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StephenM

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I currently get my dev stuff in a cube crate that goes under the stairs, and I'd prefer to keep it to roughly those dimensions.
I know nothing about this, apart from vaguely recognising the name, but it seems to meet your shape requirements.
 
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Woodsy

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@ChrisR, the two reel tank is sufficient for 4 (5 at a squeeze) sheets of 5x4 when curled up so that the 4 inch edges come to meet each other, or in other words, when you make an approximate cylinder 4 inches tall. Remember to make absolutely sure that the emulsion side is on the inside of the cylinder, otherwise the elastic band and the agitation with remove the emulsion where the band sits. Remember also to make sure the light baffle tube is inserted in the tank (the thing that the reels would normally slide onto), otherwise there is a real risk of fogging :)
 
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@ChrisR, the two reel tank is sufficient for 4 (5 at a squeeze) sheets of 5x4 when curled up so that the 4 inch edges come to meet each other, or in other words, when you make an approximate cylinder 4 inches tall. Remember to make absolutely sure that the emulsion side is on the inside of the cylinder, otherwise the elastic band and the agitation with remove the emulsion where the band sits. Remember also to make sure the light baffle tube is inserted in the tank (the thing that the reels would normally slide onto), otherwise there is a real risk of fogging :)
Thanks Jonathan. Just ordered a relatively good-priced 2-reel system 4. Peak have finished and posted my first order so I should know tomorrow whether I've totally screwed up. I've got a box of Fomapan 100 on order (and a 120 roll for comparison). Gradually getting there...

I assume something like this would do for a T-shirt dark cloth?
 
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Yep, any black t shirt that's A) big enough to fit you in it, and B) got a large enough neck to fit round your camera rear standard. Some prefer to stick their head through the neck of the t shirt and drap the waist end over the camera. Up to you really :)

Fully appreciating that you've just bought it, I should clarify that I use the paterson tank... but I've no doubt what you've bought will be fine.
 
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Yep, any black t shirt that's A) big enough to fit you in it, and B) got a large enough neck to fit round your camera rear standard. Some prefer to stick their head through the neck of the t shirt and drap the waist end over the camera. Up to you really :)

Fully appreciating that you've just bought it, I should clarify that I use the paterson tank... but I've no doubt what you've bought will be fine.
I've ordered a big black T-shirt, very slow to arrive for some reason, so today I just took a blue polo shirt and draped it over, seemed to work well enough at my current level of (in)competence.

The tank I got was indeed a Paterson tank. I've made a taco from the piece of dead film I've got, and it seems to fit, although needing around 800 ml of chems to cover it AFAICS. Bearing in mind that I've never devved anything with one of this style of tank before, don't have an agitator (and not sure one would work with tacos), could you give me an idea/outline of an agitation regime? I'm really not at all sure what to do! Not sure if it will be relevant, but I'll be using either Ilfosol 3 or HC 110.

ETA: I've watched a couple of videos now and feel ready to give it a go maybe tomorrow.
 
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Oh dear, a fairly disastrous first taco method dev session, though it still might produce some results!

I made the tacos OK, and got them into the tank, but then I couldn't get the lid on at all. Fiddled around, took the centre column out, put it back the other way up, meanwhile a couple of the tacos had come out. After a real struggle I got them back, then the funnel in and locked (as I thought), so took the tank out of the dark bag. The tank lid was on slightly crooked ( had no idea you could even do that... it was under the notch at one side only)! Oh dear, light must be leaking in... After a bit of a panic, back into the bag, tried to get it on straight, failed, took the funnel out and had a good feel around. I think one of the tacos had the centre post inside it! So out they came, got everything straightened out, centre post back, tacos back, funnel in and locked level this time. So out of the bag and the pre-soak water goes in.

I'd decided to use the last of my Ilfosol 3 but when I poured it out it was dark brown and smelt horrible, so discarded it. So I was going to have to go with the new HC 110. Luckily at 800 ml 1+31, the volume is measurable without a syringe (they sent me a 10 ml syringe instead of a 20, and it's going to have to go back!). Made up a batch of Stop as well. Went to make up the fixer and realised that 1+4 for 800 ml meant 160 ml of fixer, which it appeared I might not have. The bottle offered a 1+9 solution, so I mixed up that.

Then the devving went reasonably well, using the MDC app for the first time. I fixed it for twice the time suggested. Rinsed etc. Went upstairs to hang the negatives up in the shower. The good news is, there appear to be images. The second bit of good news is, no obvious sign of a light leak. The bad news is, there were only 3 tacos in the tank! The 4th is presumably still in the rolled up dark bag.

They're still drying. Should I just give up on the 4th taco, or try to get it into a dark envelope and dev it next time?
 
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Then the devving went reasonably well, using the MDC app for the first time. I fixed it for twice the time suggested. Rinsed etc. Went upstairs to hang the negatives up in the shower. The good news is, there appear to be images. The second bit of good news is, no obvious sign of a light leak. The bad news is, there were only 3 tacos in the tank! The 4th is presumably still in the rolled up dark bag.

They're still drying. Should I just give up on the 4th taco, or try to get it into a dark envelope and dev it next time?
I think your best bet is to sit back and have a coffee or something else to steady your nerves Chris! It sounds like you've had reasonable success witth the 3 in the tank, so I'd wait until they dry and examine them properly. If the 4th one is in the dark bag, it may be OK or there may have been light getting in through the armholes now, so it may well be knackered. If you think you can recover it to the film envelope for future developing, then go ahead with that. Can you recall what was on the 4th one, since that may sway you one way or another on what to do?
 
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I think your best bet is to sit back and have a coffee or something else to steady your nerves Chris! It sounds like you've had reasonable success witth the 3 in the tank, so I'd wait until they dry and examine them properly. If the 4th one is in the dark bag, it may be OK or there may have been light getting in through the armholes now, so it may well be knackered. If you think you can recover it to the film envelope for future developing, then go ahead with that. Can you recall what was on the 4th one, since that may sway you one way or another on what to do?
They were all 4 around Kenilworth Castle, which is about 400 yards from home. The missing one was inside, a location I can easily replicate, and on reflection the light was OK but not brilliant. I think maybe the best thing is to just abandon it. I had taken the tank out of the dark bag, and felt around for the spare scrunchies, then left it in the kitchen with no special precautions, so the chances are it is pretty well borked. Thank goodness it was relatively cheap Fomapan 100!
 
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Bizarrely, when I finally had a look in the dark bag, the taco wasn't there! Only one place for it, get the dev kit out from under the stairs, and there it was, free of the band and up against the wall of the tank! It has an image, although rather scratched (and a bit blue which I suspect means some par of the process, maybe washing, didn't happen properly). Gave it a quick rinse, and hanging up to dry now...
 
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Bizarrely, when I finally had a look in the dark bag, the taco wasn't there! Only one place for it, get the dev kit out from under the stairs, and there it was, free of the band and up against the wall of the tank! It has an image, although rather scratched (and a bit blue which I suspect means some par of the process, maybe washing, didn't happen properly). Gave it a quick rinse, and hanging up to dry now...
Every day's a schoolday Chris, especially with LF! ;)
 
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So, part of my problem was getting 4 tacos into the tank. I've been wondering if I should limit myself to 2 per session? But if I'd shot 4, I was thinking this would become twice as expensive on developer. But then something twigged in my mind...

A roll of 135 is, I think, around 60 square inches, and I can dev that with 200 ml of solution. Two sheets of 4x5 is 40 square inches, and I have 800 ml of solution, so plenty of dev capacity left, presumably. I already re-use the stop and fixer, but I've been using the developer as one-shot. I think I'd still do that if I only had 2 sheets to dev. But if I had 4 (or even 6, heaven forfend!), why shouldn't I re-use the developer for the second or even third batch? It seems like there might be so much spare capacity that I might not even need to extend the dev time for the second batch?

What does the F&C LF Massive suggest? :)
 
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I'm sure there will be someone along soon who knows better than me, but my first thought would be to invest in a developer that is meant to be re-used or replenished, such as ID-11. I think it is a case of adding on 10% or something to the time, so that might be worth investigating. Does the developer not come out green from Fomapan, since that might be a consideration for re-use? :thinking:
 

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HC-110 can be re used ...evidently!

I haven't tried to re use it YET but @sirch posted a link somewhere explaining how it can be done.

I intend giving it a go at some point but more from an environmental pov than a financial one

If it works and the results are on a par with using the developer freshly made ( as a one shot) then good, it's worthwhile doing, but I won't personally risk stuffing what could be a good photograph by trying to save literally coppers.
 
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So he's saying a roll of film requires 6 ml of concentrate, and a sheet of 4x5 is 1/4 of the area, so takes 1.5 ml? (I make it 1/3 rather than 1/4 but who's arguing?)... So if I develop 2 sheets in the tank, I use 3-4 ml of concentrate. Dilution B for 800 ml (to cover the tacos) requires 25 ml of concentrate, so after the first two sheets there's 21 ml or so left, so it's at 84% strength. So increase the second dev time by 25/21, taking it from 6 minutes to... 7 minutes 9 seconds. Call it 7 minutes.

Sounds reasonable, thanks!
 
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Does the developer not come out green from Fomapan, since that might be a consideration for re-use? :thinking:
I did a 5 minute pre-soak in 20 C water, which came out bright green. I'm not quite sure what colour the dev was when it came out... I was going to say it was yellow but I'm not quite sure now!
 

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So he's saying a roll of film requires 6 ml of concentrate, and a sheet of 4x5 is 1/4 of the area, so takes 1.5 ml? (I make it 1/3 rather than 1/4 but who's arguing?)... So if I develop 2 sheets in the tank, I use 3-4 ml of concentrate. Dilution B for 800 ml (to cover the tacos) requires 25 ml of concentrate, so after the first two sheets there's 21 ml or so left, so it's at 84% strength. So increase the second dev time by 25/21, taking it from 6 minutes to... 7 minutes 9 seconds. Call it 7 minutes.

Sounds reasonable, thanks!
How can you still have the mental ability to calculate all that at this time of night / morning?.....I'd have difficulty even after a good nigts kip :p
 

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I did a 5 minute pre-soak in 20 C water, which came out bright green. I'm not quite sure what colour the dev was when it came out... I was going to say it was yellow but I'm not quite sure now!
Actually I can't recall either tbh . Without doubt the pre wash is green.

I'll try and remember to take notice tomorrow as I hope to dev a couple of sheets of fomapan in HC110
 
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Actually I can't recall either tbh . Without doubt the pre wash is green.

I'll try and remember to take notice tomorrow as I hope to dev a couple of sheets of fomapan in HC110
I know the Stop and Fixer came put uncoloured...
 
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My understanding was that the pre-wash changes colour because it dissolves the anti-halation layer off the film, and not much more (short of swelling the gelatin layer and basic bonus effects such as washing away dust etc). Once this is removed - or more likely at least mostly removed, because of course we can't open it up to look and see if there is any left - to understand any subsequent colour change in the developer that isn't associated with the above, would require studying the chemistry specifically. This is of course not required though. Is there any documentation on what colour it should be - fully appreciating that this may change between films?

Granted it's only a single data point, but I've not yet noticed a colour change in Rodinal after development, given an agitated pre-wash before hand.
 
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My understanding was that the pre-wash changes colour because it dissolves the anti-halation layer off the film, and not much more (short of swelling the gelatin layer and basic bonus effects such as washing away dust etc). Once this is removed - or more likely at least mostly removed, because of course we can't open it up to look and see if there is any left - to understand any subsequent colour change in the developer that isn't associated with the above, would require studying the chemistry specifically. This is of course not required though. Is there any documentation on what colour it should be - fully appreciating that this may change between films?

Granted it's only a single data point, but I've not yet noticed a colour change in Rodinal after development, given an agitated pre-wash before hand.
Thanks Jonathan. That was mostly my understanding, except that I didn't agitate the pre-wash, and may do that next time (I hope to be less busy mixing other stuff!). The sheet that ended up on the side of the tank had a band of green where the AH layer presumably hasn't washed off. I don't know yet whether this will be an issue with scanning; if so, I guess i just wash and dry it again.
 

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Just found this place, looks like they do hand developing of 4 x 5 for £3.25, black and white, colour or slide. Might be worth a test run I think.

http://www.tli-processing.com/
 
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*keeps an interested eye out*
 

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Just found this place, looks like they do hand developing of 4 x 5 for £3.25, black and white, colour or slide. Might be worth a test run I think.

http://www.tli-processing.com/
Looks definitely worth a go. If we can encourage them to do We Transfer as well then it has the makings of a one stop shop for all our processing needs.
 

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I presume you'll be popping down to Shrewsbury soon to investigate them in person?
Already on my way....


Not really but I will have a look at some point soon. Possibly worth having a word with them to see if we can get a discount if we use them regularly, depending on the quality of their work of course.
 
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Already on my way....


Not really but I will have a look at some point soon. Possibly worth having a word with them to see if we can get a discount if we use them regularly, depending on the quality of their work of course.
I've got a roll of Portra 160 in my OM4 at the moment (13 years OOD so a baby really..). Once I've got that finished I'll give them a go.
 
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Looks definitely worth a go. If we can encourage them to do We Transfer as well then it has the makings of a one stop shop for all our processing needs.
"You will receive a download link via email as soon as your scans are ready." from their web site.

Also "4x5 Negatives are scanned with Epson V850 Pro Machines to produce scans approximately 17,000 x 22,000 pixels at 4000dpi resulting in roughly 1.11GB TIFF files." I'm not sure I'm quite ready for such huge files. but at £1 a frame it's worth a go. (Maybe they'd agree to do a smaller scan for crappy photos!)
 

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"You will receive a download link via email as soon as your scans are ready." from their web site.

Also "4x5 Negatives are scanned with Epson V850 Pro Machines to produce scans approximately 17,000 x 22,000 pixels at 4000dpi resulting in roughly 1.11GB TIFF files." I'm not sure I'm quite ready for such huge files. but at £1 a frame it's worth a go. (Maybe they'd agree to do a smaller scan for crappy photos!)
Thanks chris, I missed that.
 
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I've been having a tidy up of my kit and have discovered a used Beattie Intenscreen for a Sinar 4x5 that I had thought was actually for the Bronica SQ. Oops.:rolleyes: Anyhow, a quick look at their website shows a full list of the 4x5 screens they make, since they must be different sizes. This one seems to be 126mm x 100mm and is gridded. There are 2 gridded Sinar screens on the list, but I've no idea which one this is as the label on the (pretty old) packaging doesn't say. http://www.intenscreen.com/products_large-format.htm

Anyhow, I'm looking to see if that size fits any of the 5x4 cameras we have amongst the group here, and then I'll decide whether to advertise it for sale in the near future.

Thanks, Peter
 
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Asha

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I'm looking to see if that size fits any of the 5x4 cameras we have amongst the group here, and then I'll decide whether to advertise it for sale in the near future.
My WISTA 45 field camera ( The old metal version) could do with a new GG, in fact I've been dithering about wether to sell the outftt in its present state or tidy it up with a new GG and keep it.

So basically, I may be interested ( depending on what price you advertise it at) if I can confirm that what you have available will fit;)

EDIT: I've just measured and 126 x 100 will be good.
 
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Hi Asha

The only actual sizes I've found are on the Morco website and they have them as:

Model: Arca 4x5" (98x113mm)
Horseman 4x5" (103x122mm)

You can let me know once you've dug yours out and measured it. (y)

@Asha here are a couple of photos of the screen and the box.

20181202_122708_resized.jpg 20181202_122757_resized.jpg
 
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So, I had a go at taking a 4x5 still life indoors this afternoon. In the end, I gave up, sadly. I couldn't see the subject clearly enough to focus, even at f/5.6. This is a bit of a pain, as I was thinking it might be quite good to try more indoors shots (nearly wrote "studio", but we're really talking dining table here). Ended up taking the shot on the Pentax MX.

This may partly be because I'm using a coat as a dark cloth, which is pretty difficult to manage. I have my eye on a used dark cloth on fleabay, no bids so far at £25, black and red. Would that be a good buy? I was thinking of black and silver for coolness in summer, but the cheapest of those seem to be £40 new.

I took some test shots on my X10 at around e45mm focal length (roughly equivalent, I thought, to my 135mm lens), with black and white film preset, similar distance. I was very surprised when I looked at the image on the GG screen, how much more of the frame was taken up with the subject. The MX shots were at 70mm, and again the subject was apparently much smaller than on the GG. These were at a distance of around 600 mm. Is there an effect here I haven't understood?
 
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So, I had a go at taking a 4x5 still life indoors this afternoon. In the end, I gave up, sadly. I couldn't see the subject clearly enough to focus, even at f/5.6. This is a bit of a pain, as I was thinking it might be quite good to try more indoors shots (nearly wrote "studio", but we're really talking dining table here).
I struggle with focussing indoors as well as the image can be very dark, but if I use a torch with the beam focussed to a small bright dot, I can use it to light up the small area that I'm focussing on. Makes a world of difference, although looking at the screen and aiming the torch at the same time takes some getting used to when up is down and left is right!
 

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I gave up, sadly. I couldn't see the subject clearly enough to focus,
use a torch with the beam focussed to a small bright dot, I can use it to light up the small area that I'm focussing on. Makes a world of difference,
^^THIS^^ when the object is too dark to see clearly or a bright table lamp alongside the object, compose, focus, remove lamp, meter, shoot frame.

I took some test shots on my X10 at around e45mm focal length (roughly equivalent, I thought, to my 135mm lens), with black and white film preset, similar distance. I was very surprised when I looked at the image on the GG screen, how much more of the frame was taken up with the subject. The MX shots were at 70mm, and again the subject was apparently much smaller than on the GG. These were at a distance of around 600 mm. Is there an effect here I haven't understood?
I'm no specialist regarding this but I'm presulmng that you had the bellows extended longer than 135mm ( the lens focal length) which makes a difference.
Also be aware for next time that depending how extended the bellows are, some exposure compensation is required!
 
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So, I had a go at taking a 4x5 still life indoors this afternoon. In the end, I gave up, sadly. I couldn't see the subject clearly enough to focus, even at f/5.6. This is a bit of a pain, as I was thinking it might be quite good to try more indoors shots (nearly wrote "studio", but we're really talking dining table here). Ended up taking the shot on the Pentax MX.

This may partly be because I'm using a coat as a dark cloth, which is pretty difficult to manage. I have my eye on a used dark cloth on fleabay, no bids so far at £25, black and red. Would that be a good buy? I was thinking of black and silver for coolness in summer, but the cheapest of those seem to be £40 new.

I took some test shots on my X10 at around e45mm focal length (roughly equivalent, I thought, to my 135mm lens), with black and white film preset, similar distance. I was very surprised when I looked at the image on the GG screen, how much more of the frame was taken up with the subject. The MX shots were at 70mm, and again the subject was apparently much smaller than on the GG. These were at a distance of around 600 mm. Is there an effect here I haven't understood?
There is an old-ish site dedicated to such topics, and you can spend many a puzzling hour there. There is specifically a section on bellows extension as well, but maybe pop the kettle on before you settle down to read it? ;) https://www.largeformatphotography.info/
 
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