How I Move to the next level?

Tommy12317

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Name
Thomas West
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Hi all,
I am an amateur (wannabe pro) football photographer!
I am looking for as much advice as possible on the discussion topic?
How do I get my name out there
How do I start getting paid
Any advice bearing in mind I use a wheelchair
Best ways to make a living
Best camera's to buy?
Anything you can think of please post it?
Many Thanks
 
Hi all,
I am an amateur (wannabe pro) football photographer!

Do I take it by pro you mean you want to do this for a living? If so then limiting yourself to just football is going to make it extermely hard.. i dont know anyone that is a pro football photographer.. I am pro sports but I cover a lot of sports.. just back from schools crown green bowling :)

In order to make a living I wouldnt bother with league or premiership (many reasons not least accesibility for a wheelchair pichside) .. i would suggest do junior local football and sell pics to parent.. .you will amke more but still; not enough for full time just doing football..

or did you eman somethign else by pro ?
 
I can do other photography such as modelling but yes I would like to make as much as possible photographing football
 
I can do other photography such as modelling but yes I would like to make as much as possible photographing football


Then theres your answer.. to make as much as possible shooting football.... do junior local football and sell to parents... ....
 
stick in at school get good grades go to university and get a well paid job with pension also private health care

join a camera club and take it from there
 
stick in at school get good grades


I answered not knowing the age..didnt know you could until now.....so yeagh.. agree with you :)
 
looked at profile it says 17yrs


yeagh i didnt know it showed age.. i could tell you knew so i looked at profile to see if it showed and it did :)

ps doesnt on ours..
 
It stops showing the age after a certain figure...

To the young lad, I would say get out there and shoot anything that moves. Get it wrong, learn why you got it wrong to get it right the next time. The top photographers can make anything look awesome.

My colleague Stephen has just celebrated his 10th anniversary at Sportsfile (I've only been here two years) which means he joined when he was about 18. He has photographed everything going. Tried his hand at it all. He's the best sports AND PR photographer at the company. And it's the PR that brings in the bucks.

Don't limit yourself. When I first started I was thrown in at the deep end at a rugby match... I knew nothing about rugby. But now I love it and love shooting it. And I love the challenge of something new. Research Bog Snorkelling at the moment...
 
Hi,
I just wanted to update the situation by saying I sorted out all my insurances through PolicyBee (Hiscox) yesterday therefore I am now fully insured for my photography. As it is pre-season time I'm trying to get pitchside for as many games as possible. The game I wanted to cover tonight already has too many press but I could be covering a game on Sunday
Many thanks for your advice
 
Hi. Have you thought 'out of the box' and maybe drone/aerial photography. That's something you can do without having to necessarily access awkward stadiums or rough terrain. Seems a way to the future.
 
Post up some images that you have done so far over in the photos section, the feedback may help you find what sells?
 
Hi all,
I am an amateur (wannabe pro) football photographer!
I am looking for as much advice as possible on the discussion topic?
How do I get my name out there
How do I start getting paid
Any advice bearing in mind I use a wheelchair
Best ways to make a living
Best camera's to buy?
Anything you can think of please post it?
Many Thanks
I am now Charlton Athletic U18 Photographer. I am covering CAFC vs DRFC 1st team League One game on 14th October for NewsShopper. Followed by 16th CAFC U23 vs QPR U23 again at the Valley and am soon to become DataCO accredited. At 17 I feel this is a great achievement!
 
I am now Charlton Athletic U18 Photographer. I am covering CAFC vs DRFC 1st team League One game on 14th October for NewsShopper. Followed by 16th CAFC U23 vs QPR U23 again at the Valley and am soon to become DataCO accredited. At 17 I feel this is a great achievement!

How are you becoming dataco accredited? Are you selling your photos of the Charlton U18's to the local paper or something? Do they count towards applying for dataco?
 
I suspect that he means that Charlton have added him to their licence, rather than him being issued his own.
 
Hi all,
enjoying my work at the moment, yes its for free but for games where I'm not working for the newspaper i watermark and charge small amounts for the high res copies! I've got Fulham vs Millwall on Saturday. As I cover all Charlton U18s games. The only place that has been funny about having me pitch side (I use a wheelchair) was Exeter City but being honest quite frankly their pitch for the EFL was embarrassing. Even thought its the 21st century, its really pleasing how accepting everyone has been. The plan is to start working for other newspapers (possibly paid) towards the back end of the season. Prepare myself a professional portfolio and full understanding of Photomechanic ready to apply to agencies for next season. Getting a logo and website together for 2018. Currently on 5dmk2 + 70-200mm 2.8 Is Mk1. Hopefully getting a second body with 100-400 or 300mm prime ready for next season but at the moment, everything is going well! Anyone wants to see my work it's on Instagram TomWestPhotography. To answer a question, I get my licensing either through Charlton or the newspaper, probably will never end up with my own Dataco!
Cheers
 
Hi all,
enjoying my work at the moment, yes its for free but for games where I'm not working for the newspaper i watermark and charge small amounts for the high res copies! I've got Fulham vs Millwall on Saturday. As I cover all Charlton U18s games. The only place that has been funny about having me pitch side (I use a wheelchair) was Exeter City but being honest quite frankly their pitch for the EFL was embarrassing. Even thought its the 21st century, its really pleasing how accepting everyone has been. The plan is to start working for other newspapers (possibly paid) towards the back end of the season. Prepare myself a professional portfolio and full understanding of Photomechanic ready to apply to agencies for next season. Getting a logo and website together for 2018. Currently on 5dmk2 + 70-200mm 2.8 Is Mk1. Hopefully getting a second body with 100-400 or 300mm prime ready for next season but at the moment, everything is going well! Anyone wants to see my work it's on Instagram TomWestPhotography. To answer a question, I get my licensing either through Charlton or the newspaper, probably will never end up with my own Dataco!
Cheers


your workign for newspapers for free.... thats pretty bad.. whats even worse is coming in here telling everyone :( :( :(
 
I'm only 17 for a start and as only 1% of photographers can make a decent living, it's probably not what I'll be doing for a career. I get into matches free, possibly meet players and gain amazing experiences. `for my current situation, its what suits me but definitely wouldn't suit you I understand that, We all have different motivations.
 
I'm only 17 for a start and as only 1% of photographers can make a decent living, it's probably not what I'll be doing for a career. I get into matches free, possibly meet players and gain amazing experiences. `for my current situation, its what suits me but definitely wouldn't suit you I understand that, We all have different motivations.


Not quite what he meant I'm afraid.

And at 17 you probably won't realize the implications either.
 
I'm only 17 for a start and as only 1% of photographers can make a decent living, it's probably not what I'll be doing for a career. I get into matches free, possibly meet players and gain amazing experiences. `for my current situation, its what suits me but definitely wouldn't suit you I understand that, We all have different motivations.
For example the other week I got to go to Cobham, usually a bio access area to photograph a Chelsea vs Charlton friendly. Next Sunday I'm doing the 1st team FA Cup game at AFC Wimbledon. As a massive Charlton fan, this is all I need at the moment!
 
I'm only 17 for a start

sorry but what difference does that make ??

and as only 1% of photographers can make a decent living, it's probably not what I'll be doing for a career. I get into matches free, possibly meet players and gain amazing experiences. `for my current situation, its what suits me but definitely wouldn't suit you I understand that, We all have different motivations.

you changed your tune in 5 minutes.. when you said you want to work for other papers and work for an agency.. and now you dont want it as a career..

plus your missing the whole point/... you may be having a great time and getting into games for free.. but your giving pics to newpapers for free when they should be paying someone who is trying to make a living.. not someone who is just having fun :(
 
17 and in a wheel chair, then fair play for giving it a go. Some of the pro's will now speak to you about giving your images away for free, although I realise that this was a way for you to get 'in', it devalues those who are trying to make a living
 
Implications of what exactly?

You started this thread about going to the next level.. you also mention wanting to work for an agency..

what you dont realise is that by giving free pics to papers.. you are harming agencies and other photogrpahers making a living.. these people will end up hating and shunning you.they wont be offering you paid work .... believe me they will all be against you...

its nobodies business to tell you what you can or cant do with your pictures and if you want to carry on giving them away for free then thats your choice

BUT PLEASE DONT COME IN HERE SHOWING OFF ABOUT IT :(
 
I have been misunderstood. If the money is there then it will be my career but most posts on this section on the forum about the lack of money about. Everyone is trying to make a living, I will if I can. I hope I can make a living out of it, If I can't then I'm happy. There's much better photographers than me doing very well. You can't work with what you don't have. I go to college to study photography 3 days a week, professionalism is suffering I can't currently pursue.
 
In no way was I showing off, I'm just proud due to my young age, maybe I shouldn't be proud then. Nobody can start off on Day 1 working for Getty etc. so I'm young and doing what I can and plus definitely not here for an argument.
 
I have been misunderstood. If the money is there then it will be my career but most posts on this section on the forum about the lack of money about..

OMG! because of people like you giving them away for free.. ..I know your only 17... but surely the penny has to drop at some point ? :(

I will say no more.. you either get it or you dont.. best of luck with your sports photogrpahy.. thats a different subject :)
 
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Looking beyond the football for additional income, I used to shoot sunday morning youth football and rugby. That paid reasonably well, but I used the money to help run the team I supported and my son was in. It meant I sold the images to the parents through my web site, full res image, all rights to do as they wished with the image but I kept copyright.
The other place to look is a local events company. You can be shooting youth sports tournaments, races (road running, cycle races, local triathlons etc). It's not huge pay for a days work but is additional income. The plus for this is usually you've no editing, just shoot and hand over the cards for someone to process on site in the van to sell prints to the punters. Can be long, tiring days though.
 
How do I win with you? Start charging ? I'm not winning this argument which I did't come here for.
 
How do I win with you? Start charging ? I'm not winning this argument which I did't come here for.
Nope - just understand that when people give away images for free, it devalues the market and makes it harder for those trying to make a living.
There is a market for those images, but if they can get a reasonable image for free instead of a great image for money, guess which one they go for a lot of the time.

As you're studying photography, perhaps this is a subject you could bring up for discussion, if photographers and photos are valued in todays marketplace. You've only got to look at all the media "do you know this person, have images to share...". Even BBC weather has free images in the background given to them for the photographers 30 secs of fame.
Then actually look at the market place for the images. Printed magazines and papers are reducing in circulation, with more content on the internet. You'll know about the issues this brings with the need to distribute the images very quickly. The need for the images is still there, but the sources they come from now have very much changed, especially with everyone carrying a camera around on their phone (and being obsessed with taking images/footage being on it all the time).

As someone hoping to make a living from this, it's something that needs considering
 
Hi all,
enjoying my work at the moment, yes its for free

You're not actually working for pay? So someone is making a mug out of you for their own financial gain (i.e. the newspaper)? Unfortunately, because of what you're doing (along with thousands of other weekend warriors) in "working" for free for these newspapers you're, in essence, depriving yourself of being paid for your images!

Had a cheeky local newspaper ask me for images last weekend. Quick bit of background - I had contact from them at the beginning of the season asking if they could use my images. I said of course they can but they have to pay for them. Then came the usual reply "We have no budget for purchasing pictures blah, blah, blah". So I said no pay, no pics. I said to him if they were willing to put an advert for my business (I run a cleaning business) in the newspaper every week, then I could supply an image or 2 each game. Didn't hear anything else from them. As it turns out, they now get images from a weekend warrior if they can. Crap picture for free is better than a decent picture that's been paid for, in their eyes. Back to this weekend - they contacted me asking if I had any pics I could send over as the usual guy hasn't been supplying them the last couple of games. Quote - "I don't suppose there's any chance we could use a pic of yours while *** is out of action is there? Still can't offer any money, sorry."

I replied, mentioning that I didn't get a response about the possibility of publishing my advert each week in the paper. I get back "It's a good idea but unfortunately for us, it's the same as paying you. The only thing that keeps a free paper like ours afloat is advertising revenue."

So of course I send a reply asking how they can have the cheek to ask me for something for free, that I normally charge for, but they're not willing to provide exactly the same thing in return, something for free that they usually charge for! What's the difference??

So, they'll be using crappy mobile phone shots taken from the sidelines for a while! :D
 
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Erm, how the fv<k can you not see the screaming irony in you berating someone else for being a 'weekend warrior'?
 
....does this take the discussion full circle back to KIPAX points and advice in post #2?

are the commercial aspects not covered in photo courses? @Tommy12317 good luck and tried not to get carried away in the excitement, do think how this is going to lead to a living for you and others around you.
 
:banghead: oh **** how many times!!, I've just had a da ja vu from 5 no 4 no 3, 2, 1 ...... years ago!!.

Lets set this to bed for once & for all.

ANYONE who gives images away to the professional press for free is a Knob head if they intend to create a career in the industry agreed?

ANYONE who provides images for free to the professional press for glory is also a Knob head agreed?

BOTH these scenarios harm the profession of pro sports shooters agreed?

solution is what?,

We on this forum will always have the "glory hunters", (it's a big achievement to a lot of people), the wanabee Bob Martins, (I hope we have a few future greats on here) etc.

We all start somewhere some to our cost others to "wow where did he come from".

I'm now a semi retired Sports photographer who unlike Tony,(maybe I was born in the wrong location lol), no longer sustains a full time photographers salary ( I still have 5-10 Regional Images and 2+ National images used on a regular basis)

Does that in the eyes of the "pro" snappers make me a "Weekend Warrior" ?

Let's in future not rise to the bate of "whooo I've had an image used by "blogs free paper" (you wouldn't have had an image used there anyway as they don't pay!!).

instead why not nip over to the sports picture gallery & add constructive advise there to the up & coming photographers?. Kind regards Graham.
 
I know iam a grumpy old man and like graham at the wrong end of the age scale but why is it that most threads go off on tangents
Don't agree with giving pics away but as graham points out over time most people will have done so as long as a lesson is leaned.
Rant over
 
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