How long do black and white chemicals last once you start using them ?

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Hello All,

I'm about to start my own black and white processing and was at first going to use monobath (for ease of use) but then realized I would have to take approx 15 films first then process over a period of 2 weeks max to get the value from it. As this would take 6 months plus for me I would prefer to be able to shoot a roll process a roll ! My question is do the standard processing chemicals last over time once you have started using them being able to process a certain number of films irregardless of time (within reason of course) ?

Thanks all

Ps I'm using 35mm Kentmere 400
 
I suspect they are all different.

One of the main reasons I always recommend Kodak HC 110 is that, after opening, it still lasts years....literally.
 
Chemicals that get reused are likely to have a limited shelf life and, in general, working solution doesn't last as long as concentrate. Stuff that gets made up fresh each time and discarded after one film is more likely to stay good. I can vouch for HC-110 lasting years once opened (I had to wipe a little bit of brown, oxidised sludge from the neck of my bottle after it had been unused for about 4 years, and it still works perfectly). Undiluted fixer seems to go off after a while - maybe two years or so. Can't really say if my several years old bottle of stop bath is still neutralising the developer, but it isn't minging. The wetting agent seems fine - never get any drying marks or the like (and never squeegee films).
 
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I've been impressed with Simon's results from using HC110, but it's quite expensive at £35 for a litre and I haven't seen a smaller bottle. Rodinal lasts forever as well, but can be a bit too grainy for 35mm. You can get a small 120ml bottle for about £8.49 delivered off eBay to try it out, so less of an outlay to see if it suits you. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Agfa-Rod...825773&hash=item33da1158df:g:IbEAAOSw32lYpwbe

There are a few comparisons on the web, and I've linked the search here. https://www.google.co.uk/search?cli...qP3XAhXQJuwKHVivB2IQ1QIIdigB&biw=1680&bih=938
 
I've been impressed with Simon's results from using HC110, but it's quite expensive at £35 for a litre

Thanks Peter.

I did all the sums on this years ago but can't be bothered to do it again.

In short - Solution B = 56p per dev. And, given that I average maybe 1 to 2 rolls per month, the long shelf life means I have never thrown any away.
 
Thanks Peter.

I did all the sums on this years ago but can't be bothered to do it again.

In short - Solution B = 56p per dev. And, given that I average maybe 1 to 2 rolls per month, the long shelf life means I have never thrown any away.

I didn't mean it was expensive to use, only that it was quite expensive to try out to see if Brad likes it. I'd certainly try it if it was about £10 for a smaller amount, but I've just started a bottle of genuine Rodinal which must be at least 10 years old, and I've been happy with it on semi-stand for ood film.
 
I didn't mean it was expensive to use, only that it was quite expensive to try out to see if Brad likes it. I'd certainly try it if it was about £10 for a smaller amount, but I've just started a bottle of genuine Rodinal which must be at least 10 years old, and I've been happy with it on semi-stand for ood film.

I too balked at the up-front cost of HC110 for a trial. I bought some more Ilfosol 3, another "one-shot" developer in liquid form. I'm quite happy with it, I think I haven't quite finished my 2nd bottle after 3 years. Just add marbles as you use it up to keep the air out.

I've never used Rodinal, but there are comments on here about how long-lasting the "proper" Agfa Rodinal was, but that newer derivatives such as R09 can go from fine to dead in the blink of a shutter (or something). But someone who knows will tell you truer.

My Ilford Rapid Fixer seems to last very well. Once it gets over 6 months old I start to do more clip tests, but its never failed yet.
 
gawd, I have bottles of HC110 I keep for "emergency"

never gonna use em, if it wasn't so heavy I'd give it all away :/
 
I use HC-110 at 1+49, mainly because it's easy to calculate - divide by 100 and double the result. So, for 300ml, get to 3, and then 6ml. That's good for 166 rolls of 35mm from a litre, which works out at 21p per roll. I add about 50% to the dev time. It should probably be called Dilution L (L=50 in Roman numerals), but I prefer to call it Dilution X.

Can't say I was fussed about doing trials other than basically checking that it works. My reasoning was that if it lasts years in an opened bottle and is good enough for St Ansel, it'll do me.
 
Having a look elsewhere on this topic, there is a 2017 thread on the price of HC110 on APUG. One of the posts suggests that Kodak HC110 and Ilford Ilfotec HC are made in the same factory, while another post says that they are actually made by Tetenal in Germany? I guess there may be economies there for both Kodak and Ilford, but I suppose it is a shrinking market and it possibly keeps the prices down.
Having checked out the MSDS for both, there are strong similarities, but also differences.

Ilfotec HC


31-35% DIETHANOLAMINE (111-42-2)

10-30% 2,2'-OXYBISETHANOL (111-46-6)

10-30% Diethanolamine bisulphite (63149-47-3)

5-10% HYDROQUINONE (123-31-9)

1-5% Diethanolamine Hydrobromide (28129-21-7)

1-5% Diethylenetriamine Pentaacetic Acid Na5 (140-01-2)

<1% 1-Phenyl-4-methyl-3-pyrazolidone (2654-57-1)

Kodak HC110


Components - (CAS-No.)

30 - 35 Diethanolamine (111-42-2)

15 - 20 Sulphur dioxide (7446-09-5)

5 - 10 Hydroquinone (123-31-9)

5 - 10 Diethylene glycol (111-46-6)

5 - 10 Ethanolamine (141-43-5)

1 - 5 Diethylenetriaminepentaacetic acid (67-43-6)

1 - < 5 Potassium bromide (7758-02-3)

0.1 - < 1 1,2-Benzenediol (120-80-9)

0.1 - < 1 Ethylene glycol (107-21-1)

0.1 - < 1 3-Pyrazolidinone, 4-methyl-1-phenyl- (2654-57-1)
 
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Well I thought I'd do a dev comparison tonight, I had 5 rolls of 400TX to soup so I decided to go with Tanol, HC110, Rodinal and Xtol just for a bit of fun, get the grain measurers out of bed..:)
Anyway, it started ok with the Tanol, good stiff contrasty negs but it all went wrong with the HC, thin as hell they were, unusable.
Saw my arse after that and ditched the ugliest brown bottle of Rodinal you've ever seen in favour of Xtol, which, as usual, produced perfect negs.
So I've got 4 rolls drying, 1 souped in Tanol which seems to have a proper sticky back and is also curling like a bugger, it'll be perfect for catching flies in the summer if it stays like that, and 3 in Xtol.
I'm just balled off with the HC, it was only one roll but I know what was on it and I'm just not gonna chance it anymore, I have absolutely no reason to faff about with anything other than Xtol, in fact Kodak film can take a running jump too..:hungover:
 
And there's me just punted £30-odd to get a bottle to try it out :eek::eek::eek:

You'll be fine. I guarantee it.

I will buy it from you at cost if you don't like it.

You pay post of course. If you don't like it, you have clearly done something wrong and must pay something for your mistakes.

:)
 
I should be fined for my mistake.

.......and flogged

well.....maybe not flogged.....unless the fine is also payment for the....erm... flogging

:cautious:

umm

How much do I owe..:)
 
You'll be fine. I guarantee it.

I will buy it from you at cost if you don't like it.

You pay post of course. If you don't like it, you have clearly done something wrong and must pay something for your mistakes.

:)
No problem Simon, I'm sure it will be fine. (y)
The pricing of it is fairly bizarre with Ag Photgraphic selling it on their website for £35.90 + £7.98 post, total £43.88, yet they also sell it on eBay at £51.98 inc post, so that's £8 for their fees. o_O
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KODAK-HC...127202&hash=item282df357b5:g:Fx8AAOSwXYtYwslI
 
Thanks for all theinput everyone, much appreciated.
 
What dilution and time did you use?
Soon as I saw them I knew what had happened.
It was supposed to be B @ 7.5 mins, I made stock @ 1:31 and then from that working @ 1:7 like an idjut, which is obviously wrong and can only be remedied by -
A. Stock @ 1:3 and working @ 1:7
B. Working from concentrate @ 1:31
C. Accepting the flogging (with glee) and throwing the HC in the "too complicated" bin..:)

opts for "C"

Although, if any of these chems were complicated, it was Tanol since MDC only give times for 400TX shot at 200-250, not the box speed I shot it at.
Still, I found an hour long stand 3:3:100 on the interwebs so I used that, the negs look pretty good, still to be proved though..:)
 
Well I've just devved a roll of FP4 with my old bottle of brown-looking Ilfosol 3, and a roll of Tri-X in my clear new Ilfosol 3. FP4 negs look pale and low contrast, Tri-X looks fine. Thrown out the old bottle!

I started devving in May 2015, and that was my second bottle (AFAICR), so that's about 15 months per bottle. Used the marbles trick to keep the air out, but it was getting below the topmost marble!
 
What tends to age chemicals is oxygen and warmth. Keep in the fridge to make them last longer. You used to be able to get concertina collapsible bottles which you could keep collapsing to reduce the amount of air on top as you used up the solution. That helped shelf life too. So glad I learnt how to process images digitally :)
 
What tends to age chemicals is oxygen and warmth. Keep in the fridge to make them last longer. You used to be able to get concertina collapsible bottles which you could keep collapsing to reduce the amount of air on top as you used up the solution. That helped shelf life too. So glad I learnt how to process images digitally :)

Yes, putting marbles in as the level drops is a substitute for the collapsing bottle. I keep my chems under the stairs where it's fairly cold. Of course, you don't want them too cold as you have to get them up to 20C (or higher) to use!
 
Soon as I saw them I knew what had happened.
It was supposed to be B @ 7.5 mins, I made stock @ 1:31 and then from that working @ 1:7 like an idjut, which is obviously wrong ...

Aye, that could affect development somewhat. I always mix it from concentrate. I have some decanted into a small bottle, and use a syringe to extract the amount I need, then squirt that into the mixing container before adding water. The small bottle allows the syringe to reach the syrup, and I top it up every few films.
 
Well I've just devved a roll of FP4 with my old bottle of brown-looking Ilfosol 3, and a roll of Tri-X in my clear new Ilfosol 3. FP4 negs look pale and low contrast, Tri-X looks fine. Thrown out the old bottle!

I started devving in May 2015, and that was my second bottle (AFAICR), so that's about 15 months per bottle. Used the marbles trick to keep the air out, but it was getting below the topmost marble!

Just checked the dates of some B&W scans, and it looks like my bottle of HC-110 is over seven years old. The last roll (expired Tri-X) was nice and dense after 9 minutes at 1+49. No effort made to keep it cool or anything.
 
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