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How many photography students?
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That is quite a lot...but how many end up doing it as a career? Very few I should imagine! Speaking to fellow and more established pro's, they have a certain disdain for photography graduates...apparently they know a lot of theory but bugger all about actually using the camera 
Might be just the local collages mind you, they're not known to be the best!
Might be just the local collages mind you, they're not known to be the best!
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they have a certain disdain for anyone wielding a camera!
hah yeah I can vouch for that. cant wait to be rid of the place. Uni here I come!
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they have a certain disdain for anyone wielding a camera!
hah yeah I can vouch for that. cant wait to be rid of the place. Uni here I come!
True
My uni was awful...3D Design at Salford...software 5 versions out of date, a network worthy of 1992...guess when I graduated I'm one of them, just studying the second year of an A Level but I want to take it further and make a career out of it eventually. At the start of the first year of my class we had 25-30 pupils, come the start of the second year we had 8, now there are only 6 of us, the rest of the class all with no real interest in doing any kind of paid photography, I'm the only one aside the teacher who has done freelance work and sold prints etc in the class.
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ive just done the A-level too, I don't intend to go into photography as a job (unless all else fails lol ) But I know tonnes of people who do it, along with a few teachers, and most of the students who do it, do it for the "coolness" of the subject, or are arty in general and do it alongside their faveourite subject (usually art) and they go on to art school, but not photography. Basically, they go into "related" subjects (Film, Art, Design, Graphics) but not many stay on! I wish I did :-(...
) But I know tonnes of people who do it, along with a few teachers, and most of the students who do it, do it for the "coolness" of the subject, or are arty in general and do it alongside their faveourite subject (usually art) and they go on to art school, but not photography. Basically, they go into "related" subjects (Film, Art, Design, Graphics) but not many stay on! I wish I did :-(...ive just done the A-level too, I don't intend to go into photography as a job (unless all else fails lol
See thats the funny thing, I'm the least arty person on this planet
Call is coincidence, but I'm the only bloke in the class (suprisingly, this is a bad thing at times, women get bitches as hell about each other...) and I'm quite business minded about anything that can make me money that I enjoy doing. The most the others seem to do it myspace photos of the selves or arty things to do with teenage life. I bet I sound like a cocky ******* there, but thats how it is 
it can be pretty hard to make it pro I agree, what I think the up and coming photographers need to keep in mind is that they need to bring something new to the table. If you want to come out and charge big prices for run of the mill cookie cutter images then you are wasting your time. You need to think outside the box...do something controversial and punchy, bring your own style and flavour. I think a mix between an arty person who has sound technical knowledge can really make it. Not that I want lots of newbies stealing my jobs, but i would like to think that photography won't one day become obsolete...
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i am currently doing a city and guilds studio photography course.
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I'm doing photography at college, but a lot of kids in my class (I would say 19 out of 22) don't really have an interest in photography. They do it because they thought 'oh, yeah, photography will be a doss'. Having said that I think one or two of them are doing a photography degree.
They don't even know what aperture is, nor how it affects a photograph.
:shake:
They don't even know what aperture is, nor how it affects a photograph.
:shake:
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Over the last 4 years I have had 5 students work part time for me. Only 2 of the 5 had any clue of what Aperture is or how it is controlled. They had no idea that you can control your shutter speed by changing F. stops.
I went along to their final exhibitions. The vast majority of submissions were average. If it wasn't for the accompanying script then I would have not had a clue. Seems to me that if you can take a photo write some pretentious rubbish you'll do ok.
I go along with the old saying
There are photos that tell, and there are photos that sell.
Messiah Khan
Santa is your dad
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I work at a uni as a photo tech, so I get the best of both worlds... I get paid for being here, and I get to learn as I go along. Might also do a research masters in photography at some point.
That is quite a lot...but how many end up doing it as a career? Very few I should imagine! Speaking to fellow and more established pro's, they have a certain disdain for photography graduates...apparently they know a lot of theory but bugger all about actually using the camera
Might be just the local collages mind you, they're not known to be the best!
Umm, I think they need to revisit their mindset then
I'm at Uni for a professional photography degree, after completing C&G in the mid 90's. My group at Uni started off with about 15 students we are now down to 6 (cos it ain't easy!) The students still on the course are all experienced and 3 have had their own businesses for some years. After a year and a half in my class theres still a couple who dont know what an f/stop is, its shocking.
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I started a photography degree at uni in october 08 and left by mid december.. there were 60 students at the beginning, so there was really no 1-to-1 time with your tutor apart from allocated 'sessions' every 3 months or so, and to be honest, I didn't learn a thing about my camera.. what I did learn however was how to produce endless powerpoint presentations to the class.. and how to read an image, which I'd learnt in my 3 years studying prior to applying for uni. In the nearly 3 months I went out with my camera once..
I hear the other week they were taught how to drag and drop files on a mac..
Everyone seemed a bit disappointed in me for leaving, but to be honest, I think it was the best thing I could've done!
I hear the other week they were taught how to drag and drop files on a mac..
Everyone seemed a bit disappointed in me for leaving, but to be honest, I think it was the best thing I could've done!
What course were you studying at Uni?
We have plenty of crit and 1-2-1 time, each assignment contains a body of images and you are expected to push your boundaries. With it being a small group we are a stong supportive punch which is great.
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Shocking isn't it.
My girlfriend is doing far better than me in photography because she is writing a lot of pretentious rubbish and making her book look pretty.
My photos are technically, compositionally and contextually superior in almost every way, but who cares?
There's only so much crap I can spout, and clearly it's not enough.
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Don't blame the University for the lack of technical knowledge.
And don't blame the University for producing theory based photographers. That's what going to Uni is for, for putting some ideas behind your work, and doing so in a manner that doesn't constitute shallowness and lack of insight.
Our University is very technical based, with a very in depth theory aspect that is hard to keep up with.
The only thing is, the fundementals are lost. The film side isn't important anymore in industry.
But in my opinion, the process of film, the enjoyment of using it, and printing it, are paramount to the photographic field, and without that as a base of your knowledge, you're....kinda missing out.
Which is why I had to teach myself.
But yeah, it's a per student basis - the Uni's will offer as much or as little as you wish to take from them, so the idea that the most competent and strong will rise to the top rings very, very true.
And don't blame the University for producing theory based photographers. That's what going to Uni is for, for putting some ideas behind your work, and doing so in a manner that doesn't constitute shallowness and lack of insight.
Our University is very technical based, with a very in depth theory aspect that is hard to keep up with.
The only thing is, the fundementals are lost. The film side isn't important anymore in industry.
But in my opinion, the process of film, the enjoyment of using it, and printing it, are paramount to the photographic field, and without that as a base of your knowledge, you're....kinda missing out.
Which is why I had to teach myself.
But yeah, it's a per student basis - the Uni's will offer as much or as little as you wish to take from them, so the idea that the most competent and strong will rise to the top rings very, very true.
Very well put.We covered film in the first year and it is always an option for any of the students to continue with film, interestingly not one of them does. At the time I did C&G it was all film, a real pleasure. Digital is a different kettle of fish, still very enjoyable but makes you lazy :shake:
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What are the benefits to taking a course over buying a book or searching the googles?
I was always crap at art, because I can't draw and I never took any time writing that pretentious rubbish about what my picture of a rocket 'means'. Therefore, I avoided all art based courses like the plague, so I am wondering if I am missing out on anything good. My guess would be that photography students get access to a studio, and rental of cameras/lenses, is that the case?
I was always crap at art, because I can't draw and I never took any time writing that pretentious rubbish about what my picture of a rocket 'means'. Therefore, I avoided all art based courses like the plague, so I am wondering if I am missing out on anything good. My guess would be that photography students get access to a studio, and rental of cameras/lenses, is that the case?
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You see, you call it pretentious, but that's based on the fact that you believe a picture of a rocket is just a picture of a rocket.
Should the picture you took simply be that, then sure - writing nonesense about it to give it a higher status than it should have = pretentious.
But the idea is to study what you want to photograph, why you want to photograph it, its importance to you - the key aspects of it that you feel are significant enough to photograph and then to actually take the picture.
Having that basis to your photography allows you to explain your work. Pretentious? Don't insult us.
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What course were you studying at Uni?
We have plenty of crit and 1-2-1 time, each assignment contains a body of images and you are expected to push your boundaries. With it being a small group we are a stong supportive punch which is great.
It was a photography BA, If the group was smaller then it would have been different, but I just wasn't getting on with it so it seemed best I leave! I might return to another uni in a few years time, but for now I think it's best I go it alone
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I agree with about 90% of this.
This bit is important to you:
My first year teacher annoyed me, and nothing clicked.
I was much like Tim - why does my picture of a rocket have to mean anything?
My second year teacher, one of those people that influence you in life.
He said, every photograph means something to the photographer. You took it for a reason, be it to get across a point about poverty, or because you saw something that interested you, or left you in awe.
As Ansel Adams said, there's nothing worse than a brilliant image of a fuzzy concept.
First year AS photography meant nothing to me.
Second year A2 photography has been the most interesting, encapturing and meaningful courses that I've ever done.
Now, for that 10% that I don't agree with.
I blame the universities/colleges for the lack of technical knowledge.
In my college, it's pretty much 95% theory taught. You're taught the darkroom processes because you need them otherwise you're lost. As far as exposure goes, you're left in the lurch. You don't understand why things work or how they work.
I believe you need to teach it. At least 20%.
Show the people how to use their camera before you ask them to use it.
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I apologise for insulting you, that was not my intention.
My art was never more than drawings which meant nothing to me, and having to explain the thought behind a still life did seem pretentious to me, I did not mean to brand all art and all photography with that basic level of meaning.
I don't think about a shot in terms of feelings, maybe I should, but I'm not going to take a shot and then ascribe emotion on to it just to fit in with those who do. If you can take a photo, have it mean something to you and be able to express that then good for you, I have no issue with that whatsoever.
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The thing I don't get is what reaction do you have that evokes you to take a photograph?
What stops you from taking pictures of literally everything, and makes you decide how to compose a shot?
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I suppose I'm taking for granted the seminar sessions we had when we first started the year (I did this twice at two seperate Uni's).
In both we were taught the basics of the camera and in the University I am at now, we were given the task of doing independant research on the history of photography.
I think the key word is independent. I also think that anyone going to University to study Photography should know the basics of the damned subject instead of thinking you'll get that spoon fed to you. It's a degree course. If you don't understand these basic elements of photography, get a book, or do an A level.
I suppose I come across a little harsh, but I find it insulting that people don't know these basic things and expect a degree course to teach them.
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I have to say, a lot of people are annoyed (thats the wrong word, but I'm dyslexic ) that its "arty" The thing you have to remember is that the Photography A-level is actually an Art A-level with (and i'm quoting them here) a "specification in photography" which basically means that you are looking at it from an Artist's perspective, not necessarily a good technical one.
Having said that, there were people on my course who had terrible photographs and excellent write-ups and therefore got a B instead of a D/C! Not really fair I would say!
We didn't get taught anything incredibly technical, but our avant-guard german pirate-lookalike who only wore black and listened to Baroque classical music (sorry, ive gone on a bit ) Did teach us all the basics and "theories/ideas" of photography, and all about the dark room etc enough know-how to get by, but he said that its more of a "personal" A-level and your expected to develop your own style, so thats the reason for lack-of-knowledge being taught technically. Though I got fed up with that and got him to teach me out of class (seeing I was the only one interested, the rest did it because they thought it would be easy/they where arty).
It also doesn't help if you only have ASA 400 film, which isn't great if you need to do a range of stuff. which we did.
[edit]
Oh god! ive written a mini-essay, sorry! I won't hold it against anyone who doesn't bother reading it lol
) that its "arty" The thing you have to remember is that the Photography A-level is actually an Art A-level with (and i'm quoting them here) a "specification in photography" which basically means that you are looking at it from an Artist's perspective, not necessarily a good technical one.Having said that, there were people on my course who had terrible photographs and excellent write-ups and therefore got a B instead of a D/C! Not really fair I would say!
We didn't get taught anything incredibly technical, but our avant-guard german pirate-lookalike who only wore black and listened to Baroque classical music (sorry, ive gone on a bit
) Did teach us all the basics and "theories/ideas" of photography, and all about the dark room etc enough know-how to get by, but he said that its more of a "personal" A-level and your expected to develop your own style, so thats the reason for lack-of-knowledge being taught technically. Though I got fed up with that and got him to teach me out of class (seeing I was the only one interested, the rest did it because they thought it would be easy/they where arty).It also doesn't help if you only have ASA 400 film, which isn't great if you need to do a range of stuff. which we did.
[edit]
Oh god! ive written a mini-essay, sorry! I won't hold it against anyone who doesn't bother reading it lol
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Oh, also, Kudos to grant, because that is the basic idea that they teach you lol!
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My personal photos are just what I find interesting, which to me does not need explanation. The result of learning photography through google? That would answer my initial question.
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But then comes the fact that people are actually allowed on to a degree course who have no idea how their camera works technically..
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Oh definitely! But they usually drop out within the first year, or are kicked out by the end of it.
p.s. I added you as a contact on Flickr, I hope you don't mind - good work.
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I dropped out in the first year
but that wasn't because I didn't know the basics, it was just the wrong course for me Thanks, I'll check your gallery out later!
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I dropped out in the first year
Thanks, I'll check your gallery out later!
It's not worth checking out, I deleted everything and have started posting more refined stuff (By started, I mean I've got one up...)
Thanks though
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It's not worth checking out, I deleted everything and have started posting more refined stuff (By started, I mean I've got one up...)
Thanks though
I noticed.. I thought you'd found some way of hiding all your pics and it got me all confused
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I noticed.. I thought you'd found some way of hiding all your pics and it got me all confused
Oh, well - I did hide them. I have a lot of personal stuff I've uploaded (friends/family) and a lot of weak photography, bla bla bla.
I just felt I've used it a little like a scrapbook and not a portfolio... And whilst I don't want it as a portfolio of my work (my site should be that..) I don't want it like a scrap book either!
Just to throw it out there, I've learnt more chatting to other photographers and using this forum that I have in studying my course. I browsed for a good few months before I joined here and some of the stuff you pick up is unreal compared to what you learn in the classroom.
Take equipment for example, if you say to anyone in my class a lenses aperture and focal ranges, they would look at you like you have three heads. I had a very very basic idea of equipment and how do do what I wanted to do before I came here. I could capture the shots I wanted but in coming here I picked up a hell of a lot of extra info that helped polish up my techniques and lead to better all around photos, none of the critisism or advice you guys give gets given in the classroom.
Take equipment for example, if you say to anyone in my class a lenses aperture and focal ranges, they would look at you like you have three heads. I had a very very basic idea of equipment and how do do what I wanted to do before I came here. I could capture the shots I wanted but in coming here I picked up a hell of a lot of extra info that helped polish up my techniques and lead to better all around photos, none of the critisism or advice you guys give gets given in the classroom.
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