Is mirrorless the way forward?

[4tea2]

I would appreciate some view on my current thoughts on future kit purchases. I'm currently a Nikon D7000 owner and would like to move to full frame. My dilemma is should I go mirrorless with something like the Z6 or stick with SLR?

My feeling is to go with the Z6 and grow with that range. The option of picking up some second hand FX lenses is open to me while waiting for the Z range to develop.

How does this sound? Or am I still jumping to soon?

Any comments much appreciated.

Cheers
John

 

[KIPAX]

for me .. when choosing camera and lenses and asking advice.. Its a good idea to state what sort of photogrpahy you do..

 

[realspeed]

I am completely happy with the Nikon D810 camera. Price wise as cameras go it is not that expensive and being able to do quite sever photo cropping without loss of definition or sharpness never fails to amaze . Far better than the D800 that still has the AA filters. To get the best out of it I had to be more strict with myself as the D810 is less forgiving when hand holding. If into the video side of the camera this also is a vast improvement on the previous model.

Got no wish to get one of the nikon z range at the moment. Best to leave until the market settles down and any camera updates/corrections have been sorted out .

 

[trevorbray]

I went with the Z6.
Adapting F mount lenses works perfectly well.
I no longer adapt as available native lenses cover pretty much all I require.
Native lenses are expensive especially when compared to F mount used.
Perfectly happy with my choice and experience so far. I bought mine last January.
No plans to change. Might add a lens or two as funds allow.
Wouldn’t go back to flappy mirror thing..
Have another mirrorless setup for long reach.(m43)

 

[Sky]

I can second Bazza's recommendation for the D810 - it's an amazing camera. They can be picked up at very good prices ATM too - in fact I think there is still one for sale in the Classifieds.

 

[sk66]

For me, the Z line isn't where I need it yet. I've been tempted by the Sony A9, but that lens lineup isn't there either and I would loose a lot of money in the transition.
I'm waiting for a Z body that can compete with the A9...

 

[the black fox]

I dabbled into mirrorless last year with a Panasonic g80 and 100-400 lens and tbh it wasn't quiet up to the level I needed up against a DSLR and I went back to Nikon thanks to a couple of good buys , however due to health and heart issues earlier this year I once again sold all of that and have purchased a Olympus omd1-mkii and wow it exceeds every DSLR I have ever owned ,they did a firmware upgrade a few months ago and to all accounts it has changed the total perspective with this camera . I am now turning out the type and quality of photos that I have looked for over a period of years . they are light ,fast and accurate . ..

so yes go mirrorless by all means but go for the top of the range models that encompass the type of work you do .trying to save money is not worth while

 

[Raymond Lin]

Thank you for the title change!

 

[Mintchocs]

My personal thoughts are, go mirrorless if the following are important, portraits with eye AF and being able to nail exposure as you are shooting without having to chimp. Of course as technology improves even servo tracking will match/exceed Dslr for sports. If you do landscape then I would not bother, save your money.

 

[damianmkv]

I’m sure I’ll return to mirrorless. When I left ( c 18 months ago ), a d500 was still away ahead of ML. I believe ( for what I mainly shoot ), this is still the case but the gap is closing

i watch the market but I’m not a pro and this is an expensive hobby nowadays

 

[redsnappa]

Is mirrorless the way forward?

The marketing gurus at the camera manufacturers would like us to think so but for image quality from mirrorless is no better than a equivalent DSLR.
Once mirrorless begin to improve on DSLR performance sales will begin to overtake DSLR sales.

 

[the black fox]

Also depends on what your subjects are imho Sony and Olympus are way in front of the opposition .. and even with mega Evolutions from the other brands .. they should both manage to keep at the front for the foreseeable future ..

You also have to take into account with what and how your processing your files ,not much point spending thousands on gear then shooting purely in j.peg due to lack of knowledge or sheer laziness .. and I know quiet a few people that do this more money than sense

 

[4tea2]

Apologies for the spelling glitch in the original thread title. Auto spelling correction!

Actually perhaps a thread would be interesting on "motionless photography" covering still life and subjects standing still for lengthy exposures

 

[twist]

The marketing gurus at the camera manufacturers would like us to think so but for image quality from mirrorless is no better than a equivalent DSLR.
Once mirrorless begin to improve on DSLR performance sales will begin to overtake DSLR sales.

Its no coincidence Sony sales have increased dramatically over the past couple of years and Canikon are jumping on the MILC bandwagon.

 

[MatBin]

I came to digital from film and I only swapped when the digital quality matched film, I bought a 5D3 and a raft of lenses for my needs then. I have recently dipped my toe in the mirrorless pool and bought a Fuji X-T10 plus 2 lenses, 16-50 and a 50-230, given the crop factor I have lenses that cover 24-345mm focal length. The quality of the images seem on a par with my FF camera and heavy 24-70 f2.8L lens and tbh I am amazed to say so, BUT, the test shots were taken on a bright day etc, so maybe they wouldn't be as good on a dull day with high ISO. I bought the Fuji for a go anywhere camera, to be dragged with me on a daily basis and for that it's brilliant.
Long winded way of saying it depends on what you want it for, what your budget is and if saving weight/ bulk is important.

 

[droj]

How does this sound? Or am I still jumping to soon?

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't matter. You're almost surely obsessing about the equipment rather than concentrating on the production of images. I'm no luddite but no equipmemt freak either. It's possible to make all sorts of arguments to do with features, usability, resale value, etc, but if what you have DOES WHAT YOU WANT, why fret about it?

Just get on with making images & developing your vision. Are your images competent, and do they mean something? The rest is just shopping - anyone can do that. Gear comes (mostly) from corporations. Images are personal.

 

[Brazo]

I genuinely see mirrorless as an unnecessary stopgap between traditional ‘d’slr cameras and the inevitable takeover of computational photography whether that’s via our phones or a dedicated computational camera.

Mirrorless is an electric car with a 1000mile range built moments before teleportation was invented!

But and a big but if your buying now then makes sense to go mirrorless.

 

[droj]

I genuinely see mirrorless as an unnecessary stopgap between traditional ‘d’slr cameras and the inevitable takeover of computational photography whether that’s via our phones or a dedicated computational camera.

Mirrorless is an electric car with a 1000mile range built moments before teleportation was invented!

But and a big but if your buying now then makes sense to go mirrorless.

You are a dangerous subversive and the thought police will be at your door as soon as they can start their Transit van.

 

[sirch]

I genuinely see mirrorless as an unnecessary stopgap between traditional ‘d’slr cameras and the inevitable takeover of computational photography whether that’s via our phones or a dedicated computational camera.

Well we are surely not far off not needing either a phone or computational camera, it's all been photographed already, all it needs is a bit of Googling and then some software to synthesise the image I want from the billions of photos on the web?

 

[Brazo]

Well we are surely not far off not needing either a phone or computational camera, it's all been photographed already, all it needs is a bit of Googling and then some software to synthesise the image I want from the billions of photos on the web?

Already happening!

 

[woof woof]

Thank you for the title change!

I was enjoying the old one.

I wouldn't wait for a computational thingamabob as we wont see one anytime soon and when we do many including me will very probably see it as awful... and when I take a picture of my wife I don't want some algorithm deciding I should have a picture of Edinburgh castle with a dropped in sky from Jupiters third moon. Thanks but no thanks.

On mirrorless v DSLR's I'd hate to go back as IMO mirrorless offers so much more. I love the ability to be able to focus anywhere in the frame and have face / eye detect that'll hit the target consistently, no DSLR can do that in OVF mode. I love being able to focus very accurately with manual lenses, no DSLR can do that to the degree it can be done with mirrorless. I love the in view histogram and being able to see the DoF and exposure and all the rest that mirrorless brings including the consistence and accuracy of focus with no worry about having to MA lenses so it's mirrorless all the way for me.

We all have to make our own minds up though so good luck choosing op.

 

[redsnappa]

over the past couple of years Canikon are jumping on the MILC bandwagon

Canikon have actually been jumping on the MILC bandwagon since 2011\2012. Nikon with their Nikon 1 J1 & Canon with their Eos M.

 

[Deleted member 49428]

The marketing gurus at the camera manufacturers would like us to think so but for image quality from mirrorless is no better than a equivalent DSLR.
Once mirrorless begin to improve on DSLR performance sales will begin to overtake DSLR sales.

There is more to it than merely image quality. Convenience, ablilities and speed are major factors for many ( as well as, for some, firstmover techfetichism )
Eye AF has been mentioned but the ability to see clearly what youre doing through a stopped down macro at 1:1 was a big Whauv experience for me. I generel I feel slightly blinded and behindered when trying to use a DSLR after my Mirrorless experiences. But people workk and feel different and thats why we at the moment are blessed with a plethora of choices.

 

[Deleted member 49428]

I would appreciate some view on my current thoughts on future kit purchases. I'm currently a Nikon D7000 owner and would like to move to full frame. My dilemma is should I go mirrorless with something like the Z6 or stick with SLR?

My feeling is to go with the Z6 and grow with that range. The option of picking up some second hand FX lenses is open to me while waiting for the Z range to develop.

How does this sound? Or am I still jumping to soon?

Any comments much appreciated.

Cheers
John

What do you feel you need that your current setup or an update of cammera body (e.g.D7500) can't provide?

 

[twist]

Canikon have actually been jumping on the MILC bandwagon since 2011\2012. Nikon with their Nikon 1 J1 & Canon with their Eos M.

I meant with more serious offerings, they’ve seen how well other manufacturers are doing, incl Fuji.

 

[kawakneurder]

I would appreciate some view on my current thoughts on future kit purchases. I'm currently a Nikon D7000 owner and would like to move to full frame. My dilemma is should I go mirrorless with something like the Z6 or stick with SLR?

My feeling is to go with the Z6 and grow with that range. The option of picking up some second hand FX lenses is open to me while waiting for the Z range to develop.

How does this sound? Or am I still jumping to soon?

Any comments much appreciated.

Cheers
John

On the topic title, after having tried both, I think mirrorless is the way forward except for a very limited amount of people.

However, you should try both in a shop and see how they feel. You could also get a second hand FX camera for pretty cheap, use that for a year whilst getting lenses for it, and then later make the step to mirrorless.

However, giving you any advice on this without knowing the kind of photography you do, your budget, and even your physical size/conditioning is neigh impossible.

What do you feel you need that your current setup or an update of cammera body (e.g.D7500) can't provide?

What Soeren said though is great advice with which I fully agree, and you should take it by heart. What does your system currently not offer you, that you want to upgrade? Just 'image quality' in general is not a good argument, you have to be more specific. If you cannot find a specific reason, maybe you should rethink trying to upgrade, and instead invest in lenses, travel, workshops, techniques etc.

 

[Brazo]

I was enjoying the old one.

I wouldn't wait for a computational thingamabob as we wont see one anytime soon and when we do many including me will very probably see it as awful... and when I take a picture of my wife I don't want some algorithm deciding I should have a picture of Edinburgh castle with a dropped in sky from Jupiters third moon. Thanks but no thanks.

That’s really not what computational photography is about. I would explain it to you but I suspect you already know given its already here very much with the advances in mobile phone tech. Yes the quality isn’t there yet and won’t be for some time but it’s getting better and like film to digital the ‘switch point’ will come. And it will come imo long before dslr is dead.

 

[the black fox]

On my part a lot of it comes down to costs as well , yes you can spend a good few bob on long reach mirrorless lenses but a at the moment top of the range Olympus lens the 300mm f4 can be had bnib for just over 2k or cheaper if you go grey .. that equates to 600mm at f4 and will take 1.4 and 2x tc’s to .
There’s also the fact you can get readily available manual focus lens that work well cheaply to .

Small on size ,small on price ,big on performance what’s not to like

 

[Raymond Lin]

On my part a lot of it comes down to costs as well , yes you can spend a good few bob on long reach mirrorless lenses but a at the moment top of the range Olympus lens the 300mm f4 can be had bnib for just over 2k or cheaper if you go grey .. that equates to 600mm at f4 and will take 1.4 and 2x tc’s to .
There’s also the fact you can get readily available manual focus lens that work well cheaply to .

Small on size ,small on price ,big on performance what’s not to like

bigger is better.

that’s what she said.

 

[woof woof]

That’s really not what computational photography is about. I would explain it to you but I suspect you already know given its already here very much with the advances in mobile phone tech. Yes the quality isn’t there yet and won’t be for some time but it’s getting better and like film to digital the ‘switch point’ will come. And it will come imo long before dslr is dead.

Don't worry I know what it is and I don't think we'll see it tomorrow, well, not a full on version anyway. One day, yes, but maybe the cameras of today will still be appealing to some people

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Train hopping has always been a dangerous sport.
Camera system hopping is not so much dangerous as an extreme waste of money when done with out good reason.

The only logical driver for buying new or different kit, is to achieve something that your existing kit can not accomplish.
Even then it should be something you need to achieve, not simply to have the ability to achieve some thing that you will never need to do.

Few people have skills and needs that exceed the ability of a DSLR.
At the highest level of camera, In many areas, a Mirrorless exceeds the abilities of a DSLR, Only in a few they are still a little way behind.

It is perfectly reasonable to continue using existing DSLR sysems, However it is not reasonable to continue to buy into them, or expand them. As there will come a time in the next few years when support for them becomes more than problematic, and parts unobtainable. Digital cameras do not have the extended life associated with previous generation of manual film cameras. It is already impossible to find parts for many five year old digital cameras. Sensors for previous generations of digital cameras are no longer in production nor are the processors.

The choice between full frame and a Crop sensor is a different issue, but again comes down to needs. In many respects Both can provide as high a quality than a majority of Professional and advanced amateurs will ever need. A crop sensor now far exceed the quality that can be achieved on 35mm film. A FF sensor is more akin to the results achievable on Medium format or 5x4. And FF shares many of the disadvantages of those larger formats, namely, size weight, As well as larger heaver lenses.

Size and weight has become a well recognised issue, and is now a deciding factor in many photographers choices.
The marketing direction of most manufacturers has been toward Full Frame Mirrorless. However many of the popular advances have been incorporated in APS and 4/3rds mirrorless cameras. with the FUJI X T3 being the highest featured of them. while lenses for such crop cameras are far from inexpensive, they generally cost far less than their FF counterparts of equal quality.

In the real world, images produced by the leading makers of both crop and FF mirrorless cameras are indistinguishable from one another and from their DSLR counterparts.
However it is perhaps a truism to say that Mirrorless have the clear advantage in advanced abilities and convenience. and hold all the cards for future research and development.

 

[Caerus]

Yes, because of exposure live view. You can expose previously very tricky scenes with ease.

I know people say you can just correct afterwards but I prefer to get it right in camera whenever possible.

 

[Kei]

Getting exposure correct without a live histogram is hardly difficult. How did people manage with slide film for all these years?

My personal experience with mirrorless has not been as positive as I'd like. I bought a fuji X-E3 as an experiment to see if it was a viable path. So far, I've been impressed by what it is capable of with respect to image quality. I've been significantly disappointed by the AF and the battery life. AF varies too much between dead accurate and completely out and this is too often for my taste. Battery life is a bitter pill to swallow where I can get a whole 7 day holiday out of my nikon D810 on one freshly charged battery (without flattening it) and barely make 2 days using the fuji. I can't look through the viewfinder without having to turn a mirrorless camera on.

I still have and use the fuji as it is quite a formidable combo for it's size, especially with the little pancake lens. I just have to pay exceptionally close attention to focus and if I have any doubts take another shot after reacquiring focus. I may just be unlucky and have a poor sample, but to me, even if the AF was better, it's only advantage over my nikon is size and weight and that is all.

In any case, I'd say that the investment has always been and will always be in the lenses. Then buy a body that works with them. If you have no real investment in lenses then you are free to choose whatever path suits your preferences.

 

[MatBin]

^ Agree re the battery life, although mine may be years old, so I have ordered a new one. Time will tell.

 

[RedRobin]

I think this applies to Nikon as well as Canon which is what I exclusively shoot with : Their mirrorless bodies are just an alternative or, in my case, an added option in their EOS range of bodies and lenses. Consequently the D-SLR EF lenses will successfully (without loss of image quality) mount on the mirrorless EOS bodies.

So, instead of thinking that mirrorless is a D-SLR killer or that you have to choose either one or the other, you can simply add a mirrorless body to your system and then shoot on a horses-for-courses basis. I shoot with both a 1DX-2 and an EOS-R and choose which according to what I am shooting - I often have both with me. The mirrorless lenses are excellent too.

Having two bodies because I shoot outdoors in all weathers has become important to me. It also saves faffing around changing lenses and losing shots of active wildlife.

But of course mirrorless is the way forward eventually < Why? Simply because technology never stands still and mirrorless is making a lot of progress.

There are times when I wish that my mirrorless EOS-R had some of my 1DX-2 features and times when I wish vica-versa. There is no such thing as a perfect camera!

 

[Stephen L]

If you're just doing photography as a hobby, do what YOU feel is right. A hobby should be fun, not treated as an accountant's nightmare. There's a future for all types of photography - film, digital, mirrored, mirrorless, open frame, whatever.

 

[the black fox]

bigger is better.

that’s what she said.

yeah but she married you anyway

 

[the black fox]

^ Agree re the battery life, although mine may be years old, so I have ordered a new one. Time will tell.

I would have agreed previously , but the omd1-mkii has a remarkable battery life . first time out I shot off over 1300 shots in raw and still had loads of life left , nowadays I run it with the EVF on at all times and it still lasts over a day

 

[redsnappa]

technology never stands still and mirrorless is making a lot of progress.

Mirrorless manufacturers are packing a lot of tech into their cameras but still mirrorless is not improving on image quality compared to similar DSLRs.

 

[twist]

Mirrorless manufacturers are packing a lot of tech into their cameras but still mirrorless is not improving on image quality compared to similar DSLRs.

Sony make the best performing sensors on the market and they dont make dslr cameras anymore. But yeah, there’s not much in it for now.