Is DSLR about to die off?

[Cagey75]

M43 is dead, FF dslr gear heads killed it off, though they sacrificed Pentax in the process - burried them both with rolls of film - now the FF ML fanboys are doing same to the old fashioned dslr heads, but the even teensier iphone cam crowd are about to bum rush the FF ML posse, and boy do they have the numbers!

Seems like a very silly sentence that doesn't it? And then you realise that's about the level we talk on here daily

 

[cambsno]

Isn't that rather missing the point?

You don't need to convince the people here, you need to convince the people happily using their smartphones that they need something else.

More to the point, its the people who share pics on FB that seem to be taken on a 30 degree slope and/or are completely out of focus, and/or has a nice background but the subject matter is virtually pitch black!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Family and social photographs have moved almost exclusively to the Phone camera.
For the majority of the population they are now the most appropriate and convenient tool for the Job.
the pocket sized camera is virtually dead in the water. However aspiring photographers are not the general population.
Photographers have somewhat higher aspiration when it comes to image making. and feel that they need the attributes of a "Real" camera in all situations.
Format wars aside, that now entails a choice between a Dslr and a Mirrorless.
The trend to mirrorless is not a wish fulfilment it is a real technological shift.

As the boxes representing the various functions and abilities are ticked off in favour of Mirrorless, so the Tide turns in both demand and supply in mirrorlesses favour.
It is not a war it is a fact of life.

 

[Mr Badger]

Most? No. Some yes.

Two of the best sports photographers in this country switched to Sony last year. The news boys have been on Fuji for quite some time.

However I'd still say that the market is heavily biased towards DSlrs.

Personally I prefer them as I'm not an EVF fan, no matter that they've massively improved in the last couple of years.

But in the long run, like the demise of the petrol engine taken over by electric, I think that the march of mirrorless systems is inevitable.

That seems to confirm what I said (and meant) in my reply to the OP that you seemed to take exception to, i.e. we don't see that many press photographers with mirrorless cameras, and the pro use of the DSLR has not been taken over by mirrorless yet. With yet being the qualifying word.

It will be interesting to see how things go, and how quickly people make the switch (if indeed they all do). I agree with you (it had to happen eventually! ) in that I've never been a fan of the EVF either. Also, from a nostalgic (and probably irrelevant) point of view, I don't think a press ruck/conference will be the same without the atmospheric and urgent-sounding clatter of SLR mirrors; a few muted bleeps just won't be as exciting.

As for focus gadgets available on mirrorless, I'd much rather have Canon's eye-controlled focus system from the latter days of their high-spec film SLRs, which tracked your eye movement (you just looked at a focus point to select it and that was it), which I find so quick and easy; and they achieved that with 1990s technology, so how well could they make ECF work these days? Unfortunately, ECF was never carried forward to Canon's DSLRs, and I can't understand why none of the manufactures have brought eye-controlled focus back? Why make a camera that tries to recognise a face or an eye when you can make one that lets the photographer select the exact point of focus just by looking at it?

 

[YoshiK1]

What gave you that idea?

Yeah that may have been quite common for those that switched from Canon to Sony initially but I don't think that is the case any more. Most seem to replace their adapted Canon glass with native e-mount quite quickly as budget allows.

I only switched to Sony a few months back and all my lenses are all native e-mount.

Sony 24mm f/1.4 G.M
Sigma Art 35mm f/1.4
Sony 55mm f/1.8
Sony 85mm f/1.4 G.M
Sony 90mm f/2.8
Sony 16-35mm f/4
Sony 70-200mm f/4

All of the above lenses are steller, the 24mm G.M is the best 24mm lens I have ever used. The Sigma 35mm Art is much better on native e-mount than the Nikon mount version I had previously and the 85mm f/1.4 G.M is an amazing lens. The 90mm macro is far and away the best macro lens I have ever used even though it's only 90mm.

The current range of e-mount lenses is pretty fantastic only lacking affordable options (for most) at the long end but if rumours are true there will be an "affordable" Tamron 150-500mm f/5.6 lens soon coming soon.

For those on a tight budget there is the likes of the Samyang 24mm f/2.8, Samyang 35mm f/2.8 and the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 which all get great reviews are all relatively inexpensive and are native e-mount. The Sony 85mm f/1.8 is also excellent.

It's not an idea, it's based upon fact. The videos and photos I see online of pros using Sony cameras as well as vloggers, amatuers and hobbyists are all using Canon glass and some of these have been using a Sony body for years. Yes they use Sony lenses amongst others as well but they're still using it. You're just one person not the remainder of society. I once used Sony when the A7R II came out and did the exact same thing, I had a mix of all types of lenses but I still used Canon.

 

[alfbranch]

The market share of interchangable lens camera sales is already changing significantly. Though the general drop off in sales should be more worrying than what type of camera that delivers what you need. This loss of market will mean less progress all round and less choice.

https://www.43rumors.com/2018-camer...shows-how-bad-things-are-going/#disqus_thread

 

[jonneymendoza]

The market share of interchangable lens camera sales is already changing significantly. Though the general drop off in sales should be more worrying than what type of camera that delivers what you need. This loss of market will mean less progress all round and less choice.

https://www.43rumors.com/2018-camer...shows-how-bad-things-are-going/#disqus_thread


View attachment 237716

Nice

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The market share of interchangable lens camera sales is already changing significantly. Though the general drop off in sales should be more worrying than what type of camera that delivers what you need. This loss of market will mean less progress all round and less choice.

https://www.43rumors.com/2018-camer...shows-how-bad-things-are-going/#disqus_thread


View attachment 237716

The drop off in high level cameras was fairly easy to predict and it has nothing to do with the advent of Mirrorless.
It is simply that the market has reached a saturation point, where it no longer needs vast production to put high grade cameras into fresh hands...
Most photographers are already well satisfied with what they have.
The market in second had models has matured to the point that it satisfies many novice and improving photographers.
Digital photography has tipped over from being a Growing market into a full mature one.
We now need a very good reason to buy the latest model.
If you own a top Canon or Nikon model the chances are it is more than good enough to satisfy your needs for the foreseeable future.
Very considerable marketing effort will be needed to persuade you to buy something new.
And when you do, your high grade cast off swells the many shelves of second hand cameras ready to satisfy many of the newcomers.

This is the position we were in at the end of the Analogue age. We have come full circle.

Mirrorless has come at an opportune time for Manufacturers as it establishes a new reason to change your camera. it may not be any better, but it is certainly different. It also gives many new avenues for further development.
Mirrorless gives a new spur to the entire future of camera production and the way we use our cameras.
It will be a more gradual event than the Introduction of the Dslr, as what we have already works just fine, but there are so many advantages for both the manufacturer and user, that this change to mirrorless is now inevitable.
Manufacturers can not afford not to join the race.

 

[gad-westy]

Nice

Why's that? Or was it sarcastic?

 

[f/2.8]

It's not an idea, it's based upon fact. The videos and photos I see online of pros using Sony cameras as well as vloggers, amatuers and hobbyists are all using Canon glass and some of these have been using a Sony body for years. Yes they use Sony lenses amongst others as well but they're still using it. You're just one person not the remainder of society. I once used Sony when the A7R II came out and did the exact same thing, I had a mix of all types of lenses but I still used Canon.

You don't half talk some complete and utter nonsense. You said "everyone is using Canon glass" they don't, I don't.

Within my circle of friends who are professional photographers & videographers at a rough estimate around 60-70 of them are currently shooting Sony. Of those I can only think of 4 off hand who used adapted Canon glass and they only do so because they are new to the system, came from Canon and don't have the budget to upgrade to native glass at the moment.

Quite a lot of new users to Sony came from Nikon after being disappointed with the z series specs when released, I know several people in this boat. Absolutely none of them use Canon glass.

You made a sweeping statement which is complete nonsense, no point trying to defend it.

Perhaps basing your opinion on nonsense you watch on youtube is not the best way to go.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You don't half talk some complete and utter nonsense. You said "everyone is using Canon glass" they don't, I don't.

Within my circle of friends who are professional photographers & videographers at a rough estimate around 60-70 of them are currently shooting Sony. Of those I can only think of 4 off hand who used adapted Canon glass and they only do so because they are new to the system, came from Canon and don't have the budget to upgrade to native glass at the moment.

Quite a lot of new users to Sony came from Nikon after being disappointed with the z series specs when released, I know several people in this boat. Absolutely none of them use Canon glass.

You made a sweeping statement which is complete nonsense, no point trying to defend it.

Perhaps basing your opinion on nonsense you watch on youtube is not the best way to go.

It should be remembered that Sony took over the staff, research facilities and production of Minolta lenses, who had a long and illustrious history of lens making.
Sony are the inheritors and heirs of a continuous history of fine lens manufacture. There is nothing second best about them.
It is true that they have developed in ways Konika Minolta could never have imagined, but in no respects are they Johnny come lately. What they are to day is built on firm photographic foundations.

 

[Riz_Guru]

Now a pro member.

Pro fanboy now View attachment 237699

Can you get me a Pro Kit, willing to pay [emoji383]

 

[Deleted member 49428]

The DSLR actually died 5 years ago. Death is still building Up courage to tell the photo comunity.

 

[redhed17]

The DSLR actually died 5 years ago. Death is still building Up courage to tell the photo comunity.

Mmm, my D500 must be a ghost or apparition then being only 3 years old! No other crop DSLR, and I'm not sure about any crop sensor mirrorless can, equal or better the overall performance of that camera, even after 3 years. But of course the DSLR is dead, I should have a mirrorless with not as good performance. Yeah right.

It may have been a joke, but when something is still outselling the thing that is supposed to replace it, then it is far from dead. imho.

I personally don't think that mirrorless was a serious and mature option and alternative to DSLR's until the version 3 Sony's. I know that many people will have been using the version 1&2 Sony's, and other mirrorless options, for years before, but the V3 Sony's seemed to be a big leap in AF performance and battery tech. I have little doubt that the V3 Sony's plus the Canon and Nikon FF mirrorless will make the point when the inevitable transition to mirrorless being the majority of interchangeable lens cameras sold come a little bit earlier.

 

[Deleted member 49428]

Mmm, my D500 must be a ghost or apparition then being only 3 years old! No other crop DSLR, and I'm not sure about any crop sensor mirrorless can, equal or better the overall performance of that camera, even after 3 years. But of course the DSLR is dead, I should have a mirrorless with not as good performance. Yeah right.

It may have been a joke, but when something is still outselling the thing that is supposed to replace it, then it is far from dead. imho.

I personally don't think that mirrorless was a serious and mature option and alternative to DSLR's until the version 3 Sony's. I know that many people will have been using the version 1&2 Sony's, and other mirrorless options, for years before, but the V3 Sony's seemed to be a big leap in AF performance and battery tech. I have little doubt that the V3 Sony's plus the Canon and Nikon FF mirrorless will make the point when the inevitable transition to mirrorless being the majority of interchangeable lens cameras sold come a little bit earlier.

It was. Redraft of the old Chuck Norris joke. But There could be some truth in the last part

 

[Cagey75]

The only stand out Dslr I can think in the past 5 years would be the D500, the D850 and the Canon 80D didn't seem to do so bad either. Not like in the years previous when there was a bunch, too many in fact, dslr bodies incoming at all levels. Nikon had the D3xxx, D5xxx and D7xxx series on the go, seemed to be updates yearly at one point, with only minor changes each time. Canon the same, what seemed like a mass of various entry level to mid range dslr that confused even the most hardcore Canon fans. ML definitely had a major impact, and thankfully so I'd say, or we'd just be getting more and more of the same old updates.

Maybe it's a case that the manufacturers were too complacent, thinking the odd upgrade was enough for people to fork out for pretty much the same again and they didn't foresee the ML uprising? I think this will start to happen with all these ML bodies too. Canon will bring out another R, a high res one, but what else will they add to make it worthwhile over just a MP boost? Decent 4K? which will only catch them up with the M43 system whether anyone likes to admit it or not - or will they continue to omit features to secure other very similar future models? I'm sure they will all start to include IBIS and full touch screen support and vary-angle screens eventually. Why not now? Because then what can they offer later on? we're already beyond most shooter's needs in terms of AF, DR and ISO performance. It's going to be mostly video upgrades for a while yet IMO, and those who don't use that feature at all will be satisfied enough with all the sales on Dslr

 

[Riz_Guru]

Sony the new Market leader?

I have always said DSLR's will eventually die, I think they have a good 2 - 3 years of life left in them.

 

[Brom]

The only stand out Dslr I can think in the past 5 years would be the D500,

Totally agree with you. I owned a D500 before moving to the 'Dark Side' with the Sony A9 (and a7r3 and an A6500 for street), it's an amazing camera (D500), however, for me at the moment the A9 is better. The reasons why don't matter, for me it's just better. The best camera is the one that works for you, new or old, who cares, if you like it and it does what you want, no other will beat it.

 

[snerkler]

Sony the new Market leader?

I have always said DSLR's will eventually die, I think they have a good 2 - 3 years of life left in them.

That's me stuffed then, according to Mr Northrup my m4/3 will die, and now my D850 will die too. I'll give them both a good burial

 

[YoshiK1]

You don't half talk some complete and utter nonsense. You said "everyone is using Canon glass" they don't, I don't.

Within my circle of friends who are professional photographers & videographers at a rough estimate around 60-70 of them are currently shooting Sony. Of those I can only think of 4 off hand who used adapted Canon glass and they only do so because they are new to the system, came from Canon and don't have the budget to upgrade to native glass at the moment.

Quite a lot of new users to Sony came from Nikon after being disappointed with the z series specs when released, I know several people in this boat. Absolutely none of them use Canon glass.

You made a sweeping statement which is complete nonsense, no point trying to defend it.

Perhaps basing your opinion on nonsense you watch on youtube is not the best way to go.

I forgot you know 1,489,600+ users of Sony and asked them all what lenses and equipment they're using (in case you're wondering this figure is from the 11.2 million market share of 2018 that Sony own 13.3% of which is much below Canon and Nikon but you knew this anyway since they're all in your friends list on Facebook).

 

[Petrochemist]

What gave you that idea?

Yeah that may have been quite common for those that switched from Canon to Sony initially but I don't think that is the case any more. Most seem to replace their adapted Canon glass with native e-mount quite quickly as budget allows.

I only switched to Sony a few months back and all my lenses are all native e-mount.

I got my Sony just after Christmas, NONE of the lenses I use with it are native - but none are Canon either!
On it's last outing three different lens mounts were used.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I got my Sony just after Christmas, NONE of the lenses I use with it are native - but none are Canon either!
On it's last outing three different lens mounts were used.

Another reason why mirrorless will kill dslr. Adapting any lenses you want

 

[simonbarker]

That's me stuffed then, according to Mr Northrup my m4/3 will die, and now my D850 will die too. I'll give them both a good burial

You're allowed to keep using them even if they're not making any more of them you know.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Another reason why mirrorless will kill dslr. Adapting any lenses you want

But only in a limited way. You have to use aperture priority and manual focus. Lenses with out these options are a no no.
Probably the most suitable and easily used are old macro lenses.
certainly not enough to kill anything.
I could use any of my old OM or pentax lenses, but the only one that I actually use is the 50mm F4 Macro.

 

[soupdragon]

You're allowed to keep using them even if they're not making any more of them you know.

Not to my mind. If it isn't the latest and greatest you'll never get good pictures.

 

[woof woof]

But only in a limited way. You have to use aperture priority and manual focus. Lenses with out these options are a no no.
Probably the most suitable and easily used are old macro lenses.
certainly not enough to kill anything.
I could use any of my old OM or pentax lenses, but the only one that I actually use is the 50mm F4 Macro.

Sorry to be pedantic but I'm sure you do know that some AF lenses can be adapted to mirrorless and retain some maybe limited if not all of their AF capability. Actually... you probably also know that you can even get AF with some MF lenses now.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Sorry to be pedantic but I'm sure you do know that some AF lenses can be adapted to mirrorless and retain some maybe limited if not all of their AF capability. Actually... you probably also know that you can even get AF with some MF lenses now.

That seems to be true of same make specific models, and with a remarkably high Adaptor price.
I have not heard of one that has more than very pedestrian autofocus ability.
The MF ones seem to require you to to pre-focus to a point where the auto function can take over, but they are very slow.

I would regard all such things as possible, expensive, but very impractical.

When all is said at best all you end up with is an outdated lens on a modern body.
Rather like new wine in old bottles.
hardly worth messing with except as a fun thing to play with.

 

[snerkler]

You're allowed to keep using them even if they're not making any more of them you know.

Ahh cool, I thought the Sony FF boys would infect them with a virus causing them to spontaneously combust

 

[Cagey75]

That seems to be true of same make specific models, and with a remarkably high Adaptor price.
I have not heard of one that has more than very pedestrian autofocus ability.
The MF ones seem to require you to to pre-focus to a point where the auto function can take over, but they are very slow.

I would regard all such things as possible, expensive, but very impractical.

When all is said at best all you end up with is an outdated lens on a modern body.
Rather like new wine in old bottles.
hardly worth messing with except as a fun thing to play with.

Only metabones adapters are really expensive, the likes of Viltrox that do the same thing are in or around £100. If it's saving you a lot of money on pricey native lenses then it's not expensive, and they seem to work pretty good.

 

[Cagey75]

Ahh cool, I thought the Sony FF boys would infect them with a virus causing them to spontaneously combust

Only in their dreams

 

[woof woof]

Only metabones adapters are really expensive, the likes of Viltrox that do the same thing are in or around £100. If it's saving you a lot of money on pricey native lenses then it's not expensive, and they seem to work pretty good.

My Novoflex adapters cost in the region of £100 and they're just dumb adapters so I wouldn't say that an intelligent adapter in that price range was expensive.

 

[Cagey75]

My Novoflex adapters cost in the region of £100 and they're just dumb adapters so I wouldn't say that an intelligent adapter in that price range was expensive.

Most I paid for a dumb adapter was £20, that was a Nikon G (with aperture control) by K&F concepts. I usually just buy cheaper no frills ones for £10 or less and they work just fine. The Viltrox speed boosters and pass through adapters are very popular now because they are 1/5th the price of a metabones and do the same thing. QC is the only real issue, some get excellent copies without problems others report less than ideal AF, but they can be tinkered with by opening a screw and rotating the element (on the focal reducer obviously)

 

[woof woof]

Most I paid for a dumb adapter was £20, that was a Nikon G (with aperture control) by K&F concepts. I usually just buy cheaper no frills ones for £10 or less and they work just fine. The Viltrox speed boosters and pass through adapters are very popular now because they are 1/5th the price of a metabones and do the same thing. QC is the only real issue, some get excellent copies without problems others report less than ideal AF, but they can be tinkered with by opening a screw and rotating the element (on the focal reducer obviously)

I only bought the Novoflex ones to see what they were like. I have three, Minolta Rokkor, Canon FD and Olympus Zuiko. I don't think I'd recommend them to anyone though as some of the far eastern ones seem as well made and as you say the only real question is QC. Get a good one and paying £100 for a Novoflex with Novoflex and Made in Germany on it seems nothing short of utter madness.

 

[Cagey75]

I only bought the Novoflex ones to see what they were like. I have three, Minolta Rokkor, Canon FD and Olympus Zuiko. I don't think I'd recommend them to anyone though as some of the far eastern ones seem as well made and as you say the only real question is QC. Get a good one and paying £100 for a Novoflex with Novoflex and Made in Germany on it seems nothing short of utter madness.

I guess you can be a little more confident that they are set to focus to infinity, I have had at least one cheap adapter that did not, but luckily it was adjustable, many aren't.

Atm I have M42, Canon FD and Minolta MD adapters but bugger all, bar one, lenses to fill them. Sold off all my old ones, need a refresh, should be eBay hunting soon enough

 

[f/2.8]

I forgot you know 1,489,600+ users of Sony and asked them all what lenses and equipment they're using (in case you're wondering this figure is from the 11.2 million market share of 2018 that Sony own 13.3% of which is much below Canon and Nikon but you knew this anyway since they're all in your friends list on Facebook).

You said that all Sony mirrorless users use Canon glass this is complete and utter nonsense.

"Everyone uses Canon glass." Completely clueless. Just because you seen something on YouTube doesn’t make it true.

Try leaving the house now and again.

Not sure where the Facebook bit comes from bit weird then again the other nonsense you posted is a bit weird as well.

 

[YoshiK1]

You said that all Sony mirrorless users use Canon glass this is complete and utter nonsense.

"Everyone uses Canon glass." Completely clueless. Just because you seen something on YouTube doesn’t make it true.

Try leaving the house now and again.

Not sure where the Facebook bit comes from bit weird then again the other nonsense you posted is a bit weird as well.

:sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:​

In reply to you keeping on muttering about YouTube, that was one of the other options I gave but you seem to have been hung up on that, clearly shows that you don't have much to say considering the fact you're just repeating yourself in every post. You've also said in previous posts you've seen loads of videos so maybe you watch YouTube more than I - or did I mean 'Everyone'?.

Also I don't know everyone in the world especially those who use Sony so if you weren't so mindlessly narrow minded and naive you'd not get so hung up on the word "everyone" and actually use some common sense to realise that maybe from my perspective in all information (yes YouTube, magazines too and many other places oooooooo) that I've seen it's where people have for the majority used Canon glass on a Sony body which you basically agreed upon earlier on when you said something along the lines "maybe everyone did in the beginning but not so much now". Try thinking about this, maybe I don't follow Sony's every move because I'm not a fanboy like you and only looked into it back in the beginning when I moved to the system and when Sony first actually started gaining some ground in the market.

In a hope that you might now see some sense from this don't reply to me again because you're getting this thread off-track and we all know what you'll say 'everyone uses Canon glass', 'YouTube', 'Nonsense'.

P.S. You said this: You don't half talk some complete and utter nonsense. You said "everyone is using Canon glass" they don't, I don't.

How do you know 'they' don't? Do you know the millions of Sony users worldwide? Sweeping statement hypocrite maybe? Enjoy your evening.

 

[redhed17]

Not to my mind. If it isn't the latest and greatest you'll never get good pictures.

Good one.

 

[gad-westy]

It got a bit weird in here!

 

[Cagey75]

It got a bit weird in here!

Normal day then huh?

 

[Craigus]

So this went about as well as you could have predicted.