I think P&O Ferries may have gone under.

[munch]

you can think what ever you want to mate but the truth hurts
voting leave has left loads of old people sitting smugly in there living rooms
while the entire youth generation is now cut off from any employment outside of the UK
the leavers sold out the next generation and all there future, deal with it......

The problem is your statement is not the truth. It's just some random statement you have come up with, that you can not actually back up with any facts. So yes it was a rubbish statement.

 

[Mr Bump]

People can still work in the EU you know.

only if you have a skill that cannot be performed by an EU citizen which is almost zero,

 

[Jelster]

True, but it was the Conservatives that then whittled away the employment rights and also changed the Procedural Rules of the Employment Tribunals - death by a thousand cuts..

At one point (I can't remember the details) Applicants had to pay an upfront hearing fee of (I think) £1295, pretty much an impossibility for most of the people who had lost their job. This was eventually rescinded but is an example of the prevailing attitude.

The get-out-of-jail-card in this situation is redundancy. The person isn't sacked but their job ceases to exist..

Garry, about 6 or 7 years ago I helped my son take a former employer to a tribunal. It cost us nothing, and we ended up winning, which meant the employer had to pay my son 3 months money plus holiday pay. They didn't, and we went via the high court sheriff and got his money, which cost us nothing as the employer had to settle the costs.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Garry, about 6 or 7 years ago I helped my son take a former employer to a tribunal. It cost us nothing, and we ended up winning, which meant the employer had to pay my son 3 months money plus holiday pay. They didn't, and we went via the high court sheriff and got his money, which cost us nothing as the employer had to settle the costs.

He did say the charge was eventually rescinded

 

[Mr Bump]

The problem is your statement is not the truth. It's just some random statement you have come up with, that you can not actually back up with any facts. So yes it was a rubbish statement.

are you sitting smuggly?

 

[munch]

are you sitting smuggly?

Yes, I am actually, having called out your statement for what it was, rubbish.
Even more so as you can't actually answer my post, but resort to a form of insult instead.

 

[Retune]

Apart from the tone, is there any disagreement about the substance of this view of Brexit? Brexit had more support amongst older people (without the votes of the over 50s, there would have been no majority for Leave), but disproportionately affects the young, those most likely to be interested in (and capable of) working in EU27 countries. Clearly one of the supposed aims of Brexit was to make it more difficult for EU workers to compete with UK workers for British jobs, so we should hardly be suprised that the opposite also applies - EU employers are now obliged to prefer EU workers to equally qualified UK workers. Unfortunately it has also had an impact on UK jobs, as with the (largely Brexit-supporting) fishermen who now find that being outside the EU makes it much more difficult to sell their catch to the Single Market.

 

[Cobra]

Apart from the tone, is there any disagreement about the substance of this view of Brexit? Brexit had more support amongst older people (without the votes of the over 50s, there would have been no majority for Leave),

Its amazing that brexit is still being blamed for all the ills of the world, no matter what the issue, several years on,
I know for a fact that my son, of the younger generation, voted out, along with many of his peer group.
And that's just a small snap shot of my local area, I'm sure its not an isolated case(s)

 

[Mr Bump]

Apart from the tone, is there any disagreement about the substance of this view of Brexit? Brexit had more support amongst older people (without the votes of the over 50s, there would have been no majority for Leave), but disproportionately affects the young, those most likely to be interested in (and capable of) working in EU27 countries. Clearly one of the supposed aims of Brexit was to make it more difficult for EU workers to compete with UK workers for British jobs, so we should hardly be suprised that the opposite also applies - EU employers are now obliged to prefer EU workers to equally qualified UK workers. Unfortunately it has also had an impact on UK jobs, as with the (largely Brexit-supporting) fishermen who now find that being outside the EU makes it much more difficult to sell their catch to the Single Market.

yes and that is the absolute answer the older generation have doomed the younger generation and all the crud that comes with it.
And now they sit smuggly in there semis in denial.

 

[Mr Bump]

Its amazing that brexit is still being blamed for all the ills of the world, no matter what the issue, several years on,
I know for a fact that my son, of the younger generation, voted out, along with many of his peer group.
And that's just a small snap shot of my local area, I'm sure its not an isolated case(s)

and yet my parents who voted leave have actually apologized to me and the wife for there stupidity realizing that they have been lied to and duped.
especially my mother as ex NHS and now seeing the inability to recruit foreign nurses.

 

[Cobra]

the older generation have doomed the younger generation

As above the younger generation were setting out the ground rules for their future

 

[Pound Coin]

It will take up to 50 years for the effects of Brexit to show. The Haunted Pencil said so, so I think we will have plenty of ‘benefits’ to come

 

[Baloo]

Figure for Brexit voters by age. 73% of under 24 voted to remain.

Brexit votes by age 2016 | Statista

In the Brexit referendum of 2016, 73 percent of people aged between 18 and 24 voted to remain in the European Union, compared with just 40 percent of people aged over 65.

www.statista.com

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Its amazing that brexit is still being blamed for all the ills of the world, no matter what the issue, several years on,

I think the truth is that Covid revealed the gaps in the Anti-EU arguments. Leaving the EU reduced our options in the current situation and making the break so acrimonious hasn't encouraged other countries to make deals with us.

It's not been our finest hour! :banghead:

 

[JonathanRyan]

Couldn’t they just let current employees in on the situation and say ‘look, this is the situation, you can either take a pay cut(and pay them what they want to pay these new people), or you can lose your job.’ Surely that would be better than making the choice for them?

Some people were offered redundancy a few weeks ago. I don't know how many of it p&o are honouring it. But I know some people who didn't take it have been sacked. Usually, that's not legal.

 

[andya700]

More about the government awareness of P&O's decision to sack the 800 workers.

Government 'knew about planned P&O sackings'

Government ministers knew about P&O Ferries’ plan to slash 800 jobs before staff were informed, it has been revealed.

www.kentonline.co.uk

 

[LCPete]

Its amazing that brexit is still being blamed for all the ills of the world, no matter what the issue, several years on,
I know for a fact that my son, of the younger generation, voted out, along with many of his peer group.
And that's just a small snap shot of my local area, I'm sure its not an isolated case(s)

I know what you’re saying and see what you mean, I’m guilty of that
I’ve tried to move on and forget about it even though it meant a lot to me, I consider myself European because of my background, but for some reason keep getting reminded about the effects of it when things like P&O dumping their UK workforce
even though it does look like it the would have been able to anyway because of the way ships are registered
Just the way our government is behaving at the moment doesn’t help
As for voting for Brexit age all of the younger people I know voted to stay but a majority of people my age and older voted leave

 

[ancient_mariner]

Speaking as a european who did not get a vote, and who has had to apply for right to remain in the country in which I grew up, my feeling is that while there will be significant short term discomfort, longer term Britain may well be better off out of the EU, provided it can manage not to disappear off down one of the various political rabbit holes that are opening up (far right, far left, corruption becoming the norm regardless of colour).

DeGaul was likely correct.

My son could have voted but chose not to. He plans to continue working in Europe and the rest of the world - brexit does not please him, but he'll find ways to deal with it.

 

[Retune]

Its amazing that brexit is still being blamed for all the ills of the world, no matter what the issue, several years on,
I know for a fact that my son, of the younger generation, voted out, along with many of his peer group.
And that's just a small snap shot of my local area, I'm sure its not an isolated case(s)

Of course people of all ages voted for Brexit, and for Remain. But on average there were clear age differences, e.g.:

How Britain voted at the EU referendum | YouGov

Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union

yougov.co.uk

'Under-25s were more than twice as likely to vote Remain (71%) than Leave (29%). Among over-65s the picture is almost the exact opposite, as 64% of over-65s voted to Leave while only 36% voted to Remain. Among the other age groups, voters aged 24 to 49 narrowly opted for Remain (54%) over leave (46%) while 60% of voters between the ages of 50 and 64 went for Leave.'

This isn't really about blaming all the ills of the world on Brexit, but when it comes to UK citizens working in the EU, and vice versa, there are clear barriers now that Freedom of Movement has ended (which was, I thought, something Brexiters welcomed and intended), just as there are new barriers to imports and exports. I don't think the P&O situation is a direct consequence of Brexit, but it says something that the parent company is heavily involved in the post-Brexit 'Freeport' scheme, where they welcome the deregulated environment. We are also seeing a push for more general UK deregulation from Brexiter politicians who see this as an opportunity to make the UK more competitive. Workers' rights aren't exactly a high priority in their plans, though the agreements we have signed with the EU on keeping the playing field level limit the extent to which these rights can be eroded.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I voted to remain and was pretty shocked when a small majority voted the other way, but I don't think that Brexit is directly relevant to the P&O situation.

I think that safety may be an issue with sacking all of the British workers (except for the Captains). Traditionally, all merchant ships have always employed a lot of people who speak different languages to each other, and they manage. But it's one thing having a language and communication problem when the ship is swimming well, but could be very different in an emergency situation when vast numbers of passengers could need to be controlled, helped and loaded into boats quickly. There was, for example, a communications problem when the Estonia was lost with 852 people, there was zero communication with passengers and no boats got away.

 

[Cobra]

I know what you’re saying and see what you mean, I’m guilty of that
I’ve tried to move on and forget about it even though it meant a lot to me,

I think most most have, there is just a small hard core of people that can't move on.
And still try and find a way to blame everything on Brexit

.

My son could have voted but chose not to. He plans to continue working in Europe and the rest of the world - brexit does not please him, but he'll find ways to deal with it.

And of course I can see why he voted stay, but at least he is one of the sensible ones, finding a way to deal with it, and not bitch about it at every opportunity

As for voting for Brexit age all of the younger people I know voted to stay but a majority of people my age and older voted leave

I may have believed the posts following brexit, that it was only the "Gammon's" ( seriously? )
The older generation that voted out. But its seems that quite a few younger generation also believe the way forward was out.

TBH The whole issue is now very boring, most people have moved on save for a small group ( not only those posting here) wallowing in self pity, because it didn't suit them.

 

[Baloo]

TBH The whole issue is now very boring, most people have moved on save for a small group ( not only those posting here) wallowing in self pity, because it didn't suit them.

I felt like that all through the 70s 80s 90s,2000s and right up until 2014, but people just kept bringing the subject up until they got their way.

 

[LCPete]

I think most most have, there is just a small hard core of people that can't move on.
And still try and find a way to blame everything on Brexit


And of course I can see why he voted stay, but at least he is one of the sensible ones, finding a way to deal with it, and not bitch about it at every opportunity

I may have believed the posts following brexit, that it was only the "Gammon's" ( seriously? )
The older generation that voted out. But its seems that quite a few younger generation also believe the way forward was out.

TBH The whole issue is now very boring, most people have moved on save for a small group ( not only those posting here) wallowing in self pity, because it didn't suit them.

Yes agree we do need to move on and make the best of it, I guess it’s current events and things that are coming out like Farages campaign was financed by the Russians that have brought it back again for me anyway but yes need to forget and move on
It will soon be macro season I’ll be out with the camera as much as I can

It is interesting talking to people about it though my wife voted for leave , she wanted a Norway sort of deal whereby we don’t get involved with the politics but still have free trade and I can understand that but unfortunately that didn’t happen

 

[Cobra]

Yes agree we do need to move on and make the best of it,

TBH I'd forgotten all about it, until the Russian connection was mentioned, just recently.

It will soon be macro season I’ll be out with the camera as much as I can

I've already started in a small way

 

[ancient_mariner]

I think most most have, there is just a small hard core of people that can't move on.
And still try and find a way to blame everything on Brexit

A few weeks back we bought a house in France*, and I've become involved in a forum for English-speaking people living there. If schadenfreude and bitterness were an energy source, some of them they would be able supply a city (there are many normal, healthy and kind people there too). I think there will always be a small group who view this as utterly unforgiveable and a complete betrayal, and will never let the matter go as long as they have breathe.

*It's an investement/holiday home, though with a hope the boy might spend some time there too. Despite the stereotypes, we've actually found the French to be generally kind, warm and generous, and I'm looking foward to getting to know our neighbours a bit.

 

[Retune]

View: https://BANNED/jembartholomew/status/1506335405221765121

‘It wasn’t just a sacking, it was an eviction’: a P&O seafarer tells his story

Ship on Irish Sea route boarded by P&O Ferries-hired security guards and crew told: ‘You’re dismissed’

www.theguardian.com

 

[JonathanRyan]

View: https://BANNED/jembartholomew/status/1506335405221765121

‘It wasn’t just a sacking, it was an eviction’: a P&O seafarer tells his story

Ship on Irish Sea route boarded by P&O Ferries-hired security guards and crew told: ‘You’re dismissed’

www.theguardian.com

I have a first hand account from a friend who was on one of the boats. It was worse than that.

As I said earlier, maybe their only solution was to sack people. But they didn't have to do it like that.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Just watched the parliamentary committee on the news this morning questioning the chief executive about the P&O sackings -- they absolutely pulled him to pieces, it was a delight to watch. The damage P&O have done to their reputation is immense. I certainly won't be sailing with P&O anytime soon as they have taken on agency staff being paid half what the original sailors were paid and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. I would be rather concerned about safety if things are done on the cheap. According to reports, they were gong to replace sailors with Ukrainian and Russian employees -- oops.

 

[nog]

As above the younger generation were setting out the ground rules for their future

. But its seems that quite a few younger generation also believe the way forward was out.

I know for a fact that my son, of the younger generation, voted out, along with many of his peer group.
And that's just a small snap shot of my local area, I'm sure its not an isolated case(s)

Don’t understand above comments as 71% of younger gen voted to remain. My daughter was crying when she heard the result.

 

[Cobra]

Don’t understand above comments as 71% of younger gen voted to remain.

I'm just saying what I know to be fact, from my son and his peer group.
Not what has been reported in the press.

 

[Retune]

We all tend to assume that everyone is like the people we know. None of my friends, only a couple of my colleagues and a family member voted for Brexit, but obviously that wasn't the national picture! There's a clear age split if you ask thousands of people who aren't limited to your personal aquaintances, as in the YouGov link above - a substantial majority of older people voted for Brexit, and a substantial majority of younger people voted for Remain.

 

[Cobra]

We all tend to assume that everyone is like the people we know.

I'm not saying that everyone is like someone we know, just what I know to be fact.
Yes the polls say otherwise, but my comments were in response to the comment that someone made regarding everyone that voted in was the older generation.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Don’t understand above comments as 71% of younger gen voted to remain.

Which also means that 29% (of those that could be bothered to vote - many did not, and might have changed the outcome) voted leave.

 

[cambsno]

Just watched the parliamentary committee on the news this morning questioning the chief executive about the P&O sackings -- they absolutely pulled him to pieces, it was a delight to watch. The damage P&O have done to their reputation is immense. I certainly won't be sailing with P&O anytime soon as they have taken on agency staff being paid half what the original sailors were paid and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. I would be rather concerned about safety if things are done on the cheap. According to reports, they were gong to replace sailors with Ukrainian and Russian employees -- oops.

Fair play he seems to have held his hands up and said they broke the law. More than I was expecting.

 

[Retune]

I'm not saying that everyone is like someone we know, just what I know to be fact.
Yes the polls say otherwise, but my comments were in response to the comment that someone made regarding everyone that voted in was the older generation.

I don't think the polls say otherwise - as Toni says, 29% in that younger age group voted for Leave, and it just happens that you know some of those people (as I know some older Remainers). Nobody should claim that 'everyone' in a particular generation voted one way or the other, though there are clear differences by age group on average. Does any of this matter? Maybe in 20 years, when our political leaders will be drawn from a generation that rejected Brexit by a large margin. Back in the 90s, what we were later to call the pro-Brexit position was a fringe view. Now it's mainstream politics, accepted (more or less enthusiastically) by all parties. I wouldn't bet against another reversal in the medium term, taking us at least as far as EEA membership or a similar status if the rest of Europe will have us.

 

[Retune]

Fair play he seems to have held his hands up and said they broke the law. More than I was expecting.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens to the parent company, DP World. Would anyone be terribly surprised if it's business as usual when it comes to raking it in from their management of the post-Brexit 'Freeports'?

 

[Cobra]

I don't think the polls say otherwise -

But they do,
It was in reference to nogs post when I mentioned the polls ie the polls said that the majority of youngsters voted in.
I think we maybe at cross purposes TBH.

 

[whiteflyer]

Have I got this right?

A transport company makes losses over the last two years.
Two years of a pandemic with huge restrictions on travel

I would have thought the vast amount of business that P&O do is transporting freight lorries across the channel ( hence Operation Brock has been re-introduced due to no P&O sailings)

Yes they have lost most passenger travel due to pandemic but not freight.

 

[nog]

I'm just saying what I know to be fact, from my son and his peer group.
Not what has been reported in the press.

It may be a fact that your son and his peer group voted to leave but they are a pretty small sample size compared with the exit polls- the YouGov poll was in the thousands.
Anyway there is not much point going on about the vote, 3 things that I didn't expect, Brexit, Trump as President and Bojo as PM.
At least Trump has gone, for now anyway

 

[Cobra]

Anyway there is not much point going on about the vote,

But some people just can't drop it, what is it now 6 years on?
Still, I have a forum to run, members to ban and all that ..
So, moving swiftly on to the important stuff