Kids and ipads

[joescrivens]

How do you define smart Joe? Children are only as smart as the information you feed them and the time you spend with them, and that need not be an app on an electronic device. As with all of us children learn at different rates, it does not make them any less clever. Something they should have realised years ago in the Schools imho.

Not right rich.

Having knowledge does not make you smart. Being smart is about analysis, evaluation. Higher order thinking.

 

[joescrivens]

I'm with you 100% on this - plus IMO there's something awry with " the kids fight over who's going to use it , so we bought another one"

Surely the answer to that situation is that they are taught to share , and given rules and boundaries - I recall when I was little my sister and I had the same sort of dispute over the family acorn electron - The parental ruling on that was " If you can't share nicely , its going in the loft and neither of you will have access to it for a month"

Ditto with " the kids won't keep their hands off [the adults] ipad" - seriously ??? surely the answer to that is to make them keep their hands off it or say they can have access to it at set times , and punish them if they transgress the rules

Is it really a good idea to teach the kids that they can get anything they want so long as the fight and have tantrums long enough to make the adults give in ?

You don't have kids do you

 

[candlestick]

My boy is coming up to 3, and from about 18 months, he self taught himself how to use the ipad......he can now spell 3 and 4 letter words, trace the shape of the letters themselves, count to 30 and he's a whizz at Angry Birds Star Wars......

He has now migrated onto the main PC and can browse to Cbeebies and a few other sites plus shutdown the computer by himself.

All on all, i think they are much better learning tools than the piece of string and a brick that i was probably given to play with as a kid!?

 

[ZoneV]

...
All on all, i think they are much better learning tools than the piece of string and a brick that i was probably given to play with as a kid!?

I don't know. At least the brick and string have three dimensions and physical properties such weight, shape and texture.
I'd think that for babies and very young children that's invaluable in learning about the physical world around them.

 

[fracster]

All these youngsters who are technically gifted, pity they won`t be able to interact naturally with other human beings.

 

[ZoneV]

All these youngsters who are technically gifted, pity they won`t be able to interact naturally with other human beings.

That's another worry. Nobody likes a ****, no matter how clever they are.

 

[neil_g]

All these youngsters who are technically gifted, pity they won`t be able to interact naturally with other human beings.

Yes of course. It's not like kids go to a big building filled with other kids for 5 days a week to interact with..

 

[Mecki]

well, I think it depends on education, upbringing and the environment, which parents try to build for their children. If Daddy is looking at the ipad more often than at his wife, then the kids will adapat to that. But if the children's life is filled with culture, books, music, sports, the ipad won't dominate their lives.

 

[neil_g]

well, I think it depends on education, upbringing and the environment, which parents try to build for their children. If Daddy is looking at the ipad more often than at his wife, then the kids will adapat to that. But if the children's life is filled with culture, books, music, sports, the ipad won't dominate their lives.

exactly, too many variables. i dont think anyone is suggesting that parenting be taken over by an electronic device like some people seem to think.

 

[u8myufo]

Not right rich.

Having knowledge does not make you smart. Being smart is about analysis, evaluation. Higher order thinking.

Not right? typical answer from you Joe that one. Some examples of your replies just from this thread alone.

1> Need ... nobody really needs an ipad no matter what their age.
2> Do you have some sources to back that statement up?
3> At 7.30? He should be tucked up in bed

Notice how a lot of people in threads that you have replied to use words such as " I think " " Perhaps " " Maybe " " Possibly " That indicates to me that those people are putting their opinion across but at the same time are prepared to accept there might be an alternative answer to the questions asked or topic being discussed. More importantly they value that other people do have differing opinions. If you are as clever as you try to portray yourself as Joe I am pretty sure you really know what some people are trying to explain with their replies, not everybody may be able to put it down as clearly as others. You are #1 in the department of analysing, evaluating and the order of higher thinking when it comes to a lot of members. I am glad I was never taught that method of thinking, as imho it just turns you into someone who is never happy unless they are criticising every little thing in life, never happy with what somebody says or does because it is not how you would think or do it. Best of luck with that outlook on life

 

[mxfun]

I know we live in a technology saturated world these days but I find it slightly wrong that children so young should have such expensive devices bought for them.
Now I understand the educational uses they may bring but show me a child that says "I want an ipad to learn numbers/to spell" etc.

Whan I was 6 and 8 my first thought when I got out of bed was how quickly I can get dressed/breakfast and out to play!

Is it me or have children lost the ability to do what we did as kids?

I know I will probably get flamed for this but I do find it wrong and no offence to the OP but an ipad mini for a 12 month old is beyond ridiculous!

Agree whole heartily ,my youngest wanted a spade so he could build ramps for his jump bike and he'd spend the whole summer doing this, so much healthier the and iPad which in my opinion is wrong for children this young.. In IMO of course

 

[joescrivens]

I don't know. At least the brick and string have three dimensions and physical properties such weight, shape and texture.
I'd think that for babies and very young children that's invaluable in learning about the physical world around them.

Do you think people with ipads don't also use toys, tools and techniques like this as well?

exactly, too many variables. i dont think anyone is suggesting that parenting be taken over by an electronic device like some people seem to think.

Not right? typical answer from you Joe that one. Some examples of your replies just from this thread alone.

1> Need ... nobody really needs an ipad no matter what their age.
2> Do you have some sources to back that statement up?
3> At 7.30? He should be tucked up in bed

Notice how a lot of people in threads that you have replied to use words such as " I think " " Perhaps " " Maybe " " Possibly " That indicates to me that those people are putting their opinion across but at the same time are prepared to accept there might be an alternative answer to the questions asked or topic being discussed. More importantly they value that other people do have differing opinions. If you are as clever as you try to portray yourself as Joe I am pretty sure you really know what some people are trying to explain with their replies, not everybody may be able to put it down as clearly as others. You are #1 in the department of analysing, evaluating and the order of higher thinking when it comes to a lot of members. I am glad I was never taught that method of thinking, as imho it just turns you into someone who is never happy unless they are criticising every little thing in life, never happy with what somebody says or does because it is not how you would think or do it. Best of luck with that outlook on life

None of this is on topic, so I won't comment as I dont want to derail the thread.

Agree whole heartily ,my youngest wanted a spade so he could build ramps for his jump bike and he'd spend the whole summer doing this, so much healthier the and iPad which in my opinion is wrong for children this young.. In IMO of course

again though nobody is suggesting that instead of being outside all summer on his bike your son should be inside for the entire summer on an ipad. We're talking about suplimenting learning with technology in addition to traditional methods.

here's an interesting video for example

[YOUTUBE]lpet4TJi41A[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ninjakatt]

My girls aged 7 & 8 love our ipads, but I bought them Kindle fires for Christmas so they can watch netflix on as I was aware that a £400+ ipad mostly being used to watched netflix on was a bit excessive, so they use their kindles for netflix and temple run etc and can use my mini ipad or the big ipad under supervision. I agree with Rico - in this era of smartphones and tablets, the earlier they use them and are confident finding their way around them the better! Ipads are being introduced at school next term!

edited to add (having read page 2!) that my girls also spend plenty of time outdoors, ride horses, do dance classes and gymnastics so the ipads definitely don't encourage them to not be active! Any more than properly supervised tv does... it's the extremes as always that cause problems!

 

[mxfun]

Do you think people with ipads don't also use toys, tools and techniques like this as well?



None of this is on topic, so I won't comment as I dont want to derial the thread.

again though nobody is suggesting that instead of being outside all summer on his bike your son should be inside for the entire summer on an ipad. We're talking about suplimenting learning with technology in addition to traditional methods.

here's an interesting video for example

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpet4TJi41A">YouTube Link</a>

In my opinion a child using an iPad to learn and a parent and a child learning together, there's no comparison in my experience.A child being given an iPad is lazy

 

[strumstrum]

edited to add (having read page 2!) that my girls also spend plenty of time outdoors, ride horses, do dance classes and gymnastics so the ipads definitely don't encourage them to not be active! Any more than properly supervised tv does... it's the extremes as always that cause problems!

lashings of this

 

[stupar]

We're talking about suplimenting learning with technology in addition to traditional methods.

What did people do to suppliment there childrens learning before the advent of the tablet/smartphone?

I agree they have there uses to children but I do mean children not toddlers.
In my opinion a tablet for a Toddler is overkill. To me its very close to sitting them in front of the TV so you can get some peace.

I think my biggest beef is when the child demands/wants the device. Exactly who is in control at that point....more so if the parent gives in.

We wall all do things differently I know.
For me, when our we lad isn't happy playing by himself, we will play with him, read to him and generally converse with him.

Learning technology I agree is a good thing, but there is a time and a place for it and it has to be monitored so it doesn't rule their life.

Remove tablets and smartphones from the world and there would be a lot of lost children out there I reckon!

 

[joescrivens]

In my opinion a child using an iPad to learn and a parent and a child learning together, there's no comparison in my experience.A child being given an iPad is lazy

Are you talking from experience? i.e you have given an ipad to a child and watched the interaction and then formed the opinion that it was lazy - or are you just speculating?

I'll give you an example of how our children use ipads and tell me if you think this is lazy:

I've built several applications specific to my childrens needs and run them on the ipad with them. We then sit with our children whilst they interact, we talk with them, we ask them questions, they answer. We play the games together, we choose games built around collaboration so the two of them can learn to work as a team.

You seem to indicate that a parent and a child cannot learn together with an ipad in your post. This leads me to believe you have never actually done it. Parent and child learning together is EXACTLY what we do with our children when they use the ipads.

So tell me - do you still think I am a lazy parent?

 

[joescrivens]

What did people do to suppliment there childrens learning before the advent of the tablet/smartphone?

There wasn't anything to suppliment their learning, and thats exactly my point. Now you have a tool which you can use to increase their knowledge and skills. I see a huge difference with my own children compared to others. My kids still do all the traditional outdoor things - dance classes, swimming, playing at the park - toddler groups, bounce and rhyme etc etc. They probably only have 30 mins a day maximum of "ipad time" but growing up it has made a difference in my opinion.

I am also lucky enough to have a multi touch table in my office and sometimes I get my children to play with apps to test them. It's not a leave them and walk away kind of interaction, you are there with them assisting the learning. I have this game where this professor asks them to examine objects with common properties. It's a very analytical game - they have to look at objects and find common propertes with them and draw them out. It would be no different to having the game as a board game - except you wouldnt have the feedback element from the board game so it would be a little trickier to implement. But if you watched us play the same analytical skill game with cardboard cards I bet you'd tell me that was a better way for them to learn - but how so?

 

[ZoneV]

Do you think people with ipads don't also use toys, tools and techniques like this as well?

Some will, some won't but once the kids get a taste for it, I imagine the appeal of sitting on their backsides stroking a screen must be very strong and many parents will just buckle every time their kids scream "BUT I WANNA DO IPAAAAAADS!!!!".

 

[joescrivens]

Some will, some won't but once they get a taste for it, I imagine the appeal of sitting on their backsides stroking a screen must be very strong and many parents will just buckle every time their kids scream "BUT I WANNA DO IPAAAAAADS!!!!".

parents that succomb to that would be the kind of parent that would have succombed to the kids saying "I WANNA WATCH CBEEEEEBIES ALL DAY!!!!" if they didnt have an ipad so there's no difference there.

 

[stupar]

Joe the point I'm trying to make is that letting toddlers use expensive devices that were never intended for them is overkill.
You face creating an issue whereby the child has expectations that evolve around that device.
Now clearly from your personal situation your kids see limited use of the ipad, I bet if you were to take it away though it wouldn't make them a lesser person.
Do you condone though physically spending hundreds of pounds on a device to keep your child happy?

 

[ZoneV]

parents that succomb to that would be the kind of parent that would have succombed to the kids saying "I WANNA WATCH CBEEEEEBIES ALL DAY!!!!" if they didnt have an ipad so there's no difference there.

Now they can alternate between plonking them in front of the TV and playing on a tablet. Perfect!

 

[u8myufo]

here's an interesting video for example

[YOUTUBE]lpet4TJi41A[/YOUTUBE]

All well and good, but apart from just reading a story book as a child, there were educational ones. Science, nature, how to make and do things. You would absorb that information and then go out into the real world and put it in to practise, you would touch things, smell things and even taste different things that you would have never thought of before. Some very good friends of mine run this place just down from where I live, I have spent many a happy hour down there myself. There were lots of people that were anti about it when it first opened, but I would be the first to admit it has done a lot of good for the kids. It brings them together to socialise, kids from different backgrounds and different schools, they would have no choice but to act as a team with the other lads whether they knew them or not. They even have groups from the special needs School in a couple of times a week, and again they are socialising with the all the other local kids. So yes technology and such like does have its advantages just like everything else that comes into our lives. In saying that though how many times do we see children playing in the street together kicking a ball around, walking the streets with cuts and bruises where they have been messing about climbing Trees, or soaked and covered in mud because they have been down the local stream. Probably hardly ever now, and that is the stark reality of what the majority of children are missing out on in their youth.

 

[joescrivens]

Joe the point I'm trying to make is that letting toddlers use expensive devices that were never intended for them is overkill.

How was an ipad never intended for them? If ipads weren't supposed to be used by toddlers then there wouldn't be hundreds of applications built for that age range and schools wouldn't be investing in the technology.

You face creating an issue whereby the child has expectations that evolve around that device.
Now clearly from your personal situation your kids see limited use of the ipad, I bet if you were to take it away though it wouldn't make them a lesser person.

It wouldn't make them a lesser person no. But it wouldn't give them the extra educational benefits they get from it so I would say their learning and development wouldn't increase as much as it will with the ipad

Do you condone though physically spending hundreds of pounds on a device to keep your child happy?

Pesonally I didn't buy an ipad to keep my children happy so I don't know how to answer that one. I bought it to aid in their development and learning - i do condone spending hundreds of pounds on a device to do that.

If your kids are using the ipad to watch cbeebies and they want their own one because they dont like the show their sister is watching then No I don't condone that kind of behaviour

 

[joescrivens]

In saying that though how many times do we see children playing in the street together kicking a ball around, walking the streets with cuts and bruises where they have been messing about climbing Trees, or soaked and covered in mud because they have been down the local stream. Probably hardly ever now, and that is the stark reality of what the majority of children are missing out on in their youth.

I hear older people saying this all the time, but around me at least it's packed at the park we go to. Last night in the bath we were counting Daisy's bruises on her legs - 14 - she's very proud of them, and each one was obtained from climbing, jumping and generally being an active child.

This still goes on for the majority of people

 

[stupar]

Ok so your telling me that the target market for proper tablets and smart phones is toddlers?
Apps are generally 3rd party and not affiliated to the device developer.
If that's the case then duplo, fisher price etc must be wasting millions on research and development.

You also seem to still be suggesting that because your kids use tablets they are generally smarter.
Are you prepared to say then that you believe your kids to be smarter than my son just because he doesn't have a tablet?

 

[ZoneV]

This is an interesting article. "Is it Okay to Let Your Toddler Play with the iPad?".

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...110/is-it-okay-let-your-toddler-play-the-ipad

It recommends as little screen time as possible for kids aged 2 or under. Instead they recommend ping-pong and peek-a-boo.
"Why push babies to live in a digital desert when they can grow up in a much richer environment - the real world?"

And a slightly worrying video of a toddler trying to "swipe" a magazine and testing her "push" on her leg when it doesn't work. Her Mum's comments at the end are quite funny.

[YOUTUBE]aXV-yaFmQNk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[neil_g]

(it doesnt happen too often) but i agree with what joe is saying. an ipad can supplement learning and develop hand/eye etc.

while im not a parent judging at what my manager says about his young kids at school they get bombarded with technology anyway so why not start them early.

 

[joescrivens]

Ok so your telling me that the target market for proper tablets and smart phones is toddlers?
Apps are generally 3rd party and not affiliated to the device developer.
If that's the case then duplo, fisher price etc must be wasting millions on research and development.

I'm suggesting that the target market for iPads is vast and encompasses all age ranges. Hence why apple have a department for education and primary schools are investing in the technology as well as universities

Take a look at how iPads are helping young children with autism for example.

Why are duplo and fisher price wasting money?

You also seem to still be suggesting that because your kids use tablets they are generally smarter.
Are you prepared to say then that you believe your kids to be smarter than my son just because he doesn't have a tablet?

I'm saying that my kids are ahead academically than other children that I know and see on a regular basis. Since I have never met your son, how could I comment on how smart he is?

 

[u8myufo]

I'm suggesting that the target market for iPads is vast and encompasses all age ranges. Hence why apple have a department for education and primary schools are investing in the technology as well as universities

Take a look at how iPads are helping young children with autism for example.

Why are duplo and fisher price wasting money?



I'm saying that my kids are ahead academically than other children that I know and see on a regular basis. Since I have never met your son, how could I comment on how smart he is?

As in my other reply Joe, how are you defining smart? In other words enlighten us with a few examples of how your kids are smarter than the others you know?

 

[joescrivens]

Sure, essentially they are both ahead in their developmental milestones in both literacy and numeracy. the vocabulary and sentence structure they demonstrate is ahead of national milestones and of the children we spend time with on a regular basis.

At health checks for example a 2 year old is supposed to be able to string together a sentence of four words. But at 2 you could have a full conversation with him where he'd be putting together sentences of 15 words or more.

My daughter could count up to 100 before she was three being another example.

It hasn't been detrimental socially either - my son was out of nappies before he was 2 and at 2 and a half he's now dry at night also - boys usually take a lot longer than girls and it wouldn't be unusual for a boy of 6 to still be in pull ups.

In all academic areas they are ahead of their peers and I'm convinced it is partly to do with the educational development they receive using educational apps on our iPads. I will give a lot of credit also to my wife though who ensures they develop traditionally using play and social interaction and I am sure that has also played a large part in their language understanding.

 

[mxfun]

Are you talking from experience? i.e you have given an ipad to a child and watched the interaction and then formed the opinion that it was lazy - or are you just speculating?

I'll give you an example of how our children use ipads and tell me if you think this is lazy:

I've built several applications specific to my childrens needs and run them on the ipad with them. We then sit with our children whilst they interact, we talk with them, we ask them questions, they answer. We play the games together, we choose games built around collaboration so the two of them can learn to work as a team.

You seem to indicate that a parent and a child cannot learn together with an ipad in your post. This leads me to believe you have never actually done it. Parent and child learning together is EXACTLY what we do with our children when they use the ipads.

So tell me - do you still think I am a lazy parent?

Joe Joe Joe, you on your high and mighty seat again tut tut, I had an iPad and I now have a Samsung tab, so yes I've been there and done that. When my kids were/are growing up, they were outside either playing with their friends or out with us learning about what matters in life not stuck looking at an iPad and going.. Look Timmy look what app I've downloaded for you today your life will be so much better ,what you'd rather go out an play no no wait till you see my next app and so on and so on..

Anyways Joe suns shinning am in a good mood have a nice day ;-)

 

[joescrivens]

Joe Joe Joe, you on your high and mighty seat again tut tut, I had an iPad and I now have a Samsung tab, so yes I've been there and done that. When my kids were/are growing up, they were outside either playing with their friends or out with us learning about what matters in life not stuck looking at an iPad and going.. Look Timmy look what app I've downloaded for you today your life will be so much better ,what you'd rather go out an play no no wait till you see my next app and so on and so on..

The description of how you think a parent who uses an ipad to assist with the development of their education is rather bizare. Do you seriously think it's one or the other?

1. kids with no ipads - play outside or with friends
2. kids with ipads - stay inside never going out and the parents of said children tell them not to go out and instead look what app they just downloaded for them

thats what your post indicates - is this your true interpretation?

Anyways Joe suns shinning am in a good mood have a nice day ;-)

It's really cold here but I am still having a nice day

 

[mxfun]

Ok Joe.. You stick with what you think you know, and I'll carry on with what I know :-D

 

[joescrivens]

Sure thing. Appreciate the debate

 

[nilagin]

It hasn't been detrimental socially either - my son was out of nappies before he was 2 and at 2 and a half he's now dry at night also - boys usually take a lot longer than girls and it wouldn't be unusual for a boy of 6 to still be in pull ups.

Surely that's a typo. Most kids don't need them when they start reception at 4, never heard of a kid needing them at 6.

 

[joescrivens]

Surely that's a typo. Most kids don't need them when they start reception at 4, never heard of a kid needing them at 6.

If you read my post again you'll see I was talking about at night. Health visitors will only get concerned if the boy is over 7 and still wearing them. Up to 6 is not a concern and not unusual

 

[nilagin]

If you read my post again you'll see I was talking about at night. Health visitors will only get concerned if the boy is over 7 and still wearing them. Up to 6 is not a concern and not unusual

Night or day, sounds unusual to me. Both my sons were dry night and day long before they were 4. I was the same.
I dated a girl who was a live in nanny to a few familys and none of the boys in her care (around 6 in total) needed them at night, nor did her nephew who I knew from when he was 3 and we stayed at the girl's sisters most weekends. My three nephews are the same also.
I'd expect most boys to be dry by age 4, not 6.
Perhaps there has been a regression in the last few decades.:shrug:

 

[joescrivens]

Night or day, sounds unusual to me. Both my sons were dry night and day long before they were 4. I was the same.
I dated a girl who was a live in nanny to a few familys and none of the boys in her care (around 6 in total) needed them at night, nor did her nephew who I knew from when he was 3 and we stayed at the girl's sisters most weekends. My three nephews are the same also.
I'd expect most boys to be dry by age 4, not 6.
Perhaps there has been a regression in the last few decades.:shrug:

Most are dry by 4. But it's not unusual as health visitors will not get concerned until they are 7.

 

[Col]

All well and good, but apart from just reading a story book as a child, there were educational ones. Science, nature, how to make and do things. You would absorb that information and then go out into the real world and put it in to practise, you would touch things, smell things and even taste different things that you would have never thought of before. Some very good friends of mine run this place just down from where I live, I have spent many a happy hour down there myself. There were lots of people that were anti about it when it first opened, but I would be the first to admit it has done a lot of good for the kids. It brings them together to socialise, kids from different backgrounds and different schools, they would have no choice but to act as a team with the other lads whether they knew them or not. They even have groups from the special needs School in a couple of times a week, and again they are socialising with the all the other local kids. So yes technology and such like does have its advantages just like everything else that comes into our lives. In saying that though how many times do we see children playing in the street together kicking a ball around, walking the streets with cuts and bruises where they have been messing about climbing Trees, or soaked and covered in mud because they have been down the local stream. Probably hardly ever now, and that is the stark reality of what the majority of children are missing out on in their youth.

I do not often comment but the experience obtained as above is invaluable in life and dare I say that an iPad will never give you this. Falling out of a tree gives you an immediate understanding of gravity and its consequences (I still have the scars).

Each to their own way but i think that an ounce of practice is worth a ton of theory

Long may the debate continue!