I want to try mirrorless full frame. What should I try?

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Keith
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#41
I would actually choose the RP over the 6DII now, even though the latter can be had for about £300 less. The AF points clustered in the center is one major turn off, I also just prefer evf nowadays. But the RP might not suit the OP, it's pretty small and light but in terms of photography it does pretty much the same job as it's bigger brother.
 
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Alf
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#42
Find somewhere to try them out and remember to take memry cards to get some images
 
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Matt.

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#43
I went and tried the Eos R, Eos RP and Sony A7r3.

My hands don’t fit the Sony. There’s no space between lens and grip and it wouldn’t work for me. I can’t see how I’d use it with gloves for example.

The RP is interesting but I’m concerned by lack of weather sealing.

The R is best for ergonomics for me. However, it’s got to be easily £500 overpriced right now. I don’t understand how it doesn’t even have the wheel on the back? It’s like an 6D at 5D pricing.

So overall I’m a little disappointed. Maybe if the R drops in price I’d go for it. Right now doesn’t quite seem like the time though.
 
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#46
I read something about a Pro version coming out later this year... might just be a rumour tho. Something will come out before the Olympics tho; it's Canon's pattern.
 
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#47
I went and tried the Eos R, Eos RP and Sony A7r3.

My hands don’t fit the Sony. There’s no space between lens and grip and it wouldn’t work for me. I can’t see how I’d use it with gloves for example.

The RP is interesting but I’m concerned by lack of weather sealing.

The R is best for ergonomics for me. However, it’s got to be easily £500 overpriced right now. I don’t understand how it doesn’t even have the wheel on the back? It’s like an 6D at 5D pricing.

So overall I’m a little disappointed. Maybe if the R drops in price I’d go for it. Right now doesn’t quite seem like the time though.
If you've been happy with the 5DII all this time, why don't you consider upgrading to the 5DIV, the 6DII or even 5DIII? I upgraded from the 5DII to the 5DIII and it's a worthwhile upgrade - the AF system is way better with much better AF point coverage throughout the frame; if you have the money a 5DIV is bound to be even better. The good thing about the general switch to mirrorless is that there are now some -relative- bargains to be had in the classic Canon EOS DSLR camera and lens line-up.

I have to be honest though I rarely use the 5DIII these days because I mainly use Olympus m4/3 now. For me, this is because of the reduced size and weight and the excellent m4/3 lens line-up. I have toyed with selling my Canon stuff or switching to Sony for full frame but for me the switch is too expensive given that most of the time, I tend to leave heavy camera equipment at home - I had a Canon 100-400 at one point and it never left the house. I also have a few Canon EOS film SLR's that I don't want to leave "orphaned", so I've decided to hold on to my EOS DSLR kit for now.
 
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#48
I read something about a Pro version coming out later this year... might just be a rumour tho. Something will come out before the Olympics tho; it's Canon's pattern.
.... There have been rumours of an EOS-R Pro body for some time and even strongly hinted at by Canon officials in interviews. It's going to happen but we can only speculate about when although pre Olympics makes a lot of marketing sense. If it's a mirrorless equivalent of the 1DX it will not be cheap!
 
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#49
.... There have been rumours of an EOS-R Pro body for some time and even strongly hinted at by Canon officials in interviews. It's going to happen but we can only speculate about when although pre Olympics makes a lot of marketing sense. If it's a mirrorless equivalent of the 1DX it will not be cheap!
70mp + IBIS, end of this year apparently
 
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#52
70mp + IBIS, end of this year apparently
.... Yes, Canon have said they will introduce IBIS (or at least their version of it, if that makes sense) but Canon's history tells us that this won't be launched until they feel it's ready. Releases of several RF lenses which don't have IS logically suggest that Canon's IBIS is coming.

As for 70Mp I'm not at all sure that would be practical in terms of dealing with the resulting images on the average computer. Or at least not for a while. But technology never stands still and I may be out of touch regarding this.

Which mirrorless camera currently offers the highest Mp files and what is that value? - Is it the Sony at 42Mp?

I think that the Canon 5DS-R offers the highest Mp D-SLR currently at 50Mp.

Just as a footnote, my Canon EOS-R consistently records RAW files at 36Mp but the official resolution is stated as 30Mp. My flagship 1DX-2 shoots only 20-something Mp files but I'll be damned if I can tell the image quality difference with the naked eye between it and my EOS-R. So Mp isn't everything.

Personally I make my image quality judgements based on my naked eye and not according to spec sheets or complicated bench tests.
 
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nandbytes

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#53
.... Yes, Canon have said they will introduce IBIS (or at least their version of it, if that makes sense) but Canon's history tells us that this won't be launched until they feel it's ready. Releases of several RF lenses which don't have IS logically suggest that Canon's IBIS is coming.

As for 70Mp I'm not at all sure that would be practical in terms of dealing with the resulting images on the average computer. Or at least not for a while. But technology never stands still and I may be out of touch regarding this.

Which mirrorless camera currently offers the highest Mp files and what is that value? - Is it the Sony at 42Mp?

I think that the Canon 5DS-R offers the highest Mp D-SLR currently at 50Mp.

Just as a footnote, my Canon EOS-R consistently records RAW files at 36Mp but the official resolution is stated as 30Mp. My flagship 1DX-2 shoots only 20-something Mp files but I'll be damned if I can tell the image quality difference with the naked eye between it and my EOS-R. So Mp isn't everything.

Personally I make my image quality judgements based on my naked eye and not according to spec sheets or complicated bench tests.
Nikon Z7 has 46mp and the new Panasonic S1R will have 47mp.
Megapixels aren't everything for sure but it's certainly useful especially when shooting with good lenses.
 
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#55
Nikon Z7 has 46mp and the new Panasonic S1R will have 47mp.
Megapixels aren't everything for sure but it's certainly useful especially when shooting with good lenses.
Nikon also have a very good lossless compression which helps keep the 45.7mp files relatively small, roughly 55-60mb 14bit RAW vs 80-90mb of the A7RIII. Both allow compressed files which are smaller but with some loss of quality.
 

nandbytes

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#56
Nikon also have a very good lossless compression which helps keep the 45.7mp files relatively small, roughly 55-60mb 14bit RAW vs 80-90mb of the A7RIII. Both allow compressed files which are smaller but with some loss of quality.
The loss of quality is a non-issue for 99.9% of the time. Have been shooting it for a long time and I think I remember two shots in last 6 years that it affected. Both times it could have been avoided just by shooting at a stop or two higher ISO (so some amount of user error there). It's one of those internet hyperboles (I know hard to imagine such a thing on the internet ;) )

But I agree that sony should really provide lossless compression. It's not that hard is it for a company that claims to be so innovative :p
 
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#57
The loss of quality is a non-issue for 99.9% of the time. Have been shooting it for a long time and I think I remember two shots in last 6 years that it affected. Both times it could have been avoided just by shooting at a stop or two higher ISO (so some amount of user error there). It's one of those internet hyperboles (I know hard to imagine such a thing on the internet ;) )

But I agree that sony should really provide lossless compression. It's not that hard is it for a company that claims to be so innovative :p
TBH I've seen differences in highlights using compressed files, but that's mainly high dynamic landscapes such as sunsets. When shooting using continuous drive (sports and wildlife) I've started using 12bit rather than 14bit to reduce file size, I've done several tests and not been able to see a difference. Whether I would shooting landscapes I don't know.
 

nandbytes

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#58
TBH I've seen differences in highlights using compressed files, but that's mainly high dynamic landscapes such as sunsets. When shooting using continuous drive (sports and wildlife) I've started using 12bit rather than 14bit to reduce file size, I've done several tests and not been able to see a difference. Whether I would shooting landscapes I don't know.
Yep landscapes is one place I use uncompressed RAW. But before the option was available it used compressed with no real issues tbh. Even with high dynamic situations with 3-4 stops of difference.
Of course Nikon and sony compression would be different and give a difference in quality.
 
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David
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#60
.
As for 70Mp I'm not at all sure that would be practical in terms of dealing with the resulting images on the average computer. Or at least not for a while. But technology never stands still and I may be out of touch regarding this.

Which mirrorless camera currently offers the highest Mp files and what is that value? - Is it the Sony at 42Mp?.
Nikon Z7 has 46mp and the new Panasonic S1R will have 47mp.
Megapixels aren't everything for sure but it's certainly useful especially when shooting with good lenses.
Fujifilm GFX are 51.4Mp (and mirrorless), I have one on loan at the moment and even though I have a quick computer (fast processor, plenty of RAM and fast graphics card), processing 50Mpx images is not quick, especially panorama stitching and bracket shot processing!

The biggest problem with high density mega pixel sensors, is that you have to up the shutter speed to keep the image sharp, especially when hand held (and if this means increasing ISO, then you are losing dynamic range) - What we want is better quality pixels, not more of them!
 
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Trev
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#61
The biggest problem with high density mega pixel sensors, is that you have to up the shutter speed to keep the image sharp, especially when hand held (and if this means increasing ISO, then you are losing dynamic range) - What we want is better quality pixels, not more of them![/QUOTE]

Quite agree. Having used the Sony A7R3 (43Mp) and struggled with sharp images I am now using the Nikon Z6 (24Mp) which I find suits me to a T...
 
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#62
The biggest problem with high density mega pixel sensors, is that you have to up the shutter speed to keep the image sharp, especially when hand held (and if this means increasing ISO, then you are losing dynamic range) - What we want is better quality pixels, not more of them!
I've just read something similar on another thread and I think it's only true if you're looking at high resolution pictures closely simply because higher res pictures reveal issues with focus or camera or subject movement which are hidden in lower res pictures because they can't show the issues. Down size the high res picture to match the low res one and they should be the same.

If you want a massive picture you can pixel peep then of course you're going to have to be careful as the high res will simply show any issues which are hidden in a lower res shot.

You could well ask "well what's the point of high res if you're going to downsize" and I see two advantages.

Firstly they allow you to capture the higher res picture (so you can print big or crop like a mad thing) which you can then downsize for final print/viewing thus hiding any issues which the high res picture may reveal (but the low res kit can't reveal) and secondly they allow you to capture the big high resolution picture when you have the opportunity to shoot to get the best out of the kit.
 

nandbytes

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#63
Fujifilm GFX are 51.4Mp (and mirrorless), I have one on loan at the moment and even though I have a quick computer (fast processor, plenty of RAM and fast graphics card), processing 50Mpx images is not quick, especially panorama stitching and bracket shot processing!

The biggest problem with high density mega pixel sensors, is that you have to up the shutter speed to keep the image sharp, especially when hand held (and if this means increasing ISO, then you are losing dynamic range) - What we want is better quality pixels, not more of them!
You can always downsize it to a smaller number of megapixels for the same or better result than you would have with a lower MP body. The quality of pixels aren't much different between A7III and A7RIII. I believe Z7 is actually slightly better than Z6. So the whole less pixels more quality doesn't really apply.

More resolution will always show more faults inc. shake. As mentioned above you can always downsize, you don't necessarily need to increase shutter speed.
 
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#64
The biggest problem with high density mega pixel sensors, is that you have to up the shutter speed to keep the image sharp, especially when hand held (and if this means increasing ISO, then you are losing dynamic range) - What we want is better quality pixels, not more of them!
[/QUOTE]
I was worried about this upgrading from the D750 to D850 but it's proven not to be the case for me, I've not found that I have to use any faster shutter speeds (y)
 
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Tony
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#65
I've not really looked into the mirrorless thing yet but I'd like to know how it would take to getting wet and cold.
I'm with the op regards wanting to save weight and space. Dragging a gripped 5d4 around with a big lens is tiresome.
 
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#67
Higher resolution will naturally show up any deficiencies with technique - you just have to decide where your acceptable limit is. I recall a conversation with a wedding photographer once about how 'recent' full frame digital cameras were so much harder to use because of the resolution - she was referring to 24mp cameras at the time. Now 24mp sensors are pretty much the standard for general shooting, and until my A7III arrived I never had or especially felt the need for any kind of image stabilisation.
 
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