Is it time now to sort out young drivers

boogie man said:
Ok but what do you suggest we do about it?
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I was wondering this as well. What would he suggest we do to sort out the rest of the drivers who cause deaths on our roads, or should we just pick on the young because they're an easy target?

Just to add: I see drivers being idiots on the roads every time I go out. I'd say 90% of them are over 40!
 
Sorry - this is crazy.

Sure, a few young idiots have killed themselves being silly. It will happen in any way be it bikes, scooters, cliff jumping etc...

My son has been driving a year. Had a black box. Insurance co have monitored it and he has a very high score. No black box needed for his 2nd year as they see his driving is good. The only crash any of his mates have been in was when one of them was driving with my son and a couple of others and a woman overtook on a bend on a flyover (single track) and then walked away after the crash (mid 30s and obviously high on something) so nothing they could do and 100% not their fault. I have been with him many times and he is a better driver than most on the roads. They all give each other lifts to/from pub on a 'rota' so they can all enjoy a beer and not take the risk of driving home or paying for taxis.

IMO, the worst drivers I see are normally over 70 who dont seem to know what speed they should drive at, and who pull out without checking the road is clear!
 
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cambsno said:
Sorry - this is crazy.

Sure, a few young idiots have killed themselves being silly. It will happen in any way be it bikes, scooters, cliff jumping etc...

My son has been driving a year. Had a black box. Insurance co have monitored it and he has a very high score. No black box needed for his 2nd year as they see his driving is good. The only crash any of his mates have been in was when one of them was driving with my son and a couple of others and a woman overtook on a bend on a flyover (single track) and then walked away after the crash (mid 30s and obviously high on something) so nothing they could do and 100% not their fault. I have been with him many times and he is a better driver than most on the roads. They all give each other lifts to/from pub on a 'rota' so they can all enjoy a beer and not take the risk of driving home or paying for taxis.

IMO, the worst drivers I see are normally over 70 who dont seem to know what speed they should drive at, and who pull out without checking the road is clear!
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A bit of over-generalisation at both ends of the age spectrum though. I'm 70 now and only too conscious of speed limits and so on, both minimum and maximum, and I've known plenty of older folk in their 80's who've voluntarily given up driving because they find it too stressful these days. They are safe, but other people aren't. TBH I expect to do the same eventually for the same reason.
The young have no fear. That's why they can do things older people can't, be it soldiering, skydiving, galloping horses or driving very fast cars. That's also why some of them fail catastrophically, but to inhibit them unfairly is counter-productive.
 
There does seem to be a lot of bad driving but I'm not sure which age group are the biggest offenders. I think we would benefit from a few more humans in uniforms and police cars rather than just cameras and a lot more checks and of course courts willing and able to impose fines and prison time. Looking at what goes on in my area I guess that there are a large number of people driving who have never had a lesson let alone passed a test and there must be a lot who are not insured driving cars with no MoT.

Sort that lot out and the roads will be a lot safer and driving on them will not be the pita is it often is.
 
Having a few police around on the roads would be good.

Like lots of things, though, there's a clamour to cut costs. Cutting costs leads to things, often unintended.
 
Pound Coin said:
Having a few police around on the roads would be good.

Like lots of things, though, there's a clamour to cut costs. Cutting costs leads to things, often unintended.
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Funny yesterday at a police incident on the A12, 2 of the 3 cars in attendance were unmarked traffic cars. So realised how many might be out there that you don’t realise
 
The police seem to be using unmarked cars quite a bit, though how much is obviously impossible to say.
 
Mr Bump said:
We should copy Canada's system, showing that deaths among 16 to 19-year-old drivers there have fallen by 83%.

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I would like to see what our rates of incidents are for 'normal road use' - excluding idiots like those who drive on wrong side, take drugs and generally act like idiots. They will do that anyway regardless of the law. It simply needs tougher punishment on those driving without insurance etc... Make black boxes standard for young drivers, if they score too low license suspended for 30 days, then longer if they repeat it. No impact on the safe drivers! But will only work if those caught driving while banned etc are jailed for a decent time!
 
cambsno said:
I would like to see what our rates of incidents are for 'normal road use' - excluding idiots like those who drive on wrong side, take drugs and generally act like idiots. They will do that anyway regardless of the law. It simply needs tougher punishment on those driving without insurance etc... Make black boxes standard for young drivers, if they score too low license suspended for 30 days, then longer if they repeat it. No impact on the safe drivers! But will only work if those caught driving while banned etc are jailed for a decent time!
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We’ve just released a batch of prisoners because the prison estate isn’t big enough for all the jailings.
 
Training them to be more efficiently violent and potentially arming them seems a little unwise too!
 
Stop them watching video games that glamourise speeding and car chases. Car accidents hurt or kill! Most bikers do not get up and walk away like the Moto GP fellas!
 
How about teaching people how to drive in the first place, and with regular reassessments over the years?
My daughters (22 and 28 years old) both passed their tests many years ago and still cannot drive in my opinion. None of their friends can park or reverse. They've not been involved in any accidents, are very sensible but would have no idea how to react in a emergency.
 
The number of learners who are on the road with little or no basic car control skills worries me. At least motorcyclists have to prove a certain level of control before they're allowed to ride on the road. Off road places exist for such training for car drivers so why aren't they used? Even a car park could be pressed into service so new drivers can at least get some sense of clutch and brake operation.
 
stevewestern said:
How about teaching people how to drive in the first place, and with regular reassessments over the years?
My daughters (22 and 28 years old) both passed their tests many years ago and still cannot drive in my opinion. None of their friends can park or reverse. They've not been involved in any accidents, are very sensible but would have no idea how to react in a emergency.
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I agree. Look at my own driving history, which is pretty typical, I think, for someone of my age.

First vehicle was an old moped in 1961, 16 years old. Before that it was a pedal bike.

Moved up to a small motorbike, then larger ones.

Most people at that time then went on to a bike and sidecar, but I didn’t go that route.

Had a low-speed but bad crash, learned from that and so moved to cars.

Couldn’t afford driving lessons so learned by driving cars and vans owned by friends, gained loads of valuable experience that way.

Booked driving test, had 4 lessons.

First car was a wreck, couldn’t afford garages so had to learn how to maintain and repair it, which is important – most drivers today have no idea.

At 21 I was driving HGV’s, different vehicle every time, to put food on the table whilst at uni

Over time, have had a licence for everything except PSV. Also have experience of driving agricultural machinery, some of which is massive.

Now age-barred from everything except a car, and I can feel my skills slipping – but I can still manoeuvre in tiny spaces, based on past experience of driving countless different types of vehicle, and of course I can estimate exactly how much space say an artic needs at a junction.

Today, people don’t learn to drive, they learn to pass a test, which is very different, and they take their test in a small car that’s easy to drive, and then they typically buy a similar car.

Yes, some young drivers are incompetent; they are also wildly overconfident, they drive stupidly – but this isn’t limited to young people, and I think that there’s a real problem with some of the old drivers who just won’t accept that they are no longer fit to drive safely. They carry on because they want to be independent, but many of them are a menace.
 
Garry Edwards said:
had to learn how to maintain and repair it, which is important – most drivers today have no idea.
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While I could "do" the brakes and change a wheel on mine, I wouldn't know where to start on anything more complicated! Modern cars are not really suited to home mechanics like older cars were/are.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I agree. Look at my own driving history, which is pretty typical, I think, for someone of my age.

First vehicle was an old moped in 1961, 16 years old. Before that it was a pedal bike.

Moved up to a small motorbike, then larger ones.

Most people at that time then went on to a bike and sidecar, but I didn’t go that route.

Had a low-speed but bad crash, learned from that and so moved to cars.

Couldn’t afford driving lessons so learned by driving cars and vans owned by friends, gained loads of valuable experience that way.

Booked driving test, had 4 lessons.

First car was a wreck, couldn’t afford garages so had to learn how to maintain and repair it, which is important – most drivers today have no idea.

At 21 I was driving HGV’s, different vehicle every time, to put food on the table whilst at uni

Over time, have had a licence for everything except PSV. Also have experience of driving agricultural machinery, some of which is massive.

Now age-barred from everything except a car, and I can feel my skills slipping – but I can still manoeuvre in tiny spaces, based on past experience of driving countless different types of vehicle, and of course I can estimate exactly how much space say an artic needs at a junction.

Today, people don’t learn to drive, they learn to pass a test, which is very different, and they take their test in a small car that’s easy to drive, and then they typically buy a similar car.

Yes, some young drivers are incompetent; they are also wildly overconfident, they drive stupidly – but this isn’t limited to young people, and I think that there’s a real problem with some of the old drivers who just won’t accept that they are no longer fit to drive safely. They carry on because they want to be independent, but many of them are a menace.
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My history is similar to yours. Not HGV but have ridden bikes all my life, drove trucks for years and learnt basic maintenance and some mechanical sympathy.
As you say, people learn how to pass the test, not drive.
I spent many hours trying to teach my girls how to park on Sunday afternoons at the supermarket car park and still, many years later they get excited when they manage to park in one shunt, like it's a surprise!
All my neighbours are in their late 70's or older and it scares me to see how little they see and how slowly they react - the one positive I get from seeing them is that it reminds me each time I'm out on my motorbike to be that(huge) but more careful.
 
Nod said:
The number of learners who are on the road with little or no basic car control skills worries me. At least motorcyclists have to prove a certain level of control before they're allowed to ride on the road. Off road places exist for such training for car drivers so why aren't they used? Even a car park could be pressed into service so new drivers can at least get some sense of clutch and brake operation.
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Conversely - you can pass a test and drive anything. I am doing my Mod 2 on my 125 shortly, which restricts me to that size (cant afford to spend £800 on a full license).
 
Nod said:
While I could "do" the brakes and change a wheel on mine, I wouldn't know where to start on anything more complicated! Modern cars are not really suited to home mechanics like older cars were/are.
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You're right. If I lift the bonnet of my car I don't even know what most of the bits are, and most of them are hidden from view anyway.

But, if (for example) my car steers badly, or brakes badly, or if a wheel bearing is loose, my previous experience will make me notice it and get it dealt with immediately.
I'm not saying that we should go back to the bad old days, I'm just trying to point out that the past trained us better.

As an analogy, I think that I probably understand the principles of photography better than some, simply because of my experience of film/plate photography. We had to learn from our mistakes, not just keep pressing the magic button in the hope that 1000 shots will produce 1 decent one.

Back to old drivers, I have an elderly neighbour who simply can't reverse at all, which isn't ideal as we live at the end of a cul-de-sac but she won't stop driving. I've lost count of the number of times I've gone out to my car, she has just happened to be there, "Hi Garry, how are you? Since you're here, do you think you can turn my car round?"
 
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cambsno said:
Conversely - you can pass a test and drive anything. I am doing my Mod 2 on my 125 shortly, which restricts me to that size (cant afford to spend £800 on a full license).
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Only if you're over 24 (IIRC). Under 24s are restricted to a certain power limit. You might be allowed more power when younger after a few years of riding restricted bikes.
 
Garry Edwards said:
You're right. If I lift the bonnet of my car I don't even know what most of the bits are, and most of them are hidden from view anyway.

But, if (for example) my car steers badly, or brakes badly, or if a wheel bearing is loose, my previous experience will make me notice it and get it dealt with immediately.
I'm not saying that we should go back to the bad old days, I'm just trying to point out that the past trained us better.

As an analogy, I think that I probably understand the principles of photography better than some, simply because of my experience of film/plate photography. We had to learn from our mistakes, not just keep pressing the magic button in the hope that 1000 shots will produce 1 decent one.

Back to old drivers, I have an elderly neighbour who simply can't reverse at all, which isn't ideal as we live at the end of a cul-de-sac but she won't stop driving. I've lost count of the number of times I've gone out to my car, she has just happened to be there, "Hi Garry, how are you? Since you're here, do you think you can turn my car round?"
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I was often to be found %ugger!ng about with plugs,points, condensors, rotor arms and distibutor caps...Now? Wouldn't have a clue. Do they still have them, if so where...under the heated passenger seat?
 
When I learned to drive in 1985/6 it was in a 45PS Nova, practising in a 45PS Fiat Uno or 26PS 2CV6....when I needed my own car to get around I was limited to 45PS (Metro) as that's all I could afford insurance wise. Most people who passed then were in the same boat, no lease schemes which meant you could get a powerful hatch, GSi/GTi were things you had to wait until you got your no-claims bonus entitlement and could afford a 3-4 year old used car. Nowadays it seems that in the land of the never never you can get a hatch/SUV with approx 150PS on a lease which is far more powerful than the majority of cars were in 1986, but you'd be hammered with insurance although it's probably equivalent to what I paid in 1990 when I upgraded to a 75PS Astra 1.4 (£400 then).

It took me a long time to be able to insure myself on a car with 100PS, and my father wouldn't pay the extra for me to drive his car even though by the time I got my 136PS Vectra the companies were still loading the premium on the basis his car was 'powerful' to which I replied my own car was more powerful... Now I pay less than £400 on my Saab...

Back with the thread, we definitely need more presence on the roads... Far too many people with their heads down and occupying the middle lanes - most of this is adults spread across the age groups....
 
I'm trying to get a head start with my lad he's 14 and we've started to do some autosolo's , A £350 Renault twingo, a few basic car control lessons in a private car park and we're out,
I'm hoping this will be a good foundation for him, and when he learns to drive he should have a good grasp on car control etc.

plus subconsciously he has to listen to instructions and directions without feeling like he's being forced to do something.

yes he's killed a few cone's, and had an off road adventure last time we were out but I'd rather be sat next to him whilst he's making some mistakes in a controlled environment.




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