Is this well framed... ?

UaeExile

UaeExile

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Name
Adam
Edit My Images
Yes
I'm happy enough with the shot given the challenging lighting conditions and proximity from the stage but I'm a little disappointed I couldn't get passed the media scrum entirely... Does the framing distract you? The more I look at it the more it's bothering me :(

The shot is of the a Gov. Minister here in the UAE at an event I was covering today. Any comments/critique welcome.

qz16rp.jpg
 
Looks pretty good to me considering the circumstances.
Maybe a little tighter on the horizontal- a bit off the left and right (to remove the white at the left and the black at the right)

(and I'm not being racist!)
 
The silhouetted bottom of the frame is distracting ... had it been obviously heads, as in an audience, I think it could have worked but as it is I just see it as obstructions. You can crop the right edge up to the Ministers back but I'm not sure that there is any easy option to rectify the rest :)
 
Works for me it's an event I would of thought this was very acceptable.

Gaz
 
I should have said that the silhouetted hubbub at the bottom of the frame adds to the pic, in my opinion anyway.
It looks as if something is happening.

I like it.
 
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In this case, an event, any composition that will bring an active person
and the event ID together is a proper frame… like this one!
 
I'd say touche, given the situation, its a class finish for me. Yes it could be cleaner, but It could be quite suited.
When shooting live events like such, less control is to hand and this has to be remembered.
In an idyllic scenario, id have swung slightly more forward facing to enable a tighter frame, as the sheer volume of dead space is the only real hindrance in my opinion.
But then again, you've captured the fullest possible shot of the study purely by the design of your angle through the crowds, which set my eye to be drawn in. It captures the body of text in a slightly more intriguing dimension too.

Top effort.
 
Jayst84 said:
That's a very low set of standards. Person + brand in frame = good?
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As in this case, linking a speaker and the event is not low but pertinent, relevant!
A good practice in journalism, documentaries etc. An event coverage should
always include some of these.
 
Jayst84 said:
That's a very low set of standards. Person + brand in frame = good?
Click to expand...

To be honest, in my opinion, it depends on the goal you set to achieve upon releasing the shutter.
A shot like this sets the scene, it portray's the event as well as, rather than solely, the subject within. A shot like this could very easily be worked in to a backing spread behind an article.
If a full framed portrait shot was the only bill of the day, I'd imagine we'd be looking one above instead.
 
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Kodiak Qc said:
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As in this case, linking a speaker and the event is not low but pertinent, relevant!
A good practice in journalism, documentaries etc. An event coverage should
always include some of these.
Click to expand...

Of course. But you're saying, if it includes the speaker and the logo, it's a good shot.

Not that I'm saying Adam hasn't taken a decent shot here, just that it could be improved. You seem to be saying, why bother; it's got the speaker and the logo in, so what more could you want?
 
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If you put me in a kitchen with every thing to make a cake, and this includes a
detailed and illustrated recipe, I can still not guaranty that the cake will be good.

In journalism, the link is important. A photographer has to work his shot so that
it will be not only narrative but graphically and aesthetically appealing as well.
 
Kodiak Qc said:
In journalism, the link is important. A photographer has to work his shot so that
it will be not only narrative but graphically and aesthetically appealing as well.
Click to expand...

Agreed, which is not what you said before, when you said any frame with the speaker and the logo was good enough - hence my questioning you.

Kodiak Qc said:
In this case, an event, any composition that will bring an active person
and the event ID together is a proper frame
Click to expand...

Kodiak Qc said:
If you put me in a kitchen with every thing to make a cake, and this includes a
detailed and illustrated recipe, I can still not guaranty that the cake will be good.
Click to expand...

No idea what the cake analogy is about. If you're being paid to photograph an event, and you're in the event venue with a camera and a detailed brief - you better be able to guarantee your photos are going to look good, or else you're going to struggle to get paid. (Again, not directing that at you Adam).
 
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In communication, even more important than what is said, is what is meant!
English not being my language, I would be most grateful for any generosity
in this regard. …I don't want to translate my thoughts as jurists do.
 
With a shot like this, in the real world, a picture editor will be deciding how well framed it is, and cropping the crap out of it any way, so don't worry about it :)

In actual fact though, it's the kind of image that would be popular with picture editors because it is so croppable if need be, but also makes a superb double page spread with room for copy.
 
juggler said:
I like it & I get the reason for leaving the text in.. but the black stuff does start to grate after a while. Have you got the resolution to try a much tighter crop?
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Not really Simon. I possible could, but I really wanted to keep the text in.
 
Thanks for the comments and critique everyone. I hadn't realised there were more replies to this thread; I thought it had dropped off the face of the earth :D

Anyway, for anyone interested, another attempt from today at framing with some of the suggestions made here in mind.... better?

(EDIT: I appreciate it's not the most interesting of angle. There's a yellow hotspot on the background which became really apparent when I was trying to shoot from an angle :mad:)

144b1w1.jpg
 
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In my opinion; if you're going to include something in a picture, do it for a purpose, do it with a definite intention, don't do it because it just happens to be there and can't easily be avoided. I also love to get 'stuff' between the lens and the subject, but I do it because it adds something to the final image.

The problem with the first image is that it doesn't feature any particular element very strongly. While it's a bit 'meh', it's an important shot to get for the client as a safety shot, but hopefully there'd be better pictures that make the final edit.

I'd like to think the first photo would be better shot either tighter (to focus attention on the speaker) or looser to show more of the scene; either way I'd include more of the silhouetted figures so they're there with the purpose of adding to the narrative, and/or to balance up the composition. Alternatively avoid the figures completely by standing on a chair, or joining the press pack etc. (assuming you were there as a commissioned photographer and not part of the audience!).

The second picture handles the foreground audience a bit better, but it's still a completely forgettable image. I hope you have plenty of others that are stronger. Always shoot this sort of shot as it serves a purpose for the client (and as an important 'safety' shot) but make sure you shoot plenty of images that you like, because if you like them the chances are the client will as well. Don't avoid the safe shots, but don't settle for them either.
 
TonyHall said:
In my opinion; if you're going to include something in a picture, do it for a purpose, do it with a definite intention, don't do it because it just happens to be there and can't easily be avoided. I also love to get 'stuff' between the lens and the subject, but I do it because it adds something to the final image.

The problem with the first image is that it doesn't feature any particular element very strongly. While it's a bit 'meh', it's an important shot to get for the client as a safety shot, but hopefully there'd be better pictures that make the final edit.

I'd like to think the first photo would be better shot either tighter (to focus attention on the speaker) or looser to show more of the scene; either way I'd include more of the silhouetted figures so they're there with the purpose of adding to the narrative, and/or to balance up the composition. Alternatively avoid the figures completely by standing on a chair, or joining the press pack etc. (assuming you were there as a commissioned photographer and not part of the audience!).

The second picture handles the foreground audience a bit better, but it's still a completely forgettable image. I hope you have plenty of others that are stronger. Always shoot this sort of shot as it serves a purpose for the client (and as an important 'safety' shot) but make sure you shoot plenty of images that you like, because if you like them the chances are the client will as well. Don't avoid the safe shots, but don't settle for them either.
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Thanks Tony, really detailed and I see exactly where you're coming from. With both shots I was unfortunately limited by factors beyond my control, so removing items just wasn't an option. The stage was quite far from where we were allowed and the only people who were beyond us were TV crews (getting passed them was impossible for the first).

I get what you mean about being forgettable too. What you tend to find with Emirati speakers is they often have little or no stage presence (especially if they are speaking in Arabic). If they look up you're lucky; to get a glance in your direction is almost unheard of! I was waiting patiently for some kind of "action" like a smile, raised hands... Anything, but nothing came :(

Thanks again. Really appreciate it.
 
Phew! I was concerned I might come across as an overly critical ****, and you'd take umbrage.

I was a press photographer for 25 years so I fully understand about shooting in situations that are less than ideal. It just means you have to be even more inventive in order to either minimise the affect, avoid completely, or maximise the potential of the restrictions imposed upon you - a picture editor doesn't care about the problems the photographer faced, they just care about the resulting photo.

In all honesty, I've never shot a conference with such good light and backdrop that you've had at these two events. If I was your boss I'd be screaming "that's a nice enough scene setter, but where are your real pictures?!".

As you gain experience you'll get more confident and more able to navigate around the obstacles others put in front of you.

The lack of animation from the speakers doesn't help, but it's not the source of the problem with these pictures.
(All IMHO of course, you and others may well disagree...you'd be wrong....:)....but other opinions are equally valid, or so I'm led to believe!;))
 
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It just occurred to my tiny brain, that you probably do have better pictures from these jobs. You posted these to illustrate a particular point.

Which makes my comments fairly irrelevant.
 
TonyHall said:
Phew! I was concerned I might come across as an overly critical ****, and you'd take umbrage.

I was a press photographer for 25 years so I fully understand about shooting in situations that are less than ideal. It just means you have to be even more inventive in order to either minimise the affect, avoid completely, or maximise the potential of the restrictions imposed upon you - a picture editor doesn't care about the problems the photographer faced, they just care about the resulting photo.

In all honesty, I've never shot a conference with such good light and backdrop that you've had at these two events. If I was your boss I'd be screaming "that's a nice enough scene setter, but where are your real pictures?!".

As you gain experience you'll get more confident and more able to navigate around the obstacles others put in front of you.

The lack of animation from the speakers doesn't help, but it's not the source of the problem with these pictures.
(All IMHO of course, you and others may well disagree...you'd be wrong....:)....but other opinions are equally valid, or so I'm led to believe!;))
Click to expand...

Not at all. I'm not that precious! Plus, until a week ago I'd never shot a conference (and only two events previously) so I'm not going to kick myself too hard!

Yeah lighting and stage set up here tends to be pretty good but facial expression and animation from local speakers pretty naff. I do have others which I'm happier with but i was looking to see if the first was a keeper and the second was an improvement (framing wise).

I also think you're right with regards to experience..... Only a few days between conferences and I feel like I've learned bloody loads. Such a baptism of fire but loved every minute of it.
 
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