Is mirrorless the way forward?

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#83
I know that the sony marketing department wants everyone to believe this but Sony ore way down on the list of best sensors. Please google Panasonic Fujifilm GFX 100 then check the specs of the Panasonic S1R & while you at it do a web search for the Phase One XR. Oops I forgot about the Hasselblad's, Sony are much lower in the list than I initially thought.
See the previous posts ;)
 
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#84
Is mirrorless the way forward?
For some yes, for some no. The industry has got us just where they want us. Squabbling over which system is best or whether its the end of M4/3, the end of Aps-c, the end of Full frame? I don't think any system is really idea for every genre. Its down to personal preference and even that can be a nightmare.
 
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#85
Is mirrorless the way forward?
For some yes, for some no. The industry has got us just where they want us. Squabbling over which system is best or whether its the end of M4/3, the end of Aps-c, the end of Full frame? I don't think any system is really idea for every genre. Its down to personal preference and even that can be a nightmare.
I think we’ll see globe transition from DSLR to mirrorless just like we did film to digital tbh, with DSLRs being more of a niche second hand market. Can’t see it happening for a while but if I had the cash I’d be swapping my DSLR lenses out for native mirrorless as there’ll come a point where my current lenses will suddenly drop in price I reckon.
 
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Jason
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#86
I thought Sony made the sensors for Fuji, Hasselblad, and Phase One medium format cameras - maybe I'm wrong
You also have to consider that they might specify different grades and/or sizes of sensor; the post image capture handling is likely (more.like certain) to be different... A good sensor with mediocre image processing is never going to be as good as a good sensor with good processing... depends on the glass in front... how good is the focusing... is a mediocre big one is likely to outperform even a good small one...

Way too many variables involved to say sensor by X is always the best.
 
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Toni
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#87
Is mirrorless the way forward?
For some yes, for some no. The industry has got us just where they want us. Squabbling over which system is best or whether its the end of M4/3, the end of Aps-c, the end of Full frame? I don't think any system is really idea for every genre. Its down to personal preference and even that can be a nightmare.
I find this level of cynicism really sad. We have an amazing range of incredibly good cameras, lenses and other accessories available to us, effectively less expensive in many cases than ever before, and technology is being used to make photography easier and allow us to create ever more powerful and effective images.

If one wants access to the latest tools then mirrorless is going to become increasingly adopted, but if you're happy taking excellent pictures with a DSLR using slightly older tech then there's no reason not to continue doing so. Just as some people still use film because they prefer it - or even pour their own wet plates. Personally I love having a camera that can find and focus on an eye as it moves across the frame, allowing me to compose and take a better image than I ever could have done with a more conventional camera. I also really like having more than 14 stops of dynamic range, being able to pull detail from shadows and still keep everything looking natural.

I'll never feel that the camera is better than me - that's a conceit used to cover personal inadequacy - but it's great that they can help more and more in the creative process instead of hindering through limitations.
 
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Mark
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#88
I think we’ll see globe transition from DSLR to mirrorless just like we did film to digital tbh, with DSLRs being more of a niche second hand market. Can’t see it happening for a while but if I had the cash I’d be swapping my DSLR lenses out for native mirrorless as there’ll come a point where my current lenses will suddenly drop in price I reckon.
Imo the only global transition is towards full digital aka computational photography. Mirrorless is almost an irrelevant/unnecessary step on the way and whilst mirrorless is more relevant than DSLRs’ it’s simply a small step along the route to full digital. Is dslr dead? Absolutely. Mirrorless is however five minutes behind it on a long and rocky road!
 
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#89
Imo the only global transition is towards full digital aka computational photography. Mirrorless is almost an irrelevant/unnecessary step on the way and whilst mirrorless is more relevant than DSLRs’ it’s simply a small step along the route to full digital. Is dslr dead? Absolutely. Mirrorless is however five minutes behind it on a long and rocky road!
I think photography as we know it will be obsolete one day yeah, which would be a shame imo as I like the whole process of photography and it's not all about the final image for me. But yes there will be a time when computer whizzes can churn out better end results than a seasoned photographer :(
 
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Alan
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#90
I've been following a thread on another site about the latest ipone and how it could potentially be a tipping point with smartphones accelerating their take over of the photographic marketplace. There's one poster who claims to be an ex Hollywood type who's just finished a project and all the vid and stills were done with his phone and the client is of course very happy. Impressive stuff if true. But... I can't get over the fact that I just hate using a phone for taking pictures. I hate holding one in front of my face and trying to keep the composition I want as it waves about as I jab at it and then there's the sun on the screen problem. I just don't like any of it apart from the fact that it's always in my pocket and available.

Until phones get nicer to use for taking pictures for me I'm not too interested and will much prefer cameras and any and all predictions of phones taking over are irrelevant for me.

DSLR's may become a niche and mirrorless may at some point be niche too and although I do expect the camera market to shrink ever more as phones and their built in lenses and clever software get better I struggle to see any alternative to a camera for me and those of us who like the experience of using a camera more than jabbing at a screen 2 feet from our face.
 
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matt
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#91
I've been following a thread on another site about the latest ipone and how it could potentially be a tipping point with smartphones accelerating their take over of the photographic marketplace. There's one poster who claims to be an ex Hollywood type who's just finished a project and all the vid and stills were done with his phone and the client is of course very happy. Impressive stuff if true. But... I can't get over the fact that I just hate using a phone for taking pictures. I hate holding one in front of my face and trying to keep the composition I want as it waves about as I jab at it and then there's the sun on the screen problem. I just don't like any of it apart from the fact that it's always in my pocket and available.

Until phones get nicer to use for taking pictures for me I'm not too interested and will much prefer cameras and any and all predictions of phones taking over are irrelevant for me.

DSLR's may become a niche and mirrorless may at some point be niche too and although I do expect the camera market to shrink ever more as phones and their built in lenses and clever software get better I struggle to see any alternative to a camera for me and those of us who like the experience of using a camera more than jabbing at a screen 2 feet from our face.
Trouble is we are a shrinking market, in the same way vinyl records are a niche market, hopefull like record players there will still be enough choice.
 
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Soeren
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#92
I think photography as we know it will be obsolete one day yeah, which would be a shame imo as I like the whole process of photography and it's not all about the final image for me. But yes there will be a time when computer whizzes can churn out better end results than a seasoned photographer :(
Like knitting, carving, painting and drawing. We still have analog film, wetplate and a plethora of traditional processes that may be obsolete in the social media but serve a purpose in art and hobby.
 
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Tommy
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#93
I've been following a thread on another site about the latest ipone and how it could potentially be a tipping point with smartphones accelerating their take over of the photographic marketplace. There's one poster who claims to be an ex Hollywood type who's just finished a project and all the vid and stills were done with his phone and the client is of course very happy. Impressive stuff if true. But... I can't get over the fact that I just hate using a phone for taking pictures. I hate holding one in front of my face and trying to keep the composition I want as it waves about as I jab at it and then there's the sun on the screen problem. I just don't like any of it apart from the fact that it's always in my pocket and available.

Until phones get nicer to use for taking pictures for me I'm not too interested and will much prefer cameras and any and all predictions of phones taking over are irrelevant for me.

DSLR's may become a niche and mirrorless may at some point be niche too and although I do expect the camera market to shrink ever more as phones and their built in lenses and clever software get better I struggle to see any alternative to a camera for me and those of us who like the experience of using a camera more than jabbing at a screen 2 feet from our face.
iPhones are already being used by professionals. A videographer at one of our recent weddings used iPhone's to shoot a fair part of the day and have seen others over the last couple of years do the same.
 
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Alan
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#94
Yup. I believe it but for me it's a joyless experience and actually it's worse than that, for me holding a slippery oblong device two feet in front of my face and jabbing at it is something I just don't like doing.

The vid and stills may be acceptable or even good and whilst the handling for me is awful I can imagine many not noticing or caring. It is just a completely different way of doing things.
 
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#95
iPhones are already being used by professionals. A videographer at one of our recent weddings used iPhone's to shoot a fair part of the day and have seen others over the last couple of years do the same.
I can understand videos on an iphone, after all they're 4K aren't they? But what happens to a pro tog using an iphone when someone wants an A4 print or larger, are they going to be happy still?
 
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#97
Just a little story on smartphone picture technical quality.

It's a few years ago now that my brother in law died and my sister wanted me to print out a picture to have on display at the service. Sadly I was out of ink so we went to asda to have it printed but the machine said the file wasn't of sufficient quality and wouldn't print it. The attendant got involved and somehow forced a print through and it looked very nice and looked even nicer framed, was on display at the service and is now on my sisters wall.

The point of all this is that pictures viewed normally can be easily good enough even when people like us think they're technically rubbish and the print machine thinks so too.

I've printed older smartphone pictures A4 and they've all been ok for normal viewing by normal people. I don't know about A3 but maybe the latest smarphone kit is good enough for that now at least in good light and when viewed normally by your average non geek. Detailed landscapes, maybe not but other stuff including people pictures and scenic stuff maybe.
 
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#98
I've been following a thread on another site about the latest ipone and how it could potentially be a tipping point with smartphones accelerating their take over of the photographic marketplace. There's one poster who claims to be an ex Hollywood type who's just finished a project and all the vid and stills were done with his phone and the client is of course very happy. Impressive stuff if true. But... I can't get over the fact that I just hate using a phone for taking pictures. I hate holding one in front of my face and trying to keep the composition I want as it waves about as I jab at it and then there's the sun on the screen problem. I just don't like any of it apart from the fact that it's always in my pocket and available.

Until phones get nicer to use for taking pictures for me I'm not too interested and will much prefer cameras and any and all predictions of phones taking over are irrelevant for me.

DSLR's may become a niche and mirrorless may at some point be niche too and although I do expect the camera market to shrink ever more as phones and their built in lenses and clever software get better I struggle to see any alternative to a camera for me and those of us who like the experience of using a camera more than jabbing at a screen 2 feet from our face.
I can see a middle ground. As good as the new iPhone is there are lots of situations where it’s output will be worse than very poor.

I can see a chunky compact camera with 2-3 one inch sensors inside and a silly looking lens cluster on the front with 3-4 lens of different focal lengths. Perhaps even this lens cluster could be interchangeable. Using the combination of lenses and sensors and high end processing power I believe this would match the quality we are now used to.
Of course it’s just a clunky prototype and in time that would be shrunk down to smart phone size and eventually a chip behind our eyes ;)
 
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matt
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#99
I can see a middle ground. As good as the new iPhone is there are lots of situations where it’s output will be worse than very poor.

I can see a chunky compact camera with 2-3 one inch sensors inside and a silly looking lens cluster on the front with 3-4 lens of different focal lengths. Perhaps even this lens cluster could be interchangeable. Using the combination of lenses and sensors and high end processing power I believe this would match the quality we are now used to.
Of course it’s just a clunky prototype and in time that would be shrunk down to smart phone size and eventually a chip behind our eyes ;)
Not sure I'm up for chips behind my eyes, in front sounds ok, especially with fish :)
Part of the problem is going to be camera shake, for that a standard camera is much more holdable but in time I guess the technology will overcome that.
 
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John
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I was never looking for the perfect answer. Really seeking to listen to the everyone's thoughts and help crystallize my feelings about possibly moving to the mirrorless Nikon Z6.

Clearly technology is always developing. What maybe the right decision today does not guarantee that it will always be the best. The bottom line is that selecting a camera/system is very much a personal decision. And for me the move to the Z6 feels right.
 
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I was never looking for the perfect answer. Really seeking to listen to the everyone's thoughts and help crystallize my feelings about possibly moving to the mirrorless Nikon Z6.

Clearly technology is always developing. What maybe the right decision today does not guarantee that it will always be the best. The bottom line is that selecting a camera/system is very much a personal decision. And for me the move to the Z6 feels right.
The Z6 is a great camera, there’s a Nikon Z6/7 thread if you have any questions about the system (y)
 
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Jeff
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Wasnt there a phone announced yesterday that shoots at around 40mp and can be interpolated to produce a 100mp image
 
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Alan
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I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me :D

There's a blog I read by a long time photo guy who uses film and FF and has been a big user of MFT but he's recently sold all his MFT gear and shifted to the latest iPhone. All well and good but even at small screen sizes I can see issues that I'm sure wouldn't be there with MFT.

Here...

http://pindelski.org/Photography/
 
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