I have no sympathy !!!

Should I say sorry for starting this thread? I don't think so. What I was getting at was the fact that relatives friends come out with all usual platitudes . The boys were cheeky fun loving, a good father, they ,would do anything for others, nothing about how irresponsible their behavior was . Then of course the latter would not be said. As someone said we must not speak ill of the dead. These young men would have thought, no nothing will happen to us, we dont need a seat belt , let,s have another beer!
 
Jelster said:
It's a matter of choice. They choose to drink, to drive a car, and then break the speed limit. 3 poor choices have ended up killing people. But it's not their fault, appently. :facepalm:
Click to expand...
All from broken homes no doubt :rolleyes:

engine driver said:
Should I say sorry for starting this thread? I don't think so.
Click to expand...
Nor do I!
Far too many culprits, perpetrators, call them what you will, seem to get more sympathy than their victims these days.
What on earth are we doing? :(
 
engine driver said:
Should I say sorry for starting this thread? I don't think so. What I was getting at was the fact that relatives friends come out with all usual platitudes . The boys were cheeky fun loving, a good father, they ,would do anything for others, nothing about how irresponsible their behavior was . Then of course the latter would not be said. As someone said we must not speak ill of the dead. These young men would have thought, no nothing will happen to us, we dont need a seat belt , let,s have another beer!
Click to expand...

I agree with you, do not be sorry for starting the thread at all.
 
Cobra said:
All from broken homes no doubt :rolleyes:


Nor do I!
Far too many culprits, perpetrators, call them what you will, seem to get more sympathy than their victims these days.
What on earth are we doing? :(
Click to expand...
Reading the Daily Mail too much?
 
engine driver said:
Should I say sorry for starting this thread? I don't think so. What I was getting at was the fact that relatives friends come out with all usual platitudes . The boys were cheeky fun loving, a good father, they ,would do anything for others, nothing about how irresponsible their behavior was . Then of course the latter would not be said. As someone said we must not speak ill of the dead. These young men would have thought, no nothing will happen to us, we dont need a seat belt , let,s have another beer!
Click to expand...
Agree- I’m surprised there hasn’t been a vigil for them and a go fund me page for the families.
 
I get that Bridges is saying that the we need to look at the root cause of why certain people choose to do antisocial things that put other peoples lives at risk
at the end of the day the difference between right and wrong is pretty obvious and those guys in that Audi as Cobra said they chose to drink and then drive at 60 mph above the speed limit
they knew what they were doing was wrong and chose to do it anyway so have no sympathy from me I’m afraid and at least nobody innocent was killed which often happens
 
Bridges said:
Reading the Daily Mail too much?
Click to expand...
I live in the real world, unlike some I could mention.
Oh and FYI I haven't read a news paper since Adam was a lad.

Bridges said:
It isn't? I was under the impression that is was.

I wonder whose fault it is?
Click to expand...
Do you not understand sarcasm?

LCPete said:
as Cobra said they chose to drink and then drive at 60 mph above the speed limit
they knew what they were doing was wrong and chose to do it anyway so have no sympathy from me I’m afraid and at least nobody innocent was killed which often happens
Click to expand...
(y)
 
Cobra said:
Far too many culprits, perpetrators, call them what you will, seem to get more sympathy than their victims these days.
Click to expand...
Certain parts of the press have always chosen controversy over factual reporting.

Combine this with the tendency of foolish people not to blame their relatives for any form of misbehaviour, even though it caused harm to others, then you have a toxic mixture. I actually have direct experience of this.

Many years ago I was interviewed by the police, who were investigating a very serious case. It was thought that I might be called as a witness for the defence, to present an alibi. I and another potential witness could remember the event but crucially neither the date nor time. When we were both removed from the defence witness list. we were each approached by the accused person's family, who we knew personally and it was suggested that we could "remember" the date and time in favour of the accused person.

I'll stress here that the family were honest decent people but they were frantic at the thought of the person facing a very long sentence indeed and thoroughly convinced of that person's innocence.

In the event, overwhelming evidence proved the person's guilt and later events made it even clearer. If I or the other possible witness had bowed to the family's pressure, a serious criminal would have been set free. I have always, since then, been leery of family or friends' claims of innocence in cases such as the one we're discussing.
 
Is it a 'news paper' if it's not actually printed?
 
Very hard to lay the blame , maybe the parents , peer pressure , TV advertising, violence on TV , advertising in general ,just look the advertising for motor cars , Most advertising are lies anyway ,Adverting for alcohol, there is no end of causes , I guess it is the way society is heading.
 
engine driver said:
Very hard to lay the blame , maybe the parents , peer pressure , TV advertising, violence on TV , advertising in general ,just look the advertising for motor cars , Most advertising are lies anyway ,Adverting for alcohol, there is no end of causes , I guess it is the way society is heading.
Click to expand...
Society is already there, have you seen Rishi Sunak's latest pandering to the motorist? Heaven forbid that there're curbs on driving.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
... and yours for getting into a car with a drunk/drugged driver ..,
Click to expand...

Very true indeed. Here is a true example, two friends go to town for a good drink and a night on the town in the early hours one who drove in drives back home and the other got a taxi home. The next day the lad who had his car in town goes and picks it up drives to his mates then they go for a drive, sadly the driver has a accident and finds out in hospital his mate died. Never drive even the day after.
 
No doubt their families will already be running GoFundMe pages to pay for their funerals and a big p***-up - why do some people never pay for their own family funerals any more but expect other people to do so? And why on earth do some people contribute to these GFM pages so readily? It's not generosity, I know that much, it's for attention, to be seen to be doing so, I believe.
 
Bridges said:
I don’t think anyone’s trying to do that. Some people choose to try to understand why things happen, rather than simply judge and condemn. Because understanding can help with preventing similar events in the future. Messed up people will still do messed up things, but if you can get to the root of why they are messed up in the first place, and prevent similar patterns of upbringing and socialisation, then you can hopefully prevent future incidents and tragedies. If you make no attempt to understand the root of the problem, then bad stuff will continue to happen.
Click to expand...

Let me give my explanation of why it happens.
These young men come from a social background, where their music glorifies misogyny and violence, where being a gang member, using knives and sometimes guns, is seen as something to aspire to, where treating women badly is par for the course.
I looked at a government site today, which showed that black people make up 3% of the population, yet they are responsible for 46% of knife crime, whereas white/British/European people make up 87% of the UK population and are responsible for 40% of knife crime.
If you consider me to be a racist, then read what Trevor Phillips has to say about it.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Trevor Phillips on gang violence affecting black people

His comments come after a series of stabbings in London and Birmingham in the past week involving a large proportion of black youths.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
andya700 said:
If you consider me to be a racist, then read what Trevor Phillips has to say about it.
Click to expand...
That's a mail link your'll have someone chastise you for that :D

:runaway:
 
Last edited:
I don't know about London and Birmingham but hardly a week goes by without a stabbing here, in MK.
Sometimes fatal and sometimes not.
And when / if a perpetrator is caught, and their picture ends up in the local news feeds, I'll give you one guess as to their ethnicity 99% of the time.
(and that's the local radio stations page & not the daily mail)
 
andya700 said:
Let me give my explanation of why it happens.
Click to expand...
The problem with using such a naive, ignorant and simplistic 'analysis' of a problem, is that it invariably fails to actually explain why the problem exists. Taking your own logic, you could also present statistics such as the vast majority of football related hooliganism is perpetrated by young white men, or that the vast majority of police officers convicted of violent and/or sexual offences, are white.

Cobra said:
And when / if a perpetrator is caught, and their picture ends up in the local news feeds, I'll give you one guess as to their ethnicity 99% of the time.
Click to expand...
You can apply exactly this logic to football hooliganism. You see?

Crime has nothing to do with ethnicity. Football hooligans don't hooligan because they are white, same as young black men don't stab people because they are black. So if you want to actually understand the myriad, highly complex problems that blight our society, you have to move away from race and ethnicity.

Interesting how a thread about young white men in Australia drink driving, turns into people expressing opinions on crimes comitted by black people....
 
Last edited:
engine driver said:
Very hard to lay the blame , maybe the parents , peer pressure , TV advertising, violence on TV , advertising in general ,just look the advertising for motor cars , Most advertising are lies anyway ,Adverting for alcohol, there is no end of causes , I guess it is the way society is heading.
Click to expand...

I really hate the phrase "peer pressure". Maybe I'm not normal, but what other people do does not influence me. I worked in an IT company where many were banging each other, drinking during the week, and some taking drugs. I would go down the pub after work, have one drink and be on my way. My Boss called me "anti-social", I said no, sensible and not easily led..... Just because others do wrong things doesn't mean you have to. Be strong, be different, be principled!!
 
Bridges said:
You can apply exactly this logic to football hooliganism. You see?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't know, I have absolutely no interest in football.
I'm just reporting what I know as fact, locally.
 
Jelster said:
Just because others do wrong things doesn't mean you have to.
Click to expand...
Exactly right!

I sometimes had difficulty with colleagues in similar situations but once they realised I wouldn't change my opinions to suit them, they would leave me to get on with the job.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Exactly right!

I sometimes had difficulty with colleagues in similar situations but once they realised I wouldn't change my opinions to suit them, they would leave me to get on with the job.
Click to expand...
Did you realise that they wouldn't change their opinions either?
 
Bridges said:
Football hooligans don't hooligan because they are white, same as young black men don't stab people because they are black. So if you want to actually understand the myriad, highly complex problems that blight our society, you have to move away from race and ethnicity.
Click to expand...
Trying to get why people behave why they do without demonising them is difficult.

We are all the product of our upbringings and our environments. We have filters and blinkers and it is hard to see round them. One of the easiest things to do is catch sideways glimpses of people agreeing with what we are doing and let that reinforce our behaviour.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top