I'm a bit mad really.....

Borats Baby

Borats Baby

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Rikki
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I took my 4 year old to Moore Nature reserve today,

I've given him his own camera (a sony cybershot compact) in an attempt to get him interested in photography.

At the first hide we come to, theres 2 blokes in there. 1 has a pair of bino's and is quite cheerful. The other has 3 bodys which looked like 5D's or similar and 2 very large lenses covered in camo gear and everything.

Now, my son was quite well behaved during our 20 minute stay there, he was obviously talkative, but kept his voice fairly low and at NO point did he shout or raise his voice.

The bloke with the camo gear eventually piped up and said " Can you please tall him to keep his voice down, its just the birds round here are very sensitive to noise "

At the time I just said " S'ok, were going in a minute anyway " but later thought of the things I should have said !!!!

How very rude, I'm trying to give my son an interest in photography FFS.

So, to conclude !

Things I should have said :

" Sorry pal, I didn't realise this was YOUR hide ! "

" What about the trains running alongside the reserve every 5 mins ? Shall I tell them to pipe down aswell ? "

" What about the low flying passenger airlines approaching Speke airport ? Shall I tell them to "keep it down" too ! "

" **** off "

I wouldn't mind but Moore is not exactly flourishing with birdlife, its an old quarry that is now full of water !
 
I can see the blokes point of view, I'm not very good with kids so probably wouldnt have lasted 20 minutes, sorry dude. I think I would have also wandered off else where if I walked into a hide with my bro's kids and found a guy taking things very seriously.
 
Its a tough one, some people like silence, although when you fire off the Mk 3 it ain't exactly quiet.

My local is Leighton Moss and kids are encouraged to come. I have seen and have myself let older kids look through the lens, although it is funny trying to get them to actually look through the viewfinder rather than the LCD !

Scratch it down to experience, don't let it put you off and see if the reserve runs any kids clubs where they go out with a staff member ?

A 4 year old cannot be expected to be silent, nor should they have to !
 
I'd have told him to eff off and mind his own business. If he didn't, he'd be fishing for his big cammo covered lenses:D Ignorant git:razz:.
 
I'm with you mate :thumbs:
I don't have the self restraint that you obviously have, I probably would have told my naff off...
 
Kids will be kids, and nothing should be done to curb that. Equally, it sounds like he fairly politely asked you to keep it down, so is there any call to tell him to Foxtrot Romeo Oscar? No, probably not. It sounds to me like your response was a calm and reasoned solution.

So there, no need to think of things you could have said! You said the right thing at the time.
 
BigDex said:
Kids will be kids, and nothing should be done to curb that. Equally, it sounds like he fairly politely asked you to keep it down, so is there any call to tell him to Foxtrot Romeo Oscar? No, probably not. It sounds to me like your response was a calm and reasoned solution.

So there, no need to think of things you could have said! You said the right thing at the time.
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Bah, southern softies:lol::lol::lol::lol:















Only jokin':thumbs:
 
humm, I dunno, peeps and parents+kids don't ever see eye to eye.
I mean, quiet in my house is quiet, quiet in my sisters house is anything less than 90db.
I think somewhere along the line parents ought to realise that doing stuff in an adult environment, certain etiquette takes presidence over kids and parents educational activities.
On the other hand, some peeps become stupid irrational when their world is invaded by other peoples kids, and do and say stuff they wouldn't if the same situation arose between adults.
This story reminds me of that idiot who walks his one year old around the restaurant anywhere he/she wants to go....on a voyage of discovery, whist blocking all the isles, dodging boiling hot pans of custard and tripping waitresses up at every corner.
I just want to.....no I can't say that.
Anyway, I wasn't there, so its hard to say whether you and the little un where out of order, or he was being a bit of an ********..:shrug:.

I thought this thread was going to be about you going mental or something...:lol:
 
BigDex said:
As a Glaswegian in the NorthWest, I find your accusation virtually entirely unfounded! :bat:

As you were :bonk:
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A Weegie, that's just as bad:lol:
 
BigDex said:
We lead the world. Mainly in alcohol-related death, but we still lead.

</ThreadJack>
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Aye but we invented the deep fried Mars bar and I have already had one heart attack;)
 
joxby said:
humm, I dunno, peeps and parents+kids don't ever see eye to eye.
I mean, quiet in my house is quiet, quiet in my sisters house is anything less than 90db.
I think somewhere along the line parents ought to realise that doing stuff in an adult environment, certain etiquette takes presidence over kids and parents educational activities.
On the other hand, some peeps become stupid irrational when their world is invaded by other peoples kids, and do and say stuff they wouldn't if the same situation arose between adults.
This story reminds me of that idiot who walks his one year old around the restaurant anywhere he/she wants to go....on a voyage of discovery, whist blocking all the isles, dodging boiling hot pans of custard and tripping waitresses up at every corner.
I just want to.....no I can't say that.
Anyway, I wasn't there, so its hard to say whether you and the little un where out of order, or he was being a bit of an ********..:shrug:.

I thought this thread was going to be about you going mental or something...:lol:
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I often wonder if the love parents feel for their children somehow blinds them to what's reasonable behaviour. Of course parents love their offspring's and rightly so, but others don't have the same deep feelings and just see these children as annoying little ****s. I remember the day we went to a restaurant with some friends and their (then) 5 year old daughter. Our friends saw no harm in letting their daughter roam in and out of all the other tables in the dining room. Imagine their surprise when a manager came over and asked them to control the child as he had received several complaints from other diners. Their immediate response was that the people who complained so go dine somewhere else! Was that a reasonable response? I didn't think so but kept stum if only to preserve the friendship.
 
The other has 3 bodys which looked like 5D's or similar and 2 very large lenses covered in camo gear and everything.
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Ill give you 10:1 he's on here somewhere, c'mon chap, own up, who are you :razz:
 
i absolutly hate children of all ages, nobody knows how much i hate them :suspect: because of my hatred i tend to keep as far away as i can from them to avoid any problems with parents and my seriously short temper in these matters.....my hatred means just seeing a child approaching will make me move in the opposite direction (think monsters inc....children ARE toxic :D ) if camo man was not happy with bb arriving with his 4 year old, he could have moved instead of bleating about noise, i don't say anything to parents with noisey kids, i just go elsewhere.......he should try it !
 
knocker said:
i absolutly hate children of all ages, nobody knows how much i hate them :suspect: because of my hatred i tend to keep as far away as i can from them to avoid any problems with parents and my seriously short temper in these matters.....my hatred means just seeing a child approaching will make me move in the opposite direction (think monsters inc....children ARE toxic :D ) if camo man was not happy with bb arriving with his 4 year old, he could have moved instead of bleating about noise, i don't say anything to parents with noisey kids, i just go elsewhere.......he should try it !
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Strange dude:thinking: As a father it's difficult to comprehend that attitude:shake:. Hey, ho.:eek:
 
Gofer said:
Our friends saw no harm in letting their daughter roam in and out of all the other tables in the dining room. Imagine their surprise when a manager came over and asked them to control the child as he had received several complaints from other diners.
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I would never let my kids roam in and out of tables at a restaraunt.

And they know it !!!!

My lad was not being obnoxious, he was just being a (well behaved) 4 year old !

I hope the bloke I met today is a member here ! I can give the piece of my mind I neglected to give him earlier !!
 
Borats Baby said:
I would never let my kids roam in and out of tables at a restaraunt.

And they know it !!!!

My lad was not being obnoxious, he was just being a (well behaved) 4 year old !

I hope the bloke I met today is a member here ! I can give the piece of my mind I neglected to give him earlier !!
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Wasn't knocker was it??:lol::lol: He hates all kids:thumbsdown:
 
See I dont mind kids at Oulton Park running around me etc when I am taking shots as they have every right to be there as me. I do however, get annoyed when they are climbing all over the safety fencing. Not becuase they are doing it (kids will be kids) but becuase the parents dont do anything!!!!!!
 
Matt Sayle said:
See I don't mind kids at Oulton Park running around me etc when I am taking shots as they have every right to be there as me. I do however, get annoyed when they are climbing all over the safety fencing. Not because they are doing it (kids will be kids) but because the parents don't do anything!!!!!!
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Thats a very good point. I work with children but don't have any. I hate it when parents done appreciate acceptable behaviour. what do i consider acceptable, children being children but with there parents respecting other people. Is it acceptable to run around a restaurant, no. Is is acceptable to talk in normal manner yes 99% of the time. Was the OP out of order nah its a reasonable activity for a small child. Was the guy who moaned out of order to some extent it could have waited children of that age have an attention span of about 30mins max, or he could have moved to another spot.
 
BB, I'm sure your child was not behaving badly, or unexpectedly.

But I question your judgement in taking him there in the first place. It's a bird watching hide, where you watch birds, in silence because they are easily scared by sudden noise, usually with binoculars and/or long lens and camera. Not a Sony compact.

If you want to teach him photography (unlikely at that age, but it's your choice) let him take pictures of his friends. If you want to teach him ornithology, look in the garden. Don't take him to an old quarry full of water and no birds! I tried both subjects with my two kids, but neither of them took the remotest interest until they were teenagers.

Familiar and regular noise like trains does not usually scare birds.

No, it wasn't me - I don't have a 5D.
 
HoppyUK said:
BB, I'm sure your child was not behaving badly, or unexpectedly.

But I question your judgement in taking him there in the first place. It's a bird watching hide, where you watch birds, in silence because they are easily scared by sudden noise, usually with binoculars and/or long lens and camera. Not a Sony compact.
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I'm of the same opinion. Hides are for sitting in silence or near silence, making as little noise as you can. But it's not just children that can make noise. I was in the Bittern Hide at Lee Valley a while back and some guide was showing some people of the older generation around. This guide was stomping up and down and eating a noisey packet of crisps proclaiming he hadn't seen the bittern for quite some time...erm...really? There's a surprise :bang:

Don't even get me started on the guy that came in with two children and his dog :gag:

The trains and planes wouldn't scare the birds away as much as a human voice would. Same thing when in your car, you can drive as close as you like to most species but get out the car and you wno't get within 30 feet half the time.
 
Rethinking this, I tend to agree with RP that the hides should be acceptably quiet, utter silence i think is a bit OTT, but going back to the OP, Elmer Fudd in the camo showed a remarkable lack of tact and sensitivity. Was it me, and with mothers permission of course, I would have let the lad have a careful look through the view finder quitely explaining why he should be quiet as a mouse.
 
iant said:
Rethinking this, I tend to agree with RP that the hides should be acceptably quiet, utter silence i think is a bit OTT, but going back to the OP, Elmer Fudd in the camo showed a remarkable lack of tact and sensitivity. Was it me, and with mothers permission of course, I would have let the lad have a careful look through the view finder quitely explaining why he should be quiet as a mouse.
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Well, near silence is probably more what I'd go for so your quite right lol. I didn't mean 'actual' silence as that would require no breathing, moving or anything lol
 
HoppyUK said:
BB, I'm sure your child was not behaving badly, or unexpectedly.

But I question your judgement in taking him there in the first place. It's a bird watching hide, where you watch birds, in silence because they are easily scared by sudden noise, usually with binoculars and/or long lens and camera. Not a Sony compact.

If you want to teach him photography (unlikely at that age, but it's your choice) let him take pictures of his friends. If you want to teach him ornithology, look in the garden. Don't take him to an old quarry full of water and no birds! I tried both subjects with my two kids, but neither of them took the remotest interest until they were teenagers.

Familiar and regular noise like trains does not usually scare birds.

No, it wasn't me - I don't have a 5D.
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I too would question whether a bird hide was the best place to take a 4 year old. Children are noisy by design and I have no problem with that - in the right place. I have to agree with Hoppy that there are better places to try to introduce a 4 year old to photography. This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier inasmuch that the love parents feel for their offspring's seem to make them loose sight of the fact that their little darlings might just be annoying to others.
 
The point is, the OP knows the correct behaviour for children in a resturant environment and abides by it. So why not the same level of understanding in a bird hide?

And having been corrected, apparently politely, he then reacts by wanting to swear at the innocent photographer.
 
Borats Baby said:
I would never let my kids roam in and out of tables at a restaraunt.

And they know it !!!!

My lad was not being obnoxious, he was just being a (well behaved) 4 year old !
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Can you believe the mothers comment was 'she's only playing and not doing any harm'. As it happened we had a conversation later when we got back to their place for coffee and the father actually conceded that if he really thought about it, his daughter was doing the very thing that used to annoy him beyond words before he had children of his own. That didn't go down well with mummy I can tell you :lol:
 
knocker said:
i absolutly hate children of all ages, nobody knows how much i hate them :suspect: because of my hatred i tend to keep as far away as i can from them to avoid any problems with parents and my seriously short temper in these matters.....my hatred means just seeing a child approaching will make me move in the opposite direction (think monsters inc....children ARE toxic :D ) if camo man was not happy with bb arriving with his 4 year old, he could have moved instead of bleating about noise, i don't say anything to parents with noisey kids, i just go elsewhere.......he should try it !
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BRASH said:
Strange dude:thinking: As a father it's difficult to comprehend that attitude:shake:. Hey, ho.:eek:
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And that is where people like us fall foul. We can understand why parents feel the way they do and make allowances. Parents just think we are weird for having such a strong dislike of kids and make no allowances in return. The hostility I have recieved from some folk because of the way I feel is staggering.

HoppyUK said:
BB, I'm sure your child was not behaving badly, or unexpectedly.

But I question your judgement in taking him there in the first place. It's a bird watching hide, where you watch birds, in silence because they are easily scared by sudden noise, usually with binoculars and/or long lens and camera. Not a Sony compact.
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I guess this is what I think. There are some activities that are perfect for kids to enjoy - photography being one of them. I know I did when I was young. But some places have a reasonable expected level of behavour - and IMO bird hides are one of them. I know you can't expect a 4 year old to behave and by the sound of it his behavour wasn't bad - but possibly still beyond the expected level for a hide - so what do you do?
Expect other people to make allowances?

(Oh, and the birds would be used to the noise of the trains an aircraft as thei are part of the habitat - good job you didn't use that one)
 
By saying you hate ALL kids is just plain ignorant. That means, by definition you hate my daughter, who you have never even met. If you were to say that to my face without any good reason other than "Oh, I hate all kids" yer damn right you'de get a hostile reaction and I'll guarantee you'd think twice about saying it again. If kids are not for you fair enough but you cannot justify saying you hate them all. Get with the programme:bang:
 
BRASH said:
By saying you hate ALL kids is just plain ignorant. That means, by definition you hate my daughter, who you have never even met. If you were to say that to my face without any good reason other than "Oh, I hate all kids" yer damn right you'de get a hostile reaction and I'll guarantee you'd think twice about saying it again. If kids are not for you fair enough but you cannot justify saying you hate them all. Get with the programme:bang:
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Was that aimed at me?
If you read my post you see it will actually say 'Strong Dislike'
Even so, thankyou for proving my point.
 
Should have told Camo Man to start using his Camo the way it was designed, "Get in the bush you fool, If I can see you then so can the birds - There sensitive to humans you know"

I wished I was there with you, I'd have quietly spoken to him and explained that he was probally, @ the age of 4, talkative in situations where he was not used to the enviroment.
 
I don't have children, and I've never really got on with them, but as an ecologist I think it's brilliant that parents take the time to introduce their children to wildlife and the countryside in general. When I was a kid (from about 4 or 5) my parents used to take me to country parks, nature reserves and the local duck pond and show me the differences between common birds species and let me use their camera to take pictures of plants etc. It really kicked off my interest and I've been doing the same thing ever since. It's nice that now I can take them out for the day and teach them things!

I don't think I went in a bird hide until I was at least 11 / 12, mainly because when we went for days out I was constantly asking questions about stuff that we saw and my parents didn't think it would be fair on other birders if we used hides. I don't really use them that often even now, mainly because I go out in my spare time for the peace and quiet and I do get wound up by other peoples' noise. The worst thing I ever saw was when I went to Leighton Moss years ago, and a group of three volunteers came in and started cleaning the hide very noisily with brushes while chattering constantly. I've never seen a hide empty so fast! :thumbsdown:

There's nothing wrong with a bit of chat in bird hides though; you'll always get beginners who want to ask what something is, or helpful people who've spotted something unusual and decide to share it. I know my bird lists would be a lot shorter without it!
 
RichardtheSane said:
Was that aimed at me?
If you read my post you see it will actually say 'Strong Dislike'
Even so, thankyou for proving my point.
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Not just you, a generalisation to small minded people who 'hate' (as one said) or 'strongly dislike' all kids. I find that attitude extremely offensive. Would you voice the same opinion about black people, old people, gay people? No I'm bloody sure you wouldn't but to me it's the same level of ignorance.

I'm glad I have proved your point, I'll enjoy the rest of my day now:D:D:D:D:D:wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:
 
BRASH said:
Not just you, a generalisation to small minded people who 'hate' (as one said) or 'strongly dislike' all kids. I find that attitude extremely offensive. Would you voice the same opinion about black people, old people, gay people? No I'm bloody sure you wouldn't but to me it's the same level of ignorance.

I'm glad I have proved your point, I'll enjoy the rest of my day now:D:D:D:D:D:wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:
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I think what these guys are saying is that they hate being around kids or hate having kids around them - rather than hating the kids themselves.

I don't see a problem with taking a 4y old to a place, so long as the child is well behaved (which it sounds like he was).

What age is acceptable then? 12? 15? You try getting a kid of that age interested in anything to do with nature or photography. Good luck.

We should be congratulating the OP on trying to get his kids interested in something like this rather than letting him sit in front of the TV/games console all day....
 
Yeah, don't let the birdyman get you down!

Next time take an airhorn, thats my only advice
 
OutLore said:
I think what these guys are saying is that they hate being around kids or hate having kids around them - rather than hating the kids themselves.
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That's quite clearly not what they said. I'm just going on what wassaid.
 
you only have to ask yourself if an occupied hide is the best place to:

1. take a 4 yr old
2. teach photography
3. use a compact camera

A hide is a hide, regardless of whereabouts. Whilst he could have handled the situation differently so could you too. Thumbs up for trying to invoke an interest in the kid, thumbs down for where you chose to do it.

:popcorn:
 
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