least the triggering between the 603 and 622 triggers made it a nightmare triggering on camera and off camera at the same time as the 603 didn't pass ttl info through and their ttl flashes couldn't control the 560 manual flashes. When I moved to the d750 you lost the pc port for external triggering that way so you were forced to either buy all ttl flashes at twice the cost when not really needed or bodge elaborate triggering work arounds.

Godox may have their flaws but they have shown they really listen to feedback and they have a system now that covers everything and just works. Only slightly annoying thing is the older non igbt studio heads that work 1.0 to 9.9 instead of 1/128 to 1/1 can't have power controlled at the moment by the x1t, so you need to keep a seperate trigger to control power remotely if you're mixing them in although the triggering can work as said with the new usb receivers so the overall integration is still much cleaner. I've not bothered upgrading my recievers for the smartflashes yet as I can just use my x1t on camera and sit the my older lencarta trigger in it's hotshoe at the moment when I need to use everything.

I'm sure the canon and Nikon own brand flashes are slightly better for cost and ease I'm very happy with Godox. I'm probably derailing the thread a bit now though so I'll wind it in.
 
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I have been taking photo with just available light for a long time, yes you can get good picture with skill but why mess around with high iso. Having to have expensive high ISO capable camera and reduce noise post processing is a pain in the bum, especially when you got a good shot but end up binning it.

I then moved on to flash guns and shoot through umberllas, then flash head with softbox....... Best bang for the buck was flash gun and shoot through umberlla with wireless trigger, for me as a newbie at least.
 
Benson said:
I have been taking photo with just available light for a long time, yes you can get good picture with skill but why mess around with high iso. Having to have expensive high ISO capable camera and reduce noise post processing is a pain in the bum, especially when you got a good shot but end up binning it.

I then moved on to flash guns and shoot through umberllas, then flash head with softbox....... Best bang for the buck was flash gun and shoot through umberlla with wireless trigger, for me as a newbie at least.
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If you can't shot by available light without adding a flash you are shooting them in the wrong light and in the wrong place. Grain or noise is not an issue as you should never need a higher ISO than 400 when shooting portraits , and just about any modern camera can do that. Use of a fold up reflector can certainly be useful. In contrasty light.
 
rookies said:
Hi folks

Just learning some proper Portraits this evening and wondering how high of a ISO do people go for indoor portrait to keep the details of the eye and eye lash etc. I am assuming it best to try and keep it below 800? and to use some sort of back light behind me?

I know flash is the way to go but some kind of lighting behind me on to the person would help to keep ISO down? I done some at 2400 and it doesn't contain eye details and lash..
Click to expand...

rookies mentioned indoor portrait in the evening.....wrong light wrong place may be a given? There may be a chance that there is no light to reflect. Finding a room with enough light to shoot at 400iso may not be the answer here, during the day may be by the window or doorway.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
If you can't shot by available light without adding a flash you are shooting them in the wrong light and in the wrong place. Grain or noise is not an issue as you should never need a higher ISO than 400 when shooting portraits , and just about any modern camera can do that. Use of a fold up reflector can certainly be useful. In contrasty light.
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:D:D
 
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