iMac Screen Image Burn - Update : Absolutely awesome service from Apple

Marcel

Marcel

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Well, after having my iMac 24" (08) screen replaced under Applecare due to dark marks on it, a couple of weeks ago.

Last night I notice I'm suffering from image burn!
I was looking through my 365 shots in full screen via Bridge (so a grey background), and I can clearly see the burned in image of Firefox toolbar and address bar along the top.

mac_imageburn-20101125-195513.jpg


Same with the dock at the bottom, I can see the outline of the dock icons.

The screen is set to go into powersave after about 10 minutes (and I manually set it off when I go to bed).
I left it last night, and checked this morning, still bad...Went to work, then checked this afternoon when I got home and it had gotten better.

I'm bloody annoyed now. I'm following Apple's advice and created a pure white screensaver to run.
*But* I don't want to have to do this every bloody day...and to be honest, I don't think I should.

I've installed smcFanControl, and set all three fans to max. However, the CPU fan (which Im monitoring) is still only at 1198rpm and 111ºF (Depsite being set as the max speed)
Anyone else experience this?
 
I have no idea Adrian.

IIRC its an IPS? Theyre better than TN arent they? Was the 20" TN panels, and the 24" IPS?
 
Do you have brightness on "nuclear" at all? Unfortunately, LCDs are not immune to burning - many people think they are, but they aren't.

As to TN vs IPS, IPS are better at displaying colour, but are still susceptible to burn in.
 
My Sony monitor has been left on for days at a time with no screensaver or anything and there's no sign of burn on it. And I would have expected a TP logo burned in to it by now with the amount of time I've wasted spent here.
 
Mines set to full brightness with no screensaver and Firefox running constantly, not even the slightest hint of screen burn here.
 
The brightness is set to the lowest, always is.

The screensaver set to never kick in...Just go into powersave after 10 minutes.
I admit I use Firefox mostly, but it's hardly the most GPU intensive of programs is it?
I could understand after a long time video / graphics rendering, it getting hot and creating a bit of temporary image persistence, but from daily use?

Not happy about it at all TBH. This is a completely new panel/screen. The last one never did this.

Just tried taking a photo of it.
It seems that when the screen is white or black, the persistence can't be seen. It's mostly really noticable when the screen is greyish.

imac_screen_burn-20101126-192655.jpg

You can clearly see the date from the dock....(It's actually there twice...from other programs pushing the icon along)

I've got it booked into the Genius bar at the Trafford Centre on Tuesday. I could have tomorrow, late afternoon, but I don't think I'll have the time. Besides, just before 'pub' time probably isn't the best time to be getting a Genius' full attention.

However, with me having a new screen, I think I may have a fight on my hands this time, proving how unacceptable it is.
 
Also, it's not just image burn...There are also 'patterns' and lines around the screen (much harder to take a photo of with the moire).
lots of chequered / hash patterns
 
Oops, also forgot. I believe it may be heat related. (Holding the top left / back of the screen...it almost hurts a bit after about 5 seconds).

So I installed smcfan control which didn't work, so installed another program. Here are the settings Ive set and the resultant temps

The original temps were

CPU 39
Internal HD 49
Internal DVD 44
GPU Heatsink 44
(ish)

Fan_Control_%2832-bit%29-20101126-193313.jpg
 
Dust wouldn't cause the image burn though would it? It would cause dirty marks though :p
 
Are you noticing this 'burn' if you select a white desktop?
 
No. Ive done as Apple suggest and left a blank white screensaver on, and disabled energy saving.
Left it overnight and it was a bit better.
Was on the mac for an hour or two today and it's gone worse than ever now. Burnin, lines everywhere, hatched crossed patterns all over.

Doesnt show up on a white screen or a black screen really. More anything inbetween.
 
An update :

I took it to the Apple store in the Trafford Centre yesterday for a Genius Bar appointment.
Because it had been powered off etc, the problem wasn't really there, but I'd prepared and saved some photos of it.

Result. He agreed straight away that something was wrong, and because it was only after the new screen was fitted, he said he'll get them to fit a new screen again.
He also said it would be wise to replace the graphics card too because he doesn't want me having to bring it back in again.

So Apple Genius Ian (I think he's a Manager)... thanks for a very helpful visit. Customer service exactly how it should be. :thumbs:

Let's hope when the parts are in and it's repaired, it'll be sorted.


However I do have one query. I have Applecare.
Under the printout they give me, which is a quote. It lists the price...then the next column is cost.

Screen, price, 305.00, amount due 0.00
Hardware repair level 2, price 24.00, cost 0.00
but
Airwall Video Card, M76XT, price 5.00, cost 5.00
(plus vat, making it 5.88)

Howcome it says I have to pay 5.88 for the video card?
Is it an upgrade or something?
 
Just googled, it's the Airwall, not the video card.

So the video card isn't listed under parts, but it does say under proposed resolution "Please replace both the display and the video card"

I'm confused.
 
922-8589.gif

looks like a 'wall'to redirect air flow from GPU (?)
 
Aye, thats the puppy (from when I googled before).

However, Im confused as to why the new GFX card is not listed on the repair sheet.
 
Has he made a mistake and selected the wrong product?
 
Oooh could be. I might ring them tomorrow, best to make sure.
 
they probably didnt replace it, i would not think that a GPU would cause image retention to be honest. likewise the techie that did the work probably thought the same. in my experience first line support (essentially the apple genuises) tend to want to replace every component without proper diagnosis and promise this to the end user without thinking of the time/cost involved for the unnecessary work/parts. :)

tis a very odd issue though, ive never ever seen image retention on a non-plasma screen..
 
Last edited:
neil_g said:
tis a very odd issue though, ive never ever seen image retention on a non-plasma screen..
Click to expand...

I have a 24" iMac and mine shows signs of the previous image for a fair while after the image has changed, usually after photoshop, but I can't see it on the screen after it's been turned off.
 
neil_g said:
they probably didnt replace it, i would not think that a GPU would cause image retention to be honest. likewise the techie that did the work probably thought the same. in my experience first line support (essentially the apple genuises) tend to want to replace every component without proper diagnosis and promise this to the end user without thinking of the time/cost involved for the unnecessary work/parts. :)

tis a very odd issue though, ive never ever seen image retention on a non-plasma screen..
Click to expand...

Neil they haven't done the work yet. Waiting on the parts to come in.
This is just the quote sheet they print out first.....
 
Right. Well on Tuesday night, over a week after I initially went in, I'd still had no phone call.

So I rang them to see if the parts were in and they said "If you get it to us by 10am tomorrow morning, we'll get it done same day"

My wife drove all the way for an hour with a bad foot to get it there for 10 am....and surprise surprise, I got no phone call yesterday....
Come today, still nothing, so I phoned them this afternoon...explained the situation..promised same day etc etc, dropped off yesterday morning. The woman said "I can't speak to the Genius team, I can only email them, this is an information line only".
So she said she'd email them and tell them I was waiting for an update on my repair.

An hour later, still no phone call so I picked the kids up from school and went straight there, 25 mile tround trip.

Explained my problem. Guy went in the back, came out and said "The repair is still ongoing". Told him I was told same day, he just repeated its still ongoing and hes sorry, and theyll phone as soon as it's ready.

Did a bit more shopping round the Trafford Centre and thought about it a bit more, and decided I wasn't happy, so went back in and spoke to someone else and asked for an ETA.

He went in the back and checked for me, came back out and said he can't give an ETA. I explained again, same day promise and he said "I dont know who said that to you but we don't promise same day turnaround"

I said "Yes you do, the last repair a few weeks ago (of which this is a repeat repair), you promised me same day turnaround and did it same day too".
"Ah, was that when we were in the temporary store?"
(Yes, theyre now back in the original and refurbished store)

"Oh thats because we had no room then, so werent taking many repairs in"

So Im back home empty handed, no mac and loads to do.
Very very disappointed in Apple.
The repair sheet says "Estimated time : Over 7 days", which I assumed included delivery of the parts (or maybe a stock selection on the ordering sheet)....

So how long does it take to fit a bloody logic board and screen?
I bet they havent even started it. If they haven't started it then why the hell did they ask me to bring it in, in the first place?

The fact that I can't even speak to the people that are fixing the machine is quite diabolical. Being unable to get tech advice without an appointment I understand, but being cut off fro them once Ive dropped my machine off is just plain stupid.

Add this to the fact, the repair sheet says "Please change video card", but the video card is part of the logic board, and the parts list says they havent ordered a logic board (I wonder if they keep those in stock instead?)
So I wonder if Im going to be satisfied once they finally get round to repairing it.

Grrrrrrr.
 
should be more efficient than that
 
Surprise surprise, It's now nearly 5:30 and still no update.
Looking online at the repair ID, it still says "Repair in progress"

Im half tempted to go down and just demand my machine back. This is disgusting service tbh. To not only be lied to in the first instance, but to be literally kept in the dark about what's happening.
 
if they cant give you an eta then my money would be on them not having the parts in and/or not started fitting them yet. i could tell you exactly how long i could strip down a dell laptop and rebuild it so im damn sure they can on their own product.

if it were me in your place id be down there kicking off, try using words like "not fit for purpose" and "im a moderator of a very large photography forum and have my poor experience so far detailed on there.." :p
 
Well I rang this afternoon, spoke to "Katie" and explained my predicament.
Was promised same day, three days ago etc. Was fobbed off on friday and I need my machine back.

She went away, came back and said she's spoken to the Genius team and they're doing it today, and Im promised that I'll be given a call by the end of business today.
I checked online, they shut at 6.

Still waiting for that call.

Im going in after work tomorrow, getting my mac back and telling them what a shower of lying inept ****s they are.
 
oh dear :(

thing is you probably wouldnt mind as much if they just said "we're really sorry, we're struggling to get the parts in on time so there may be a delay getting it fixed" rather than just BS'ing you with promises of calls that never come.
 
Thats terrible service. Have you tried e-mailing or phoning their head office? It might not help this time but you might get a free something for your trouble/pain.

To fit a screen and even a new motherboard is no more than 2 hours tops. I would agree that they don't have the parts or worse still (just speculation) something went wrong and something else was broken in the process of the job.

Either way a poor show from Apple.

Out of interest whats the standard cover on a mac book/pro on parts? Never had a Mac but am thinking next year may be the time to jump ship form PC to Mac land.
 
Well, they didnt phone yesterday, but my wife got a phone call today while I was at work, saying it's done and ready.

I went earlier tonight to pick it up. No apology, just a normal repair pickup.
She fired it up, it looked fine (although I did say I couldn't test it until I got it home and tested it properly)

Got it home......Seems to be better. Not brilliant, but better. There's one or two lines which I can see (and even my wife noticed), but theyre only visible at certain levels of grey.

So I'm unsure of what to do...Do I risk letting them have it back? Or do I just put up with it?
 
I'm going to look properly tomorrow. If the dock appears again (it isn't at the moment). It will make my mind up for me.
 
Well, it faded after a while so I thought 'Yay!'......

Then I looked again later, and bam, it had gotten worse again :(

Here's basically a copy past of what I've just posted over at MacRumors. I'm undecided on what to do now. I just want it to go away. At what point do they offer a replacement screen?

Hi

I have an iMac 08. 24". Purchased Octoberish 08. I also purchased Applecare (I'm in the UK btw).

For a while I was seeing dark spots on the screen, which looked like smudges.

http://www.marcelbooth.co.uk/m/forums/101006_0913a.jpg
and with the image edited to bring out the contrast to show the marks
http://www.marcelbooth.co.uk/m/forums/101006_0913b.jpg

I made a Genius appointment at my local Apple Store (Trafford Centre, Manchester). Took it along and he confirmed the problem and ordered a new screen and a new glass panel.
A few days later when the part came in, I took it in and had it back the same day. Looked fine.

However, a couple of weeks later I noticed it was now suffering what we used to call "Image Burn"...Well, "Image Persistence".
When looking at a full screen preview in Bridge (with grey background), I noticed the outline of the dock and various icons.
I also noticed the outline and 'imprint' of the Firefox toolbar.
I also noticed areas of 'hatched' lines (up and down, left to right).

http://www.marcelbooth.co.uk/m/grabs/imac_screen_burn-20101126-192655.jpg
It's quite hard to take a photo of these as the moire effect of the screen interferes with the photo.

I tried Apple's suggestion to rectify image persistence by turning the power saving off, and displaying a white screensaver for the same length of time. I left it for two nights running, and while it did help remove the 'burn in', as soon as I used the machine for more than a few minutes, it came back again.

So I made yet another Genius appointment, took it in, and explained that the problem only appeared since they replaced the screen.
I included photos.

He agreed, and as it only appeared since the repair, he would get a new screen put in. Also, as he didn't want to inconvenience me more incase I had to bring it in again, he would order a replacement graphics card.

After waiting for over a week for a phonecall to say the parts were in, I rang them and was told to take it in before 10am the next day and they would do it.
Four days later, after much badgering, I got it back today.
The receipt says they only replaced the screen, not the graphics card (which is actually part of the logic board I understand).

And guess what. There is image persistence problems again.
However, theyre not in the same place. The dock can be seen a little, but it's mostly on an area on the bottom left quarter of the screen this time. An image that I haven't actually seen display (like a toolbar, that has been dragged there).
Also, the same type of hatched markings (mostly vertical), which even my wife has pointed out.

When it's on a completely white or black display, they can't be seen, it's when they're displaying any shade inbetween, and it all can be quite noticable.

Anyway, what are your thoughts? My problem is that Im wary of taking it back in, yet again. However, I think it's unacceptable. I understand the position of never getting a 'perfect' screen, but to have this sort of problem on a £1300 machine is just not acceptable in my opinion. My 300 quid laptop displays none of this.
Add to that this problem never occured before they 'repaired' my imac.
Click to expand...
 
Just managed to take another photo of it.

I heavily processed it to make it incredibly contrasty to show you what I'm seeing

Shades-20101213-220748.jpg


Yes, that blue bar shouldn't be there. It's a burned in image of the firefox search box (which has been there for the evening, and is red...so not sure why its coming up blue).

Im definitely peed off now.
 
You need a replacement and nothing less, tell them you have contacted trading standards who have told you to demand a replacement as it's not of "Merchantable" quality, you might be suprised how easily retaillers/traders cave in when the above is qouted.
 
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