Beginner ISO shooting birds

Petejones

Petejones

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Yes
when I'm take photographs of birds, the light is a big problem.

I seen to be getting lots of black looking birds in a washed out sky

I'm told that I need to expose for the bird with the ISO but I'm not sure how to gauge this as I tend to use the light meter to set my exposure and this is always in the middle

If I adjust the iso do I still use that meter?
 
Petejones said:
If I adjust the iso do I still use that meter?
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•
The ISO in any case is just one parameter that will tell
the meter how to work. So, yes, always use the meter.
Petejones said:
I'm not sure how to gauge
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The gauge will be a series of test you should. For birding,
A higher ISO is better but no higher than when you can
notice some kind of image degradation.

I do birds at 800 ISO with my D800E but never higher.
All cameras are different so, again, do some ISO tests.
 
Petejones said:
when I'm take photographs of birds, the light is a big problem.

I seen to be getting lots of black looking birds in a washed out sky

I'm told that I need to expose for the bird with the ISO but I'm not sure how to gauge this as I tend to use the light meter to set my exposure and this is always in the middle

If I adjust the iso do I still use that meter?
Click to expand...


Experiment by adding +1/3EV up to +2EV and maybe more depending on the light - when you are shooting birds against a sky background

you are underexposing the image from what you say

use auto ISO

get the shutter speed correct to achieve a sharpe image and the fvalue required to achieve the DOF you want

ISO is the least you should be concerned with initially
 
BillN_33 said:
Experiment by adding +1/3EV up to +2EV and maybe more depending on the light - when you are shooting birds against a sky background

you are underexposing the image from what you say

use auto ISO

get the shutter speed correct to achieve a sharpe image and the fvalue required to achieve the DOF you want

ISO is the least you should be concerned with initially
Click to expand...
I have the same problem with black images and only yesterday decided to add+1/3ev and it worked, I was trying to take a Swallow inside a dark shed and last year I just gave up as impossible but the birds were there again this year the young ones have the most beautiful bronzy coloured feathers, so this morning I gave it another go and its not perfect but I can see it more sharp than before. I use a monopod all the time and it helps keep the camera steady. It is a question of experimenting as how much you up it but the difference will soon come. I'll add my little Swallow that came out of the nest only to-day and I got the photo.
Barn Swallow just out of the nest.jpg
 
This is where my perceived knowledge is shown for what it is again

I don't know what 1/3 ev means I'm afraid
 
Or f value for that matter

I've spent my entire 8 months as an enthusiastic amateur balancing shutter, aperture and ISO in manual mode

i have had some really encouraging landscape results but the wildlife shots (which are my favourite) are elusive
 
There is an Exposure Value button on your camera + means that you are increasing the light coming in - so +1 EV is plus 1 stop, .... minus means the opposite ........

f value is aperture value - i.e f stops f2.8, f4 and all that

The easiest way of bringing more light onto the sensor with the shots that you are describing is just to add "exposure" and that is what the EV button does conveniently

most of the time with Birds you would also used "spot" exposure

have a look in your handbook
 
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I'm not too bad with the aperture, just not too familiar with the lingo

Thank you for the pointers, much appreciated as always

I'll consider myself corrected and take a look at exposure compensation and the links:)
 
just go out in ideal conditions, that's what I do :D
No clouds, just lovely blue sky either side of mid day and keep the sun behind you :D
 
Petejones said:
I'm not too bad with the aperture, just not too familiar with the lingo

Thank you for the pointers, much appreciated as always

I'll consider myself corrected and take a look at exposure compensation and the links:)
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Exposure compensation is no good for you if you're using full manual.
You'll do the same thing by lowering the ss or opening the aperture so that the meter is on the + side of the centre.

But you've just proved my point that 'learning manual' doesn't actually teach anything.
You should always first learn what your meter is seeing and how you interpret that information. When that knowledge is embedded, you'll be able to use all the exposure modes as appropriate.
 
Phil V said:
But you've just proved my point that 'learning manual' doesn't actually teach anything.
You should always first learn what your meter is seeing and how you interpret that information. When that knowledge is embedded, you'll be able to use all the exposure modes as appropriate.
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I went with the Manual Mode as I was not able to produce any acceptable results with the AV and TV modes as I had to mess with the ISO too much which created lots of noise (a bit of lingo I do know) when I switched to M I was able to produce a lot more of what I wanted to see in the shot.

I think that the camera I have is more than a match for my skill level but maybe it shows it's limits in the AV and TV modes

I'm only 8 months in so who knows where I'll be in a few months time, hopefully not blaming my camera.

Thanks all
 
Kodiak Qc said:
•
The ISO in any case is just one parameter that will tell
the meter how to work. So, yes, always use the meter.

The gauge will be a series of test you should. For birding,
A higher ISO is better but no higher than when you can
notice some kind of image degradation.

I do birds at 800 ISO with my D800E but never higher.
All cameras are different so, again, do some ISO tests.
Click to expand...


with my 500D if I go over ISO 400 I end up disappointed with birds
 
Petejones said:
with my 500D if I go over ISO 400 I end up disappointed with birds
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•

You are not disappointed with birds but with
the quality of the capture.

I know nothing of canon gear but it should be
the same testing procedure to find the maximum
acceptable ISO. So your 400 may be what you
tested and what you should use then. Some
higher end bodies have higher acceptable, or
manageable ISO.
 
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Petejones said:
with my 500D if I go over ISO 400 I end up disappointed with birds
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You should be able to use much higher than 400, but that depends on getting the exposure right. Pulling up shadows from under exposure will increase noise, even at the lowest ISO's.
 
My ISO tolerance/limits in good lighting are at least double what they are for low lighting.
Not that you often need to use high ISO in good light... but there are times.
 
Petejones said:
I went with the Manual Mode as I was not able to produce any acceptable results with the AV and TV modes as I had to mess with the ISO too much which created lots of noise (a bit of lingo I do know) when I switched to M I was able to produce a lot more of what I wanted to see in the shot.

I think that the camera I have is more than a match for my skill level but maybe it shows it's limits in the AV and TV modes

I'm only 8 months in so who knows where I'll be in a few months time, hopefully not blaming my camera.

Thanks all
Click to expand...
Personally I'd go with TV to ensure sharp shots and use 1-1.5 stops Exp Comp.
 
Phil V said:
Personally I'd go with TV to ensure sharp shots and use 1-1.5 stops Exp Comp.
Click to expand...
I will give this a try next time out and see if I can start getting what I'm after
 
Another thing that has a huge effect is how much cropping you do, if I fill the frame then I can happily shoot at ISO3200 on my m43 kit, especially with a little ETTR.
 
I do tend to have to crop a fair bit, so I do need to try to get closer
 
I'd echo Bills advice in a couple of his posts up there ^^^

Auto ISO and spot metering.
as also mentioned dial in +1ev to try to bring out brightness if the sunlight is really strong and still causing silhouetting.

As Phil mentioned I'd definitely use Tv for birds in flight, let the camera control the aperture (if it's bright and fast shutter this will probably be wide open anyway).
 
Phil V said:
Personally I'd go with TV to ensure sharp shots and use 1-1.5 stops Exp Comp.
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Funniest thing is this week's tutorial from Digital Photography School advocated against using Tv for wildlife photography. I'd have gone with Tv too.
 
omens said:
Funniest thing is this week's tutorial from Digital Photography School advocated against using Tv for wildlife photography. I'd have gone with Tv too.
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I guess that depends on the subject - capturing a Peregrine using Av @ 150mph is not going to end well :D
Where as using Av for something like a standing deer will yield good results :)
 
sk66 said:
I use A/Av for fast subjects all the time...
but with auto ISO enabled and limits set (min SS/Max ISO).
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That's what I did when my camera allowed it but most cameras that aren't decent Nikons (and maybe some others now?) don't have that ability.

Nowadays I just use shutter priority in those situations or maybe manual with auto ISO.
 
It's been a few weeks but I finally had a chance to get out and try the method suggested

I managed to get the following using Tv with +EV up 2 notches, definitely an improvement, I'll have to figure out post processing as I go along

Tv seems to make more sense to me than Av but I'm sure it'll come in the end_MG_8021.jpg
 
When I shooting birds in flight...

I use TV and an ISO between 800 to 1600, with a compensation of around +1-+2....

Another consideration is the Lens being use and distance, as the more you crop as said, the softer the focus can be... I use an Tramron 150-600mm lens, either with my canon 1200d or 7mk2 camera's, best photo's are the ones where I'm near enough to get the bird almost completely in the frame, the 7dm2 is better as not only faster frame rate, but focusing is a lot quicker on it...
 
Pete, it really is simple. There is a lot of conflicting advice on this thread.

It is actually really simple though.

What I do is put the camera in Manual, this allows you to select a safe SS of 1/2000 and a safe aperture of f8. Put your ISO on auto-iso.

All you need to then do is take a photo of a BiF and then you only need to use the Exposure Compensation to get the right exposure.

For dark birds, hardly any exp comp if your BG is a load of trees or green or +1 or +2 if you're shooting up to the sky

If you're shooting white birds, then you may have to use - Exposure Comp.

These settings are safe and can allow you to practise tracking the birds in the viewfinder (y)
 
wezza13 said:
What I do is put the camera in Manual, this allows you to select a safe SS of 1/2000 and a safe aperture of f8. Put your ISO on auto-iso.

All you need to then do is take a photo of a BiF and then you only need to use the Exposure Compensation to get the right exposure.
(y)
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Sadly I don't think the OP's 500D has exposure compensation in Manual.

With a slow (f/5.6) lens I pop the Tv onto 1/1000 and Ev+2 (or thereabouts) and fire away. I find 1/1000 plenty fast enough for everything other than tits, kingfishers etc, and it helps keep the ISO down, which the OP needs if he struggles with noise over 400.
 
MadWoman said:
Sadly I don't think the OP's 500D has exposure compensation in Manual.

With a slow (f/5.6) lens I pop the Tv onto 1/1000 and Ev+2 (or thereabouts) and fire away. I find 1/1000 plenty fast enough for everything other than tits, kingfishers etc, and it helps keep the ISO down, which the OP needs if he struggles with noise over 400.
Click to expand...

That's a shame.

1/2000 is a setting that should give sharp focus for a beginner, it's certainly quick enough. He'll need to learn how to track them properly and get good shots, then he could possibly make changes to the ISO, SS etc :)
 
thanks for the replies, MadWoman is correct that I can't use the compensation in manual, I did enjoy using the Tv mode after a little while though

The image has been cropped here is the original_MG_8021 non crop.jpg

I am often at the limit of my lens (EF 70-300) and always at the limit of my ability but all progress is good progress. I have a few more of this one but I think it was my best, I stalked it for a good length of time spotted a pattern in it's behaviour and went to the right spot and waited. I know this is not going to set the world on fire but definitely another benchmark for me.

Shutter speed was 1/400 ISO 100

the aperture was f10 which from what I'm told is in the sweet spot for the lens but the camera set this for me

I hope to change to something like a 7D Mk II in the future which I believe will help, as for distance I tried a 100-400 lens but I disliked the weight so I'm thinking of an EF extender as a compromise to help with the wildlife shots.

This is a while away so in the meantime I will continue to push myself with the current equipment as I know it can do better than I can at the moment
 
Ellie Jones said:
This one taken on my 7dmk2 and the Tamron 150-600mm compensation if I remember rightly was +2



http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx300/jo-bucket/20160807-508A1375_zpsburopiga.jpg

And this one same lens but with my 1200d
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx300/jo-bucket/20160727-20160727-_MG_5727_zpsa6mqxnyt.jpg

Not the best of photo's but again like yourself I'm very new to photography, 4 month in....
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These are the sort of results that evade me with lens length being a bit of an issue I'm enjoying the challenge though, I am going to start checking out reviews of camera bodies but I'm told the 7D MkII is a great camera so that is the way I'm leaning at the moment, how do you rate it against the 1200D?
 
Pete, hard question.... As two different level camera's...

The 1200d is a very able camera but it's an entry level camera with limitations to it, it's not long before you get frustrated by the frame rate speed, it gets sluggish very quickly, even with just selecting Jpeg.... The focusing isn't as fast as the 7dmk2, but you don't notice prior to using the 7dmk2 though.... The 7dmk2 is the superior camera out of two, so you're upping you changes of hitting focus and tracking, holding a burst at a good frame rate that increases the percentage of nailing the shot...

But the there are many reasons why I prefer the 7dmk2 for shooting wildlife...

I have mobility issues with my shoulders, and my left shoulder being the worst, can get very sore indeed... So you would think that the lighter the kit the less problems I'd have, but this isn't so...

If you've got an heavy lens on a light camera body, there's no real counter balance to the lens, so you supporting more of the weight of the lens, while with the other hand, trying to pull the body down to counter weight it.. With an heavier body it's easier to counterweight so takes the pressure off the supporting arm....

Also, with the 7dmk2 body being larger than the 1200d, pulling in your elbows against the body, isn't so far to go, it was having to really pull in tight to probably support the 1200d, that put a lot of pressure on my shoulders, causing real discomfort. with the 7dmk2 I don't get the pain level in my left shoulder, nor find after being out for the day, I spend the night with a niggling ache in the shoulder.

But saying that, the 7dmk2 preforms very well with wildlife photography,

But if budget is tight... Then the 1200d will more than able, with some limitations to it....
 
I'm using a Canon 7D ll and find I can usually get away with iso 1200 in tough condition with some noise clean up after.Try as I might I can't find any corrección options that will overcome really tough condition like dark forest or jungle under overcast skies. Under sich condition I can only get usable shots using flash and a "Better Beer".
 
I've only really shot birds n daylight but under canopy of trees perched
 
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