Beginner How to get off auto

Stardust

Stardust

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Charlie
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Hi all,

I inherited a Nikon D80 about 5 years ago (my main camera is a Panasonic DMC-TZ20) which I reused for the first time on Sunday. I've currently got it on auto and would love to be able to move away from this setting.
My passion is outdoor/wildlife/motion (mainly equestrian sport) photography.
Does anyone have any tips on how best to do this please? Does anyone know of any good tutorial YouTube videos?

Thank you :)
 
Next step would be Shutter or Aperture priority. You set the shutter speed or aperture and the camera fills in the rest. That's putting it simply, as you can adjust the ISO to help dictate the other settings.

Understanding how shutter speed, aperture and ISO contribute to exposure would be the thing to start learning about and when aperture priority or shutter priority should be used to get the results you want.
 
Note that A and S modes are both still automatic modes, they just allow the user to set one of the parameters and let the camera decide on the other(s). P mode still allows the user to deviate from the cameras selected settings to get the shutter speed or aperture he/she wants but will revert back to the camera's choice when the camera's turned off and back on. Full manual has its place but many people still rely on the camera's meter to balance their exposures which gives the same result as any of the (semi) automatic modes and in the semi auto modes, the user can always use some deliberate exposure compensation if they want to.
 
As mentioned above learning about aperture, shutter speed and ISO, the effect they have on an image and how the combination relates to what you want from an image are essential.

Trying any mode, eg aperture priority, shutter priority or full manual, is a good idea and have their place but they are no good if you don't know what they do.

Fortunately there is a lot of information on line. Google for exposure triangle or aperture, shutter speed and ISO.

Dave
 
Thanks everyone! Will take a look at Google tonight and check out Mike Browne's vids. Hopefully I'll be able to start uploading photos soon off auto mode :)
Would you all suggest using a tripod when off auto mode to help with stability of the camera?
 
Tripods help when photographing things where the shutter speed is likely to be very low, but for the types of photos you suggest in your opening post - wildlife & horsey sports, a higher shutter speed will be needed. They do slow you down which makes you think about your photograph more. You may find a monopod beneficial to support the camera, some lenses are quite heavy, but you'll find that out once you start using the camera more.
 
The depth of field changes with every focal length and distance from subject and aperture used.

If you use a zoom lens this is a mathematical nightmare that you can make massive charts detailing the effects on depth of field at every focal length, distance and aperture.

It is impossible to learn it unless you are autistic or have a photographic memory.

Yes there is a DOF preview button but I have never been able make out DOF using it personally.

What is ten times easier is if you use a prime lens that is wide or wide / standard.

That is because the DOF of wider lenses leave more in focus in-front of and behind your subject.

That is desirable when in full manual because with telephoto or zoom lenses you can end up with a shallow depth of field that you didn't want half the time, ruining the photo.

and its considerably easier to learn DOF of one focal length.

Then you can concentrate more on shutter speed and other things instead of thinking about DOF and how much will be in focus.
 
There is no point in using manual unless you know what changing settings does and when to apply them. And when you know that, most experienced photographers will tend to use one of the auto-modes, usually aperture-priority, and let the camera make the changes for them. Knowledge is key, and the main thing to understand is the Exposure Triangle of shutter speed, lens aperture, and ISO.

This simulator is pretty good, but be sure to then put theory into practise. Look at your results, try different things, and check what's going on http://camerasim.com/apps/original-camerasim/web/
 
I tend to stick to aperture priority but more and more lately have been switching over to Manual. Thank you for the link to Mike Browne's videos, just watched his latest composition one and it gives some brilliant tips!
 
I've found full manual mode far easier if your camera has auto ISO but I still use shutter priority when I know the subject is moving quickly and freezing the action is the priority. I don't find myself using Aperture priority so much these days but I did in the past when learning.
 
gman said:
I've found full manual mode far easier if your camera has auto ISO but I still use shutter priority when I know the subject is moving quickly and freezing the action is the priority. I don't find myself using Aperture priority so much these days but I did in the past when learning.
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If you are using auto ISO that is not maual. manual is control of Aperture, shutter speed and ISO.

An easy way to learn maual is to set the ISO at say 200 ISO and then go out and take photos adjusting the aperture and shutter speed to compensate each other stop by stop using the light meter. Then when you understand how the aperture and shutter speed balance each other out start to use different ISO's.

It should be realy easy with a digital camera as you can see the results straight away.

Forget all the depth of field thing until you have learnt the exposure controls.
 
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'Auto' as far as exposure control is only one bit of automation on a modern camera.
Ironically 'auto-focus' is another, newer, less reliable, and far more versatile control you could 'go manual' on.. but few do....
But, the impertinent question is WHY?
I didn't pay upety hundred quid for an all singing, all dancing, auto-everything electric-picture-maker, with more computer-power and more expert programming i the ruddy thing to turn all that 'off' and have the 'faff' of using it like my old clock-work Film camera, that only had the 'easement' of a swing needle through the lens exposure meter, doing all the work myself, and STILL being reliant on the meter's best guess of how bright i should want the picture....
Flippant 'answer' to how to get off 'Auto' is simply turn the ruddy knob on the exposure setting dial and find the switch on the lens for AF!.
Question remains WHY you would want to?
If you know enough to know when going manual MAY be helpful to you, then you should know that you rarely need to.. and that even then, a little exposure comp or an alternative icon auto mode is probably as good ad still easier.
If you don't know when going manual may help.... you likely don't know enough to do what the camera would for you, and it wont!
Notion that 'Pros Go manual' is a myth... paid for their efforts they don't want to waste time messing with settings the camera could make a lot faster and probably just as well as they could! Time is money; they use as much 'easement' as they can to save time and make money.
This notion of going manual, is a peculiar bit of academic snobbery, where in teaching you probably have to go manual to find out what the camera settings are doing and when ad where you may use alternatives to get alternative effects.. which is only really of pertinence if you are doing academic learning exercises...
By all means go try those academic exercises, learn how to effect greater control over your camera... BUT don't get prosaic about it, remember 'auto' isn't confined to the exposure methods, there's still the focus you may take direct control of, possible to greater 'effect'.. but either way, you wont take better photo's looking at the settings, you will take better photo's looking at the scene!
You will achieve far more worrying about that, and subject and composition, than you will letting the camera auto-focus on 'something' in frot of the lens whilst you fret about what settigs to manually dial i to balance the TTL exposure meter.. exactly like an auto-exposure or semi-auto exposure setting wold, without the faff!
 
Why? So you are in full control of the camera and you understand what is going on in the camera.

You may wish to use one of the three options available in manual. ISO,shutter speed or aperture.

Manual can do everything.
 
Practice and have a play. The bit that helped me understand the triangle of ISO, Aperture, Shutter was a book called Understanding Exposure, and it went from there.

I prefer manual - I shoot film too so don't have a choice there, but for digital it just means I get the results I am aiming for. After a while you can sort of judge where you need to be without chimping or looking at the settings. I generally keep ISO on 200 (ideally) or 400 as a standard, with shutter I aim for 1/125 or faster for most people shots and aperture will depend on the look I want (and the lens). Obviously there are many variables so for airshows my first setting is shutter at 1/200 and often need to then drop ISO to 100, or for the kids playing football ISO can be higher as will shutter... it all depends on the light and conditions.
 
shapeshifter said:
Why? So you are in full control of the camera and you understand what is going on in the camera.

You may wish to use one of the three options available in manual. ISO,shutter speed or aperture.

Manual can do everything.
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Except you are nowhere near in full control of the camera. You are controlling three aspects of the picture making only (or four aspects if you are using manual focus as well). All the rest the camera is still doing for itself - and it does a great deal apart from those three (four) things.
 
john.margetts said:
Except you are nowhere near in full control of the camera. You are controlling three aspects of the picture making only (or four aspects if you are using manual focus as well). All the rest the camera is still doing for itself - and it does a great deal apart from those three (four) things.
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Including white balance, although this and focusing isn't part of exposure but I suppose you could argue they are still auto functions.
 
john.margetts said:
Except you are nowhere near in full control of the camera. You are controlling three aspects of the picture making only (or four aspects if you are using manual focus as well). All the rest the camera is still doing for itself - and it does a great deal apart from those three (four) things.
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If a camera is in manual as apposed to any auto mode the photographer is in control. I fail to see how anyone can dispute that.
 
shapeshifter said:
If a camera is in manual as apposed to any auto mode the photographer is in control. I fail to see how anyone can dispute that.
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Car Crash Conundrum.... just because a vehicle has a lever you might waggle merely provides the illusion one 'may' effect some influence over a situation, it does not, by a very long way, mean someone is even partly, let alone 'fully' 'in control'... even if they are supposedly a qualified 'driver'!

King Cnut is unfairly ridiculed by Christian History; his sitting on the beach trying to command the tide to turn, was actually a parody, to teach his bishops, (holding his chair) demanding he pass law to make all his subjects Christian, to prove that even the most powerful man in the land did not have the power to control everything.....

Go try take a photo of a playful puppy or a child in a park, or asking a butterfly to pose for you, then tell me how much 'control' you have, merely by selecting 'M' on the exposure dial!
 
shapeshifter said:
If a camera is in manual as apposed to any auto mode the photographer is in control. I fail to see how anyone can dispute that.
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I use AP most of the time - am I not in control then? I feel like I am, the photos I feel are mine not the camera's

Arguing, or pish-taking, over Manual v Auto is old hat boring because if you're relying on the camera's metering system alone then the results will be exactly the same, whereas using an external meter means the results will (err) probably be the same; knowing when to adjust via Exp Comp (if on an auto setting) or to dial in more/less of something when in Manual is the photography bit that requires some understanding

Dave
 
shapeshifter said:
If a camera is in manual as apposed to any auto mode the photographer is in control. I fail to see how anyone can dispute that.
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I can dispute that because all you are controlling is the exposure. Exposure is a smallish part of what the camera does when you press the shutter release. You are not in control of the rest (sensor voltage amplification, noise reduction, a/d conversion, demosaicing, just to mention the obvious that immediately springs to mind).
 
shapeshifter said:
If a camera is in manual as apposed to any auto mode the photographer is in control. I fail to see how anyone can dispute that.
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I can dispute it quite easily in a number of ways.

Firstly, you're only in control if you know what you're doing, no matter what mode the camera is set to. Secondly if you know what you're doing you're in control no matter what mode of operation you've set the camera to. Thirdly if you want to disable all of the automatic adjustments the camera makes and do it all yourself then you have to do quite a bit more than just switch the dial to manual. In fact I would argue if you think you're fully in control just because you've switched the mode dial to "manual" then you don't know what you're doing.

Ask me another :)
 
john.margetts said:
I can dispute that because all you are controlling is the exposure. Exposure is a smallish part of what the camera does when you press the shutter release. You are not in control of the rest (sensor voltage amplification, noise reduction, a/d conversion, demosaicing, just to mention the obvious that immediately springs to mind).
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But exposure is the bit that creates a photo, be it film or digital. Its the light hitting the film or sensor for an amount of time that is the main part of it all. You could argue that even on a Leica M2 or Rollei that you are not completely in control as the shutter speed while set by you, is camera controlled (is 1/250 really 1/250?). I guess the only way you can be in complete control is an old large format camera where you physically remove the cap, count to x yourself and then replace. But we can argue about the details all day long... of the things we can control, manual is the way you can fully decide what to do.
 
cambsno said:
<snip> But we can argue about the details all day long... of the things we can control, manual is the way you can fully decide what to do.
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where we part company is your word 'fully'. You get to decide some, but not fully.

You mentioned film - with film (which I still shoot using a fully manual camera: a Bronica ETRs), I choose the film, I choose the exposure, I choose the developer, I choose the development regime, I choose the paper, the paper developer, etc ... 'Fully' in control is much, much more than exposure.

With digital, you get very little control and it is never 'fully'. Once you realise that 'fully' is not going to happen, you might as well let the camera do what it does best, which for me is always using Av mode, and concentrate on the artistic elements.
 
john.margetts said:
where we part company is your word 'fully'. You get to decide some, but not fully.

You mentioned film - with film (which I still shoot using a fully manual camera: a Bronica ETRs), I choose the film, I choose the exposure, I choose the developer, I choose the development regime, I choose the paper, the paper developer, etc ... 'Fully' in control is much, much more than exposure.

With digital, you get very little control and it is never 'fully'. Once you realise that 'fully' is not going to happen, you might as well let the camera do what it does best, which for me is always using Av mode, and concentrate on the artistic elements.
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The camera is a tool to do a job, and the the principles of photography have not changed in over 100 years despite all manner of camera developments. From large format, to a brownie, to a polaroid to a D5, the common stuff is the sensitivity (ISO), aperture and shutter speed (or time). Those are the basic elements of photography and IMO are the key things that determine the finished image. If I take the same shot with my Rolleicord and my D750 using the same settings I broadly get the same results (obviously depends on how i process or what type of film i use). The other elements I don't control have very little impact. Maybe fully is not 100% true, but then again what are we really fully in control of? You could turn off all the driver aids like traction control, have a manual gearbox, and i would argue you are driving the car manually even though it has power steering and you haven't set the gears yourself!

I think a lot depends on what you are shooting but for me the camera doesn't know best a lot of the time, especially when shooting planes or my kids.
 
DG Phototraining said:
@Stardust - What is it about auto that's not working for you?

Dave
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Hi Dave,

It may sound silly but I feel like a bit of a cheat using auto. I went to Duxford last Sunday which is where I used the Nikon for the first time in years and although I'm really pleased with some of my photos, particularly the spitfire which was in motion, I don't feel as though they're 100% mine as I didn't really use any skill in taking them, if that makes sense. I know moving off auto will be difficult and will take a lot of practice to get non blurry photos but I think I may feel more of a sense of achievement with my photos for doing so. When I use my Panasonic I've started to turn auto off as feeling a bit more confident with it and my photos of horses jumping have started to come out non blurry which I'm really pleased with. I know I still have a long way to go but I would like to feel the same with my Nikon. As I say it's a silly reason really.
 
Stardust said:
Hi Dave,

It may sound silly but I feel like a bit of a cheat using auto. I went to Duxford last Sunday which is where I used the Nikon for the first time in years and although I'm really pleased with some of my photos, particularly the spitfire which was in motion, I don't feel as though they're 100% mine as I didn't really use any skill in taking them, if that makes sense. I know moving off auto will be difficult and will take a lot of practice to get non blurry photos but I think I may feel more of a sense of achievement with my photos for doing so. When I use my Panasonic I've started to turn auto off as feeling a bit more confident with it and my photos of horses jumping have started to come out non blurry which I'm really pleased with. I know I still have a long way to go but I would like to feel the same with my Nikon. As I say it's a silly reason really.
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I get the sense of achievement you speak of, when I shoot film there is a greater sense of achievement in nailing a shot, having to cope with no light meter, manual focus etc...

There are plenty of times when A mode or whatever will be perfect, but with planes I believe you do need to have more control, the camera doesn't know for example that you need to be 1/200 or 1/250 ideally for the prop blur. Far to slow for a 600mm lens but shooting that at even 1/500 or certainly 1/1000 will see a static prop which for me spoils the image. Likewise jets, I think 1/1250 is the min you should aim for and you need to balance that with the lens, the Tamron 150-600 while good, like most, its not the best wide open to you do need to manually set the aperture and shutter IMO.

If you are shooting planes you will get a lot of rejects and blurred pics, its the nature of the beast!
 
Forget all this "the camera took the photo because it was in auto or semi auto modes".
Understanding how the camera picked the settings it did is the important bit and it can only do that with the light meter. So having the right metering mode is just as important as other setting you may decide are right. The meter can be fooled quite easily, if say you have a dark subject on a light background, you're either going to have to increase exposure compensation or adjust the metering. So my point is really, know how your camera works and why it uses the settings it does.
 
Stardust said:
Hi Dave,

It may sound silly but I feel like a bit of a cheat using auto. I went to Duxford last Sunday which is where I used the Nikon for the first time in years and although I'm really pleased with some of my photos, particularly the spitfire which was in motion, I don't feel as though they're 100% mine as I didn't really use any skill in taking them, if that makes sense. I know moving off auto will be difficult and will take a lot of practice to get non blurry photos but I think I may feel more of a sense of achievement with my photos for doing so. When I use my Panasonic I've started to turn auto off as feeling a bit more confident with it and my photos of horses jumping have started to come out non blurry which I'm really pleased with. I know I still have a long way to go but I would like to feel the same with my Nikon. As I say it's a silly reason really.
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There has been a lot of 'discussion' in the thread about 'what is auto' that is probably not particularly helpful to you.

What it sounds like you are after is more influence over the final look of the photo - rather than purely deciding what is in or out of the frame (which is the one thing that even on auto a camera can't yet do - and is the basis for any photograph - your choice of subject).

Actually, you do make one more decision that influences the look of the image - your choice of focal length - use a wider angle lens and get closer, or a longer focal length and take the shot from further away - the relationship between objects in the scene will be different.

The next 'choice' you can make is the one you are thinking of - which is the balance of Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO - the 'Exposure Triangle'.

I suspect that most photographers who choose to move off 'auto' will actually use either 'Aperture Priority' or 'Shutter Priority' modes most of the time.
These are semi-auto modes, where you select either the Aperture (to control Depth of Field) or Shutter Speed (to control Freezing / Blurring of motion), and let the camera then determine a 'balanced' exposure by metering the scene and selecting suitable values for the other two settings.

This works well most of the time, but the camera can be fooled by a scene that has a predominance of light or dark tones - which is where 'exposure compensation' comes in, and allows you to put in an adjustment to the 'balanced' value if needed - you can also use exposure compensation to deliberately over or under expose an image fro artistic effect.

'Manual' in this context is where you select both Aperture and Shutter speed (and ISO, though some cameras allow this to be in auto mode) - the most common situation where this is needed is when working with manually controlled flash / strobe lighting (such as in a studio). Here, the camera cannot calculate the required settings, as the light isn't there until you press the shutter, so you have to tell it what to use.

My suggestion would be to read up (or watch a few videos on) the effects of Aperture and Shutter speed, and the 'Exposure Triangle', then go and practice / play a bit in Aperture Priority and Shutter priority modes - see how taking the same shot with different settings changes the image.
Once you've used them a bit you can decide if they are right for you or not.
 
Stardust said:
Hi Dave,

It may sound silly but I feel like a bit of a cheat using auto. I went to Duxford last Sunday which is where I used the Nikon for the first time in years and although I'm really pleased with some of my photos, particularly the spitfire which was in motion, I don't feel as though they're 100% mine as I didn't really use any skill in taking them, if that makes sense. I know moving off auto will be difficult and will take a lot of practice to get non blurry photos but I think I may feel more of a sense of achievement with my photos for doing so. When I use my Panasonic I've started to turn auto off as feeling a bit more confident with it and my photos of horses jumping have started to come out non blurry which I'm really pleased with. I know I still have a long way to go but I would like to feel the same with my Nikon. As I say it's a silly reason really.
Click to expand...

Nothing is ever silly - ok standing on one leg naked shooting Street photography with a Polaroid at night while blindfold would be silly - but generally you shouldn't feel belittled by asking questions or for help :)

Your reasons though are just based on a misunderstanding of that 'Manual' really means and the benefits of using it, there are benefits but only really in a few specific situations, which is why many highly experienced photographers don't shoot Manual most of the time

If you're anywhere near Barnsley PM me and we can hook up for a shoot of something to put it all to bed for you, otherwise try finding someone else local to shoot with - a camera club even - but never feel silly about your photography again :)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
standing on one leg naked shooting Street photography with a Polaroid at night while blindfold would be silly - but
Click to expand...
will probably get you an arts council grant... :p
 
shapeshifter said:
If a camera is in manual as apposed to any auto mode the photographer is in control. I fail to see how anyone can dispute that.
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Well I would. ;)

If the photographer is just following the meter, all they're doing is what the camera would have done on an auto mode.

To be 'in control' means knowing when the cameras meter will get it wrong and compensating. And that can be done in auto and semi auto modes.

Frankly 'Manual = in control' is a myth, at best and stupid at worst.
 
As per Phil.

In manual presumably people still look at the meter. I suppose there's sunny sixteen, urgh... The thought of it!

Give me a meter as a starting point any time and I see nothing wrong with using aperture as that seems to work for me at least until the camera selects too low a shutter speed and then I switch to manual but only because it allows me to set the aperture and shutter I want and hopefully the camera will set the ISO for me, even better if like Sony I can dial in exposure compensation in manual with auto ISO. heaven :D
 
Stardust said:
I've currently got it on auto and would love to be able to move away from this setting.
My passion is outdoor/wildlife/motion (mainly equestrian sport) photography.
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Your main stated use implies the use of shutter priority if in an auto mode. Valid points have been made above. Manual control will be slower, which seems counter-logical for subjects in motion. In an auto mode (such as shutter-priority), you can still control various parameters that make for more accurate (or more suitable) exposure. One is where you meter from - this can be chosen and held if necessary. Another is spot or more general metering. Another is exposure compensation that you can dial in according to judgement.

So you see, you can be in 'auto' and still control things by such interventions when seen fit. You are developing and using skill and judgement. What more could you want?
 
I've never understood why photographers go on about manual being the only option and then only 'balance' the cameras meter in the viewfinder as that isn't 'full manual control'. What matters is using the best mode to get the image, if that's in auto does it really matter? Camera controls are only a small part of photography. You can have a technically great image but lacking composition, light, subject.

The problem is it's best to use whatever feels best for you. I personally use manual with auto ISO (which isn't manual control) for wildlife, aperture priority for landscapes and full manual for long exposures. These work for me now I usnderstand the exposure triangle.

For wildlife the reasons for mauanual auto is on are due to me wanting to set the shutter speed and aperture whilst I'm happy with my camera selecting ISO as I'm happy with ISO100-ISO3200 output with my camera. Whilst I will try to keep ISO as low as possible I want control of the shutter speed so I known subject blur isn't an issue (wildlife can move fast and there isn't anything worse than a blurred image.) and majority of the time I'm using apertures of f4 or f5.6 to get that fast shutter speeds. The problem with auto ISO is some manufacturer seem to do it better than others. With Nikon you can use exsposure compensation in auto ISO so it gives you more control . I often use exposure compensation in auto ISO as it gives a little more control to override the cameras selection in situations where you know the camera may get it wrong.

Landscapes aperture priority is used for landscapes as the camera is on a tripod so shutter speed and set a worry. Having control of aperture for depth of field and setting ISO to the cameras best output is perfect for landscapes. For long exposures I need to select the exposure settings because of the 6-10 stop filter the camera can't so manual is the option after using aperture to get the base exposure settings before applying the filter.

The best way to move on from auto control is read up about exposure (the are many websites that provide information) and read the cameras instruction manual. Like @droj says there is more semi auto controls such as metering modes and focus modes. Once you have read up start easy by using one mode (say aperture priority) and get used to the how to control the exposure values.

For anything moving like wildlife or equestrian set AF-C, single point focus, matrix metering. You can the start altering these settings and seeing their effect once you are happy adjusting aperture/shutter speed/ISO. It can seem like it takes ages to feel like you known what you are doing, one day you will find you are just doing it automatically without thinking. The best thing is to practice. Don't worry if you think you are not getting many 'keepers', the problem always is that you only ever see the best images photographers take, you never see the ones they delete or never edit.
 
Thank you everyone for your comments and tips. Def going to read up about SP, AP and ISO and try practicing them on birds/insects in the garden to get used to the different settings. Thank you hoppyuk for the simulator, I'll check that out and I'll check out the book you suggested cambsno. I might ask for some advice on different lenses once I've got a bit more used to the camera :)
 
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