Ignorant People and (parents) at Zoos etc (Rant alert)

gothgirl

gothgirl

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I'm really tired of people (parents) who have no respect for people with cameras at places like zoos and I'm in no doubt other people are too.

I spent 40 minutes waiting at chester zoo for their Sunda Gharial (crocodilian) to come out of it's hiding space to get a photo of it...

For a bunch of parents who had been there 5 minutes at the most to shove their children to the front of the glass ( and in front of me and my camera) the second it emerged... despite the fact they knew I had been there 40 minutes waiting as they talked to us... and they could see me trying to take a photo of it....
followed by a couple with an ipad sitting in front of it (and me) to get a selfie...
and a woman who pushed herself smack bang in front of me and my camera to bend over and look at it...

Which meant I waited 40 minutes to get a photo of it...only to have to photoshop reflections of people out of the glass.. of the pictures I managed to get without the actual people in it..

Are we invisible ? or apparantley because we have a camera and not an ipad we're not allowed to have an unobstructed view of things ?

Since when does having children give you a right to push in front of a good old british que?

If it wasn't for one grandparent, grabbing the children (and parents) and forcibly moving them a few steps back, stating "Let's let this lady get a photo" I wouldn't have anything at all

Rant over.
 
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boliston said:
Sounds like you need to be more "pushy" yourself ;)
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I'm too polite for that, I just go home and rant about it later.
And I'm not in the habit of pushing toddlers.

grotty said:
Annoying as that situation may be, it's a public zoo and not a private photo shoot, so I'm not sure your rant has much validity.
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True, but camera aside pretend it's not even there..... Someone's been stood waiting for 40 minutes to see an animal, (which you're aware of) and you turn up and push your children in front of them and block their view as soon as it appears. ?
Honestly what happened to a good old british que.
 
Thing is, having a camera, doesn't give you any special rights. It's annoying, for you, but it's a public venue and everyone was probably anxious to get a view.
 
Stand back. Let the grockles have their moment of panic. Then in a few minutes they will all have gone and you have the place to yourself.
As a photographer you don't have any special rights, and no-one has to make way for you. Play the game. Don't rush in. Be patient and you'll get what you want.
 
I get that having a camera gives me no special rights.. .but as I said ignoring the camera and just being a person who was there waiting for a long time, it gets annoying when people just turn up and push in front of you, or sit in front... of you or stand right in front of you
 
gothgirl said:
True, but camera aside pretend it's not even there..... Someone's been stood waiting for 40 minutes to see an animal, (which you're aware of) and you turn up and push your children in front of them and block their view as soon as it appears. ?
Honestly what happened to a good old british que.
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If they have also been waiting for 40 mins. which is the only way they would know you have, then surely they have as much right as you.
As said it's a public venue and they have paid as much as you have to be there so have the same rights, annoying though it is
 
Gremlin said:
If they have also been waiting for 40 mins. which is the only way they would know you have, then surely they have as much right as you.
As said it's a public venue and they have paid as much as you have to be there so have the same rights, annoying though it is
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They had been there 5 minutes.. .
Asked where it was (I answered it was hiding) and how long It had been hiding, I said I've been here 40 minutes and its been hiding all the time i've been here.

I just think people forget manners, fair enough they pay the same to get in but you wouldn't just barge past and push in front of someone in another situation or anywhere else ?

Or maybe people do now and I really DO need to be more pushy.
 
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simon ess said:
Remember, it's not what happens that matters; it's how you react to what happens that matters.
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I think refusing to push a toddler and a ipad wielding duo out of the way, and instead rant about it when I get home, was pretty fair.
 
TimmyG said:
Should have just given them a gentle shove. I bet the crocodile came out because it was hungry ;)

You would have got some amazing images then!
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Yeah but then there's that whole "staged " argument

Bet the mirror would buy the pics though
 
Sadly it's something you have to learn to live with as a paying public person, if you want exclusive shots then you have to pay more more exclusive access
 
I know exactly what you mean and as a regular at Chester zoo know the enclosure that you mean
It's happened to me as well especially at the old tiger enclosure in front of the glass viewing area
Yes everyone has as much right to see the animals as much as you do but there's no excuse for bad manners and pushing in front of you
What I did at the tiger viewing area was to put the front of my lens right up to the glass to reduce reflections and kneel on the floor so people could see around and over the top of me
I know that won't help at the enclosure that you're talking about as the Gharial comes up close to the glass and you have to stand back to photograph it
Most people are great tho and I have had only had a few problems in all the years that I've been going to chester zoo
At somewhere like the zoo you have to have an easy going attitude and accept that you can't always get the shot that you want straight away
be patient and pick your moments to get the shot
It's best to go there in the winter to be honest it's quieter :)
 
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All that talk above about public places and equal rights is fine, yet the offenders are clearly not behaving that way. Personally, I would have told them to GTFO of my way for the few seconds I required for my equal rights.
 
I had something similar last year, also at Chester zoo. In the tiger enclosure there was the mother laying down with her cubs next to her. There was a family (mum, dad & 3 kids and possibly an aunt & uncle) up against the glass and they were there for ages. Well they're entitled I hear you say and I would agree except that none of them were looking at the tigers, they were just gassing away and looking at their phones/iPads. Lots of people waiting to see the tigers but couldn't get a look in!

DemiLion said:
Public venue. They have equal right, so no sympathy at all I'm afraid.
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To be fair Mark, the OP has said on a couple of replies that her main gripe was that of a lack of manners and consideration for others, she never said that she had more rights than them.
 
Get your space as tight to a bit of clear glass as possible and stand your ground when brats try to push in front of you. Everyone there has paid for the right to be there but that doesn't entitle them to behave badly/rudely. If necessary, ask nicely if you can grab a shot before Katey-Jemillier snots all over the glass. Might not work but does put you on the moral high ground.
 
It can be a bit of a Scrum round the interesting stuff and getting shots without people being reflected in the glass is a real challenge.

As for your expectations of social behaviour; I'm afraid you have set your sights rather too high. Chester Zoo is term that can be used to describe the occupants of both sides of the fence.
 
fabs said:
I had something similar last year, also at Chester zoo. In the tiger enclosure there was the mother laying down with her cubs next to her. There was a family (mum, dad & 3 kids and possibly an aunt & uncle) up against the glass and they were there for ages. Well they're entitled I hear you say and I would agree except that none of them were looking at the tigers, they were just gassing away and looking at their phones/iPads. Lots of people waiting to see the tigers but couldn't get a look in!



To be fair Mark, the OP has said on a couple of replies that her main gripe was that of a lack of manners and consideration for others, she never said that she had more rights than them.
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Yes I've seen that they park their buggies with child in front of the glass viewing area and then just stand and chat and mess with their phones

Agree with you about the OP Marc she just wanted a bit of consideration :)
 
Neil B said:
Captive animals/children are best avoided, Chester, zoo or anywhere else :meh: :indifferent:
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Problem is, most folk can't visit many of the exotics in the wild & although in an ideal world there wouldn't be any captive animals, getting folk interested in animals & their welfare by seeing them in captivity is better than not being interested at all, surely. Another point is zoo's run breeding programmes & may even be the remaining gene pool for certain species. (unfortunately )

I do know what you mean ...............especially about kids! :LOL:
 
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Just shout "Clear the area - venomous snake escaped"
 
Well sorry but I’m with the OP, it’s a manners thing, public space or camera has nothing to do with it, it’s manners!
It’s up there with jumping the queue to get into the zoo, same location, still public space but how many would put up with that if they’d been waiting 40 mins?
 
I don't see it as a manners thing at all. Sure if I was to "push" forward depending on how it was done then yes. But I do encourage my children to squeeze through and get to the front. They can't see anything from the back, and by general definition they are much short and thus aren't in the way of a line of sight.

It's a private place with general access, "hogging" the best viewpoint for 40 minutes is not on in my opinion. I'm not sure about Chester, but Whipsnade runs many an early or late "private" access programme. Much better for photography as most people there truly appreciate and get what you are doing. Whilst on a normal general access day, it is for all and to view the animals. Not just camera clubs.

I really don't get how it is seen as bad manners to let shorter people go to the front so they can see as well. If anything it is the reverse, I find it much more rude to block the view to those who have no means to look over you.

Failing that, just drop a real stinker :)
 
Then look at any baby in a stroller as though it was them that dropped it!
 
This is just a guess, as ive never been to Chester Zoo, but I very much doubt that the Croc in question was at Gothgirls eye level, meaning that she would have to crouch down to take the photo. So, if that is the case, the shorter little darlings would indeed still be in the way wouldnt they?. Equal rights are equal rights, and im assuming Gothgirl paid to get in like anyone else, so surely she should be equally entitled to take a photo as anyone else would.

I sympathise with Gothgirl...not as a photographer...but as a normal person that would hope others would have some manners in a similar situation.

NO, the OP doesnt have any more rights than anyone else, I understand that, but what right did these other people have to just barge in front of her?
 
LCPete said:
Yes everyone has as much right to see the animals as much as you do but there's no excuse for bad manners and pushing in front of you
Most people are great tho and I have had only had a few problems in all the years that I've been going to chester zoo
At somewhere like the zoo you have to have an easy going attitude and accept that you can't always get the shot that you want straight away
be patient and pick your moments to get the shot
It's best to go there in the winter to be honest it's quieter :)
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This.

I have experienced similar problems at zoos and events, in that I have waited a very long time in order to get a good spot at the front, and then a family will arrive at the last minute and will push through everyone else until they have forced you out of the way as well. To me this is very bad manners and smacks of the sense of entitlement that an increasing number of parents seem to have. Some people feel that because they have children their 'rights' eclipse those of everybody else, and we are expected to quietly suck it up. I have no problem with small children standing in front of me so that they can see. But I do have a problem with anyone bigger than that obscuring the view that I have patiently waited for - I object even more when the parents add themselves to my compromised line of sight. When this happens I always politely say something - sometimes all you have to do is smile and go 'would you mind moving over a little to the side, thank you'. On occasion I have had a (usually very plummy) parent stare at me and say 'not really, this is the best vantage point for Jonty and Phoebe' to which I might reply 'then you need to get here a bit earlier'. There is nothing wrong with quietly having a word - it sometimes works.

There are lots of similar things which I find very annoying when I'm at an event which appeals both to families and adults alike. I happen to enjoy historical re-enactments but these can be very irritating if you're stood next to a family with young children who have been equipped with the quite large plastic swords which get sold there. On several occasions over the years I've been hit by a flailing weapon, and a lens has been hit before and marked. I've also come close to losing an eye - and some parents don't seem to be mindful of the damage their children can do with these objects in a crowded place. I do usually say something but it's disappointing when parents will not make any attempt to curtail things. I would like to see the selling of these 'toys' banned from these events actually.

There was a thread last year I think about how Marwell was finally banning scooters - and they had posted a very apologetic statement to that effect on their website. Yes, they felt they had to apologise to the families who cart these contraptions to crowded places, so that they can scrape and bruise the ankles of anyone trying to walk normally along a path. The extent to which so many places kowtow to families has gone too far in my opinion, so I'm quite pleased when these measures are finally recognised.

All I ask for is equal courtesy, not the constant expectation that children and their parents should be allowed to dish out any behaviour they wish when it compromises the safety or enjoyment of others.

Lastly, it's not just people with children who behave like this - there are some crappy adults as well - often photographers actually. I see this at a bird reserve I visit - there is a particular hide where I would love to sit for a few minutes to get some pictures, but so far I haven't been able to because there are usually a couple of photographers staking it out with their enormous lenses (which apparently constitutes an upper level entry visa) and they will be there for hours at a time. Even when I hover politely behind them making it clear I would like to grab a couple of shots, they will not move. Because I'm walking in with a smaller camera and lens, perhaps they presume that my photographs are not as important as theirs. If I ask them politely they will normally say that they can't move because there is a particular bird they're waiting for. :rolleyes:
 
Lindsay D said:
there is a particular hide where I would love to sit for a few minutes to get some pictures, but so far I haven't been able to because there are usually a couple of photographers staking it out with their enormous lenses
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Lindsay D said:
'then you need to get here a bit earlier'.
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Just to play devil's advocate, is this not a bit of a double standard? ;)
 
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Lindsay D said:
This.

I have experienced similar problems at zoos and events, in that I have waited a very long time in order to get a good spot at the front, and then a family will arrive at the last minute and will push through everyone else until they have forced you out of the way as well. To me this is very bad manners and smacks of the sense of entitlement that an increasing number of parents seem to have. Some people feel that because they have children their 'rights' eclipse those of everybody else, and we are expected to quietly suck it up. I have no problem with small children standing in front of me so that they can see. But I do have a problem with anyone bigger than that obscuring the view that I have patiently waited for - I object even more when the parents add themselves to my compromised line of sight. When this happens I always politely say something - sometimes all you have to do is smile and go 'would you mind moving over a little to the side, thank you'. On occasion I have had a (usually very plummy) parent stare at me and say 'not really, this is the best vantage point for Jonty and Phoebe' to which I might reply 'then you need to get here a bit earlier'. There is nothing wrong with quietly having a word - it sometimes works.

There are lots of similar things which I find very annoying when I'm at an event which appeals both to families and adults alike. I happen to enjoy historical re-enactments but these can be very irritating if you're stood next to a family with young children who have been equipped with the quite large plastic swords which get sold there. On several occasions over the years I've been hit by a flailing weapon, and a lens has been hit before and marked. I've also come close to losing an eye - and some parents don't seem to be mindful of the damage their children can do with these objects in a crowded place. I do usually say something but it's disappointing when parents will not make any attempt to curtail things. I would like to see the selling of these 'toys' banned from these events actually.

There was a thread last year I think about how Marwell was finally banning scooters - and they had posted a very apologetic statement to that effect on their website. Yes, they felt they had to apologise to the families who cart these contraptions to crowded places, so that they can scrape and bruise the ankles of anyone trying to walk normally along a path. The extent to which so many places kowtow to families has gone too far in my opinion, so I'm quite pleased when these measures are finally recognised.

All I ask for is equal courtesy, not the constant expectation that children and their parents should be allowed to dish out any behaviour they wish when it compromises the safety or enjoyment of others.

Lastly, it's not just people with children who behave like this - there are some crappy adults as well - often photographers actually. I see this at a bird reserve I visit - there is a particular hide where I would love to sit for a few minutes to get some pictures, but so far I haven't been able to because there are usually a couple of photographers staking it out with their enormous lenses (which apparently constitutes an upper level entry visa) and they will be there for hours at a time. Even when I hover politely behind them making it clear I would like to grab a couple of shots, they will not move. Because I'm walking in with a smaller camera and lens, perhaps they presume that my photographs are not as important as theirs. If I ask them politely they will normally say that they can't move because there is a particular bird they're waiting for. :rolleyes:
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Some good point,but as an man you cant even say anything you can bring a world of s*** down on you when it come to children :(
 
FinePrintDandy said:
;)



Just to play devil's advocate, is this not a bit of a double standard?
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No Mitch, I don't think it's a double standard. If I arrive there and someone is already in situ I will politely wait for them to finish or I will come back later - as I alluded. And if they are still there after an hour or two, then I will politely ask when they will be finished - and in the case I quote the photographers in question do not have any particular finishing point in mind, even when they are aware that somebody is repeatedly returning in the hope of gaining a photograph. This process can span several hours so I do not think I am being hypocritical or unreasonable! I'm talking about a busy public reserve which does not have areas specifically set aside for photographers, the viewing points are there for everyone. But I do think it's rude when a couple of big photographers with a lot of equipment park themselves and will not allow anyone else access that morning or that day. If that is their priority they should attend on a specific photographer day. That is what I do if there is something special or important that I want to photograph without being impeded. I never stay at the front of a hide or enclosure for more than a few minutes when there are other people around, because everybody deserves their slot.
 
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Lindsay D said:
I suppose it depends what you say! I don't think the comments I come out with are in any way gender specific, or could possibly cause any offence.
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Sorry didnt mean your post cause any offence,but just saying when it comes to men saying anything to parents or children who get in the way,especially if their male parent involved or even some women (n)
 
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