Is this a shutter speed problem

Wheels

Wheels

Julian Keeler
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Julian
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I was taking some shots a couple of weeks ago of our local wheelchair rugby team, I have not attempted to do anything with them as almost every one has blurring in. Is this all down to the shutter speed?

JDS_1406.jpg


Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) {0x829A} 1/13 second ===> 0.07692 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop {0x829D} 5/1 ===> ƒ/5
ISO Speed Ratings {0x8827} 800
Original Date/Time {0x9003} 2011:04:05 18:39:41
Flash {0x9209} Flash did not fire
Focal Length {0x920A} 65/1 mm ===> 65 mm
Image Width {0xA002} 4288 pixels
Image Height {0xA003} 2848 pixels
 
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Yeah..you probably want 3-4 stops more of shutter value.

Maybe balance it between aperture and ISO depending how fast your lens is and how good your camera ISO performance is.


Andy
 
absolutely - way too low for this subject matter.
 
Yes, 1/13 is no where near fast enough for a fast sports action shot. People walking in the street need about 1/30 to freeze motion, so action shots like these need to be close to 1/100 at a minimum.

I assume you're shooting in shutter priority mode, in which case you can achieve it by either increasing the ISO (though you're probably going to have to go pretty high to get close to 1/100), or you'd need a lens with a wider aperture (lower f number).
 
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1/13. I would go into the hundredths for that. Don't know what lens you have but you may struggle.
 
Smeghead said:
Yes, 1/13 is no where near fast enough for a fast sports action shot. People walking in the street need about 1/30 to freeze motion, so action shots like these need to be close to 1/100 at a minimum.

I assume you're shooting in shutter priority mode, in which case you can achieve it by either increasing the ISO (though you're probably going to have to go pretty high to get close to 1/100), or you'd need a lens with a wider aperture (lower f number).
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I only shoot in manual mode, its the only way I have managed to master, I have to admit the other settings are a different language to me. I am not even sure how to step up or down the stops. :bonk:
 
spend a little time with the manual. :)
 
The lens is a Nikon 18-200 dx af-s 1:3.5-5.6GII
 
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You really need fast glass - f/2.8 and a high ISO capable body for stuff like this - lighting is not good in these halls - so pics are not easy - almost impossible without the right gear.
 
1/13th of a second is a bit slow for any type of action, unless you are able to pan very well. For indoor sports, you could do with a Lens that goes down to f2.8, otherwise you will need to up the ISO, as a grainy sharper image is much better than a clear blurred one.
 
Wheels said:
I only shoot in manual mode, its the only way I have managed to master, I have to admit the other settings are a different language to me. I am not even sure how to step up or down the stops. :bonk:
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If your shooting in manual you must already know what to do ;)

As shutter speed is your requirement here...Try Shutter Priority (S or Tv whatever it is on your body) and set to 1/125 or thereabouts. Auto ISO and let aperture take care of itself.

EDIT- if you are at the limits of ISO and aperture then faster glass is necessary, of course you can also sacrifice focal length at the long end to benefit from the wider aperture at the short end with the variable aperture lenses.
 
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So all sports related photos including motorsport (as I like doing that) do in S mode?
 
I'm not an expert on it Julian, but if freezing the subject is the priority over depth of field then I would go for S mode.

You can of course do this in Manual mode...you just need to keep an eye on the exposure meter and be ready to adjust Aperture, Shutter or ISO depending on the subject and if you are quick enough to react...

I was trying some small birds in the garden and although I rarely move from manual I didn't feel I was quick enough to react. I actually got on better with Aperture priority in this case. I had enough light so my shutter value was metering around 1/1000.
 
Cheers Andy, Im going sitting taking taking shots of cars going past see how it turns out, I know completely different than in a sports hall but Im going to spend some time practising now. Cheers all I will let you know how I get on.

A big factor is the speed of me getting on the subject I think that is going to be my downfall.
 
Wheels said:
A big factor is the speed of me getting on the subject I think that is going to be my downfall.
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Pick a particular player, keep camera on continuous focus and follow that player, then when the action happens you are all ready focussed and ready to fire.
 
To be honest, a fair few of us use automation (aperture or shutter) at times. The metering of modern cameras is excellent in places and I think shutter priority will be of help to you, at least to get you started. Later on the big fast glass may come, but it's nice to get some successful shots under your belt! Good luck with it. :)
 
Wheels said:
Cheers Andy, Im going sitting taking taking shots of cars going past see how it turns out, I know completely different than in a sports hall but Im going to spend some time practising now. Cheers all I will let you know how I get on.

A big factor is the speed of me getting on the subject I think that is going to be my downfall.
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Its worth practicing on anything that moves - car, waterdrops, dog running, helicopter rotors and see what shutter speeds stop the subject. The only difference is really how much light you have, and generally indoors (or night) is where the need for glass and ISO performance is desirable.
 
TBH, I think in this situation, you're better off sticking to Manual. It's indoors so the light is pretty consistent so it would just be a case of setting your shutter speed (I'm thinking 1/250th would be the bare minimum here) and then as wide an aperture as you can go, using ISO to get the required exposure. Once you have that set, you shouldn't have to change anything for the rest of the match and you will get consistent results.

All that said, you will struggle to get the exposure with that lens in that sort of lighting unless you crank the ISO right up so I'm hoping your camera is good with noise at high ISO.
 
Thanks Marc I will give it another go next week, I am really disappointed in myself for not taking all this into consideration when I went. I just assumed incorrectly.
 
I have just been playing with S mode and I am surprised at the difference between S and M modes.

WPG_4438.jpg


WPG_4436.jpg
 
Also, be careful how far you zoom with that 18-200 lens. I think i'm right in saying that the more you zoom the quicker you'll need to have the shutter speed.

The original shot was at 65mm, so with your D300 having a 1.5 crop factor you need a minimum shutter speed of 97.5 (65 x 1.5) and that's without taking into account the fast moving objects.

As you zoom further, so the shutter speed requirement goes up. (focal length x crop factor)
 
If you want to stick with manual (which I wouldnt as a relative noob!) then as said previously you need a much higher shutter speed, set the aperture as wide open as you can then contol the exposure with ISO. I think you may well end up bumping up the ISO very high if the lighting is poor which means noise in your shots may become and issue.
You could try panning too which could make for a really intersting shot, this will also allow you to use a slightly lower shutter speed which in turn will let you use a lower ISO.
be interested to see how you get on :)
 
Nice sharp shots there :thumbs:

You could transfer the Shutter,Aperture and ISO settings taken from the EXIF into your manual mode and you will get the same results (assuming the light doesn't change). Also keep an eye on exposure compensation if using it.
 
lol, you posted up the above as i was typing that lot out...

I LOVE Aprilia RS125s!
 
In the image posted, the problem is the shutter speed, although to be more accurate it's mainly the subject movement that showing it. Static subject, no problem - which is the point I want to make.

But being realistic, it's all very well saying increase the shutter speed and use a lower f/number lens, but you haven't got those options. I supect the lens was wide open at f/5, and ISO800 is quite high. Flash is not really an option. The trick is to make the most of what you've got.

So in that situation, I would shoot in aperture priority with the lens at lowest f/number and push up to ISO1600. If you think about it, this is will ensure that you always shoot at the fastest possible shutter speed, to minimise blur as best you can - around 1/25sec in this case. That's pushing it, but workable I think. Worth a punt for sure.

Then what you do is pan with the subject, so effectively the subject remains stationary in the frame and you can get away with a much longer shutter speed. Standard action shooting technique. You will still get blurring of hands and wheels, but so long as the faces are sharp, that shouldn't be a problem and will probably enhance the feeling of movement, along with the background which will become streaked.

Since you'd still be at a pretty long shutter speed, panning might be a bit hit and miss, but if you take plenty of frames on continuous shoting, you'll get some good ones for sure. And IMHO they will also look better than sharp-all-over.

Edit: try to pick out individual players as it only works if they're all moving at the same speed in the same direction, which is unlikely. And keep it smooth :thumbs:
 
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Wheels said:
So all sports related photos including motorsport (as I like doing that) do in S mode?
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No, forget sports mode! I use aperture priority mode, mostly wide open and adjust the iso to suit, whether I want to freeze the action (approx 1/2000) or pan (between 80-250/sec)

The problem with putting it in sports mode is that the camera does t actually know what you want to achieve, and I've always found this mode (on canons at least) to be severely lacking.

However, the key to shooting indoor sports is fast glass. If you cant afford to 2.8 telephoto, a simple 50mm f/1.8 would be a massive improvement in your 18-200 for indoor sport.
 
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Wheels said:
So all sports related photos including motorsport (as I like doing that) do in S mode?
Click to expand...

odd jim said:
No, forget sports mode! I use aperture priority mode, mostly wide open and adjust the iso to suit, whether I want to freeze the action (approx 1/2000) or pan (between 80-250/sec)

The problem with putting it in sports mode is that the camera does t actually know what you want to achieve, and I've always found this mode (on canons at least) to be severely lacking.

However, the key to shooting indoor sports is fast glass. If you cant afford to 2.8 telephoto, a simple 50mm f/1.8 would be a massive improvement in your 18-200 for indoor sport.
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Jim, on the Nikon, the "S" that Wheels suggesting is Shutter Priority not Sports mode.
 
Is there a specific reason why Aperture Priority is being recommended. :shrug:

If Julian wants to stop the action, or maybe include some motion blur or a panned shot I can only suggest Shutter Priority. Then the settings can be chimped to suit the desired outcome.

As Jim says .."freeze 1/2000 ...pan 80-250/secs" then no other setting other than Shutter Priority (or Manual) can you decide on the specific shutter value to achieve this.


When I mentioned S mode early...I thought S was Shutter Priority on Nikon, equivelent to Tv on Canon.
 
Julian...hi--..................long time

the motorbike was shot at 1/5000 according to the EXIF data ---that may be TOO fast as the wheels [groan] are frozen and do not impart a sense of rotation
 
also if things are coming at you, the shutter speed does not have to be as fast

so in the sports hall/wheelchairs maybe shoot from the end zones rather than the people passing in front of you

I think.................:thinking:
 
Hi Julian, having seen your setup, and not sure if you can pan at the required pace, I would suggest going to the ends/corners rather than the sides. Try to get the action coming towards you, leave it in manual, you're comfy with the settings, AF-C crank the iso up, 1600 minimum prob 3200. Get a good white balance setting, Flourecent 3 should do, or preset a white balance.

Aim for s/s of 250 min and the widest aperture, adjust s/s to get the shot, don't worry about noise, aim for well lit freeze action.

Good luck with it mate.
 
If they come out darker (because of the envelope boundaries) which they probably will, make sure you shoot in RAW mode too so you can push it's brightness further than you can with JPEG :thumbs:
 
Zarch said:
Jim, on the Nikon, the "S" that Wheels suggesting is Shutter Priority not Sports mode.
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Ah that makes sense now, lol!
 
AndyB1976 said:
Is there a specific reason why Aperture Priority is being recommended. :shrug:

If Julian wants to stop the action, or maybe include some motion blur or a panned shot I can only suggest Shutter Priority. Then the settings can be chimped to suit the desired outcome.

As Jim says .."freeze 1/2000 ...pan 80-250/secs" then no other setting other than Shutter Priority (or Manual) can you decide on the specific shutter value to achieve this.


When I mentioned S mode early...I thought S was Shutter Priority on Nikon, equivelent to Tv on Canon.
Click to expand...

If you want to set a specific shutter speed, then shutter priority (or manual) will obviously do it.

But if you want the fastest shutter speed possible, then choose aperture priority and the lowest available f/number, the highest ISO that you dare, and then the camera is forced to automatically set the fastest shutter speed possible to deliver correct exposure.

It sounds a bit back to front, but if you need 'fastest possible' as opposed to a specific speed, that's the way to do it.
 
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Oh lord now I am confused :-) I have enough problems trying to remember things :-D
 
Thanks for that reply Richard.

I was just getting confused with the need for specific shutter values for artistic effect, versus fastest shutter speed possible.

I was actually using that method in Av just yesterday with birds in the garden. The birds where either in flight, on the lawn or in the shade at the bottom of the hedge - I was happy with the fastest shutter speed so stuck with that :thumbs:
 
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