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  1. GreenNinja67

    GreenNinja67

    Messages:
    2,364
    Name:
    Terry
    Edit My Images:
    Yes

    No worries, whatever works for you Anton :D
     
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  2. GeeJay57

    GeeJay57

    Messages:
    1,532
    Name:
    Glenn
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    Yes
    Having a larger, brighter viewfinder is a 'nice to have' feature that comes with a so called 'full frame' camera.
     
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  3. antonroland

    antonroland Inspector Gadget

    Messages:
    4,047
    Name:
    Anton
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    Yes
    I have never really noticed this difference but then I am slow on the uptake most days of the week...
     
  4. alfbranch

    alfbranch

    Messages:
    8,167
    Name:
    Alf
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    Yes
    Ah its great to see such a serious debate using b******t references. The usual narrow minded debate over sensor sizes messed about by two companies and the subsequent hype by the two companies.

    If you are actually after the ultimate image quality surely you need to go medium format or larger.

    What are full frame systems well the Fuji X series is full frame as is m4/3 as they systems built around a sensor size with lenses to match assuming that is what full frame means.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 10:13 AM
  5. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    15,199
    Name:
    Alan
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    No
    For me portability, usability and price comes into the equation. MF may give better image quality but if I can't carry and use it easily I'm probably not going to bother with it. The latest cameras like the Hasselblad may well have the portability and usability of a FF camera but maybe a few people who class FF gear as being affordable or justifiably priced wouldn't pay MF prices. Whilst I think an A7 is a reasonably priced bit of kit I don't think I would buy a Hasselblad.
     
  6. GreenNinja67

    GreenNinja67

    Messages:
    2,364
    Name:
    Terry
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    Yes
    Love your beach shot this morning @alfbranch

    Shows what can be achieved with a M4/3 body. Very nice.
     
  7. hamster100

    hamster100

    Messages:
    640
    Name:
    Doug
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    Yes

    Simon

    I have more or less decided to keep using my 70D and improve the lenses I have at present . I'm thinking about a UWA Sigma 10-20 F3.5 and a Canon 24-70 F4L as I only have the 18-135mm kit lens. I want to start taking more landscapes and the extra width would be useful. This way if I do decide to upgrade to FF then the cost of the UWA at around £320 won't hurt too much as i will only be able to use this with the 70D. I will then have a decent range if focal lengths (10mm - 400mm) and quality glass.

    There has been some really great and informative points made here and it if nothing else have made me really think about what equipment I really need.

    Doug
     
  8. Dangermouse1964

    Dangermouse1964 Squeaky Clean

    Messages:
    9,460
    Name:
    Pete
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    Yes
    I have just bought a D700 and having seen the results I had with the D7000 and now some test shots with the D700 then yes, the D700 is a fabulous camera, and I am loving FF
     
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  9. alfbranch

    alfbranch

    Messages:
    8,167
    Name:
    Alf
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Good points.
    All camera choice is a compromise.
     
  10. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

    Messages:
    1,037
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    But what a fantastic excuse to own more than one camera system! :D
     
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  11. Ste_S

    Ste_S

    Messages:
    61
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    Yes
    I agree completely - my newest camera is from 2013, and I'm quite happy using a compact from 2010 (let alone the film cameras from 30-50 years or so ago). I never really feel the cameras are a limitation, more the person behind it.

    But.. Your comment comes over as a bit harsh. Some people just like to buy new shiny things for a hobby that makes them happy. We're all guilty of it to some extent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 3:26 PM
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  12. Gaz J

    Gaz J

    Messages:
    2,900
    Name:
    Gary
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    No
    If you feel that FF bodies are unnecessary why did you go from a D3 to a D4s. By your reasoning the only reason you did it is to say look what I've got. You already knew that you didn't need it.

    Yes crop cameras are good, the best ones very good, but they are not as good as the best FF bodies and that is why people buy FF bodies. They may be overkill but it doesn't matter, the best FF are better than the best crop.
     
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  13. happy haggis

    happy haggis

    Messages:
    1,243
    Name:
    Trevor
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    Yes
    I have never understood why people get so hot and bothered about others desire for the latest and greatest of anything, it doesn't matter whether it's a camera or an iPhone or a new set of all singing all dancing kitchen pans, as long as there is food on the table and a roof over their heads. The only thing that matters is that it gives them pleasure surely?
     
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  14. Dangermouse1964

    Dangermouse1964 Squeaky Clean

    Messages:
    9,460
    Name:
    Pete
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    Yes
    Best answer so far, I wanted to try FF and couldn't afford a new all singing or dancing camera, and having been disappointed with the IQ of the D7000 thought the D700 was a good choice to see if I liked FF and I am pleased to say I love it and at only a few more quid than a D7000 but less than my other choice, a DX D7200..............best money I have spent on a camera body so far.
     
  15. Lensflare

    Lensflare

    Messages:
    2,534
    Name:
    Simon Everett
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    Yes
    Actually, I fell for the marketing hype, just like everyone else...the D4s was because I wanted video as well as pictures all in one package. I didn't NEED the D4s for the reasons stated, but I only found that out afterwards, which is what I more or less say in my reply, if you read all of it.
     
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  16. StewartR

    StewartR Efrem Zimbalist Jr Advertiser

    Messages:
    10,240
    Name:
    Stewart (duh)
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    Yes
    Great to see such candour.
     
  17. dave.hallett

    dave.hallett

    Messages:
    671
    Name:
    Dave
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    Yes
    My 10c is that FF *may* be worth it. If you can't afford MF (like most amateurs) or it's impractical, but you need very shallow depth of field, very good low light performance or are a landscaper who wants to print very large (as in well over 30"x20") and can't or won't stitch images. And no doubt a few other specialisms I haven't thought of, but you would probably know if you were one of those :).

    Otherwise probably not.

    As to those people who say that crop bodies aren't necessarily lighter, well no, not *necessarily*. But if lightness is what you need (e.g. in the mountains) I don't know of a FF body anywhere near as light as a Fuji X-T10.
     
  18. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    15,199
    Name:
    Alan
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    No
    The Sony A7 isn't exactly a behemoth. Put a 35mm f2.8 on an A7 and I bet it'll fit in the same bag as your XT10.
     
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  19. dave.hallett

    dave.hallett

    Messages:
    671
    Name:
    Dave
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    Yes
    Actually the A7 is lighter than I thought. Probably because it seems heavier by virtue of usually having FF glass on the front :).

    It looks like the difference in the bodies is less than 100g, and I find the XT-10 handles better with an L-bracket, which would take care of that.

    The difference in glass would likely be more substantial than the difference between bodies. There is no direct Fuji equivalent to the 35mm 2.8 to compare, but if I were going on a landscape hike, I'd want more focal length choices than that. YMMV, however.
     
  20. flashp

    flashp

    Messages:
    328
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Here's my thoughts...
    Be clear about what it is you need form a system and what you want to do with it.
    What are you prepared to carry?
    Will have you access to the best lenses possible for that system?
    Remember that software and modern PC's give you the ability to scrutinize your work at an almost limiting level of detail. By this I mean what is revealed can have you thinking your equipment isn't up to the job when in fact it is if you were viewing at 'fit on screen' levels of magnification on what is probably a 20"+ monitor or printing at typical sizes.


    I went through all of this recently after a holiday where I realized I wasn't carrying a heavy and cumbersome bag for the simple reason that I couldn't be bothered if I'm honest. So I determined that lighter weight kit was required, and less of it. I went for an Olympus 4/3 system with three lenses - a 24-40 f/2.8 Pro, a 40-150 f/2.8 Pro with 1.4x converter and a 60mm macro. These will cover everything for me, some of these equivalents I couldn't afford in FF terms, especially the 80-300 f/2.8.

    Now I'm not going get on my soap box about how brilliant 4/3 is and pointless FF is, that would be a ridiculous statement. In fact, I'd say my D750 was an utterly brilliant camera but it simply wasn't with me when it should have been. I now have a fully loaded bag with a carbon fibre Benro travel tripod attached which weighs in at 4.73kg and I hope this means that I'll be more productive and inclined to 'be there'.

    I'm aware of the likely compromises I've made and accept them in the belief/hope that in practical terms they'll prove to be academic.

    We'll see.....
     
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  21. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    15,199
    Name:
    Alan
    Edit My Images:
    No
    The beauty of some of the smaller systems, MFT, Fuji/Sony APS-C and Sony FF, is that you can choose what you want. If you need a larger lens and whatever advantages it offers then they're there for you but if you want a very compact body and lens combination you have that choice too. My A7 with the 35mm f2.8 fits in the same small Lowepro bag that my Panasonic GX80+17mm f1.8 fits in. There are also small 28 and 55mm lenses for the A7 and even the 28-70mm kit zoom is quite compact, it's the same size as the old 14-42mm kit lens I had for my MFT Panasonic G1 when the latter is fully extended. To have a FF camera that's the same size as a mini SLR MFT body is quite a nice thing, IMO :D
     
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