I want to try mirrorless full frame. What should I try?

Matt.

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#1
I’ve been a canon shooter for approx 15yrs and am looking at changing from my current 5dmk2. I normally shoot landscapes and hike a little too.

I’ve got a 7dmk2 and 100-400 mk2 that I’m considering using to help fund a new camera. I don’t use either of these.

Do I just get an Eos R? Or is it worth trying something else?

I’ve got a few EF L lenses so ideally would use them.

I haven’t looked at cameras for years, so know little.

I guess it’s Sony A7r3 or Eos R.
 
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#2
It really depends what you are looking for in the new camera. I wouldn't recommend blindly buying an EOS R just because you have Canon already, especially considering its a different lens system anyway.

I would assess what you value then pick the system based on that. Chances are it wouldn't be the EOS R which is underwhelming considering the competition.
 
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Matt.

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#3
- 90% of my shots are landscapes
- I rarely ever shoot video
- I go to rainy places
- I will treat it like a tool and expect it to survive
- I hike long(ish) distances with my gear
- I print my photos
- I’m big and don’t like tiny cameras


What’s worth trying other than the Eos R and A7r3? Are both ok with my EF lenses to start with?
 
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#4
- 90% of my shots are landscapes
- I rarely ever shoot video
- I go to rainy places
- I will treat it like a tool and expect it to survive
- I hike long(ish) distances with my gear
- I print my photos
- I’m big and don’t like tiny cameras


What’s worth trying other than the Eos R and A7r3? Are both ok with my EF lenses to start with?
If you don't like small cameras you'll need a grip with the Sony otherwise your pinky finger will sit under the camera. The eos r is bigger and imo much nicer in the hand. Your Canon glass will work like native with the adaptor.
 
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#5
I'm big with big hands and the Sony A7 series cameras' grip is too cramped, and there's not enough room between the grip and lens meaning I often catch my knuckles. The Nikon Z7 is the best FF mirrorless camera I've tried ergonomically but I've not tried the Panasonic yet. Best bet is to go and try them out.
 
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#6
Sounds to me like you'd be better to upgrade to the 5DmkIV - what is it that attracts you to mirrorless? If you prefer big cameras you might well be disappointed - unless you wait a while for the Panasonic S1R which will be as big as a Dslr and about the same price as an A7RIII. But then you're going to want to buy into their new lens system, and they are going to be pricier than the camera itself.
 
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#7
The good news is that whatever you choose it'll almost certainly mean quite an improvement in image quality over a 5DII.
 
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#8
Given your investment in Canon glass the RF seems like the obvious option.
Your stumbling block may be weather resistance.
@RedRobin
 
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#10
I think the Nikon Z7 is probably the most suited to your requirements. It has decent ergonomics, a very tough body and very high resolution. The Sonys aren't as suited to bad weather conditions and they are quite small ergonomically.

Although it would be a big upgrade from your 5dii I feel like the EOS R isn't really aimed at you as its more of a hybrid video camera. If you're gunna switch you might as well go for the best IMO.

(Obviously the caveat there is future bodies and systems we don't know about yet)
 
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#11
Another option is to go in cheap with something like a used A7II and adaptor to use existing lenses - give it a try and see if mirrorless gives you what you are expecting and then make your choice from a more informed position?
 
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#12
I think the Nikon Z7 is probably the most suited to your requirements. It has decent ergonomics, a very tough body and very high resolution. The Sonys aren't as suited to bad weather conditions and they are quite small ergonomically.

Although it would be a big upgrade from your 5dii I feel like the EOS R isn't really aimed at you as its more of a hybrid video camera. If you're gunna switch you might as well go for the best IMO.

(Obviously the caveat there is future bodies and systems we don't know about yet)

All these FF ML cameras are 'hybrid' - bit of a marketing buzz word nothing more tbh. They all have similar video features. 30mp is plenty high enough res for most I would imagine too.
 
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#13
I'll probably still be saying this in 10 years time but I would say it might be worth waiting. Sony's system is here now, ready and mature now so if that suits in any form, no need to wait but if not, it feels like we're in the midst of a massive shake up and development is happening very quickly now. Canon already on their second release and lenses starting to arrive, Nikon similar and major firmware development going on. Panasonic about to release interesting looking stuff and we haven't seen whether Sigma might also release an L-mount body too. and of course at the same time, Sony haven't exactly eased back on the gas. I don't know which direction I'd want to jump in in my own circumstances let alone someone else's. @Furtim 's suggestion of a bit of toe dipping might be a good option.
 
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#14
All these FF ML cameras are 'hybrid' - bit of a marketing buzz word nothing more tbh. They all have similar video features. 30mp is plenty high enough res for most I would imagine too.
Yea I get you - however if you could trade off some video features (flippy screen, dual pixel autofocus) for features you will really benefit from (higher MP count, tank-like body), it might be worth it. I know I'd be interested in the Z7 for landscapes if it wasn't 4 grand :)
 
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#15
Nobody has mentioned Olympus yet and I would have dismissed them too if I hadn't tried it on the test and wow. Spec sheets are all very well but until you get one in your hands, it's all a bit moot! I have both Canon and Olympus systems now. The Photo show isn't far away now - you could get hands on with everything. When I went to the Photoshow in 2016, I was convinced I was going to add a Fuji system to my kit bag. We all have our favourites and I don't think there are any poor cameras around these days especially at the price range discussed here. Mike Inkley, who was forced to find a lighter camera after a serious accident, switched to Olympus for his professional work. In a recent talk, he suggested the following: write down what you want, write down your budget, make a list of the cameras that fit, cross out the ones you can't afford and then try them. In the EOS R thread on here, Robin has reported regularly on the R. It's adaptors work brilliantly according to his reviews. Good luck with your search.
 
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#16
Given your investment in Canon glass the RF seems like the obvious option.
Your stumbling block may be weather resistance.
@RedRobin
.... Certainly if you are intending to keep some of your Canon L lenses, it makes better sense to stay with the Canon EOS system but on the other hand, selling all your Canon gear and then buying into a different brand is an option. Although some people do it I would not advise mixing brands of bodies and lenses even if there are adapters. Modern lenses include quite sophisticated electronic wizardy and the camera manufacturers design them to exploit what their own bodies have to offer.

I haven't sufficiently tested my EOS-R in all kinds of weather yet but have left it mounted on a 500mm and tripod in a snow shower while high in the Balkan mountains recently while I took some handheld shots on my 100-400mm +1DX-2. With wildlife you sometimes have to take risks and go for the opportunities which suddenly present themselves. I usually have lens covers which I can pull over the body as well if the rain gets heavy or intense. I friend of mine had to have about £700 of repairs on his 5D-4 due to getting wet and he did NOT drop it in a river! So go figure - There's no telling.

I have never even seen a Nikon Z in real life and so cannot offer an opinion about it. I really enjoy shooting with my EOS-R and to my great surprise I occasionally choose it over my 1DX-2. I previously had an EOS-M5 but did not enjoy its small size which is primarily why I am not attracted to the Sony. The M5 image quality was excellent though.

Regarding mirrorless technology it is still early days but I hated the early Electronic Viewfinders but the EOS-R's EVF and Vario-angle screen is superb. I love being able to see the histogram in the EVF (an option you can disable if you prefer).

If I were you I would wander into a camera shop and have a feel - Cameras are very tactile tools. But remember that there is no such thing as the perfect camera, although a mirrorless version of the 1DX might come pretty close!

Another option is to hire before you buy. @StewartR has a hire company.

HTH
 
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#17
The first question I would ask is WHY you want to change? I've read your posts a couple of times, but haven't seen anything in there that tells me what's driving the need.

I'm in the middle of changing systems, but it's not because one is mirrorless and the other not - instead I'm changing because the new system offers eye-AF, better focussing generally and a flip-out rear screen - it just happens that the new system is mirrorless.

You mention hiking and landscapes, and being a big chap. Is your present system's weight a problem? If you're looking for lighter gear then it's almost inevitable that lighter=smaller, and you'll need to be sure that it's a compromise you're happy with. OTOH if you're a tripod-shooter then camera size should be mostly irrelevant, since the tripod will be holding the camera and not you.

When it comes to the various mirrorless cameras, make sure you're happy with whatever sensor size is inside the body you're looking at. It's not just about noise, but each sensor size has its own behaviour in terms of depth of field, appearance after magnification for printing etc. I went from APS-C to full frame just over 3 years ago, and would not want to return because *for me* there's something special about a larger starting image, but other people feel quite differently.
 

nandbytes

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#18
- 90% of my shots are landscapes
At risk of sounding like a broken record not canon! Even APS-C body with Sony sensor will be better.

If you want something robust skip both EOS R and Sony. May be Nikon or Fuji APS-C will be better. You can adapt EF lenses on to Fuji (though focal lengths may not match up for you) and there will be a adapter for Nikon Z eventually.

But all these adapters aren't weathersealed so it's pointless using them anyway since you want weatherseal. But canon EF to RF is weathersealed. So look into buying native lenses or buying another EF body which I would not suggest for someone who shoots 90% landscapes.
 
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#19
At risk of sounding like a broken record not canon! Even APS-C body with Sony sensor will be better.

If you want something robust skip both EOS R and Sony. May be Nikon or Fuji APS-C will be better.
Fuji for landscapes? :eek: ;)
 
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#23
The first question I would ask is WHY you want to change? I've read your posts a couple of times, but haven't seen anything in there that tells me what's driving the need.
This^
And I think a 5dIV is a better bang for buck if you’re happy with a dslr
 
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#24
What does fuji lack? Sharpness? You can compensate for that in exactly the same way :p
I'm not going to open up the Fuji can of worms again ;)
 
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#25
This^
And I think a 5dIV is a better bang for buck if you’re happy with a dslr
5D4 is the obvious and sensible upgrade option from a 5D2.

But it's not mirrorless and may not turn off the GAS.

Edit: I'm in a similar position with a 5D2 (that still delivers sterling service TBH). Was going to get a 5D4, which is a better option than an EOS-R IMHO, but I'm going to wait until next year. The mirrorless market is evolving fast... :)
 
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#26
5D4 is the obvious and sensible upgrade option from a 5D2.

But it's not mirrorless and may not turn off the GAS.

Edit: I'm in a similar position with a 5D2 (that still delivers sterling service TBH). Was going to get a 5D4, which is a better option than an EOS-R IMHO, but I'm going to wait until next year. The mirrorless market is evolving fast... :)
See my post #6, pretty much same as what you say - OP hasn't answered that question yet though
 
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#27
Was going to get a 5D4, which is a better option than an EOS-R IMHO, but I'm going to wait until next year. The mirrorless market is evolving fast... :)
I think things may move quite quickly now in mirrorless and maybe what we've seen recently particularly from Sony (eye AF and the like) is just the beginning but how long to wait? There'll always be something better next year or coming just beyond the horizon but do we really need to we wait for these things?

On the other hand if in no rush why not wait...

That might not help but I needed to say it :D
 
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#28
I think things may move quite quickly now in mirrorless and maybe what we've seen recently particularly from Sony (eye AF and the like) is just the beginning but how long to wait? There'll always be something better next year or coming just beyond the horizon but do we really need to we wait for these things?

On the other hand if in no rush why not wait...

That might not help but I needed to say it :D
If the OP has been happy enough with the 5DII till now, pretty sure any current camera will suffice, it' going to be a bit of a learning curve as is to switch to ML. No need to wait, I'd agree on that. There will always be newer tech on the way but as is I don't see much else that people could be craving from gear. For a while yet most improvements are going to be video related I think
 
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#29
If the OP has been happy enough with the 5DII till now, pretty sure any current camera will suffice, it' going to be a bit of a learning curve as is to switch to ML. No need to wait, I'd agree on that. There will always be newer tech on the way but as is I don't see much else that people could be craving from gear. For a while yet most improvements are going to be video related I think
I don't see how DSLR's could do the fancy focus things that mirrorless are doing such as face/eye detect except in live view and the old kit is further limited by having the focus points clustered around the centre of the frame whereas mirrorless will focus over the vast majority of the frame meaning there's no need to focus and recompose or use a focus point in the central area and crop the frame to the required composition later. IMO these are real benefits for stills shooters and that's before we get into the advantages of WYSIWYG, in view histogram and all of the other stuff and the advantages for those who want to use manual focus lenses.
 
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#30
I don't see how DSLR's could do the fancy focus things that mirrorless are doing such as face/eye detect except in live view and the old kit is further limited by having the focus points clustered around the centre of the frame whereas mirrorless will focus over the vast majority of the frame meaning there's no need to focus and recompose or use a focus point in the central area and crop the frame to the required composition later. IMO these are real benefits for stills shooters and that's before we get into the advantages of WYSIWYG, in view histogram and all of the other stuff and the advantages for those who want to use manual focus lenses.
I'm comparing to the current mirrorless crop, should have emphasised maybe ;)
 
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#32
Even earlier mirrorless stuff does things for stills shooters that DSLR's either can't do or can only do in a hobbled or clumsy way.
Yup, agree there too. There's only so far back that I would buy into now, and I don't think I'd ever go mirrored again unless it was just as a side kit.
 
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#33
I have owned both the 5D-4 and the EOS-R and in my opinion there is no discernable difference in the image quality offered. The 5D-4 is supposed to be tougher but after a close friend's experience (described earlier) I am no longer so sure. I am not inclined to physically abuse cameras no matter how tough or waterproof their makers claim.

I am lucky in that I have the best of both worlds - A D-SLR and a mirrorless and can choose which better suits my mission. Mirrorless technology is advancing quickly and sooner or later most photographers will want to buy into it.
 
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Matt.

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#34
Part of the reason to get a new body is the fact the 5dmk2 is old. At some point it will stop being reliable and I’d prefer that wasn’t when I’m in the middle of nowhere hiking in the mountains.

Yes I’d like a lighter and smaller body than the 5dmk4. Canon have such good ergonomics though and they’re very natural for me to use without thinking about. When I say I’m big, I’m just tall with biggish hands!

The 5dmk4 is expensive and the R is probably more affordable.

In some ways I’d just like to try the new tech. I have a 7dmk2 and 100-400mk2 sat around doing nothing, so why not try a new body?

Id also say I often buy used lenses for trips and sell when I’m back. This is easy with canon as there’s a lot of used affordable gear. If I fully switch to Sony (for example), I’d lose this option.
 

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#36
Part of the reason to get a new body is the fact the 5dmk2 is old. At some point it will stop being reliable and I’d prefer that wasn’t when I’m in the middle of nowhere hiking in the mountains.

Yes I’d like a lighter and smaller body than the 5dmk4. Canon have such good ergonomics though and they’re very natural for me to use without thinking about. When I say I’m big, I’m just tall with biggish hands!

The 5dmk4 is expensive and the R is probably more affordable.

In some ways I’d just like to try the new tech. I have a 7dmk2 and 100-400mk2 sat around doing nothing, so why not try a new body?

Id also say I often buy used lenses for trips and sell when I’m back. This is easy with canon as there’s a lot of used affordable gear. If I fully switch to Sony (for example), I’d lose this option.
I’d add the 6dII to the R and Sony based on that.
 
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#37
Part of the reason to get a new body is the fact the 5dmk2 is old. At some point it will stop being reliable and I’d prefer that wasn’t when I’m in the middle of nowhere hiking in the mountains.

Yes I’d like a lighter and smaller body than the 5dmk4. Canon have such good ergonomics though and they’re very natural for me to use without thinking about. When I say I’m big, I’m just tall with biggish hands!

The 5dmk4 is expensive and the R is probably more affordable.

In some ways I’d just like to try the new tech. I have a 7dmk2 and 100-400mk2 sat around doing nothing, so why not try a new body?

Id also say I often buy used lenses for trips and sell when I’m back. This is easy with canon as there’s a lot of used affordable gear. If I fully switch to Sony (for example), I’d lose this option.

It's hard to argue against the R in this case, like you say 'why not?' when you have gear laying about unused. May as well have something new that might spur you into getting out more to shoot.
 
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Matt.

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#38
I’d add the 6dII to the R and Sony based on that.
6dmk2? It’s too plasticky and the controls are more 80d than 5d.

I’ll go and try an R and Sony. Definitely sounds worth having a play. My main concern with Sony is ergonomics and weathersealing.
 
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Matt.

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#39
It's hard to argue against the R in this case, like you say 'why not?' when you have gear laying about unused. May as well have something new that might spur you into getting out more to shoot.
Yes, I’m coming around to this idea.

Canon will release a “pro” version that will be £1k more in the next year, that’s too rich for me anyway.
 

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#40
6dmk2? It’s too plasticky and the controls are more 80d than 5d.
That’s the downside of small and light - I wouldn’t personally describe it as plasticky, but then I think the later 5d’s border on the ‘hefty’
 
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