Increasing pixels - am I understanding this correct?

[Crotal Bell]

Sunday walk with the bridge camera and tried some shot bursts at a Redkite that wasn't really close enough.
When I did a heavy crop, as is often the case, the new image is a smaller box on my laptop screen.
I tried playing with resizing for the first time.
The shot burst images on my bridge camera came out at 2.76MP, when I raised the percentage to 20MP, I could do a heavy crop and still have a full screen image on the laptop.

So....I am assuming the increased pixels gives the editor more ability to stretch the original image?

I didn't know how these two would compare on here, but the original 2.76MP looks a little sharper? all advice on resizing and increasing pixels gratefully taken.

First, the original 2.76MP shot burst with heavy crop. This image looked smaller on the laptop screen but seems to have come out the same on the forum, I don't understand this.


And now the image increased to 20MP with a heavy crop.

 

[Box Brownie]

Sunday walk with the bridge camera and tried some shot bursts at a Redkite that wasn't really close enough.
When I did a heavy crop, as is often the case, the new image is a smaller box on my laptop screen.
I tried playing with resizing for the first time.
The shot burst images on my bridge camera came out at 2.76MP, when I raised the percentage to 20MP, I could do a heavy crop and still have a full screen image on the laptop.

So....I am assuming the increased pixels gives the editor more ability to stretch the original image?

I didn't know how these two would compare on here, but the original 2.76MP looks a little sharper? all advice on resizing and increasing pixels gratefully taken.

First, the original 2.76MP shot burst with heavy crop. This image looked smaller on the laptop screen but seems to have come out the same on the forum, I don't understand this.
View attachment 362248

And now the image increased to 20MP with a heavy crop.
View attachment 362249

I am sorry to say I can't follow your 'logic'! So let me put this to you?

The sensor of your camera is so many MP e.g. 20 MP

I will call that the complete frame of 20MP

If your subject occupies only say 50% of the frame and you crop the image to create a 'new' frame occupied entirely by the subject you then have available 10MP of the sensors original complete frame in view...... i.e. you have cropped off 50% of the frame and lost 10MP.

NB don't confuse MP with MB of the file size!

Can I suggest that you explain step by step exactly what you are doing in your editing software to allow for further insight by the TPers.

 

[Crotal Bell]

I am sorry to say I can't follow your 'logic'! So let me put this to you?

The sensor of your camera is so many MP e.g. 20 MP

I will call that the complete frame of 20MP

If your subject occupies only say 50% of the frame and you crop the image to create a 'new' frame occupied entirely by the subject you then have available 10MP of the sensors original complete frame in view...... i.e. you have cropped off 50% of the frame and lost 10MP.

NB don't confuse MP with MB of the file size!

Can I suggest that you explain step by step exactly what you are doing in your editing software to allow for further insight by the TPers.

Sorry buddy I thought I was clear. when entering the resizing part of the editing, it says the image is 2.76MP.
I have not cropped anything.
I assume the burst mode reduces pixel count, unless I don't understand the data in the resizing part of the editor.

 

[TG.]

I'm not sure why shooting in burst mode, would reduce pixel count, I assume you mean pixel size, in which case that wouldn't make much sense, (to me anyway) if I have a 45mp camera, and it reduces pixel count every time I put it in burst mode, I wouldn't be happy, but I may be missing something here

 

[Plain Nev]

So....I am assuming the increased pixels gives the editor more ability to stretch the original image?

Yes and no. You can't stretch pixels. But more pixels mean that you can print larger. The actual density of the pixels in your image won't change, regardless of how heavily you crop.

 

[Box Brownie]

Sorry buddy I thought I was clear. when entering the resizing part of the editing, it says the image is 2.76MP.
I have not cropped anything.
I assume the burst mode reduces pixel count, unless I don't understand the data in the resizing part of the editor.

What software and what exactly do you mean "when entering the resizing part of the editing..."?

I can only surmise (as I mentioned above) that you are seeing a file size of 2.76MB not MP that is a reason I asked you
'Can I suggest that you explain step by step exactly what you are doing in your editing software to allow for further insight by the TPers.'

PS if you were able to take screen grabs of what you are seeing/doing in the editing steps that would also aid!

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I'm not sure why shooting in burst mode, would reduce pixel count,

That would depend on the camera.

To make several exposures rapidly, the designer may decide to only select a proportion of the bytes coming from the sensor, thus reducing the amount of data being processed and therefor increasing the throughput speed. At one time It was common but it's much less so now, because processors and other components operate at much faster speeds and therefor can handle more data in a given time.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

the bridge camera and tried some shot bursts at a Redkite that wasn't really close enough.
When I did a heavy crop

These are all the points where it is all going very wrong.

 

[woof woof]

Sunday walk with the bridge camera and tried some shot bursts at a Redkite that wasn't really close enough.
When I did a heavy crop, as is often the case, the new image is a smaller box on my laptop screen.
I tried playing with resizing for the first time.
The shot burst images on my bridge camera came out at 2.76MP, when I raised the percentage to 20MP, I could do a heavy crop and still have a full screen image on the laptop.

So....I am assuming the increased pixels gives the editor more ability to stretch the original image?

I didn't know how these two would compare on here, but the original 2.76MP looks a little sharper? all advice on resizing and increasing pixels gratefully taken.

First, the original 2.76MP shot burst with heavy crop. This image looked smaller on the laptop screen but seems to have come out the same on the forum, I don't understand this.

I think I can see what you're getting at.

I don't think adding numbers to the file size in your processing software will gain you anything although there are I believe specialist software packages that will increase the file size for you. Mostly I think you'll possibly get the same results by cropping the picture and letting your image viewer fill the screen with the information which is left.

I'll try and give an example.

This picture was 6,000 pixels wide and 13.3mb. To post it here I had to reduce it to 1,000 pixels wide and 261kb.

I then did a 100% crop but still at 1,000 pixels wide which ended up as 295kb.

All of these pictures fill my screen when I look at them using my image viewer or my processing software.

So, in your place what I'd do is shoot at the highest possible quality and for things like birds in flight which you possibly can't get big in the frame crop as appropriate later. The picture could still look good when filling a whole screen. For eg. when looking at the 3 above pictures filling my screen I can't see any difference between the 6,000 pixels wide full image and the 1,000 pixels wide full image but when looking at the 1,000 pixels wide 100% crop I can see grain, maybe a slightly less severe crop would look better.

I think the best way forward is to experiment by taking a picture and then cropping it to various widths, like 4,000 along the longest edge, 3,000, 2,500, 2,000, 1,500. You can then look at them filling the screen and see what size crop you're happy to go to.

I hope that helps.

PS.
Printing can be another issue but even quite a small file can look good printed to A4 which I think is quite big remembering the print sizes I used to typically get when using 35mm film. For example I took a picture with a cheap compact which gave a picture 2304 pixels on the longest edge and a file size under 2mp and I was surprised how nice an A4 print looked as a whole picture.

 

[Crotal Bell]

What software and what exactly do you mean "when entering the resizing part of the editing..."?

I can only surmise (as I mentioned above) that you are seeing a file size of 2.76MB not MP that is a reason I asked you
'Can I suggest that you explain step by step exactly what you are doing in your editing software to allow for further insight by the TPers.'

PS if you were able to take screen grabs of what you are seeing/doing in the editing steps that would also aid!

Sorry I'm not being very clear am I.

It's Faststone free image editor.
There is an option called Resize/Resample and the figures are in MP

When I open an image, I have it full size on the laptop. If I keep the cropping to say 40%, the cropped image remains full size on the laptop screen.
If I do a heavy crop, the new image shrinks to a smaller box in the middle of the laptop screen.

If I then go into Resize/Resample, I can increase MP with two options called Width/Height or Percentage

As I increase with either option, the MP goes up in a top box where it states "New size"

And when I finish, the image on the laptop becomes larger and full screen again.

 

[Box Brownie]

Sorry I'm not being very clear am I.

It's Faststone free image editor.
There is an option called Resize/Resample and the figures are in MP

When I open an image, I have it full size on the laptop. If I keep the cropping to say 40%, the cropped image remains full size on the laptop screen.
If I do a heavy crop, the new image shrinks to a smaller box in the middle of the laptop screen.

If I then go into Resize/Resample, I can increase MP with two options called Width/Height or Percentage

As I increase with either option, the MP goes up in a top box where it states "New size"

And when I finish, the image on the laptop becomes larger and full screen again.

Ah!
I am not familiar with Faststone image editor so will bow out here and let those who know the software to reflect & advise on what you are doing.

Edit ~ looking at your OP again (on my PC , not the phone) although you talk about cropping & resizing ~ if I have read what you said right ~ the two images (apart from some changes to the exposure and contrast) are identical.....by that I mean the bird is the same size in the image area i.e. I cannot see that you have cropped it at all Edit ~ having looked more closely...

The first image is 1024 x 819 pixels
The second is 1024 x 740 pixels
The Red Kite is the second is approx. 10% smaller (gauging by eye with a straight edge) which tallies with the reduced image width of 740 px to 819 px

Hopefully other Faststone users can advise you as needed?

 

[Crotal Bell]

Ah!
I am not familiar with Faststone image editor so will bow out here and let those who know the software to reflect & advise on what you are doing.

Edit ~ looking at your OP again (on my PC , not the phone) although you talk about cropping & resizing ~ if I have read what you said right ~ the two images (apart from some changes to the exposure and contrast) are identical.....by that I mean the bird is the same size in the image area i.e. I cannot see that you have cropped it at all Edit ~ having looked more closely...

The first image is 1024 x 819 pixels
The second is 1024 x 740 pixels
The Red Kite is the second is approx. 10% smaller (gauging by eye with a straight edge) which tallies with the reduced image width of 740 px to 819 px

Hopefully other Faststone users can advise you as needed?

Thanks buddy, I may have to make a video so people can see exactly what's confusing my little brain.

 

[Gav.]

Hi Keith,

I think you're trying to increase the size of a 'cropped image' but due to forum limitations the increase in the image size isn't showing as the import sizes are the same.

As for the quality the increased size will never be as sharp as the out of camera image as you're blowing up pixels to lego

I don't do any resizing or use the program, sorry if I've missunderstood.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Hi Keith,

I think you're trying to increase the size of a 'cropped image' but due to forum limitations the increase in the image size isn't showing as the import sizes are the same.

As for the quality the increased size will never be as sharp as the out of camera image as you're blowing up pixels to lego

I don't do any resizing or use the program, sorry if I've missunderstood.

Hi Gav mate.
I wasn't "trying" to do anything.
I would just like to understand what I've done

 

[Gav.]

Hi Gav mate.
I wasn't "trying" to do anything.
I would just like to understand what I've done

Reading the first post suggests you've increase the size of the image?

when I raised the percentage to 20MP, I could do a heavy crop and still have a full screen image on the laptop.

The software has 'increased' the MP to make a much larger file and yes it will display larger and allow cropping ...BUT.. this will have a huge impact on the image quality, I think I've understood it and hope I've explained it ok?

Edit, @TimHughes has better info

 

[TimHughes]

@Crotal Bell what happens in the adobe products is described here https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/advanced-cropping-resizing-resampling-photoshop.html. Faststone will be different but likely similar. Some tools like gigapixel also use AI techniques to do a better job at guessing what the extra pixels should be when resizing to add pixels.

 

[Deleted member 95743]

@Crotal Bell What camera are you using and how many mega pixels is it.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Reading the first post suggests you've increase the size of the image?



The software has 'increased' the MP to make a much larger file and yes it will display larger and allow cropping ...BUT.. this will have a huge impact on the image quality, I think I've understood it and hope I've explained it ok?

Edit, @TimHughes has better info

Yes I think that's exactly what's happening, and the image size and lower quality seems to back this up/
I think we got there.

 

[Crotal Bell]

@Crotal Bell What camera are you using and how many mega pixels is it.

On this occasion it was the FZ82 bridge camera, which is 18MP.

 

[Deleted member 95743]

On this occasion it was the FZ82 bridge camera, which is 18MP.

So why aren't you shooting at 18mp instead of 2.76mp?

 

[john.margetts]

So why aren't you shooting at 18mp instead of 2.76mp?

Because his camera reduces the size of the images when in burst mode - the fewer pixels means that the camera can produce images faster.

 

[Crotal Bell]

So why aren't you shooting at 18mp instead of 2.76mp?

This is a budget camera, I think the shot burst greatly reduces pixels

 

[Deleted member 95743]

Because his camera reduces the size of the images when in burst mode - the fewer pixels means that the camera can produce images faster.

This is a budget camera, I think the shot burst greatly reduces pixels

 

[Box Brownie]

On this occasion it was the FZ82 bridge camera, which is 18MP.

I have looked at the manual and there appear to be two aspects referring to "burst"....

One is in regard to 4k Photo Shooting where this is stated..

Recording mode:
You can take burst pictures of approximately 8 million pixels with a burst rate of 30 fps.

So if the 18MP drops to approx 8MP @ 30 FPS, is there a setting perhaps 60fps where it records at under 3MP ???

Edit ~ I should have refreshed as @L320Rio has found and posted the same information

 

[Crotal Bell]

I have looked at the manual and there appear to be two aspects referring to "burst"....

One is in regard to 4k Photo Shooting where this is stated..

Recording mode:
You can take burst pictures of approximately 8 million pixels with a burst rate of 30 fps.

So if the 18MP drops to approx 8MP @ 30 FPS, is there a setting perhaps 60fps where it records at under 3MP ???

Edit ~ I should have refreshed as @L320Rio has found and posted the same information

I wasn't in 4k burst mode, standard burst medium rate which is no-where near 30fps.
Maybe need to try that 4k burst mode more often.

 

[Box Brownie]

I wasn't in 4k burst mode, standard burst medium rate which is no-where near 30fps.
Maybe need to try that 4k burst mode more often.

Then to me the puzzle still exists, because the manual is silent on it, as to why in burst you appear to have such reduced MP files straight out of camera!?

Can you say (I have no time to look yet....?) What your jpeg settings are.... perhaps you are not actually taking "large size jpegs" but smaller ones???