How to focus on eyes

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some cool things for use on the forums..

:gag::thinking::p:wave::rules::dummy:

there are lots of them, for many occasions.
 
Thank goodness for those advocating NOT using centre point recompose. It's fine if you are shooting at f11 but at f1.8 you don't have room to play with.

And the worst conditions to use it in is low light when generally you are trying to shoot pretty much wide open and at slow shutter speeds anyway and there you are waving the blasted camera about!

Don't do it ;)
 
As mentioned, you just have to make a slight adjustment back with your head. With 50mm at typical portrait distance (ie. fairly close), a couple of cm's is typically about right. This becomes second nature - it's reasonably easy to judge how far the focal plane shifts.

It's a bit like the adjustment you make when using a rangefinder close up. I have a Contax G2, if taking a close portrait, I make an adjustment of the head upwards before taking the photo so that the lens takes the photo from the same perspective as my eye.

I don't have time to faff around with different focus points, KISS principle is king. If you move the focal point, you can be sure that next time you want to take a picture quickly, you'll have left the focal point in the wrong corner and you'll be searching the frame trying to find it.
 
Crofts said:
As mentioned, you just have to make a slight adjustment back with your head. With 50mm at typical portrait distance (ie. fairly close), a couple of cm's is typically about right. This becomes second nature - it's reasonably easy to judge how far the focal plane shifts.

It's a bit like the adjustment you make when using a rangefinder close up. I have a Contax G2, if taking a close portrait, I make an adjustment of the head upwards before taking the photo so that the lens takes the photo from the same perspective as my eye.

I don't have time to faff around with different focus points, KISS principle is king. If you move the focal point, you can be sure that next time you want to take a picture quickly, you'll have left the focal point in the wrong corner and you'll be searching the frame trying to find it.
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The problem is though that your just guessing how far to move your head. Hardly accurate a method is it.

I think it depends on your camera, mine has a very useful joystick type button in a very useful area that makes changing af points a synch. I do it all the time with a 6 month old who's moving constantly
 
joescrivens said:
The problem is though that your just guessing how far to move your head. Hardly accurate a method is it.
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AF is never going to be totally accurate since as mentioned above you can't guarantee exactly which bit of the eye it will focus on anyway because of the vagueness of the focussing square. Also, subjects are rarely totally still, so using an f1.4 is not a totally exact science. With a bit of practise, if you find one's focussing approach is reasonably consistently getting the focus in the right place, then that's OK.

I think it depends on your camera, mine has a very useful joystick type button in a very useful area that makes changing af points a synch. I do it all the time with a 6 month old who's moving constantly
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Mine has a similar joystick. For constantly moving subjects, I switchthe camera to the focus tracking mode. If you click on the subject with the focus centralised, then move the camera off-centre, the camera has locked onto that subject and tracks it unless it moves right to the edge of the frame.

I have a switch on the back of the camera that alternates me between my two favoured focussing modes. For both of them I start with a central focussing point though.
 
Crofts said:
AF is never going to be totally accurate since as mentioned above you can't guarantee exactly which bit of the eye it will focus on anyway because of the vagueness of the focussing square. Also, subjects are rarely totally still, so using an f1.4 is not a totally exact science. With a bit of practise, if you find one's focussing approach is reasonably consistently getting the focus in the right place, then that's OK.
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that's what feels dangerous, af isn't totally accurate and then moving your head adds another method that's not totally accurate. I'd be scared of doubling the inaccuracy
 
In practise, I find it works surprisingly well surprisingly often. With a portrait, I like to think that there is a particular fleeting moment when the expression if the subject is right. I don't like the idea of pressing buttons moving focal points around while I should be taking the picture.

Besides, my having two focussing systems for two types of circumstance is complicated enough already, if I was also trying to find the focal point I would start to make mistakes, if not with that then with something else.

There is a lot to be said for simply going with manual focus lenses for the same reason.

Not saying mine is the only right approach, just trying to explain why I prefer the central focal point despite the focal plane issue.
 
Typically I use the centre focus point and recompose, as its a double crossed sensor and is usually working at larger apertures than the outer points. Sure if the eyes sit nicely on a focus point then thats good, if not the outer focus points at 5.6/6.3f which when using lens as open as the 1.8s, 1.4s and 1.2 wont be accurate anyway - I think this is typical if you have a 5D mkII using the 50/85mm 1.2s etc.

Otherwise, manual focus all the way!
 
Crofts said:
Ditto. Life is too short to faff around with different focus points (exception: tracking focus on a moving subject).

Another problem is that with default settings on modern SLR's the shutter button both defines exposure and focus. That's great if what you are focussing on happens to be 18% grey card, otherwise its rubbish.

Generally the ergonomics of modern Nikons and Canons is very badly thought through IMHO.

One option is to use the AEL button and disable the shutter button for determining exposure, but that's not great if exposure is constantly changing, and rather a slow cumbersome way to operate.

With Nikon, the only reasonable way I found was to disable AF on the shutter button and to use only the AF button on the rear of the camera. That way you can use the shutter button to determine exposure and the AF button to focus. It takes a little getting used to, but is an extremely fast and accurate way of working if you want to maintain close control of focus and exposure without it slowing you down.
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Ding! Works for me!
 
I have to say Thank you for a very useful thread, that although it is now blindingly obvious why recomposing isn't a good idea, I had never really thought about it :thinking:

I don't take many protraits, but will ensure care is taken in the future to prevent this error creeping in.

Could this cuase problems when using any lens wide open, even say an f3.5 ?
 
DrRusty said:
I have to say Thank you for a very useful thread, that although it is now blindingly obvious why recomposing isn't a good idea, I had never really thought about it :thinking:

I don't take many protraits, but will ensure care is taken in the future to prevent this error creeping in.

Could this cuase problems when using any lens wide open, even say an f3.5 ?
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the higher the f stop the less of an effect so by 3.5 it might be ok I should think as the dof isn't as shallow.

Glad you have seen the problem with centre focus recompose. Since I've stopped doing it my photos have improved a lot and my shots are sharper
 
I've read most of this thread and am shocked at some of the replies, I can only think some of them are coming from people who have never shot portraits on fast lenses :bang:

I shoot a large number of portraits, both human and equine, wide open. Take it from me, you don't have enough DOF on lenses 85mm and beyond with fast apertures of f1.4, to recompose. Either you or your model will have moved enough to potentially put their eyes OOF. Moving focus points, working in manual focus (as I often do) or luck is the only way to go. :)

If you want proof PM me and I'm sure I've got some images with focus point info, I can show you, to illustrate my point.
 
smoothedit said:
From what I remember it is the center AF point that is the most accurate?
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Depends on the camera - with my D700 it's the middle 15 points that are of 'cross' type. They are better in low light and when the subject doesn't have much contrast etc, but for most portraits I find the outside points equally as good.

Crofts said:
Ditto. Life is too short to faff around with different focus points (exception: tracking focus on a moving subject).
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Changing focus points is a bit of a faff, but the idea of recomposing when at f1.8 seems very hit and miss to me. The dof is so shallow, that even relatively stationairy models move enough to through an eye out of focus. I like to compose, use the appropriate focus point, hold the AF button down and shoot when the expression is what I'm after.
With Nikon, the only reasonable way I found was to disable AF on the shutter button and to use only the AF button on the rear of the camera
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How many reasonable ways do we need. Seems like the perfect option to me, I did the same with my D70.

DiddyDave said:
Centre focus point & refocus is fine... IF you can GUARANTEE to not move your plane of focus while you recompose - which, generally speaking, you can't :(
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This is how I feel about it, but if you can get it to work, great.

this poor practise saves loads of time & hassle on a Wedding shoot :)
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Blimey :) Do you shoot your weddings with quite wide aperture then?
 
I've not used centre focus point & recompose much since I relegated a camera with dodgy button feel to backup duties a few years ago. But I was wondering if my 2nd-hand Sigma ƒ/1.4 30mm was soft on the right until using centre and recompose and finding the results noticeably better. I must do some testing with a longer lens (so I can more easily see the feature focused on through the viewfinder) and a more controlled setup...
 
treeman said:
I've read most of this thread and am shocked at some of the replies, I can only think some of them are coming from people who have never shot portraits on fast lenses :bang:

I shoot a large number of portraits, both human and equine, wide open. Take it from me, you don't have enough DOF on lenses 85mm and beyond with fast apertures of f1.4, to recompose. Either you or your model will have moved enough to potentially put their eyes OOF. Moving focus points, working in manual focus (as I often do) or luck is the only way to go. :)

If you want proof PM me and I'm sure I've got some images with focus point info, I can show you, to illustrate my point.
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that was my reaction too
 
Take it from me, you don't have enough DOF on lenses 85mm and beyond with fast apertures of f1.4, to recompose.
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It's just a matter of practising and getting to know your equipment. Have a go!

Having been brought up on manual lenses, where you only have centre focus, using the centre focus point isn't such a strange idea. What do you do when using medium format equipment which has very shallow depth of field and only one focal spot - stop photographing? Generations of photographers have worked like this, it's just a matter or learning how to do it, and what kind of adjustment is necessary, and when.

Blimey Do you shoot your weddings with quite wide aperture then?
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A lot of the time, yes. Why? Do you have the idea that you can only shoot weddings at mid apertures?
 
Manual focus? I suppose you need a proper viewfinder to pull that off accurately, though I manage just fine on my D200....
 
Manual focus? I suppose you need a proper viewfinder to pull that off accurately, though I manage just fine on my D200...
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If you want to you can achieve something similar to manual focus using AF - you can autofocus then give a tiny tweak of the barrel, if you feel like it.

I'm just wondering about how the people who think you can't use just the central focus point would get on with a Leica rangefinder with a 50mm f0.95 Nocturn lens! Presumably in-focus photography is impossible with such equipment.
 
Which ones were shot at 1.4 and 1.8?
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I was responding with the link to the thing about not shooting weddings at maximum aperture, rather than portraits, focussing on which eye bit.

I don't have a record of which images were shot at what aperture - some of them are manual lenses, so the EXIF data isn't accurate and my memory not that good. The vast majority of interior shots if you look round the website and blog would be shot around f1.4 and f2. A lot of the exterior shots are also deliberately shot at those apertures (sometimes not possible though on a bright day!) I would tend to use max aperture in most of my pics cos I tend to like the shallow depth of field. All my lenses are either f1.4 or f2, except the 20mm.

You can't tell sharpness from the website since the images are resized by the gallery software and lose a bit of definition to help them load quickly, but I'm pretty fussy about images being crispy sharp, so the originals are sharp in the right places.
 
Use the nearest AF point, don't recompose, crop to get the composure you want. May not work all the time but on v-shallow DOF it is an option, it will depend on how much you have to cut but you get the eye in focus.
 
Crofts said:
It's just a matter of practising and getting to know your equipment. Have a go!

Having been brought up on manual lenses, where you only have centre focus, using the centre focus point isn't such a strange idea. What do you do when using medium format equipment which has very shallow depth of field and only one focal spot - stop photographing? Generations of photographers have worked like this, it's just a matter or learning how to do it, and what kind of adjustment is necessary, and when.
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Thanks, but I've had a go at that and I get better consistent results the way I work now.

Just for the record I was bought up on manual focus 35mm then medium format then large format. In those days you simply used the remaining Matte screen to focus, and that is also the way I tend to work now.

Of course if you're good enough to use centre focus point on the eyes then recompose and then tweak the barrel a bit to get focus spot on, I'm quite prepared to concede you're a far better skilled tog than me :) But that wasn't what anyone was suggesting, and that's why I said, simply recomposing without any further focus adjustment on long lenses wide open would most likely lead to OOF eyes. :)
 
Of course if you're good enough to use centre focus point on the eyes then recompose and then tweak the barrel
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No, I was just pointing out you can use manual focus combined with AF. I use the technique I described earlier, with a delicate shift of the head on the rare occasion where it's necessary, which is very accurate and works beautifully!

Thanks, but I've had a go at that and I get better consistent results the way I work now.
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It doesn't take that much practise! But if you have problems with it, then best to stick with what works for you.
 
Why do cameras have more than 1 af point if the best technique is centre recompose?
 
Since the first time I picked up an SLR I've used an outer focus point for focusing on the eye. Why do you think people get so excited when Nikon/Canon announce that their latest pro DSLR will have 51 focus points or whatever. It's not so that they can carry on focusing with the centre dot!

The centre dot/recompose method is a sure fire way to miss focus imo - especially at the aperture the OP first suggest - F1.8.

My advice to anyone shooting portraits would be to practice selecting focus points until it becomes second nature. Your compositions will improve and so will your focusing. Either that or stick to smaller apertures and carry on with centre point focus and recompose; and then lose the creative freedome that large apertures give you in the first place.
 
Why do cameras have more than 1 af point if the best technique is centre recompose?
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Like many functions on dSLR's, they're aimed at people who like gizmos on equipment rather than photography.

If you're using an f1.4 lens, then you're unlikely to put the point of focus right in the very corner very often. If you do, it's unlikely to be terribly sharp because f1.4 lenses are rarely very sharp in the corners. Dunno about Canons, but Nikons don't have focus points right into the corners anyway, they're all clustered not far from the centre, even the outermost ones. Within that area, the shift in focus is minimal, and easily corrected - it only becomes significant if there is something that is critical focus like an eye right towards the edge of the frame. If there is, then the best way and most accurate way to focus is manually, judging it by eye. Off-centre focal points won't give you the right answer anyway in that case, they simply don't go far enough out.

There is a reason why so many of the best top end pro cameras don't bother with multiple focus points - they're really a toy, of marginal use. If they're a toy that you happen to like and find of some kind of use, then play away with them, there's no problem with that. But all this armchair theorising on this thread about not being able to focus with centre focussing is laughable.
 
Crofts said:
Like many functions on dSLR's, they're aimed at people who like gizmos on equipment rather than photography.

If you're using an f1.4 lens, then you're unlikely to put the point of focus right in the very corner very often. If you do, it's unlikely to be terribly sharp because f1.4 lenses are rarely very sharp in the corners. Dunno about Canons, but Nikons don't have focus points right into the corners anyway, they're all clustered not far from the centre, even the outermost ones. Within that area, the shift in focus is minimal, and easily corrected - it only becomes significant if there is something that is critical focus like an eye right towards the edge of the frame. If there is, then the best way and most accurate way to focus is manually, judging it by eye. Off-centre focal points won't give you the right answer anyway in that case, they simply don't go far enough out.

There is a reason why so many of the best top end pro cameras don't bother with multiple focus points - they're really a toy, of marginal use. If they're a toy that you happen to like and find of some kind of use, then play away with them, there's no problem with that. But all this armchair theorising on this thread about not being able to focus with centre focussing is laughable.
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Mine isn't armchair theorising, mine is experience. When I used centre recompose I got OOF images, when using off centre focal points I get in focus images, hence why I am arguing against your point
 
Sorry, probably getting a little over-irritated by those who think theirs way is the only right way. As I said before, if it works for you then fine.

But from me the basic message is - if you want to take good pictures, then keep the controls as simple as possible. While you're trying to see which focus point you left the camera set on last time and deciding which one you want to switch to next, a good photographer will be spending his/her time observing the subject and will have taken an excellent, in-focus frame, and will be thinking about the next one. Thinking about the photography, not the focus points.

That's my approach. It works. If others enjoy using all the bells and whistles on the camera and find they can get a technically in-focus picture with an eye in the corner that way, and that's what they want, then that's great, there is no problem with that, and they are welcome to it!
 
p.s. got to leave this discussion now - heading out to take some pictures :) Don't worry, they'll all be nicely in focus! ;)
 
Crofts said:
Sorry, probably getting a little over-irritated by those who think theirs way is the only right way. As I said before, if it works for you then fine.

But from me the basic message is - if you want to take good pictures, then keep the controls as simple as possible. While you're trying to see which focus point you left the camera set on last time and deciding which one you want to switch to next, a good photographer will be spending his/her time observing the subject and will have taken an excellent, in-focus frame, and will be thinking about the next one. Thinking about the photography, not the focus points.

That's my approach. It works. If others enjoy using all the bells and whistles on the camera and find they can get a technically in-focus picture with an eye in the corner that way, and that's what they want, then that's great, there is no problem with that, and they are welcome to it!
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It's hardly like this at all, the time it take you to recompose and adjust your head in whatever way you suggested is exactly the same amount of time it takes me to change my focus point. the control is right next to my thumb. You spend a second recomposing, I spend a second moving the AF point, we get the pic at the same time.

On the second pic I don't need to change focus points because it's already in the right spot, so I get the pic faster than you because you have to focus again then recompose and move your head.

I also don't appreciate the way you are talking like a good photographer wouldn't be using specific AF points, just because you don't doesn't make those who do not good photographers.

You say everyone's methods are fine and yet there is a pompous undertone to your message implying that manual focus point selection is an amateur feature for people who like bells and whistles. It doesn't offend me really because I don't claim to be a good photographer, but there are plenty others on here that do and are :thumbs:
 
You say everyone's methods are fine and yet there is a pompous undertone to your message implying that manual focus point selection is an amateur feature for people who like bells and whistles.
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Could be pompous but if so it's in response to the arrogance of those who were suggesting that using the centre point and recomposing is somehow 'wrong'. For example you put in bold and agreed with the statement you that:

I've read most of this thread and am shocked at some of the replies, I can only think some of them are coming from people who have never shot portraits on fast lenses :bang:
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You tell us that you are not a good photographer (not having seen your pictures, I can only take your word for it, assuming you're not suffering from false modesty), but you are willing to dismiss others as having no experience because they disagree with your favoured approach?

I am not saying that you can't be a good photographer if you use multiple focus points. I'm sure many good photographers do use them. I do however believe that very many of the best photographers will try to keep the controls clear and simple, and I think that you will find that an awful lot of them will not want to faff around with focus points.
 
It's hardly like this at all, the time it take you to recompose and adjust your head in whatever way you suggested is exactly the same amount of time it takes me to change my focus point. the control is right next to my thumb. You spend a second recomposing, I spend a second moving the AF point, we get the pic at the same time.
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p.s. I should have said - what you say here is perfectly true. The big difference is that I only have to make this adjustment with my head in exceptional circumstances, for an occasional picture (focussing on an eye close up where it's towards the edge of the frame.

But once you start moving the focal point around, you have to check where you left it for every single picture that you take. Even if you normally leave it in the middle and only shift it in exceptional cases, the chance of the shift toggle being knocked accidentally if you haven't locked it off means that you constantly have to check where it is before taking the picture. For me, that's too much distraction. If you manage to work your way round that without it causing you to miss moments or miss-focus pictures or getting distracted, then that's great!
 
Crofts said:
I am not saying that you can't be a good photographer if you use multiple focus points.
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you're not?

what about when you said:

Crofts said:
Like many functions on dSLR's, they're aimed at people who like gizmos on equipment rather than photography.
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and then

Crofts said:
While you're trying to see which focus point you left the camera set on last time and deciding which one you want to switch to next, a good photographer will be spending his/her time observing the subject and will have taken an excellent, in-focus frame, and will be thinking about the next one.
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call me crazy but it sounds to me like you are saying multiple AF points are aimed at gadget lovers and those gadget lovers will be spending time choosing those AF points as opposed to the GOOD photographer who'll be observing the subject.

your writing mate, not mine! :bonk:
 
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