and please use their services
As an ex pro i have shot thing just for the money,why because bills have to be paid,i enjoyed being in front of a camera and most of all it paid for the thing i do like to shoot
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That's already been mentioned and replied to in this thread. I am fine, thank you.
As an ex pro i have shot thing just for the money,why because bills have to be paid,i enjoyed being in front of a camera and most of all it paid for the thing i do like to shoot
I don't have a problem with that, but I am in the fortunate position where my bills are paid through my day job and I can build this how I want to, and how I want to is by shooting the things that I love. I truly believe that by shooting what you love, it will be reflected in the images that you produce. It may sound idealistic and unrealistic to some, but that;s where I am right now. If something happened to the day job, perhaps my outlook would change.
That's already been mentioned and replied to in this thread. I am fine, thank you.
I don't have a problem with that, but I am in the fortunate position where my bills are paid through my day job and I can build this how I want to, and how I want to is by shooting the things that I love. I truly believe that by shooting what you love, it will be reflected in the images that you produce. It may sound idealistic and unrealistic to some, but that;s where I am right now. If something happened to the day job, perhaps my outlook would change.
I guess i was lucky i have had a lot of crappy day jobs,photographer was a way out of that for a while with for me
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Agree 100%, lost my mojo completely this year, down to depression probably
My apologies, I got the wrong end of the stick. Are you on sites like modelmayhem, purpleport, etc? These are a great source of TFP models.
I cut my teeth on headshots offering production shots for amateur dramatics groups if they would let me do an evening of headshots for their cast. This got me over 100 headshots in a very quick space of time. Great experience for interacting with subjects, let alone the lighting, etc. A bonus was that I really enjoyed doing the production shots and I'm now getting bookings for it.
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Garry Edwards
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Mention of depression earlier in this thread, and mention of TFP models now...
My take on this is that using TFP models can result in depression
People are cheap (or free) for a reason and my own experience is that TFP models, even if they actually turn up, are of very limited value because mostly, they have no idea.
I've been through this learning process and have learned only to book pro models who have the right kind of experience. Good models make the photography much easier and the results much better.
Mention of depression earlier in this thread, and mention of TFP models now...
My take on this is that using TFP models can result in depression
People are cheap (or free) for a reason and my own experience is that TFP models, even if they actually turn up, are of very limited value because mostly, they have no idea.
I've been through this learning process and have learned only to book pro models who have the right kind of experience. Good models make the photography much easier and the results much better.
We each have to speak as we find. Personally, I advertised for models for headshots, a very different style to those you might book. The OP is interested in portraits, not glamour, fashion or "boudoir". From my experience this generates more of a quality response.
I no longer use them, but it was useful at one time - I have no shots involving them on my portfolio.
However, many new actors use Starnow and Purpleport to generate extra income, especially while they are studying. It is entirely possible to discern the type of person who is going to be reliable and of any use at the actual shoot from profile and appearance.
I have not had one TFP fail to show up and have not had one failed shoot involving a TFP booked model. There again, I've never booked for the sort of "style" that you seem to use in your shoots.
Personally, I would not use a model in a commercial shoot unless I had run a test shoot with that model first and I expect this of a professional. Not all accept that, but most do.
Garry, I'm a little tired of you deriding posts for no reason than to boost your own ego.
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Jenny, you seem to become tired of everyone who ever has a different viewpoint to your own
If using TFP models has worked for you in the past then that's good.
You really shouldn't make assumptions about the type of work that I do because although you may have seen some of my work, you won't know that it's mine. All that you will know about is the stuff I do for Lencarta, and that isn't really typical of my advertising photography. In particular, you shouldn't make assumptions about my glamour or boudoir photography as I don't work in those genres.
The point that I was trying to make, perhaps badly, is that using a TFP model as a means of gaining both experience and confidence, is inherently flawed. I feel that, in the context of this thread, anyone who wants to improve and to learn would be much better off paying a pro model. If you are so skilled and so experienced that you can get pro results with poor materials then that has to be good. But most people can't.
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I've done this too, and I know others who have gone through this to create a lucrative business. For Gareth(@gazmorton2000 ), I think it's the best way forward, and I'm a bit embarrassed not to have mentioned it first.
Drama students are supposed to get headshots during their final year, though being 'poor' students, very few actually prioritise this to the point of paying, maybe get in touch with the nearest college running drama courses and offer your services. If you see it as TFP, it's not a bad deal. You might also discover someone prepared to be a muse, these dramatic types love the attention and whilst they're not trained to pose, they usually have the basic level of deportment and self awareness that wannabe models often lack.
Jenny, you seem to become tired of everyone who ever has a different viewpoint to your own
If using TFP models has worked for you in the past then that's good.
You really shouldn't make assumptions about the type of work that I do because although you may have seen some of my work, you won't know that it's mine. All that you will know about is the stuff I do for Lencarta, and that isn't really typical of my advertising photography. In particular, you shouldn't make assumptions about my glamour or boudoir photography as I don't work in those genres.
The point that I was trying to make, perhaps badly, is that using a TFP model as a means of gaining both experience and confidence, is inherently flawed. I feel that, in the context of this thread, anyone who wants to improve and to learn would be much better off paying a pro model. If you are so skilled and so experienced that you can get pro results with poor materials then that has to be good. But most people can't.
You chose to make a reply only to those points in my original posting where you could make negative and disparaging comments. You repeatedly take the stance that it's your way or the highway, that no one can possibly add anything to photography or the business of photography that you haven't thought of first. You are alienating people from buying your products with your acerbic bitterness.
I have had so-called experienced models who have no idea (as was the case with the last model I had in who asked me to do some shots for him) and those with no experience have been great. When I invite a model fora shoot I do so because I have a vision of what i want to achieve and i expect to direct the model in order that i achieve this vision. As long as a model, or any subject for that matter, can follow a little direction, then all is great in my little world - and from my customer feedback, in theirs, too.
There is no "perhaps badly" about it. You are past undiplomatic and into outright rude. I shudder to think what my customer support experience would have been like had i gone ahead with your product. And, for the record, it wasn't the product that put me off. Professional photographers need professional support, not some know-it-all with an overly inflated ego. Stop being so defensive, be a little more open minded, and consider that other people might just occasionally have something to say that is worth listening to. After you've had a disagreement with someone, get over it, life is short, move on, stop harbouring personal grudges.
Phil,
With respect, I'd actually advise against offering free shoots for drama students as they will pay and there are too many togs giving freebies and killing their own market. Much better, in my experience, to offer free shoots to those who would not pay for them, but would still benefit.
You make very good points about how actors are in front of a camera! In fact, the hardest subjects I have found to work with are those where they think they look like models and don't realise they have to work to make expression. What I enjoy most about doing headshots is the work I put into making sure they DO express and that is crazy fun/hard work/a blast, etc
lolAll,
Gareth wants to learn portrait photography and working with a trained model is exactly what he does NOT need!
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I learned all about studio lighting using a manakin way back in technical college (Paddington) Starting off with a window light, then introducing one, two, three then four lights, then introducing reflectors, snoots etc. The manakin never got bored!
Once we cracked the lighting we used to photograph each other. It was just a case of striking a pose or sitting there looking relaxed. You can buy cheap heads, skulls etc on eBay once you have learned lighting then as long as your reasonably confident at talking to people, making them feel relaxed etc this should translate well into a portrait session.
Once we cracked the lighting we used to photograph each other. It was just a case of striking a pose or sitting there looking relaxed. You can buy cheap heads, skulls etc on eBay once you have learned lighting then as long as your reasonably confident at talking to people, making them feel relaxed etc this should translate well into a portrait session.
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Yes, mannequins can be a good learning tool, models were in fact once known as mannequins.
The limitation though is that the skin and hair are nothing like the real thing, so reflect light differently. That doesn't mean that they're useless, it just means that they are probably no more useful than photographing any number of different still life subjects that you can find around the home - photographing still life is THE way to learn about the behaviour of light - how it defines shape, texture, how it reflects etc.
The most important aspects of portrait photography, in no particular order, are probably
1. Lighting
2. camera position
3. Relationship with the model.
Now, 1 and 2 are technical aspects, some people find them easier than others but nobody should find them especially difficult to learn.
No.3 isn't technical but can be easy for some people and extremely difficult for others.
So, get 1 and 2 thoroughly licked into shape by photographing still life products before attempting No.3. It's a bit like learning to drive, we all have to become totally adept at things like clutch control, throttle, gearchange, steering BEFORE we can learn how to read the road ahead, because we need to have the technical aspects reduced to the point where we can do them without even thinking about them.
Whilst having absolutely no wish to reply to Jenny W, one of the advantages of photographing a good experienced pro model is that s/he will make the interaction bit very easy, which makes the whole process much easier.
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This is precisely why I would advise Gareth NOT to rely on professional models who in my view are best suited to commercial assignments or training seminars where time is tight. What photographers need is real world practice, where they have to deal with real people exactly as they would with a client, but in a low pressure and photographer driven situation. Using professional models who might already understand mood, posing, lighting etc doesn't really help - the photographer must learn how to generate this especially with someone who is not experienced in front of the camera.
When building my own portfolio I often worked with TFC models some of whom had never modelled before but were genuinely enthusiastic. It was very worthwhile because I had to act as I would with a normal client and that is exactly what one needs.
Gareth - I think you mentioned earlier in the thread that you are finding it very difficult getting people to sit for you. I'm going to be blunt (but I mean this nicely) - you're just not being motivated enough to put the effort in - pretty much all of us here can tell you that we have successfully found people to practice on in the past, it is not that difficult if you take a deep breath and get yourself out there. We have all had to overcome barriers to our confidence and most of us know how you are feeling. The good news is that you can easily overcome it. What you have to do is make sure that your enthusiasm is infectious and make it clear that the people you decide to photograph are getting a really good deal. You can approach friends, family members if you have them, sons or daughters of friends, pets of friends, etc. It's as simple as saying " I'm currently refreshing my portrait portfolio and the quickest way for me to do this is to ask my friends and acquaintances to sit for me - in return you'll get some great pictures for your personal use, which you can print at full size and display on social networking if you want to. Because I need to get this up and running quickly I'll be waiving my fees - and I think you'll look great in the pictures! The shoot will only take an hour or two - when are you free?" If they decline, just smile or laugh, and move on to the next. With things like this the law of averages will usually run in your favour. Now what is so daunting about that? They will love the pictures, you're a good photographer - remember that most people have never ever had themselves photographed by someone who knows what they're doing.
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I agree totally with what Lindsay says. Photographing models, and photographing 'normal' people are 2 entirely different things - and generally they also want different things out of a shoot. A decent model will pose without too much direction, won't get bored, or feel nervous or self conscious, will withstand the wind/rain/cold/etc without complaint and will basically come with a whole different mindset. They'll also want images which are probably a little more 'edgy' than your standard portrait. A family member/friend/average Joe off the street will be nervous, won't know what to do with their hands, or their head, will likely have a forced smile, and will look to you for direction. For me, this is the hardest bit - and also perhaps why Gareth is finding it difficult with portraits when he doesn't with weddings - the wedding is already choreographed to a certain extent, so is more about being in the right place at the right time, composing the right shot, etc and less about posing the couple.
Gareth, just go for it - stick an ad on Gumtree and ask for volunteers. Screen out the ones who can't write a sentence, and hopefully you'll be left with a couple of people who are decent. Don't involve your brand at all (hence why Gumtree and not Facebook, etc) and if it doesn't work out no one's any the wiser and there's no harm done.
Gareth, just go for it - stick an ad on Gumtree and ask for volunteers. Screen out the ones who can't write a sentence, and hopefully you'll be left with a couple of people who are decent. Don't involve your brand at all (hence why Gumtree and not Facebook, etc) and if it doesn't work out no one's any the wiser and there's no harm done.
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Thank you for the further comments! Just had a quick read whilst I am sat waiting for next months wedding couple, so forgive the lack of multi quote and direct replies.
I actually put an event in Facebook recently and get a couple of replies. I made some portraits of a girl who was keen last weekend and they are in the photo section of the forum for feedback. I possibly shouldn't have given the added task of shooting fully manual, medium format film
but, even though I knew they weren't 'perfect' from a photography point of view once I had seen the results after developing and scanning, and the comments reflect that here, she was very happy indeed with them and would like to sit for some more soon, so I will take the advice on board and try again (with digital!)
I will hire and use professional models when I have a specific idea or theme I want to realise, but what I don't see the point in is just letting them free pose for me, so the same models who are in a lot of other photographers portfolios appear in mine with the same poses! That's not meant a to sound nasty but it's just not for me.
As for the confidence thing, for some reason, I am a completely different person when with wedding clients either before they book (which I think reflects my conversion rate at this early stage.....or I'm just too cheap as a beginner) and on the day. In fact, that has been commented by a female friend previously. She said I am like a different person. Self conscious and not at all confident in real life, yet when working am the exact opposite.
Also, whilst we are on the subject, and from things that have happened this week whilst I've had a week off work, I would very much love to be a good/great general photographer. Two trips to Manchester and one into London with a photographer friend in a week and nothing to show mp for my endeavours. He came back with all sorts of great images from both locations. I came back wanting to tear the remainder of my hair out and launch the camera from an upstairs window. I soldier on.
I actually put an event in Facebook recently and get a couple of replies. I made some portraits of a girl who was keen last weekend and they are in the photo section of the forum for feedback. I possibly shouldn't have given the added task of shooting fully manual, medium format film
but, even though I knew they weren't 'perfect' from a photography point of view once I had seen the results after developing and scanning, and the comments reflect that here, she was very happy indeed with them and would like to sit for some more soon, so I will take the advice on board and try again (with digital!)I will hire and use professional models when I have a specific idea or theme I want to realise, but what I don't see the point in is just letting them free pose for me, so the same models who are in a lot of other photographers portfolios appear in mine with the same poses! That's not meant a to sound nasty but it's just not for me.
As for the confidence thing, for some reason, I am a completely different person when with wedding clients either before they book (which I think reflects my conversion rate at this early stage.....or I'm just too cheap as a beginner) and on the day. In fact, that has been commented by a female friend previously. She said I am like a different person. Self conscious and not at all confident in real life, yet when working am the exact opposite.
Also, whilst we are on the subject, and from things that have happened this week whilst I've had a week off work, I would very much love to be a good/great general photographer. Two trips to Manchester and one into London with a photographer friend in a week and nothing to show mp for my endeavours. He came back with all sorts of great images from both locations. I came back wanting to tear the remainder of my hair out and launch the camera from an upstairs window. I soldier on.
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Thank you for the further comments! Just had a quick read whilst I am sat waiting for next months wedding couple, so forgive the lack of multi quote and direct replies.
I actually put an event in Facebook recently and get a couple of replies. I made some portraits of a girl who was keen last weekend and they are in the photo section of the forum for feedback. I possibly shouldn't have given the added task of shooting fully manual, medium format film
I will hire and use professional models when I have a specific idea or theme I want to realise, but what I don't see the point in is just letting them free pose for me, so the same models who are in a lot of other photographers portfolios appear in mine with the same poses! That's not meant a to sound nasty but it's just not for me.
As for the confidence thing, for some reason, I am a completely different person when with wedding clients either before they book (which I think reflects my conversion rate at this early stage.....or I'm just too cheap as a beginner) and on the day. In fact, that has been commented by a female friend previously. She said I am like a different person. Self conscious and not at all confident in real life, yet when working am the exact opposite.
Also, whilst we are on the subject, and from things that have happened this week whilst I've had a week off work, I would very much love to be a good/great general photographer. Two trips to Manchester and one into London with a photographer friend in a week and nothing to show mp for my endeavours. He came back with all sorts of great images from both locations. I came back wanting to tear the remainder of my hair out and launch the camera from an upstairs window. I soldier on.
Still way too hard on yourself.
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I may be wrong, but as I read this you decided to have a go at street/travel photography in Manchester, which you probably haven't done much of before, and because your shots weren't great (in your own mind) you've decided you're a loser? Come on Gareth, you know the score - how many hundreds (if not thousands) of hours do we need to put into something before we're good at it? I'm a portrait photographer but I know how many years it took for me to produce good wildlife photography, urban photography and landscape photography, etc. It's unrealistic to have a go at something for 5 minutes and then decide you're no good at it.
You clearly lacked confidence but I wonder if that's because you're rather impatient! If you want to be a good photographer going into the future then you have to be in it for the long haul. Set yourself realistic learning objectives and remember that those objectives are worthless unless you're prepared to put the practise in - and that means a lot of hours.
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I agree. Decided to take up photography again in 2008 only within the last year or so have felt that the various pieces are falling into place - it was a big boost to enter my first photographic competition and receive runner up prize last year - after five years of hard graft
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possiblyThe thing is, I've actually been at general stuff for years. Way before I decided to do weddings and portraiture. I'm out with the camera most weekends in fact, so it isn't a case of just decided to have a go and instantly not good at it. That partially the basis for the start of this thread. Feel like I've been at it for a long time and getting almost nowhere.
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I also think that, as a photographer, it's very easy to think 'well I understand exposure and composition, I know how to use my camera and I can produce good shots in my usual genre, why is it so difficult when I try and shoot something different?' For me, landscapes and especially cityscapes have been my bread and butter for years. I know when to turn up, exactly how to shoot to get the shots i want. But trying to do portraits is entirely different. Sure, working the camera is easy enough, but giving direction, knowing flattering poses, checking for background distractions, etc is all alien to me in such a fast moving environment. Likewise I can imagine that a portrait photographer might struggle trying to take a cityscape when he is unable to give direction to move the scene around to how he thinks would work best. He has to work with what he has in front of him, nothing more, nothing less. Both genres of photography require entirely different skillsets, but we still tend to think that because we can use a camera it should all come easily to us.
The trouble is we all have egos (even if very small egos!) and they're easily dented when we feel we can't do something we feel we *should* be able to do.
The trouble is we all have egos (even if very small egos!) and they're easily dented when we feel we can't do something we feel we *should* be able to do.
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Well said Ken. The reason why so many people take up photography only to give in comes down to a realization that each element of the photograph must be learned and mastered in its own right - be that an understanding of lighting, posing, narrative, subject engagement, and the various elements which will create a strong composition or impact. I think you've done pretty well to get to where you have in just a few years!
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OK, then it sounds like perhaps you need to have a break or a complete change of scene? Or perhaps some dedicated training to sort out the areas where you feel your abilities are lacking? Good quality training can be the best investment you will ever make - sometimes just one or two training days a year can make a huge difference. It sounds like you need to treat yourself to something like that, it will give you a boost, and most likely will help you to realise that you are nowhere near as bad as you think! Unfortunately photography is a very lonely profession and we can end up overthinking things and becoming our own worst enemy.
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Of course you're getting somewhere. It's probably just a case that your expectations are getting higher, as you skills get better.
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And another thing Gareth - don't go and compare yourself to other photographers. It's perfectly natural that we might assume most people are better - that's because we can be a very poor judge of our own work, often becoming overcritical of what we produce (when we're beginners it can be the opposite, we can think our shots are great simply because they're in focus).
There are ways of determining our standards - putting it simply we can look at how many clients we're getting and their reactions, or else we can enter some of the more respected competitions. We can even work towards one of the distinctions/accreditations from an industry body (I'll not say anything further about this as there has recently been a long and exhaustive thread on the matter) which can be a fantastic way of regaining perspective. Next, we can present our work to magazines and see if we can gain an editorial feature (you'll need a fairly interesting or unique project because most of the magazines aren't looking for fairly standard or predictable imagery) and this could form the basis of a personal project. In other words, there are plenty of ways of gaining recognition - and for many, recognition brings confidence. You don't have to be a fully fledged pro to do any of these things, you just need to step back and take a rational look at your work.
Do you think you may be unhappy with some of your images simply because you have not had a clear objective when you have actually taken them?
There are ways of determining our standards - putting it simply we can look at how many clients we're getting and their reactions, or else we can enter some of the more respected competitions. We can even work towards one of the distinctions/accreditations from an industry body (I'll not say anything further about this as there has recently been a long and exhaustive thread on the matter) which can be a fantastic way of regaining perspective. Next, we can present our work to magazines and see if we can gain an editorial feature (you'll need a fairly interesting or unique project because most of the magazines aren't looking for fairly standard or predictable imagery) and this could form the basis of a personal project. In other words, there are plenty of ways of gaining recognition - and for many, recognition brings confidence. You don't have to be a fully fledged pro to do any of these things, you just need to step back and take a rational look at your work.
Do you think you may be unhappy with some of your images simply because you have not had a clear objective when you have actually taken them?
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Gareth, do your weddings, get the formals done, then treat the wedding as a portrait shoot. Make up a narrative as you go along if you like, after all, once the money shots are done it's your free practice time. It's the only day people will put up with a camera in their face. Embrace it.
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Everyony has to start somewhere and your never too old for anything it just takes effort and hard work.mistakes can usually be corrected..
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So many of my friends tell me not to look at so many other photographers work. It's hard for me though because I LOVE looking at great images. I love seeing what people I aspire to be like are shooting, so difficult for me to distance myself from that to be honest. I like to have a camera with me most places I go.
I don't think it's because I don't have a clear objective either. Even when I do have one, it's disheartening when it receives negative feedback. It's like I had a concept, tried to realise it and then failed to do so.
Which was when this thread began. Still trying to figure where I can put all my non-wedding stuff. I was gonna add a section to that site, or another site, or a tumblr blog which sounds simple. May go with that idea. I just want to do photo stuff!
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Gareth, of course you should look at other photographers work - it's a great way to be inspired. It can also drive us to improve. However as I said you must stop comparing yourself to others in a negative way - what good will that do?
What do you mean your objectives receive negative feedback? From whom? Do these people have the skills and the credentials to critique your work? Because if they don't, then you really shouldn't be asking them. Do you think you take things too personally? You also need to learn to differentiate between a personal/subjective opinion and constructive advice. Constructive critique can be difficult to take at first, but you will quickly realise just how valuable it is - and how lucky you are to have it. Once you've identified where you're going wrong you can then take steps to address it.
What do you mean your objectives receive negative feedback? From whom? Do these people have the skills and the credentials to critique your work? Because if they don't, then you really shouldn't be asking them. Do you think you take things too personally? You also need to learn to differentiate between a personal/subjective opinion and constructive advice. Constructive critique can be difficult to take at first, but you will quickly realise just how valuable it is - and how lucky you are to have it. Once you've identified where you're going wrong you can then take steps to address it.
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It's always hard when other photographers criticise your work, no matter who you are. Especially when it's an idea you have tried to realise that receives negative comments. Thick skin is required but also realising that the comments aren't personal. I have learned that not too long ago and it has helped no end, but it's hard not to take things to heart sometimes. That's something that has been discussed in countless threads though I am sure. Your right, differentiating between opinion and advice is tricky. When people say, "I'd have done it this way". Well that's all well and good but then if I went away and did it their way, it wouldn't be my photo. I believe you have to find your own way and make the images the way you want to make them. Still doesn't make the journey any easier!!
I find it very helpful for me to critique other peoples' photography. I don't comment most of the time, but I do look at a shot and in my mind properly critique. It helps me decide what I like and don't like and where feel I need to aim for. I've found this far more useful then some of the half-arsed critiques I've had for my own work.
I've seen your work, you know what a good photograph looks like. I'll bet your customers, friends and family all love your work. It's time to stop thinking so much and just do it. (Happen to be telling myself the same thing right now!)
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Hi Gareth
Just caught up with the last few posts having been away this week.
IMO there is a grey area/thin line between critique of specific photographs and criticism of the concept/idea/objective that was the driving force behind said image.
It has (often?) been said that the rules of composition for example are there to be broken/challenged..................in broad terms I agree with that 'statement' but also IMO one has to understand why such rules (of 1/3rds, Golden Angle etc) work to create a pleasing composition and hence why breaking them in a visually challenging way is interesting & beneficial to create discussion about the how & why of what the photographer was trying to or did indeed achieve.
When one sees novices work that does not have compositional merit it is all too easy to criticise rather than critique because the (in the case I am arguing?) composition is disconcerting......................proper critique would be to engage with the novice and ask them what they see as 'good' about the image(s) to test their thinking about the way they approached the subject.
Thus when someone such as yourself who has already shown themselves to produce a good standard of work and good body of that to boot expresses their angst as you have done, rather than quit because you are listening to only the (as you put it) negative feedback from other photographers stop to think who is your audience??? Is it the fellow togs or the paying client...................(some of) the former may not agree with your novel approach and say so as criticism rather than critique..............if the latter, well they will vote with their wallets
Where you say "When people say, "I'd have done it this way". Well that's all well and good but then if I went away and did it their way, it wouldn't be my photo. I believe you have to find your own way and make the images the way you want to make them. Still doesn't make the journey any easier!!" I agree completely with your last sentence (underlined) as IMO when people (photographers) say 'I'd have done it this way' to me is not critique or criticism but opinion.............if what you have created challenges convention it can only be opinion even if they are able to voice the reasons and explanation...............and you know what they say about opinions
Sorry to ramble and hope this makes sense because the old grey matter is tired and befuddled. So Gareth please give yourself some slack and stick with the paying work plus make time for your personal & professional projects to develop the style you are deeply searching for, to which end much has been posted about avenues to help you 'get there'.
Just caught up with the last few posts having been away this week.
IMO there is a grey area/thin line between critique of specific photographs and criticism of the concept/idea/objective that was the driving force behind said image.
It has (often?) been said that the rules of composition for example are there to be broken/challenged..................in broad terms I agree with that 'statement' but also IMO one has to understand why such rules (of 1/3rds, Golden Angle etc) work to create a pleasing composition and hence why breaking them in a visually challenging way is interesting & beneficial to create discussion about the how & why of what the photographer was trying to or did indeed achieve.
When one sees novices work that does not have compositional merit it is all too easy to criticise rather than critique because the (in the case I am arguing?) composition is disconcerting......................proper critique would be to engage with the novice and ask them what they see as 'good' about the image(s) to test their thinking about the way they approached the subject.
Thus when someone such as yourself who has already shown themselves to produce a good standard of work and good body of that to boot expresses their angst as you have done, rather than quit because you are listening to only the (as you put it) negative feedback from other photographers stop to think who is your audience??? Is it the fellow togs or the paying client...................(some of) the former may not agree with your novel approach and say so as criticism rather than critique..............if the latter, well they will vote with their wallets
Where you say "When people say, "I'd have done it this way". Well that's all well and good but then if I went away and did it their way, it wouldn't be my photo. I believe you have to find your own way and make the images the way you want to make them. Still doesn't make the journey any easier!!" I agree completely with your last sentence (underlined) as IMO when people (photographers) say 'I'd have done it this way' to me is not critique or criticism but opinion.............if what you have created challenges convention it can only be opinion even if they are able to voice the reasons and explanation...............and you know what they say about opinions
Sorry to ramble and hope this makes sense because the old grey matter is tired and befuddled. So Gareth please give yourself some slack and stick with the paying work plus make time for your personal & professional projects to develop the style you are deeply searching for, to which end much has been posted about avenues to help you 'get there'.
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Google finds this which is quicker than I could try to say it.
- Time for print
- Time for print (or trade for print, test for print, time for pics, TFP, and sometimes print for time, PFT) is a term many online photography communities use to describe an arrangement between a model and a photographer whereby the photographer agrees to provide the model with an agreed number of pictures of the best ...
big soft moose
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While I agree with much of what has been said (not Mr 23 soft boxes and 48 lighting stands ... to dry his socks on), I would say that if doing portrait photography doesn't come naturally to you / doesn't make you a happy and fulfilled photographer , the may be it isn't for you. That isn't a reflection on your ability , but just advice in terms of you've one life, live it.
In my case I don't do studio portraiture at all ... times I've tried (not I hasten to add with paying clients) its been an abject failure, and all that faffing about with lights and stands and stuff leaves me cold. Shooting portraits doesn't have to be the natural lead on from doing weddings, so if it doesn't pull your plonker then cest la vie ... its not giving up, or an indication of failure, its just about making informed choices about what you want to do
In my case I don't do studio portraiture at all ... times I've tried (not I hasten to add with paying clients) its been an abject failure, and all that faffing about with lights and stands and stuff leaves me cold. Shooting portraits doesn't have to be the natural lead on from doing weddings, so if it doesn't pull your plonker then cest la vie ... its not giving up, or an indication of failure, its just about making informed choices about what you want to do
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Just FWIW I spotted this article over at LuLa about a 'proper approach' to critique
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/about/briots-view/vision_11_critiquing_photographs.shtml
Where Alain Briot covers critique, criticism & opinion................the good, the bad and the ugly? What is said is obviously not just germane to Gareth's 'situation'.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/about/briots-view/vision_11_critiquing_photographs.shtml
Where Alain Briot covers critique, criticism & opinion................the good, the bad and the ugly?
What is said is obviously not just germane to Gareth's 'situation'.
sk66
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Jeeze I hope not... otherwise I've wasted a huge part of my life not even considering the money.
I liked the one think Lindsay said about experienced models vs inexperienced (TFP)... working w/ inexperienced is going to be much more valuable "long term" in relation to working with "normal people." But you had better be a "people person," or at least learn to appear to be one... if not, that's going to be nothing but painful. It's also going to be a bit longer/harder path to follow.
The other side of this same coin is working with experienced models who at least know how to do their part... that will allow you to learn the "easy part" of people photography and get *some* experience with the harder part. I would consider it a "stepping stone" approach...
Taking consistently good/excellent pictures of unskilled models (i.e. normal people) is, IMO, the most difficult thing one could hope to achieve in photography. It requires skill in EVERY area, to include personality and inter-personal skills... two areas I'm lacking in (there's a reason I shoot almost anything/everything else besides portraits).
Being particularly harsh/demanding/critical are not personality traits that suit this area... if you are that way, get over it or find another direction. (everyone has their moments, but not as a general personality trait).
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