If you had £1200 to start fresh, mostly wildlife.

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As the title states, a hypothetical question to get some ideas. I'm realising that photography is becoming a big hobby to me, but I can't afford to splash a lot of cash, so I'll need to save up for a year or so. The £1200 assumes I sell my current two lenses (both DX Nikon) which I could probably do for next to no loss. I'm assuming my D3300 wouldn't be worth much, but I didn't pay much so that's fine. No brand loyalty, I just want a camera that can handle mostly wildlife (my current constraints primarily ISO performance, struggling to keep high shutter speeds without huge noise and loss of detail. Also I suspect AF performance isn't great, although it's the best I've ever had so don't know what I'm missing) but also do a bit of landscape/portrait/macro etc. Open to DSLR or ML. Crop sensor or FF. Prefer to buy used if it means higher end kit.

I know that doesn't leave a lot of budget for a serious lens, but I was looking at something like a Sigma 150-600mm C (seems possible to pick up for £550-£600)
As far as cameras, this is what confuses me.

The used prices on an A7 looks very tempting, and I'm sure it'd be a massive upgrade for me, but will it handle wildlife and BIF? I'm not too bothered with ergonomics as I'm happy to adapt and my hands aren't that big. What's the Sigma like with an adapter to fit Sony? This would also leave me a little left over for a prime or two to complement the big lens.

I don't know enough about the CaNikon offerings to know if they'd be a suitable upgrade in this price range? I don't tend to use the bells and whistles like WiFi or Bluetooth, I just want good AF and low light performance.

Sorry for all the questions, but when the time comes I'd like to make an informed decision, so I thought I'd try to pick the collective brains of TP.

Thanks for reading.
 
I recently saw a decent Canon 1D MkIV for 500 quid, that wouldn't be a bad start for wildlife if it were me buying
 
What are your current lenses? £1200 isn’t a huge budget for a wildlife lens, shorter landscape lens and a camera. One option would be just to get the wildlife lens and camera now for the £1200 budget and add a wider lens at a later date. It would mean your budget is spread less.

Options I can think of are:

Nikon D7100
Nikon 300mm f4 af-s D or something like the sigma your talking about.
A kit lens for landscapes as a stop gap.

With a £1200 budget I’d probably stay looking at crop sensors unless your happy to look at quite a bit older tech-on Nikon that’s the likes of the D700 (in its day an amazing wildlife camera).

Sony do the A6400 which is supposed to have pretty good AF. The issue with mirrorless, and most other mirrorless manufacturers, is the price of lenses is astronomical. It could be worth looking at Olympus M43’s as the micro four 3rds cropped sensors are a 2x crop factor. That could be great for wildlife. I’m not knowledgeable on Olympus so someone else would need to help you there.
 
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Oh no, here we go again........:LOL:

I believe the answer should be based on personal experience with evidence to back it up.

In my opinion, for less than your £1200 a Nikon D7200 and Sigma 150-600c has to be very hard to beat for the money.

The D7200 is good for ISO 10,000 plus, obviously a little knowledge in pp'ing is a big help

The sigma 150-600c has to be the best value for money lens on the market, a capable lens for very little money, plenty of reach at 600mm (y)

Why do I recommend this set up? I used it for 2 1/2 years and I've been amazed by the quality for the money. i still use the lens but recently bought a D500 due to GAS :rolleyes:

I won't post any shots, but if you want to see some ask, happy to post some at ISO 10,000 and above (y)
 
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In my opinion, for less than your £1200 a Nikon D7200 and Sigma 150-600c has to be very hard to beat for the money.

:agree:

A very capable outfit for wildlife within your budget
 
Olympus M43’s as the micro four 3rds cropped sensors are a 2x crop factor. That could be great for wildlife. I’m not knowledgeable on Olympus so someone else would need to help you there.


As Rob has said, M43 is a very overlooked system, I recently made the switch and don't intend going back, I did try Fuji but found it way to frustrating, setting up every time I used it, so looked for another Mirrorless system and the Olympus is probably never going to be beaten, the x2 crop wins for me, as I do some aircraft photography still so my 40-150f2.8 on a 1,4tc becomes a 420mmf4 which is very capable of showing some of the very expensive lenses the door, the only downside to Olympus M43 is the cost of the cost of the pro series lenses, but the M.Zuiko lenses are top notch quality and don't break the bank, I have a 45f1.8 which using the x2 crop is a belter of a 90mm portrait lens for under £300, add a 12-50f3.5 and you have a perfect walkabout 24-100 for less than £200 used, do some research like I did and you may be surprised at what Olympus has to offer, some lenses like the 75-300 for example, 150-600 for £250, and the E-M1 MK1 is very well regarded and wont break the bank either, I use both the E-M1 and the E-M1 II and love this system for its size, cost and its quirkiness.
 
I used a Nikon D7000 and sigma 150-600mm for a fee years, and had some great results. The 7200 is even better.
As has been said, hard to beat at the price.
I now use an M43 Panasonic G80 and 100-400mm for wildlife.
It too is great, and a lot lighter.
 
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Oh no, here we go again........:LOL:

I believe the answer should be based on personal experience with evidence to back it up.

In my opinion, for less than your £1200 a Nikon D7200 and Sigma 150-600c has to be very hard to beat for the money.

The D7200 is good for ISO 10,000 plus, obviously a little knowledge in pp'ing is a big help

The sigma 150-600c has to be the best value for money lens on the market, a capable lens for very little money, plenty of reach at 600mm (y)

Why do I recommend this set up? I used it for 2 1/2 years and I've been amazed by the quality for the money. i still use the lens but recently bought a D500 due to GAS :rolleyes:

I won't post any shots, but if you want to see some ask, happy to post some at ISO 10,000 and above (y)
Its been a while since I had a D7100 and D7200, if the the D7200 is within budget its better choice over the D7100 (y). On the D7100/D7200 I wasn't too happy going over ISO3200 as I often out early when the light was poor. If the light was good I was always happy to bump the ISO up as higher ISO in good light was pretty good.
 
Sorry, I'll reply properly after work, but just quickly: I currently have a sigma 17-50 f2.8 and nikon 70-300 vr2 (dx version) and would plan to sell both or either to fund new purchases. Happy to have just a body and long lens to start if need be as I use the long lens %90 currently. Thanks
 
Within that budget, you might be able to get, a used Nikon D500 and Sigma 150 - 600 C. Wonderful combination.
 
You probably don't have enough to go full frame and your current lenses are pretty good for DX. I'd go D7200 (I've got one) and the bigger lens. Or D7500, which are currently going pretty cheap. The 7200 has the same sensor as your D3300 but more adjustments and maybe better noise handling. I'd get the bigger lens first and try it with your current camera. I'd also keep the D3300 as they are nice, light cameras and stick a kit lens on it.
 
Wildlife photography especially small birds and mammals will always be a compromise for your budget.
Have a look at some of the forums with those subjects and see what people are using.
I use m4/3, but no idea what the long lenses are like, something like the Olympus 300mm will no doubt be expensive though

If it were me reckon I would go with the Canon 1D MkIV I mentioned earlier and possibly something like the 300mm f/4 L is
With the small crop factor that's giving you close on 400mm in FF terms and stabilisation too
 
I've read through all the replies, but it would be a jumble to reply to them all individually. Thank you all for your advice! So far the best looking ones to me are either a d500 or d7500 for a body, and the Sigma 150-600mm. The benefit being I could buy the lens first and use it on my d3300 while I save for the body, and maybe keep my other lenses (if money allows) as walkarounds.

Will do more research on the m4/3rds stuff, it seems interesting but the sensor size worries me for low light and if I wanted to try astro or anything. That being said, I know very little about it so it may not be a problem.

Thanks again everyone.
 
D7500 has much of the D500 for a fraction of the price, your budget could get a new D7500 (grey) and a Sigma 150-600C
 
So you’ve mentioned noise being an issue, therefore I’d suggest a used D750 and Sigma/Tamron 150-600mm.
 
Seems like I'd really be stretching my budget, would the 750 handle low light significantly better than the 7500?
So you’ve mentioned noise being an issue, therefore I’d suggest a used D750 and Sigma/Tamron 150-600mm.
 
p.s. RX10iv can be had for £1K from camera jungle.

Then spend the remainder saving on topaz DeNoise AI which does an amazing job.
 
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Yes please, I'd love some samples! Thanks
Oh no, here we go again........[emoji38]

I believe the answer should be based on personal experience with evidence to back it up.

In my opinion, for less than your £1200 a Nikon D7200 and Sigma 150-600c has to be very hard to beat for the money.

The D7200 is good for ISO 10,000 plus, obviously a little knowledge in pp'ing is a big help

The sigma 150-600c has to be the best value for money lens on the market, a capable lens for very little money, plenty of reach at 600mm (y)

Why do I recommend this set up? I used it for 2 1/2 years and I've been amazed by the quality for the money. i still use the lens but recently bought a D500 due to GAS :rolleyes:

I won't post any shots, but if you want to see some ask, happy to post some at ISO 10,000 and above (y)
 
Looks like a cool bit of kit, but I don't think i like the lack of flexibility or ability to change with a fixed lens. Thanks though!
p.s. RX10iv can be had for £1K from camera jungle.

Then spend the remainder saving on topaz DeNoise AI which does an amazing job.
 
Looks like a cool bit of kit, but I don't think i like the lack of flexibility or ability to change with a fixed lens. Thanks though!
Well it does cover you pretty well from 24-600mm ;)
 
You either improve the low light performance with wider aperture (expensive, larger, heavier) lenses or go FF. And depending on the conditions you normally take pics in, FF and wider aperture lenses may both be needed. A move to FF may need longer focal length lenses to get a similar field of view to the lenses you may be used to.

If staying with a crop sensor camera the D500 is arguably the best there is, and possibly ever for a DSLR. High ISO noise is probably the best it can be with the current 20 - 24mp APS-C (Sony) sensors.

The 153 point AF of the D500 is a step up over the 51 point AF of the other Nikon DX cameras. The coverage of the frame in the D500 is a big difference too. 8fps v 10fps is a benefit, as is the larger buffer, 20 seconds @ 10 fps v just over 6 seconds @ 8fps. Now some may say they never do a burst for that many seconds, which is probably right for most people, and the same as me, but I occasionally do a lot of shorter bursts one after another, and have never had the D500's buffer stop me from taking any pictures. :)

Adapted lenses generally don't work as well as native lenses when fast focusing is needed. And focusing is a combination of camera and lens.

Micro 4/3 sensors should give a worse high ISO performance compared to APS-C, as APS-C should give worse high ISO performance compared to FF sensors. That is sensors of a similar vintage. ;) Go back too far and as well a smaller difference in high ISO performance compared to current APS-C sensors and FF, you may also take a hit in resolution too.

Early FF mirrorless may not have the best AF. And the EVF lag of mirrorless may affect subject tracking.

It is a complicated hypothetical you have there. ;)
 
The smaller 1" sensor of the RX10IV , smaller than even M4/3, may not give the best high ISO performance. ;)

Well it's f4 at 600mm which will help. Also the sigma 150-600mm on APS-C isn't exactly going to break any high ISO performance records.

Also that's why I suggested spending some of the saved money in topaz DeNoise software which is actually rather good.

p.s. not saying this is the best option or anything, just thinking slightly outside the box within the given budget :)
 
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Seems like I'd really be stretching my budget, would the 750 handle low light significantly better than the 7500?
Should be able to get a used D750 and used Sigma contemporary 150-600mm or used Tamron 150-600mm gen 1 within budget.

FF will usually offer you a stop or more better noise performance than a similar age crop sensor, so yes the D750 should yield noticeably cleaner images at high iso.
 
I've read through all the replies, but it would be a jumble to reply to them all individually. Thank you all for your advice! So far the best looking ones to me are either a d500 or d7500 for a body, and the Sigma 150-600mm. The benefit being I could buy the lens first and use it on my d3300 while I save for the body, and maybe keep my other lenses (if money allows) as walkarounds.

Will do more research on the m4/3rds stuff, it seems interesting but the sensor size worries me for low light and if I wanted to try astro or anything. That being said, I know very little about it so it may not be a problem.

Thanks again everyone.

We went for a walk around Blacktoft sands today, drew a blank photography wise, dull grey but bright sky, couldn't work out what settings were needed, and to be honest it didnt matter as all the birds were way out of reach of the usual birding lenses, here's a massive crop from the 40-150 with 1.4tc


bird by danger_mouse1964, on Flickr
 
I wouldn't bother with a DSLR - I think once you try miriness with the EVF you wouldn't go back. You could squeeze in a Canon RP and 70-300 IS for that budget, if you look carefully! Or some longer lens. I had the RP for a while and loved it, only upgraded to the R just in case I needed (read - NEVER NEEDED!) the extra FPS and bigger viewfinder. I wouldn't buy a DSLR again, personally, unless it was to collect!
 
I had wondered about that stickytape, but i thought I'd get more for my money with a dslr in terms of focus and low light performance. Can the RP keep up with a d500 in those aspects?
 
I had wondered about that stickytape, but i thought I'd get more for my money with a dslr in terms of focus and low light performance. Can the RP keep up with a d500 in those aspects?
I very much doubt it regarding AF, the only mirrorless I’m aware of that can match (actually beat) the D500 in AF is the Sony A9/A9-II. The problem with the Canon FF mirrorless is that native lenses are very expensive. Whilst you can use adapted lenses it’s not ideal. If you have some old canon lenses already then it could be worthwhile, but I personally wouldn’t invest into a new system knowing I’d have to use adapted lenses. For that reason I wouldn’t recommend the Nikon Z6/Z7 despite owning one myself.

The D500 is a great wildlife camera, I’d choose this over the 7D2 every day of the week.
 
I had wondered about that stickytape, but i thought I'd get more for my money with a dslr in terms of focus and low light performance. Can the RP keep up with a d500 in those aspects?

I'm pretty sure it won't keep up with the Nikon D500 - but it did work fine for me in the summer when I got luck with some local peregrines. In flight the RP was fine, probably get more with a D500 but it depends. Of course its up to you, but I really have fallen for the EVF way of life, offers unrivaled details especially if you don't have incredible visions.

Regards adapted lens, they work perfectly so wouldn't worry about that. Using a 20 year old Canon 100-400 is brilliant, plus a Canon 200 2.8 which is from the late 80s I believe. Unlike the Nikon adapters which are extremely limiting, the Canon R adapter enables full functionality with every Canon fit EF lens.
 
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