Beginner It's time to go raw - but what software?

Forkbeard

Forkbeard

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Jim
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I want to start shooting raw (Canon 600D) and don't know where to start. I don't really want to sign up for a subscription to Photoshop (I have enough direct debits as it is!). What other software options do I have? I'm thinking of freebies or buying something outright, maybe like Photoshop Elements.

Also, what do the pictures look like straight from the camera from raw? Are they completely different to a jpeg? I'm just wondering how much work you have to do to get a decent picture - I don't want a load of pictures that I can't get looking anywhere near decent because I don't know what I'm doing!
 
Photos look generally flat, no real pop as they say. Set your camera to shoot RAW/jpeg and compare the two.
For free software, Canon dpp 4 will allow you to play around with your photo. It comes free with your camera (if you've got the cd), if not you can download it from the Canon website.
 
The Canon s/w (DPP I think its called) comes with the camera or can be downloaded, works ok from what I've seen. I am not sure if it takes into account camera settings (Nikon's s/w does).

A decent free package is RawTherapee

A raw file is not viewable as such as it is a data file, it must be processed to become an mage (the camera does this to make jpegs). Some s/w shows you the embedded jpeg (assuming it has one - again Nikon raws do). But if no presets are applied for example in lightroom, a raw will tend to look flat.

Note what your in camera jpeg settings are (contrast, sharpness, saturation etc) and start from there.
 
You might be better of to shoot both JPeg and RAW together, then if you want a few pictures that you can use quickly you have the JPEG but those you want to spend a bit more time on you have the RAW files. I find the basic processing of RAW files takes only a few minutes. I use camera RAW with my online suite so cannot recommend a program but you might find you got some free with your camera.
 
Thanks for the replies. Will the camera still take care of things like lens distortion in raw mode or is that done when it's 'burnt' to a jpeg in camera?
 
I believe that any such corrections will be applied by software and not to the raw file (I have them switched off in my cameras and deal with any that need correcting in post).
 
I've been having a go with Rawtherapee and have got on with it better than I expected, although I'm only scraping the surface - it's a daunting looking piece of software!
 
It's going to take time to learn how to process your RAW files. I remember when I first started it was very daunting looking at a myriad of sliders and wondering how they work and interact with each other. I still don't know everything but I know enough to get good photos out of my RAW files, photos which are better than what the JPEGs my camera would have produced.
 
I bought the standalone Lightroom 6 package. Works really well for me.
 
Give On1 RAW a go, each version they catch up on Lightroom and in some areas are better.
Take the 30 day trial (they're going to release an upgrade soon), wait until 2017.6 runs out (don't upgrade) then download the new version and the trial resets so you get another 30 days, by which point with any luck you'll have get a "secret" offer to get the software for $50 or so and will have tested it for long enough to know if you want it.
 
I use Affinity Photo for windows. Now £48 to own outright no rental to pay.and free updates. The more I learn how to use it the more I realise what a powerful tool it is.:)...bit slow on my laptop but great on my desktop.
 
Affinity does look good but not for me personally, it's more photoshop than Lightroom
 
JohnN said:
Affinity does look good but not for me personally, it's more photoshop than Lightroom
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I'd agree with that. I have both and use Affinity for things Lightroom struggles with, if I could only have one, it would be LR.
 
Just start with Canon DPP,, you will outgrow it but it lets you do all the basics and gives you a feel for what you may want from other software
 
ChrisH said:
Faststone image viewer for windows is a great basic editor. Been using it for years until I went over to a Mac
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That is my main editor for jpgs, I completely forgot it can handle raw files so haven't tried it.
 
Does it create sidecar files with the original raw file when edited? Or do you have to save it as a tiff if you want to come back to it later?
 
It a file that goes with the image saying what changes were made rather than adjusting the original or keeping the changes in a database
 
rick448 said:
I bought the standalone Lightroom 6 package. Works really well for me.
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Yes, Lightroom standalone v6. Try the 30-days free trial and you won't look back (y)
 
Like you I also didn't want to use a subscription - I know I will always have the latest updates etc but I hardly use all of the things in my programs anyway.

I also use Canon and I turn my RAW files into 16 bit TIFF files using DPP - I batch process them.

Then you can use any software you want since all will work on TIFF files.

Since they are a lossless file type you don't lose anything when saved and re-opened.

I keep the TIFF files through all my workflow until I finally turn them into finished JPEGs.

Simples! :)
 
I didn't know tiffs were lossless. I might give them a try - I like using Fastone but there's no way to save an edited raw file without changing the file type to either tiff or jpg. Tiff wouldn't be a problem, I can batch convert raw to tiff in Rawtherapee.
 
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petersmart said:
I also use Canon and I turn my RAW files into 16 bit TIFF files using DPP - I batch process them.
Then you can use any software you want since all will work on TIFF files.
Since they are a lossless file type you don't lose anything when saved and re-opened.
I keep the TIFF files through all my workflow until I finally turn them into finished JPEGs.
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This seems a bit misleading. A better workflow would be to work (non-destructively!) on the raws up to the final point of export. A tif file may indeed be lossless in itself, but as soon as you work on that file (curves, levels, or whatever), these operations are destructive, and if you then save any changes you are discarding information compared to the original.
 
Forkbeard said:
I didn't know tiffs were lossless. I might give them a try - I like using Fastone but there's no way to save an edited raw file without changing the file type to either tiff or jpg. Tiff wouldn't be a problem, I can batch convert raw to tiff in Rawtherapee.
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droj said:
... A better workflow would be to work (non-destructively!) on the raws up to the final point of export. A tif file may indeed be lossless in itself, but as soon as you work on that file (curves, levels, or whatever), these operations are destructive, and if you then save any changes you are discarding information compared to the original.
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What he said ^^^ only posted as it is an important difference to understand. :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes, Lightroom standalone v6. Try the 30-days free trial and you won't look back (y)
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Thirded. Lightroom is a wokflow package, not just a raw editor. The library function is superb for organising your images.

I think that Lightroom 4 supported the 600D, which can often be found quite cheaply secondhand. Full V6 standalone licence is £113.66. Licence upgrade is £64.66, so if you find a cheap copy of v4 or 5 it can be a cheap way to get V6

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/creative-cloud/help/download-install-single-app-Lightroom-6.html
 
droj said:
This seems a bit misleading. A better workflow would be to work (non-destructively!) on the raws up to the final point of export. A tif file may indeed be lossless in itself, but as soon as you work on that file (curves, levels, or whatever), these operations are destructive, and if you then save any changes you are discarding information compared to the original.
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And Lightroom is non-destructive.
 
I would also suggest starting with Canon DPP. That's how I started because as others have said, photo editing can be a bit overwhelming at first with all the possibilities but the tools in DPP give you a taste of how much flexibility you have using RAW files.
After a while I felt DPP wasn't able to do as much as I felt other people were able to do so I looked into other free software but found some weren't very user friendly so ended up getting a standalone cd version of Lightroom6 for about £100.
 
HoppyUK said:
And Lightroom is non-destructive.
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I'd assumed that all raw processors were - until the point of export to another file format. I'm not here to champion any particular make of software (or hardware, or anything else). Let's stick to principles.
 
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Well since I started this thread I've bought a new PC and have installed both Canon DPP and Rawtherapee. What I've noticed so far is that the Canon software is applying noise reduction when it says there is none (or something else I'm missing?) and strpping out loads of detail, here is a couple of crops fro Rawtherapee and Canon DPP:
 

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Forkbeard said:
Well since I started this thread I've bought a new PC and have installed both Canon DPP and Rawtherapee. What I've noticed so far is that the Canon software is applying noise reduction when it says there is none (or something else I'm missing?) and strpping out loads of detail, here is a couple of crops fro Rawtherapee and Canon DPP:
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DPP4 will automatically adjust the sharpening and noise reduction values depending upon which picture style you choose (found about halfway down as a drop box on the lower row of tabs, first tab on the left). However, these can also be changed regardless of the picture style by going to the second tab from the left, bottom row, and making individual choices from there.

Mike
 
pooley said:
DPP4 will automatically adjust the sharpening and noise reduction values depending upon which picture style you choose (found about halfway down as a drop box on the lower row of tabs, first tab on the left). However, these can also be changed regardless of the picture style by going to the second tab from the left, bottom row, and making individual choices from there.

Mike
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Hi Mike, the noise reduction settings are at zero and it looks the same. I changed them manually and nothing - no change. It looks identical to the jpg detail-wise.
 
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Orangecroc said:
DPP4 reads the NR settings of the camera that are included in the raw data, but other RAW converters ignore this data from the RAW file. You would need to turn this setting off in camera for it to not appear in DPP4.
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Ah, thanks. I think I'll stick to Rawtherapee, I prefer it to the Canon software anyway...Is there even a way to turn noise reduction off in camera?
 
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So guys, tell me more about rawtherapee, does it use sidecar files or adjust the original, or option three makes a new file based on the original raw?

Also is it a workflow system (like Lightroom/On1) or a file system like photoshop?
 
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