Kodak hint at some new film products

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Andy Church, Kodak Alaris AMEA Regional Business Unit Manager:

“We have also got. Couple of new additions to our portfolio we’re looking at. I can’t tell you what they are because I don’t want to get people too excited in terms of announcing something and then not being able to deliver. But one of them would be something relaunched some that we had previously, and perhaps a new product that would also come to market.

“I’m looking forward to that, I couldn’t say any more on that at the moment, but it’s a very early heads-up really on some work we’re actually looking at currently.”

Let the speculation begin...
 
OK I'll bite. What the heck is HIE?
 
HIE is a specialised film which for the everyday user who has not used a true IR film before may be a job to handle. The net result would probably be a low sales return and a possible 2nd withdrawal.

ChrisR. HIE was a superb true infrared film on an acetate base. Nominally 400ISO and best used with an opaque IR filter. It HAD to be loaded into the camera in darkness because the base did not have an anti-halation layer, so the acetate base acts like a fibre optic and can fog a film very easily. It has grain that is VERY obvious, but that is one or it's attributes, together with the lack of anti halation layer, in the right light gave the images a sort of glowing halo effect unlike any other and virtually impossible to replicate, even in Photoshop.

Photrio is alive with speculation about Plus X which I have used (as well as HIE) Also Kodak Gold colour in 120 and 35mm Panatomic X. Then of course from the Americans, the almost mandatory suggestion that Kodachrome will be resurrected, but I think for that to happen, hell would have to freeze over first.

Then there is a new film suggested as well, but the evidence for this seems to be a bit on the thin side. Considering the time wait for Ektachrome to re-appear I don't think this will happen very soon. If it does, the best thing Kodak could do is to make the films genuinely affordable. (Have you seen the price of a bulk roll of TriX - it is cheaper to buy ready loaded cassettes.)

For me, the very slow and ultra sharp/fine grain Technical Pan would be nirvana.
 
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There was an after thought/suggestion in that it could be called Kodachrome 3 but designed to be processed in E6 Chemicals. It would then be almost like any other E6 film. Kodachrome was a totally unique film.
 
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the best thing Kodak could do is to make the films genuinely affordable

I'd take this over new film tbh. If the price of Tri-X were even close to HP5 I'd switch but it's silly. And I agree. Bulk prices are ridiculous too.

In seriousness, the question is - what will they produce that won't damage their existing sales? I'd love to see an affordable 800 or 400 colour film, but that would dent their Portra sales. They have ProImage 100 and E100 for the people who live in countries that have light (rather than perpetual gloom) and they have Gold and ColorPlus for the cheapskates like me.

I'll keep hoping for HIE. I have three rolls left in the fridge that I am saving for a project but would love to shoot it regularly.
 
It's interesting to speculate, but my immediate reaction is that whatever it is, it's unlikely to come in sheet film sizes, and therefore will be of no more interest nor use to me than it would be to a digital only photographer.

The only Kodak films whose passing I mourned were Kodachrome 25, Panatomic-X, Verichrome Pan, Technical Pan and Infrared Ektachrome. I can't imagine that any except the third are even remotely likely.
 
Looking at it another way. Increasing the sales of film of whatever type/format can only go one way. It will reach a peak then ultimately start to drop of - again. Why? Well has anyone noticed the relatively sudden drop off with good quality, affordable cameras. There will come a point where they are no longer available. Skilled camera engineers will be getting older and there will be less people to replace them and tricks used to get older and inoperable cameras up and running again. Spares will no longer be obtainable from cannibalised similar cameras. I bought an almost mint F100 body a couple of years ago for just over £100. I have just sold it, with no quibbling to a dealer for nearly £200. It is now on their website for £275!

Even Leica's are shooting up in price further than I could ever envisage them doing.

The availability of medium format cameras is possibly more dire than 35mm. Even the well known used camera dealers don't have a large selection to choose from. When did you last see a RB67 for sale. TLR prices are going though the ceiling as well.

Which manufacturer is going to put his/her head above the parapet and announce a new model at a reasonable price. Lenses are not such a problem, but we will eventually NEED new camera bodies. Even my F6 and F4 bodies will not last forever.
 
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In APS and Disc format.

Probably no chance with either. Kodak need quantity sales to make a profit and they will not get that with either. Camera phones are so good now, people will not abandon them for taking photographs on other devices where the results are not immediate. (or so good, for their needs)
 
Is that not effectively the film that's already in the Kodak disposables? As the disposable runs backwards from frame 36 to zero, I suppose you could fire one off in total darkness and reload it into a proper camera for shooting. :thinking:
HIE

Please God let it be HIE...
+1 for HIE!
The interesting point on this is that Konica only had 1 or 2 production runs of their IR film each year, so presumably Kodak might be able to do something similar without massive startup costs? :thinking:
 
Probably no chance with either. Kodak need quantity sales to make a profit and they will not get that with either. Camera phones are so good now, people will not abandon them for taking photographs on other devices where the results are not immediate. (or so good, for their needs)
I guess I'll just have to settle for 110 and 126 then. :)
 
Personally my hope would be for an amateur-level medium format C41 film. For some reason (and I know I'm in the minority) I don't quite get along with their current offering (Portra 160 and 400), and always prefer Fuji 400h in 120.

For 35mm however, I get very pleasant results with Kodak Gold 200. It would be nice to have some of that in 120.
 
I get very pleasant results with Kodak Gold 200. It would be nice to have some of that in 120.

I think that would be my 2nd wish-for.
 
It's interesting to speculate, but my immediate reaction is that whatever it is, it's unlikely to come in sheet film sizes, and therefore will be of no more interest nor use to me than it would be to a digital only photographer.

The only Kodak films whose passing I mourned were Kodachrome 25, Panatomic-X, Verichrome Pan, Technical Pan and Infrared Ektachrome. I can't imagine that any except the third are even remotely likely.

Whatever it is, whatever reincarnation, it will no doubt be a different version of the one you liked/used.
 
Looking at it another way. Increasing the sales of film of whatever type/format can only go one way. It will reach a peak then ultimately start to drop of - again. Why? Well has anyone noticed the relatively sudden drop off with good quality, affordable cameras. There will come a point where they are no longer available. Skilled camera engineers will be getting older and there will be less people to replace them and tricks used to get older and inoperable cameras up and running again. Spares will no longer be obtainable from cannibalised similar cameras. I bought an almost mint F100 body a couple of years ago for just over £100. I have just sold it, with no quibbling to a dealer for nearly £200. It is now on their website for £275!

Even Leica's are shooting up in price further than I could ever envisage them doing.

The availability of medium format cameras is possibly more dire than 35mm. Even the well known used camera dealers don't have a large selection to choose from. When did you last see a RB67 for sale. TLR prices are going though the ceiling as well.

Which manufacturer is going to put his/her head above the parapet and announce a new model at a reasonable price. Lenses are not such a problem, but we will eventually NEED new camera bodies. Even my F6 and F4 bodies will not last forever.
Maybe, maybe not. That sounds overly pessimistic to me. They predicted the demise of the mechanical watch when quartz came along, dead Swiss factories left their equipment out into the rain, big names went to the wall, yet now the industry has gone from strength to strength. Who knows what may yet happen.
 
I watched Silvergrain Classics' online chat 2 days ago on YouTube.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwdwdcOG4QU

Andrew Church of Kodak Alaris confirmed one reintroduction and one new product but wouldn't be drawn on formats or emulsion types. Others did mention that they would like to see Plus X reintroduced and a consumer 120 C41 film though.
 
I suspect it will be something to appeal to the hipster community and totally useless for proper photography.....Oh dear I appear to have crossed over the threshold into grumpy old man territory :)
 
I suspect it will be something to appeal to the hipster community and totally useless for proper photography.....Oh dear I appear to have crossed over the threshold into grumpy old man territory :)
Possibly just seasonal Andy, especially prevalent this year due to lack of joyous fraternisation. HNY! ;) :snaphappy:
 
my immediate reaction is that whatever it is, it's unlikely to come in sheet film sizes, and therefore will be of no more interest nor use to me than it would be to a digital only photographer.
We can 'boring' together then!:exit::LOL::LOL:
 
Looking at it another way. Increasing the sales of film of whatever type/format can only go one way. It will reach a peak then ultimately start to drop of - again. Why? Well has anyone noticed the relatively sudden drop off with good quality, affordable cameras. There will come a point where they are no longer available. Skilled camera engineers will be getting older and there will be less people to replace them and tricks used to get older and inoperable cameras up and running again. Spares will no longer be obtainable from cannibalised similar cameras. I bought an almost mint F100 body a couple of years ago for just over £100. I have just sold it, with no quibbling to a dealer for nearly £200. It is now on their website for £275!

Even Leica's are shooting up in price further than I could ever envisage them doing.

The availability of medium format cameras is possibly more dire than 35mm. Even the well known used camera dealers don't have a large selection to choose from. When did you last see a RB67 for sale. TLR prices are going though the ceiling as well.

Which manufacturer is going to put his/her head above the parapet and announce a new model at a reasonable price. Lenses are not such a problem, but we will eventually NEED new camera bodies. Even my F6 and F4 bodies will not last forever.


Flip! :wideyed: shall we all pack in now and sell up while the kit can still go on the market in "working condition"?;)

Your points are valid that is for sure although I feel it necessary to make a point about this comment:

l has anyone noticed the relatively sudden drop off with good quality, affordable cameras. There will come a point where they are no longer available

I'm assuming that you are talking predumantly about roll film cameras of which my knowledge is slowly dwindling having given up on all those formats hence i am sure ( going on when i did have roll film kit) that your views are more than valid especially as parts and techniciens are becoming increasingly rare.

There is however no drop off with good quality, affordable cameras that are readily available in large format from @stevelmx5 Steves Chroma outfits and Intrepids offerings which include 5x7 and 10x8.

Fair enough LF is for many togs not their thing but tbh while ever film exists, there will be some entrepeneur ready to accept the challenge of making decent roll film kit.

Don't get me wrong, most of us in here have been very fortunate to have the opportunity to use some wonderful gear both back when it was originally released for those who could afford, and in more recent times as that same gear became available for peanuts .

If we were to compare some modern offerings , many of us would say that the quality isn't there.

That can be said of many objects , not just cameras, however from a photography pov, it is predominantly the lens and the tog that get the result.....The rest is simply a box and mechanics regardless of wether its based on an accordion (LF) , a nuclear bunker ( ZENIT) or tupperware box(Holga).....Some fantastic photographs have been produced by all three styles.:)
 
There are roll film backs still being made allowing 120 film to be used in large format cameras including a motorised 6x17 back. Plus many different makers of large format cameras. Film photography might have appeared to start and end with 35mm, but it never did.
 
Maybe, maybe not. That sounds overly pessimistic to me. They predicted the demise of the mechanical watch when quartz came along, dead Swiss factories left their equipment out into the rain, big names went to the wall, yet now the industry has gone from strength to strength. Who knows what may yet happen.

Not pessimistic at all. A long term view of what is possible. The modern cameras say from the last 40 years, all depend upon electronics of some description and they are more likely to fail than mechanical ones. (Not including meters) Once electronics go, that's it, the good cameras from Nikon only the F6 has current spares. FE-No FE2-No The F3-No. F4-No. F5.possibly. F2 No, but as it is mechanical they are usually repairable - even the meter because the resistors are being remanufactured by an EX Nikon Engineer.

It is a fact of life, if one or more manufacturers were to start making new cameras, or reissue old designs or even make spares so the 'oldies' could be kept going. I feel fairly certain this would ensure the continued supply and use of film. When photography came along they predicted that 'painting was dead'! I think they posted notice of it's death a little prematurely, but a brush and oils are not in the same technical league as making a camera.
 
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Not pessimistic at all. A long term view of what is possible. The modern cameras say from the last 40 years, all depend upon electronics of some description and they are more likely to fail than mechanical ones. (Not including meters) Once electronics go, that's it the good cameras from Nikon only the F6 has current spares. The F3-No. F4-No. F5.possibly. F2 No but as it is mechanical they are usually repairable - even the meter because the resistors are being remanufactured by an EX Nikon Engineer.

Well, you could say that about all sorts of things. Valve amplifiers are still going strong. Some guy has started making high end Nixie tubes. I've just had my 1970s amplifier mended by a guy down the road. If it is wanted, someone will fill the void. If not.... yes, it will disappear. As a watchmaker, I have been through the trials and tribulations of finding spares for obsolete watches. I have also seen that enterprising individuals are starting to make spares for the most popular brands because vintage watches are popular and there is money to be made. The truth is a lot of indifferent electronic cameras probably will disappear because people who are interested in film cameras are probably not interested in full automation because it misses the philosophical point of using film. However the rules appear to be different for desirable classics and who knows what may come along.
 
We're in the strange situation where the large pool of still working cameras both sustains film photography and, in a sense, stifles it by making production of new cameras uneconomic. Without the economies of scale that came with a mass market for film cameras, I wonder how much a basic mechanical SLR like one of the ubiquitous Cosina models that were re-branded under various names would have to sell for to make a profit? One of the last of these, the Nikon FM10, sold for around £300 with a lens about 5 years ago. Perhaps today, with a smaller production run, it would be over £500, which would still buy you any number of better SLRs secondhand, from the FM2 to the F5. Of course, many potential faults with the F5 or other cameras dependent on electronics will effectively turn your camera into a doorstop. You'd probably do better with the mechanical FM2; even an 80 year old Leica can still be serviced, though the people with the skills to do this properly tend to be snowed under with work. As the supply of working gear contracts, with the mechanical models perhaps the last cameras standing, will selling a new camera of decent but affordable quality once again become a viable proposition, or will demand for film have dried up by then? Does the tooling for any decent 35mm camera short of a Leica still exist? Could someone in China revive an old classic, or even produce a new and affordable camera?
 
I have just watched a programme about Classic cars and the number of spares manufactured new for classic cars has to be seen to be believed. You can even buy a brand new body-shell for a 1970 Mini Cooper S. Yes it is expensive at around £6000 a pop, but do the rest of the work of restoration yourself, install as much of the original equipment as you can and the finished car will be valued at anything up to £70K (Note I didn't say 'worth').

While classic camera bodies don't rot away like a car, there must be a market for specialist repair parts for old cameras which would be a lot cheaper than making a brand new camera. If the likes of Nikon/Canon/Pentax/Olympus/ Sony (who must hold the Minolta design patents) were to allow failed components to be re-manufactured to the original specification that may be worth it.
If the Nikon specialist, Sover Wong who specialises in repairing/restoring the Nikon F2 (all models) can make a going concern of working on one Nikon model in particular, surely there must be an opening with other models fora similar service.
 
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At least one Minolta design (the X-300) was licensed to Seagull in China, who made versions under their own and other brands, long after the original was discontinued. Jessops used to sell it as the Centon DF-300. I wonder if that would be one of the easier cameras to revive, or if everything required to make it was just trashed when most people moved to digital?
 
H'mm in a way it's the would be filmies fault for being digi brainwashed and not realising it can be fun using film and now have to pay higher prices....a few years ago put a Canon AV-1 with kit lens 35-70mm lens for £12 on gumtree and didn't get one reply....look at the prices on the bay now. I should sell my Minolta X-300 as I never use it as I have X-700 and XD11 but for me it's the bother of actually selling many of my cameras that I don't use much and there could be many like me i.e. can't be bothered.
 
Is that not effectively the film that's already in the Kodak disposables? As the disposable runs backwards from frame 36 to zero, I suppose you could fire one off in total darkness and reload it into a proper camera for shooting. :thinking:


The interesting point on this is that Konica only had 1 or 2 production runs of their IR film each year, so presumably Kodak might be able to do something similar without massive startup costs? :thinking:


True but that's a hassle. Doesn't Kodak already produce 800 for Lomography, so maybe they want a piece of that market, and Gold 800 in 120, I'd say "yes please" :D
 
If it turns out to be the reintroduction of a discontinued 'classic' film then I hope they make a better job of it than they did with Ektachrome E100. To be honest, I was fairly underwhelmed with that offering after the initial novelty of shooting Kodak slide film once more wore off. I preferred the original Ektachrome from the 1980s, and find the new stuff has a slightly grey/flat (rather than cool/blue) look to it to my eyes.
 
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